Re: Date sort in a Label based on original message, not latest. Fix?

[cbo...@dynamite.ca]

A more simple way to work around this would be to click on your label which you want to sort by date received, select all conversations in the label and re-drag that same label on all the conversations. It works and is simpler than creating a filter.

On Tuesday, April 9, 2013 3:35:06 AM UTC-4, Fede Dronkit wrote:

I have a solution, more or less. It works only for one label, ie. you'll have to do this for each label for which you want the messages sorted right.

-Create a filter. In the "with the text" field type label:yourlabel . If your label has spaces, replace them for dashes (-). Leave everything  else blank.
-Disregard the warnings.
-In the "actions" dialog, choose "archive" and "apply label": yourlabel.
-Select "apply this action to other x messages that match criteria"

How it works? Gmail sorts conversations by the date *of the last message that was labeled*. Gmail applies labels to individual messages, not to whole conversations. So this filter detects either incoming or outgoing messages that have your label (fortunately it seems to detect it if any message of the conversation has the label), and applies the label. So, the latest message (in or outbound) is the latest one to have been labeled, so its date is used for sorting.

There may be variants:

-you may not tick "archive" if you want the convo to pop on inbox if there's a new message.

-It may even work (not tested) if you make it detect *any* label and apply it an arbitrary dummy label (unfortunately you can detect *any* label but then you can't apply *that* label. The way to do this is the following: in "has the words" put "label:(/(.+)/) (Yeah, gmail accepts regex if enclosed in slashes). So every message will have an annoying dummy label, but they'll me sorted right.

El jueves, 19 de julio de 2012 16:50:31 UTC-3, George Whittam escribió:

When I visit a label I want to be sure the latest conversations float to the top of the list, but it doesn't work that way presently.

If I could at least get UNREAD messages to float to the top of the list it would help tremendously.  Any ways to make this happen?

[Ian Fidler]

George,

You could type the following into the gmail search bar:

is:unread

Or click the drop down that appears when you hover of the word Inbox
in the left hand navigation
and choose 'unread first'

Is that what you're after?

Ian

Ian Fidler
Sent from GMail
07711 947 206

On 19 July 2012 20:50, George Whittam <george...@gmail.com> wrote:
> When I visit a label I want to be sure the latest conversations float to the
> top of the list, but it doesn't work that way presently.
> If I could at least get UNREAD messages to float to the top of the list it
> would help tremendously. Any ways to make this happen?
>

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[Ciprian Dorin Craciun]

On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 4:18 PM, Jeremy Moritz <jeremy...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I feel like this is a bug. If you move all the messages in a label to the
> inbox it sorts the messages by the latest email in the conversation. When
> you view the messages in the label itself it does as George said and sorts
> it by the date of the first message in the conversation.


I don't think that GMail sorts email based on the first email in a
conversation.

It actually sorts it based on the last email in the conversation
labeled with that particular label.

For example:
* send from another account a message with a unique message;
* label it as something;
* (now it is read);
* now go to your other account and reply to your sent email;
* (you receive it, but don't read it yet);
* search in your email: `is:unread
subject:<<that-unique-subject>>` and you'll see your newly received
email;
* now search: `is:unread label:your-test-label` (you'll get nothing);

That is because when you apply an label, all the emails in a
thread get that label, but any new emails won't automatically get it
(except if you have some filter to apply it).

As such the issue I guess is more deep than it might be seen at first sight.

Ciprian.

P.S.: And this I consider as a serious bug, as the user interface
doesn't expose what happens internally... (Thus searching for labels
is not very reliable...)

[Ciprian Dorin Craciun]

On Tue, Apr 9, 2013 at 10:35 AM, Fede Dronkit <fede...@gmail.com> wrote:
> -Create a filter. In the "with the text" field type label:yourlabel . If
> your label has spaces, replace them for dashes (-). Leave everything else
> blank.
> -Disregard the warnings.
> -In the "actions" dialog, choose "archive" and "apply label": yourlabel.
> -Select "apply this action to other x messages that match criteria"

Indeed it works, but only the time you create the filter, because
it will not be automatically applied to other new emails part of those
threads. (You can however re-apply the filter by faking the edit of
the rule, and using "Apply this to other messages".)

> "has the words" put "label:(/(.+)/) (Yeah, gmail accepts regex if enclosed
> in slashes). So every message will have an annoying dummy label, but they'll
> me sorted right.

Are you sure that it supports regular expressions? (Because from
my tests it doesn't, it just ignores the "extra" punctuation
characters.)


However if you want to find all threads that have *any*
user-defined label you could use the documented syntax
`has:userlabels`. Or the converse `has:nouserlabels`.

Ciprian.

[Nathan Markey]

Thank you, this is a very helpful clarification to a terrible user experience. Labels should be applied to entire conversations, not individual messages.

On Friday, April 26, 2013 5:23:16 PM UTC-4, Mikołaj Olszański wrote:

Carly Newman,

thanks a lot. It did explain everything

On Friday, March 1, 2013 6:00:12 PM UTC+1, Carly Newman wrote:

This is a very annoyingly long conversation from 2010 about the issue:

 

http://productforums.google.com/forum/#!topic/gmail/GaHH-PXuAVs

 

Here’s one from 2009:

http://productforums.google.com/forum/#!topic/gmail/Y4B9yqphouo

 

I have just spent over an hour reading all of this only to find that there is STILL NO FIX. It is infuriating

 

Most accurate answer about the problem:

 

“It seems that the reason for this behaviour may be labels.  

 

If only some messages in a conversation have been assigned a label - and then other messages simply get tagged on as they arrive, without being given their own label, such conversations will list thus:

 

In the Inbox - in the order of the date of the last message in the conversation

In All Mail - in the order of the date of the last message in the conversation

In individual labels - in the order of the date of the most recent physically labelled message in the conversation.

 

Now, the most recent physically labelled message in a thread might be the very first one - or it could be one in the middle - or it could be the most recent one. It will depend on your labelling habits. 

 

Some people only bother labelling the first message in a thread - so that thread will always show up in label view listed by the date it was started - i.e. by the date of its only labelled message. Some people apply a label to their own replies - so that will govern the date under which the conversation is listed. 

 

Remember, when selecting a label you are only applying a filter - so the results show only those messages which have the chosen label. The fact that other unlabelled messages form part of the conversations is ignored by the filter.

 

Which accounts for the apparently erratic sorting behaviour you are seeing in label view. Note - this only applies in label view - in the Inbox and in All Mail, threads should be listed in the order of the date of the last message.

 

99% of my labels are applied to messages as they arrive by a group of filters, so virtually every message in every conversation in my account does have its own label - which is why I cannot reproduce what you are all seeing. “

 

It’s a huge UI flaw as you can’t actually tell if you have applied a label to a single message or an entire conversation.

 

A temporary fix is which is in no way satisfactory for such an on-going problem:

 

“1.  Create a label called "temporary"
2.  Select all conversations in the desired label.  
3.  Add the "temporary" label and remove the desired label.  Apply changes.
4.  Then reverse Steps 2 and 3 (select all, add the desired label, remove the temporary label).  Apply Changes.

This will reset the conversations, applying the desired label to that last message in each thread. “

[Anibal Jodorcovsky]

This issue of how sorting works based on dates, and how the date is displayed, based on the date the label was applied, is just wrong. I can't see any answer in this whole thread nor in any other conversation that I searched for where the current behaviour is the desired behaviour.

In an effort to explain why automatic filters and rules don't work let me explain how I use gmail and how this issue is affecting my workflow.

I manage email that comes from different places, managing over 220 clients. Each client has a code, and each code is a label. When I receive the emails, depending on the topic, the sender, and other criteria (not easily configured via a preset filter) I label the email thread with the appropriate client code.  The email thread could be simple, with just one email, but in most cases it leads to a conversation, which means several emails going back and forth on this thread/conversation. I don't reapply the label when I receive a new email in this thread, since the label was applied during reception of the first email.

The problem is when I'm searching for particular emails for a given client. My question is: "I would like to see all the emails from a given client code, sorted with the most recent email at the top". I always do this: "label:<client code>". This works, in that it gives me a list of all emails labelled with that client code. So, now, I'm seeing all emails from/to that client. The problem is that if I'm looking at the most recent emails exchanges with this client, the most recent will not necessarily be at the top. This is where the problem lies. I can't easily see what was the last email exchange I had with this client, since one email within an old conversation could be buried inside an older thread that just got a reply.

It's very counterintuitive and I think it goes against the "search" power that google has pioneered.

My 2 cents,

[Tom M]

I've been relying more and more on google mail and I do find this highly annoying as well.   It seems to me that the solution is that there should be a sub-option to a label to either update the reference date to the latest date in the thread...  I'm into gtd and there label date issue didn't seem to annoy me when I was looking at my @actions required..  Where it seems to be hosing me up is @waiting for response   That seems to be a big problem be a big problem for me.  I didn't notice this quirk till I started going through waiting for list, sending reminder emails and expecting it to show at the top of this list.    (Ideally, for this type of list it would be nice,  a reverse sort would be nice....  Apparently I can't do that.)

I know that original thought is a rare thing so I'm suspecting that sub-option to update the date to the latest date on the thread has probably been discussed.  Would anyone else find this useful?  (At the moment my work around after sending a reminder email is to delete the @waiting for response label  and then recreating it..

Tom

[Anibal Jodorcovsky]

It's interesting that you have to use such a workaround. If you use rightinbox.com you'll notice that for the reminders they also have an option to put the email at the top of the list. I assume that they use your same workaround when doing that - although it's automated. I still can't understand why the method that gmail is using for date sorting would be useful in any user story. Is there anybody who finds the current behaviour the right behaviour?

I don't particularly like adding more settings and configuration. It makes the application error prone, there's a lot more to test, and it's harder to support.  If there's a good reason for using the two "techniques" maybe then and only then you're stuck and have to use a configuration per user. However, in this case, it seems to me that the current behavious is just part of how gmail works, but I doubt it was actually designed like that. 

My 2 cents,

-Anibal

[Christopher Whalen]

Thank You Carly.. I know you wrote this last year, but you taking the time really saved me so much. Thanks.

[Anibal Jodorcovsky]

For whatever is worth, this issue continues to be a problem for me. The workaround provided, although it works, it's time consuming and prone to error. 

@Gmail, I cannot really understand why the software is doing what it's currently doing.  To me this is a bug, pure and simple. And as such, and given the fact that google as a whole seems to have as its mission to help organize vast amount of digital data, I cannot see why this issue continues to go unresolved. It'd be nice to have a statement from the gmail team to explain whether this issue is indeed considered a bug by them and whether there are plans to have it fixed.

-Anibal

 gmail user as well as google apps user - affected by this bug in both systems

[Vish Viswanathan]

I'm a heavy user of Labels as well and this is really killing me.  It doesn't sort on the date of the latest conversation of a message but on the latest message added to the label.  It's so annoying.  Sometimes, I respond to a message which is labelized and when I click on the label it's somewhere burried in the messages and not at the top.  ANyway solution yet or do we have to struggle #Gmail.

[Anibal Jodorcovsky]

Agreed that this is a better workaround. I keep using it now to be able to search for individual conversations. Google, I think fixing this the right way would go a long way though. I know there might be other bugs out there, but this one is quite bothersome and goes to the core of what Google is supposed to provide, i.e., a good search experience for all our data.

-Anibal

[Patrick Ferris]

Great fix! I found that most of my labels didn't need it... Just a few older threads had the problem to begin with and it took no time to solve it. Thanks

[Patrick Connolly]

Not sure if anyone mentioned this fix, but this tutorial should work to automatically relabel:
http://www.lifehacker.com.au/2011/12/fix-gmail-label-issues-with-an-app-script/

Also, search for "time-based google app trigger" for instructions on how to get it to run once per hour/day/week/whatever :)

[Ondra Klein]

Hello guys,

Please let me refresh this topic. I cannot believe it's 2017 and the same bug is present since at least 2012 (some say 2009). The workaround consisting of selecting all the threads within one label and then applying the label againg by dragging it from the left menu onto selected threads works just fine. However it's very hard for me to understand what user story would be the current behavior (sorting by the date of mail with last applied label) good for.

Any idea how to push this to Google support?

Cheers,

Ondra 

[Andy]

On Thu, Apr 27, 2017 at 9:41 AM, Ondra Klein <kl...@netcope.com> wrote:

Hello guys,

​..

. I cannot believe it's 2017 and the same bug is present since at least 2012 (some say 2009).

​...

​Then perhaps it is not a bug.  Perhaps how it behaves is the intended behavior.  It's just not the behavior you want to see.​

There are ways to suggest things to Google.  Unfortunately I am not sure what are the best ways to do that.

I'm not even sure which of the problems in this conversation you were referring to, since there were at least a couple.

From my Gmail account, I can click the Settings button and choose Send Feedback.  But I don't think all users have that choice.  Anyway I read there may be better ways (Gmail forums?) to have your complaints seen by Google personnel.

Regards,

Andy

[Guilherme Samel]

Thanks a lot: 

"  That is because when you apply an label, all the emails in a 
thread get that label, but any new emails won't automatically get it 
(except if you have some filter to apply it). "

It was a long time problem I was having with one particular set of emails conversation which I have to check and use quite a few times a day.. now solved. Thank you for that. 

[Bryan Fritchie]

11 years since the original post and Google still can't properly label a Thread.