Big scooter charger

[Don Libby]

A vast solar pv array the size of an Airbus jumbo-jet's wing-span generates about enough power to drive a motor scooter.  That's what I learned from the solar airplane experiment that flew in Switzerland this past week.  To those who think they can recharge their Prius plug-in hybrid from a rooftop solar pv array, I say...

 

Good luck,

-dl

[Eric Swanson]

Lets see, the new Chevy Volt has a 16 kWhr battery, which is
programmed to operate between 30% and 85% of full charge. Thus, the
charge cycle requires about 8.8 kWhr plus allowances for
inefficiencies. Given 5 hours of sunlight a day, an array with
something like 2 kW production could conceptually recharge the
batteries. Newer panels, such as those from Evergreen Solar, produce
about 200 W per panel in full sun, so 10 panels could provide the
needed amount of electricity. That number of panels, plus a few extra
for spare, could charge the Chevy Volt during the day.

The electricity from those panels might also be stored in a local
fixed battery bank, which could then be used to charge the Volt's
battery after dark. Add a few more panels and run your basic house
loads (other than the large loads of water heating, a cloths dryer or
A/C, that is). Add 2 or 3 solar thermal panels to heat your hot water
and passive thermal gain for winter heating and you are about there.

E. S.
----------------------------------------------------

[JeffRubinoff]

Speaking of scooters, I'm kind of sad that no one seems to be working
on a CHEAP 2 wheel electric vehicle, something equivalent to a scooter
-> 150cc motorbike. Go to SE Asia, there are millions of the bloody
things. GHG issues aside, they are noisy and turn the air of cities
like Saigon into toxic muck. But you can buy a Honda 150cc for about
$2 grand down there, which is within the range of most people.
Is the problem with the weight/size/cost of battery?

[Don Libby]

>----- Original Message -----
>From: "JeffRubinoff" <jeff.r...@gmail.com>
>Newsgroups: gmane.science.general.global-change
>To: "globalchange" <global...@googlegroups.com>
>Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2010 6:27 AM
>Subject: [Global Change: 3804] Re: Big scooter charger
>

>Speaking of scooters, I'm kind of sad that no one seems to be working
>on a CHEAP 2 wheel electric vehicle, something equivalent to a scooter

> 150cc motorbike.

Jeff, try this:
http://www.zapworld.com/electric-vehicles/electric-scooters/zapino-electric-scooter

>On Jul 28, 5:07 am, Eric Swanson <e_swan...@skybest.com> wrote:
>> Lets see, the new Chevy Volt has a 16 kWhr battery, which is
>> programmed to operate between 30% and 85% of full charge. Thus, the
>> charge cycle requires about 8.8 kWhr plus allowances for
>> inefficiencies. Given 5 hours of sunlight a day, an array with
>> something like 2 kW production could conceptually recharge the
>> batteries. Newer panels, such as those from Evergreen Solar, produce
>> about 200 W per panel in full sun, so 10 panels could provide the
>> needed amount of electricity. That number of panels, plus a few extra
>> for spare, could charge the Chevy Volt during the day.

Eric, thank you, and good luck.
-dl

[Tom Adams]

According to the current Scientific American, the EPA projects that
electric
powered cars will cause more CO2 emissions than gasoline powered cars
in most US locations, depending on the projected fuel mix used to
generate the power.

As we get more electric cars and plug-in hybrids, peak electric power
demand will not increase, off-peak demand will increase. Utilities
will do the cheapest thing to meet this demand, which is to run their
existing non-base-load plants day and night. The non-base-load plants
tend to produce more CO2 per unit power than gasoline, depending on
the location-dependent fuel mix.

> > -dl- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[hgerh...@yahoo.co.uk]

> According to the current Scientific American, the EPA projects that
> electric
> powered cars will cause more CO2 emissions than gasoline powered cars
> in most US locations, depending on the projected fuel mix used to
> generate the power.

I think there is often too little emphasis on the technology
development benefits when discussing subsidies and other policy
measures.

The prime reason why electric cars or photovoltaics are supported
today is to provide a market for these products so that technology
development occurs. It's not the immediate emission reduction.

Politically possible and in my opinion sensible CO2 prices will induce
very little private technology development activity in these areas,
because entrepreneurs now investing will not catch much of the
benefit. The knowledge they generate just diffuses away to
competitors, or is only useful in conjunction with knowledge created
by competitors, or would only be useful in 30 years by which time any
patents have run out, or may not even be patentable.

So, if the US governemnt were to spend a 100 billion on PV or electric
cars, the million cars on the road by 2020 might very well give a cost
of a 1000 Dollars per tonne CO2 while marginal fuel switching from
coal to natural gas would come in at 10 Dollars per tonne CO2. Or
maybe, as you say, depending on the fuel mix, they'd save nothing at
all in 2020.

But these million cars may bring technology development benefits that
in 2040 or 2050 enable huge savings of a hundred billions tonnes of
CO2, so that the real cost per tonne of CO2 taking a long view is more
like 1 Dollar per metric tonne of CO2 or even lower.

Or indeed the cost per tonne might be negative, because in addition to
the emissions reductions benefits in 2040 and beyond there might be
financial benefits of the technology development.

These are mights, but buying options or insurance has value even when
the chance of getting something out of it is not 100%.

[Alastair]

On Jul 28, 11:27 am, JeffRubinoff <jeff.rubin...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Speaking of scooters, I'm kind of sad that no one seems to be working
> on a CHEAP 2 wheel electric vehicle, something equivalent to a scooter
> -> 150cc motorbike. Go to SE Asia, there are millions of the bloody
> things. GHG issues aside, they are noisy and turn the air of cities
> like Saigon into toxic muck. But you can buy a Honda 150cc for about
> $2 grand down there, which is within the range of most people.
> Is the problem with the weight/size/cost of battery?
>

Is this the sort of thing you are thinking of?
http://www.iwantanelectricbike.co.uk/wisper.asp

I found that shop last weekend when visiting my local garden centre in
Wimborne, Dorset, England!

Cheers, Alastair.