How to forward messages in which I am in the BCC field?

[Mike]

Hi,

Am setting up email routing with filters, and am finding that with
messages in which I am in the BCC field, they are not forwarded as the
rule directs.

Is there a way to have GMail apply the filter rules to messages sent
via BCC?

Thank you,
Mike

[Elihu]

I have filters like that with no problem. Maybe Your problem is that your filter is using the addressee as criteria, use something else (the subject or sender for example). 

[Ryan Morehart]

I would suspect that you've found a bug. What is the filter supposed to be matching on (IE, subject, sender, etc.)?

I rarely receive emails where I'm BCCed, so I hadn't noticed that before.

Ryan

On 1/14/07, Mike <thepu...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Mike]

Hi everyone,

Thank you for the responses.

I am filtering on the TO field, because I do not know who what the
subject will be, or who it will come from. Ideally, I would like all
BCC messages "addressed" to me to trigger the filter.

Can you please help?

Thank you,
Michael

[Elihu]

Your filter will not work if you are using "to" and your are being BCC'ed. That seems obvious, how will the filter "know" that you are the recipient?

[Zack (Doc)]

Is your intent to only forward messages where you're BCC'd, not on the
TO or CC lines?

If that's the case, you could filter on "-to:me". As long as your
"me" contact contains all the addresses you're likely to get mail at,
this covers everything without those addresses in the TO or CC lines.
There is no real way to tell if you're part of a mailing list or on a
BCC line, so this catches both. Alternately, if you're trying to
avoid the mailing lists you know about you could futher the search
with "-to:(me OR mailinglist1 OR mailinglist2)"

On 1/15/07, Mike <thepu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>

[Julie]

Hi Mike,

I just tried it, and it seems to work for me.  I did have to filter using the full email address used in the BCC field.  Not sure if that helps at all.

On 1/15/07, Mike <thepu...@gmail.com> wrote:

--
Met vriendelijke groeten,
Julie Fisher
www.coffee-etc.nl

[Julie]

It may seem "obvious", but Gmails filter treats all mail that comes into your email box as being TO: you.  It doesn't matter if you are the TO: in the email or the CC: or the BCC:

Thus if you filter using TO: and select an address that ONLY appears in the BCC field, then you filter the BCC emails.

The problem come if you want to seperate the emails that come to you as BCC from those that come to you as YOU (TO:)

Gmail does not see a difference I think.

[Nick Chirchirillo]

If you are receiving the email, it was obviously addressed to you is some form or fashion, meaning you are a recipient.

On 1/15/07, Elihu < eli...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Elihu]

I'm sorry but I don't understand. If your address is in the BCC field gmail won't see it, that's the whole point of BCC - hiding the address of the recipient. In realty, the filter is not working because gmail cannot see the recipients address.

[Elihu]

How do you see the email address in the BCC field of a message sent to you?

On 1/15/07, Julie <julie...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Julie]

If you are the BCC address, then the original email is sent TO you, although the addressee is someone else.

If the Email is sent directly TO you, then you do not see who it was also BCCd to.  That is the whole point of BCC.

However for the BCC recipient, the email can be filtered using the TO, even though their address is not in the TO field.

If you doubt me, set up a few extra addresses, or get a friends help.  You should soon see what I mean.

On 1/15/07, Elihu <eli...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Elihu]

You have not answered my question regarding how you see your email address in a message that you received as a BCC. recipient. I know what BCC is, but thanks for the explanation anyway.  As you can see on this page:

 

http://mail.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?answer=7190&topic=1579

 

 See near the bottom of the page:

 

 

: "*Search on bcc: cannot retrieve messages on which you were blind carbon copied"

[Julie]

OK, as it happens I just happen to have an example to hand. This email was BCCd to me.  If you click on Show Details, this is what you see.  (The XXXs replace the real names).

    from         Susan Fisher < x...@xxxxx.nl>        
    to             Fred Smith <xxx...@planet.nl>     
    bcc          Julie Jayne <xxx...@gmail.com >     
    date         Jan 16, 2007 3:54 PM     
    subject        Test*     
    mailed-by    gmail.com

As you can see, I was not the recipient, but was BCCd, so I get to see all the information. Fred on the other hand, will never see the BCC.

--

[Fuzzy Logic]

Unfortunately, your example falls apart.

Being Bcc:ed does not guarantee it will trip a Filter with you in the To: field.

To: field in filters ONLY applies to To: or Cc:.

"Show original" reveals (trimmed for efficiency and privacy)
Delivered-To: fuz....@gmail.com
Subject: second test (bcc)
From: Bob <X...@YYY.com>
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 10:28:41 -0500
Bcc:

This did NOT trip my filter, nor is there any indication to which
address it was sent other than the Delivered-To: field inserted by one
of Gmail's SMTP servers.

From the looks of it, the sending host is inserting a non-standard header.

What do you see in "Show original"?

Fuzzy

[Fuzzy Logic]

Short answer: there is no guaranteed way.

Fuzzy

On 1/15/07, Elihu <eli...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Fuzzy Logic]

Inline.

On 1/16/07, Julie <julie...@gmail.com> wrote:

> If you are the BCC address, then the original email is sent TO you, although
> the addressee is someone else.

As I explained before, this is not the case.

> If the Email is sent directly TO you, then you do not see who it was also
> BCCd to. That is the whole point of BCC.

Not the whole point, but a good bit of it. People on To: and Cc: can
see each other, but not those on Bcc:. People on Bcc: will also see
To: and Cc:, but still no-one on Bcc: (including themselves). They
know they are on Bcc: because that is the only way they could have
gotten the mail (other than a mail redirector).

> However for the BCC recipient, the email can be filtered using the TO, even
> though their address is not in the TO field.

Not true. I have a counter-example. While it might work for some
senders, it is certainly NOT a standard thing.

> If you doubt me, set up a few extra addresses, or get a friends help. You
> should soon see what I mean.

I did. It doesn't work as you describe in all cases.

Fuzzy

[Fuzzy Logic]

*** private system 1:
Delivered-To: fuz....@gmail.com
Return-Path: <Y...@XXX.net>
To: Y...@XXX.net
Subject: another system
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 10:39:19 -0500 (EST)
From: Y...@XXX.net

*** private system2:
Delivered-To: fuz....@gmail.com
Return-Path: <X...@XXX.XXX.net>
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 09:42:27 -0600 (CST)
From: X...@XXX.XXX.net
To: undisclosed-recipients: ;
Subject: advhaven

*** a different gmail account:
Delivered-To: fuz....@gmail.com
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 10:49:42 -0500
From: Bob <X...@gmail.com>
Subject: from another gmail account

*** yahoo:
Delivered-To: fuz....@gmail.com
Return-Path: <X...@yahoo.com>
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 07:52:21 -0800 (PST)
From: Fuzzy <X...@yahoo.com>
Subject: from a Yahoo account
To: X...@yahoo.com

*** optonline.net:
Delivered-To: fuz....@gmail.com
Return-Path: <X...@optonline.net>
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 15:53:23 +0000 (GMT)
From: X...@optonline.net
Subject: from optonline
Bcc:

*** hotmail.com:
Delivered-To: fuz....@gmail.com
Return-Path: <X...@hotmail.com>
X-Sender: X...@hotmail.com
From: "Fuzzy Logic" <X...@hotmail.com>
Bcc:
Subject: from a hotmail account
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 10:51:24 -0500
Return-Path: X...@hotmail.com

Again: note no Bcc: (except for a _blank_ one from optonline) and none
of these were filtered using the To: field.

Fuzzy

[Julie]

Fine, it doesn't work in all cases.  I only tried it with Gmail accounts.

However Mikes original problem, was I think that he needed to seperate those emails that came as BCC from those that came as TO.

Ans sorry Mike, but I don't think that you can do that.

[Fuzzy Logic]

It doesn't work for Gmail accounts either. I demonstrated that.

Yeah, there is no way to do what he wants as there is no way to select
on Bcc: at all.

Fuzzy

[Julie]

"Show original" reveals 

From: Ju...@xxxx.nl>
Sender: xx...@gmail.com
To: xx...@planet.nl

Subject: test
Bcc: "xxxx" <xx...@gmail.com>
Delivered-To: juli...@gmail.com

and indeed trips my Filter using TO:  so clearly it works some times.  

On 1/16/07, Fuzzy Logic <fuz...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Fuzzy Logic]

Ah, a non-standard header is inserted by xxxx.nl. That explains the
odd behaviour.

[Elihu]

Now I see what Julie did. The message was sent  using gmail with the alias ju...@xxx.nl  (Sender: xx...@gmail.com  - as reveled in the header)

So what we are seeing are the headers of the sender and of course as the sender the BCC field is revealed.  The BCC field is unseen by the recipient but can be seen by the sender.

Julie, can you confirm that this the case?

On 1/16/07, Fuzzy Logic <fuz...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Julie]

Elihu,

Yes you are correct.  The email was sent by xx...@gmail.com with the alias j ul...@xxx.nl
 but was BCCd to another gmail address, that then forwarded back to the original sender.

Sorry, I forgot how clever Gmail was, it clearly understands that I was in fact the original sender.

On 1/16/07, Elihu <eli...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Fuzzy Logic]

It's sneaky like that.

Fuzzy

[Elihu]

Thanks! that clears things up. 

[Fuzzy Logic]

:)

I meant that when they do Gmail-to-Gmail, they can often take
shortcuts which are not possible from outside the Gmail architecture.

Nice detective work, by the way. I missed that in her post of Show original...

Fuzzy