chording method OR non-chording method ?

[peekay]

there is a big advantage of using the chording method

user is relaxed and can press the key-combination in a
carefree manner

so, pressing D then K OR pressing K then D have
the same result

but i am thinking differently .. and need to know :

can programming (VB or html) give one character when
keeping D pressed, K is hit and anothr character when
keeping K pressed, D is hit

chording is a combination phenomena (in maths)
the permutation phenomena (in maths) would non-chording

permutations give more options with lesser numbers

[seppo]

in gkosw.exe you have all permutations implemented. this is called
chordons in GKOS. I have used chordons to produce hundreds of complete
words the way you just described.

for example, you press first ! then add Key E and get Combo for J .
When you release the keys, you will get the word 'just', not 'j'.

another example: you press first ! then release Key C and you'll get
the word 'shouldn't' when you release all keys.

seppo

[Robb Bates]

I haven't read all of this discussion in great detail, but my opinion
is that we should try to fit the indian language into the existing
hardware, not come up with a new or modified hardware to fit the
language. It will obviously be difficult given the number of indian
characters. The whole point of GKOS is to minimize the number of
chord combinations. The 3+3 makes it easy to remember and easy to
physically manipulate. Trying to remember which combination of 10
fingers is way too difficult. I tried several different chorded
keyboards before I ran across GKOS. When I did, I fell in love with
its simplicity. That's what we need to stick with.

Here's my two cents: Keep the standard GKOS control key combinations
(PgUp, Shift, Arrow Left, etc), and use chordons to implement the
various indian characters.

For example, the ka kha ga gha nga set of characters could be grouped
with the [D+E] keys
for ka press [D+E]
for kha press and hold [D+E] then press [A]
for ga press and hold [D+E] then press [B]
for gha press and hold [D+E] then press [C]
for nga press and hold [D+E] then press [F]

That's why chordons were invented; to add more combinations of
characters without adding more keys. I would think grouping them like
this would make it easy to remember.

Robb

[peekay]

> ..... we should try to fit the indian language into the existing

> hardware, not come up with a new or modified hardware to fit the
> language.  

if seppo can come up with a modified hardware .. the 6back ..
to fit the (english) language, i guess coming up with a modified
hardware to fit the (hindi) language may be a thought worth
thinking/discussing/trying .. maybe it gets discarded .. maybe not

> It will obviously be difficult given the number of indian
> characters.  

that is right .. and also note this .. the english character set
is not based on any 'logic' of letter groups, vowel groups, etc

the indian language script(s) are ALL based on the original
pali/brahmi/sanskrit script(s) .. and they ALL have the same
exact logical structure

they are very different from the english character set and so
need a different approach, logic and device

> The whole point of GKOS is to minimize the number of
> chord combinations.  The 3+3 makes it easy to remember and easy to
> physically manipulate.  

for english letters, remembering combinations for particular
letters, punctuation marks, mouseActions, etc this is a very
good solution

for indian characters, remembering the logic of combinations
makes remembering the combinations much easier .. and
makes the usage also much simpler

we don't need to learn charts, tables .. we need to understand
the logic of the key-combos and it becomes easy.

> Trying to remember which combination of 10
> fingers is way too difficult.  I tried several different chorded
> keyboards before I ran across GKOS.  When I did, I fell in love with
> its simplicity.  

i too like the GKOS concept, h/w for the same reason ..
for hi-tech power users, GKOS is quite simple to
understand and implement for english language

it is next to morse code which uses even lesser
combinations of dashes/dots .. on/off 'positions' ..
than the 6 on or off positons of the buttons of GKOS

and then there is the concept of toggle btwn caps,
directions, punctuations, numbers, short-forms
for words .. which do not exist in morse code

it is a very good concept and device

> That's what we need to stick with.

i too am trying exactly that .. the same h/w .. but with some minor
modifications in terms of some additional dummy buttons .. and
a totally different logic for keypresses for getting character groups

>
> Here's my two cents:  Keep the standard GKOS control key combinations
> (PgUp, Shift, Arrow Left, etc), and use chordons to implement the
> various indian characters.
>
> For example, the ka kha ga gha nga set of characters could be grouped
> with the [D+E] keys
> for ka press [D+E]
> for kha press and hold [D+E] then press [A]
> for ga press and hold [D+E] then press [B]
> for gha press and hold [D+E] then press [C]
> for nga press and hold [D+E] then press [F]
>
> That's why chordons were invented; to add more combinations of
> characters without adding more keys.  I would think grouping them like
> this would make it easy to remember.

sounds interesting .. if i am to use a 6back for ONLY indian
language script .. and not use it for english letters in the same
computer or application, i surely can tweak the chording to
make a good fit .. let me think and work on this too ..

sometimes TWO solutions are okay .. like a desktop pc
as also a laptop pc .. both work


>
> Robb

[peekay]

> .... The whole point of GKOS is to minimize the number of

> chord combinations.  The 3+3 makes it easy to remember and easy to
> physically manipulate.  Trying to remember which combination of 10
> fingers is way too difficult.

here is an extract :
(from http://www.in10did.com .. Questions&Answers option).

How input facility could be maximized in the future. With this in
mind, we have developed a "chord" keyboard that uses only 10 keys -- a
number much easier to accommodate on our ever smaller devices.


How can 10 keys replace the entire keyboard?
The IN10DID concept is to provide input whenever one of its 10 keys is
pressed and released. However, each key acts as a sort of shift key
when it is held, and changes the value of the other nine keys. When a
second key is pressed, the value of that key is generated as input.
This allows 100 combinations, enough for every letter, number, or
character to be generated. To tackle multi-key presses such as
"Alt-3", or function keys, some additional keys are also pressed to
create the same effect. The difference is, with all the keys right
under your fingertips, there is no chance to put the right finger on
the wrong key.


Why use only 10 keys?
Because we have 10 fingers. 10 is a number with which most people are
very comfortable because our whole number counting system is base-10.
Ones and zeros fill our world with bit-streams of technology. We
believe that 10 keys will serve our input needs well into the future.


Is this system easy to learn?
Several things make IN10DID easier to learn than most other input
systems. The alphabet is produced in a consecutive fashion across the
fingers so that the proper key can be calculated, and not just simply
remembered by rote. Numbers are also continuous across the fingers
from left to right. A "shift" is produced by each finger, and follows
a logical pattern, or relates to the letters associated with that
finger.

We tested how easy this system was to learn at Saint Petersburg
College in Tampa Bay and found that 90% of the entire keyboard was
learned and retained in under six hours. The basic concept is easy to
grasp, and novices can begin to input very quickly. The students who
took part in the study expressed a strong desire to use this system
when devices become available.

-------------------------------

my comments :

they are using the 4 fingers and 2 thumbs for english
(the layout has its own logic .. just as the GKOS has it's logic)

note the answer to 'why 10 keys ?' ..
'we HAVE 10 fingers..that's why !'

in case of indian language script(s) there is an additional
logic in the structure of the alphabets .. they are grouped
in fives !







> Robb

[peekay]

> For example, the ka kha ga gha nga set of characters could be grouped
> with the [D+E] keys
> for ka press [D+E]
> for kha press and hold [D+E] then press [A]
> for ga press and hold [D+E] then press [B]
> for gha press and hold [D+E] then press [C]
> for nga press and hold [D+E] then press [F]

since there are unicodes for 12 indian languages already,
i guess typing english AND the 12 indian languages by
assigning unique combos for each letter of the 13 scripts ..
well, we will be taking too much on our head

we need to think differently .. a different layout logic
which will apply to EACH and EVERY indian language
script .. G1L1 will be L1+R1 for the letter ka in all
indian scripts .. they are all grouped almost exactly
the same way




> Robb