Come across a OptiBoard forum thread about online optical stores

[Patrick]

OptiBoard is a forum where most of the ECPs gather and discuss. I come
across this forum and found discussions about the online optical
stores. Most of them still strong oppose this new form of business.
They mention Coastal and Zenni. Here are the links:

http://www.optiboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37086

http://www.optiboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37066

[Chuck Knight]

Unbelievable...they're not even willing to discuss their business
model in public, for fear that their consumers will see the post, and
judge them. Below, is the quote from their forum.
________________________________________________

If you are so concerned about it, how about you join the Pro's forum
where you will get a bit more participation?

Many simply don't respond cause they dont' want to have this
conversation in public. Where any CONSUMER can read and think either
we are high on the hog, or down in the basement...
________________________________________________

I have my own business and am very open about my desire and intent to
make a profit. None of my customers have ever had a problem with
that...it's *expected.* My customers realize that I'm not running a
charity, and have no problem paying for my services.

The opticians are the same...they're professionals who provide a
service. Like it or not, their profession is a business...and they
need to be profitable. And, to stay profitable, they're going to have
to learn to compete.

Rude awakening, for them.

-- Chuck Knight

[O-H]

It's not hard to guess how they'd react to this getting more
prominence (the concept isn't new but it's been in the news more
recently)

http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/09/16/liquid.glasses.self.refraction/index.html

Quote
-
In the developing world millions of people struggle to operate
machinery, read from a blackboard, or just see the world around them,
because they don't have access to the eye glasses they need.

But a pair of glasses developed by Joshua Silver, a physics professor
at the University of Oxford, offers an affordable solution.

The glasses can be adjusted to the right strength by the wearer,
without the need for them to visit an optometrist.
-

There's an idea ?

:)

I personally intensely dislike the B&M aspect of the whole thing, even
the eye exams but then I hate being regarded as a potential victim
whose pocket is to be picked as soon as I walk in the door. I'm
strange that way. I also think all the hoohaa about 'being fitted
properly' and 'needing adjustments' and measuring 'exact distances' to
monitors etc is ridiculous. I move my glasses around all the time,
view screens, books and paper at all kinds of distances (as in normal
life!) and think the B&M people are out to scare and intimidate with
spurious lines about 'precision' and 'proper fit'. I went through
this a few weeks ago with an OD I asked for a prescription for
computer glasses at around 30-36" very approximately (I use multiple
monitors at all kinds of distances and of course cannot tell a client
where to put his screen so my glasses will work (LOL at the
prospect)).. She went on and on about how she could only do it for
28" and how she didn't want to do it (!) and it wouldn't work and she
would hate for me to waste my money and how I should see a specialist
and get a 'proper' prescription (what is an OD for exactly!?). I
eventually persuaded her to do it for 28" and of course the glasses
made to that prescription are fine for me to about 8" to 6 foot. :).
I couldn't get out of her office fast enough after that experience and
I don't ever want to go back.

And the idea of having 10 pairs of cheaper glasses for the price of
one, why the heck not. Plastic IS cheap and by now many of us have
seen the youtube videos of how lenses are actually produced. Most
adults know what is a reasonable markup for services, overheads etc
and the B&M diehards are going to have to deal with daylight being
shone on their business model.

I'm waiting for a pair of glasses from Coastal right now. I hope
somebody from optiboard reads this :) :)

[Patrick]

This thread launched by Firmoo has been the hottest one in recent day,
now has around 70 replies and 1300 views. Check it and see how
frustrating these well-trained opticians feel in the new wave of
online business.

http://www.optiboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37086

On Sep 18, 10:21 pm, O-H <hab...@gmail.com> wrote:
> It's not hard to guess how they'd react to this getting more
> prominence (the concept isn't new but it's been in the news more
> recently)
>

> http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/09/16/liquid.glasses.self.refraction/i...

> >http://www.optiboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37066- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[msrosn]

If they were not in bed with the vision insurance companies and not so
greedy, people would have no reason to order online. I have been
doing a lot of research on this for a while. It is terrible when even
using your insurance, the frames and lenses still cost $350+....the
frames cost little to manufacture and the prices of the lenses are a
real joke. People just want well made, fashionable glasses that are
reasonably priced. Even designer frames should not cost so much! I
went into a Lenscrafters recently. Gave them my insurance
information, I wanted a pair of D & G frames, Physio 360, Crizal,
Transitions...my bill with insurance would have been almost $600.
They stated that the insurance company would be paying $600 and the
other almost $600 would be my portion! So, glasses cost as much as a
house payment????? Yes, the opticians seem to be in an uproar, but
they can blame themselves and the insurance companies they accept.
The insurance company EyeMed is a real joke. They even advertise to
the stores like Lenscrafters on how much money they and the companies
can make by accepting their insurance and the bulk of that money made
comes from the consumer. Plus, EyeMed has considerable interest in
the largest maker of frames such as D & G, Prada, Oakley, etc. That
company is Luxottica and they also have bought up the largest labs in
China! So, what that means to you is, if you use this insurance and
go to places like Lenscrafters, Sears, JC Penney, Pearle Vision, or
others that are the "preferred" for your vision care insurance
company, you can rest assure you can end up paying out the nose,
especially if you wear multifocal lenses. Single vision are not too
bad, but not great either. You will do better not even using the
insurance and paying out of pocket. Only use the insurance for exams
and measurements, then buy online!!!!

> > >http://www.optiboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37066-Hide quoted text -

[Chalo]

Patrick wrote:
>
> This thread launched by Firmoo has been the hottest one in recent day,
> now has around 70 replies and 1300 views. Check it and see how
> frustrating these well-trained opticians feel in the new wave of
> online business.
>
> http://www.optiboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37086

Boy, those folks sure cling tenaciously to their illusions about the
superiority of their products.

I might have believed them, until I tried online prescription
glasses. Now I know there is nothing a local optical does better _in
practice_ than the online/Hong Kong opticals.

Both local and online opticals can get your glasses just right, and
both can screw up. The buyer has more control when purchasing online,
but the buyer has more recourse when purchasing locally. What is it
about one of these options that suggests it should merit ten times the
price of the other? Nothing, I think.

Chalo

[Ira Mitchell]

EyeMed isn't an insurance company. They're pretty much just a
marketing company for those stores you list -- all owned by Luxottica.
If you're being "provided" with EyeMed, your company is doing you a
huge disservice.

Read more here: http://suxottica.com

- Ira

> > > >http://www.optiboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37066-Hidequoted text -

[powrwrap]

I love how they attempt to make getting eyeglasses to 'fit' sound like
calibrating a supercollider.

[Rosalyn Newman]

I would really like to get the word out about these companies.  The so called insurance thru EyeMed is what we have thru AT&T.  We used to have VSP, which was much, much better.  I would like other members of the union to know what to expect from them.  I did start a blog explaining my experience with Lenscrafters but haven't gotten much activity with it.  I really wish that more newspapers, online ads, television and radio would advertise buying glasses online.  Something needs to be done to show our local vision centers that unless their prices go down and their level of service goes up, people will go elsewhere.  I look at it this way, my money is green just like everyone else's so it will spend anywhere I choose and like everyone else, I watching very closely.  I just hope that when things come out, they don't do things like when Canada Drug.com was discovered! Rosalyn --- On Sun, 9/20/09, Ira Mitchell <ropa...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Chuck Knight]

I just look at it this way.

"We have to send these out to the lab" is just code for "we're going to mail order them from our wholesaler."  If glasses can be mail ordered and shipped either to the doctor, or to the customer, then what's the difference? 

Usually the OD checks the prescription for accuracy (mistakes do happen) and the higher-end lab offers a few more options like VOC positioning, which would be hard to specify without trying on the frames.  That's one of those vertical measurements they so love to take at the dispensary.

These are all valuable services, and useful as well, especially for those with extreme prescriptions.  Precision, fit, etc do all matter, and there is a direct correlation between their importance, and the strength of the prescription.

But, as someone else in this thread said, it's not like we're aligning a supercollider.

     -- Chuck Knight

> > > - Show quoted text -

text -

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[Chuck Knight]

________________________________

The online model is built upon theft of services, get the optician or optometrist to take the PD, try the frames on at the store, or better yet virtual frames a picture which doesn't take into consideration feel size or fit of frames, seg heights are guesstimated using ficticious formuals that are portrayed as more accurate then actually measureing. These are all claims that have no solid ground. The business is built upon a rocky foundation. They will continue to prosper in the current economic climate just as McDonalds does when times get rough, but lets not compare a bigmac at McDonalds to a steak at Ruths Chris.
________________________________

Ooh...their discussion is heating up.  Now we, who shop online, are THIEVES!  Theft of services.

I recognize that these optical stores are businesses, and I ALWAYS offer to compensate them for their time.  You see, I *like* my glasses to be professionally adjusted...I *like* that little bit of service.  So far, only 1 place has quoted me a price, and that was only $5, which I thought was fair.  The others refused to charge me, or even to take a tip when offered.

I find this whole attitude repellent.  I can unequivocally state that I am not a thief...and that moniker is offensive to me.

Heck, I'm the one who, when I first discovered online glasses, wrote an entire post (that made it onto the blog) questioning whether it was ethical to even go into a store and try on frames!

These guys really need to get a clue...and apparently a spell checker.  Makes me feel good to know that the guy correcting my eyesight can't even spell the words fictitious, formulas, and measuring.

     -- Chuck Knight

[Jankdc]

Patrick, You wouldn't be the one who wrote this article with a link to
Firmoo's web site?

http://ezinearticles.com/?What-Items-Should-Be-Examined-During-an-Eye-Exam-For-a-Kid?&id=2893705

On Sep 19, 4:31 pm, Patrick <lwjupsta...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> This thread launched byFirmoohas been the hottest one in recent day,

> > >http://www.optiboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37066-Hide quoted text -

[O-H]

On Sep 21, 10:04 am, Chuck Knight <chuckkni...@gmail.com> wrote:
>..

> Makes me feel good to know that the guy correcting my eyesight can't even
> spell the words fictitious, formulas, and measuring.

LOL! That's how you know they're rattled !

So I thought I'd follow up on my Coastal Contacts experience. The
glasses arrived Saturday, 10 days from order.

I slipped them out of the nice little fabric bag, admired them (hmm,
nice) put them on and HORRORS!!!!! HORRORS!!!!!!!!!

I CAN SEE !

PERFECTLY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What no adjustments? Well, actually, none needed.

But if there had been a little tilting or wiggling, I somehow
arrogantly feel up to handling this delicate medical equipment
comprising a couple of lenses and a few bits of wire and plastic so
they would feel better. I've done it in the past, often with glasses
after picking them up from a B&M when, after a couple of hours,
somehow sometimes they niggle, you know. Amazingly I haven't wrecked
my eyesight yet in over 40 yrs of wearing glasses using these
unqualified, unregistered, unlicensed methods as just about every eye
exam I hear 'well your prescription hasn't actually changed much' (yes
I do know and acknowledge that there ARE other reasons for getting
eyes checked regularly but for selecting lenses I often wish I could
just do it myself without the yes-no, 1-2 dance that often sends me
into secret fury as the OD doesn't want to try what I want to try, no
I'm not the customer from heck, I'm far too quiet for my own good most
times..).

And how do the frames look and feel. Quite nice actually, but LOOK if
I hadn't liked them right here:
https://www.coastalcontacts.com/glasses
'Don't Like Them? Return them'

And in the details for each frame 'No Risk, 30 Day Returns - We know
you’ll love your new glasses – but if you’re not satisfied for any
reason, we’ll refund your money or exchange them for a new pair, no
questions asked!' Now I haven't tried Coastal's returns in practice
but given what I pay for each online pair (Coastal or otherwise) and
how Coastal have responded to me pleasantly and comprehensively
whenever I've emailed them, I'm kind of happy to try them especially
knowing I'm not risking big bucks.

Isn't this empowering somehow? Not only that, with online ordering I
love the ability to take time to decide without the store closing,
being the target of glares and 'can I help you' or drivng from one
store to another and back again if I can't make up my mind (it
happens, worst of all try it with two picky princesses aka teenage
girls, argg). But perhaps nicest of all - once ordered I can go back
and look at the chosen frames while waiting. No longer is there that
nagging feeling 'I can't remember which I picked', 'what if I don't
like them' 'what if I didnt pick the right color', what if, what if,
what if. Nor, worst of all, going to pick them up, only to be hit
with the realization 'I didn't order those! They're not mine!! They
are? You're sure? Did I? Did I???' Yes I know that with the
existence of the internet I could always find a similar frame while
waiting, but that's not quite the same. The whole continuity of the
online experience, after getting used to it, is a pleasing thing.
Choose, order, wait, wonder, anticipate, receive, leading to 'yes!!!'
or to 'oh well, rinse, repeat until happy' (for me accepting that I
eatishipping costs for returns or for some online stores only get
partial credit or refund are minor headaches compared with the upside
and sheer convenience of the whole deal).

Sorry optiboards.

[SQ]

I go to a B&M store. Their selection of frames is absolutely
riduculous. Maybe 2 ft of shelf space of style that I might even
consider. I had to find the frames that I liked online and take it
to them and they ordered it for me. I could have easily done it myself
without their help. What value added benefit are they providing, I am
not sure.

Screwed up my eye exam and consequently the lenses they made, had to
go back to them to redo the whole thing.

Got the lenses, 6 months later the AR coating came off. They did
replace it to their credit.

But it's something they should do, considering I paid almost 500
tokens *after* the insurance. Just $200 for the titanium frames
alone - you know they are all made in asia now and their price cannot
be justified, even high-end ones are not that good. I don't see how
any frames from asia can cost $200. I found the same frames online
for something like $79.

Got a prescription for contacts and the optometrist was almost
freaking out, told me I had to get them here and not "off the
internet". I didn't even mention anything.
I wonder why people go online, could it be that it costs between
500-1000 bucks to get eyeglasses? (eye exam, nice frames, lenses with
high index and AR coating, etc.)
And in this economy?

They need to reduce the expenses or they will lose the business. The
optiboard does not allow non-professionals to register, I guess our
opinions don't matter, and we are not supposed to know the trade
secrets.

[Chuck Knight]

Sure you can register...you're just not allowed to post or participate
in any but (I believe) 2 subforums that have nothing to do with
optics.

They do have a knowledge quiz during registration, but anyone with
access to Google can easily pass it.

Doesn't it make you feel special? It's obvious they have a special
place in mind, just for their customers. A special level of Hell...so
far as I can tell.

-- Chuck Knight