hex_geo_font_final და georgian16.bdf_some_design_corrections.bdf
Vladimer Sichinava
ბატონ გიას:
თქვენს მიერ სულ ბოლოს გამოგზავნილ ფონტის შესწორებაში კიდევ ერთი "წერტილოვანი"
შეცდომა შევამჩნიე და მგონი შევასწორე....ოღონდ არ ვარ დარწმუნებული ჩემი შესწორების ხარისხიანობაში.
ესეიგი შესამოწმებელია:
hex_geo_font_final - ფაილში "წ" ასო.
და + georgian16.bdf_some_design_corrections.bdf-ის ვარგისიანობა.
For BGP:
Honor and glory,
I remember during a IRC chat, Dejavu team member Ben Laenen had a question about Georgian capital "mkhedruli mtavruli ~ მხედრული მთავრული" alphabet. Are we going to include them in Dejavu's Georgian range too ?
Cheers,
Vladimer
BPG Kolumbus
----- Original Message -----From: Vladimer SichinavaSent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 04:30Subject: [geofonts:4] hex_geo_font_final და georgian16.bdf_some_design_corrections.bdfგამარჯობათ ყველას
Ben Laenen
> yes, there would be "mkhedruli mtavruli ~ მხედრული მთავრული"
Hi,
First, thanks for volunteering for the DejaVu project.
Vladimer told on IRC that you're certainly the person who can teach me
about the uppercase/titlecase in Georgian, as it is getting me quite
confused now, with a lot of names like khutsuri, nuskhuri, mkhedruli,
mkhedruli mtavruli and asomtavruli. I have no idea any more which ones
are used for what, and that would be quite important when we're going
to add them to DejaVu, that everything is put in the correct place :-)
If I followed correctly you wanted to provide us with the basic
alphabet and mkhedruli mtavruli, correct?
My main concern is if the mkhedruli mtavruli should be placed in the
uppercase block for Georgian (U+10A0-U+10CF), as I had the idea at
first that that wasn't the case. Right now I don't know it anymore :-)
I hope you can enlighten me about this issue and what fonts are
currently doing for Georgian about this issue if the mkhedruli mtavruli
isn't the same as the uppercase Georgian in Unicode.
Many thanks
Ben Laenen
André Bouatchidzé
გამარჯობათ,
> yes, there would be "mkhedruli mtavruli ~ მხედრული მთავრული"
ერთი სულელური შეკითხვა მაქვს: როგორ წარმოგიდგენიათ მხედრული მთავრულის დართვა, როცა მისთვის უნიკოდში სტანდარტული ადგილი არ არსებობს?
- ანდრე ბუაჩიძე.
BPG Kolumbus
„მხედრულის მთავრული“ ბპგ ფონტებში უნიკოდის „ხუცური მთავრულის“ ადგოლასაა.
ბპგ
Vladimer Sichinava
ყველას დიდი მადლობა მონაწილეობისთვის.
ლადო
BPG Kolumbus
in unicode there are represented
* modern georgian "lowercase" (mkhedruli)
* anient "uppercase/titlecase" (khutsuri mtavruli) - not in common use
* antient "loweracase/commoncase" (khutsuri nuskha) - not in common use
in unicode there is not represented modern georgian "uppercase/titlecase"
(mkhedruli mtavruli) - which in last decades is intensively used by
newspaprs and other media - this is influense of european traditions.
so unicode is to extense representation of georgian.
till unicode represents georgian "uppercase/titlecase" (mkhedruli
mtavruli) -- georgian font developers are using unicode range of anient
"uppercase/titlecase" (khutsuri mtavruli) for modern georgian
"uppercase/titlecase" (mkhedruli mtavruli)...
main principle -- mkhedruli mtavruli instead of nuskhuri mtavruli...
http://www.geocities.com/shavlego/fonts/0-fnt-history.htm
http://www.geocities.com/bpgfonts/index.htm
bpg
André Bouatchidzé
On Mon, 20 Nov 2006 19:24:27 +0200, BPG Kolumbus wrote:
> in unicode there are represented
> * modern georgian "lowercase" (mkhedruli)
> * anient "uppercase/titlecase" (khutsuri mtavruli) - not in common use
> * antient "loweracase/commoncase" (khutsuri nuskha) - not in common use
Khutsuri is certainly not in use nowadays but does the Unicode stadard have something to do with the popularity of a writing system?... After all, there could be other considerations like cultural value for example. Can someone argue why, from this point of view, mkhedruli mtavruli is more important than asomtavruli?
> in unicode there is not represented modern georgian "uppercase/titlecase"
> (mkhedruli mtavruli) - which in last decades is intensively used by
> newspaprs and other media - this is influense of european traditions.
Don't you think that mkhedruli mtavruli is more a typographic variant of mkhedruli than a separete writing system? I mean used mainly in titles but not having any other meaning than look-bigger-and/or-nicer. On the other hand, old georgian writing systems like asomtavruli and khutsuri have completely different glyphs, and are therefore considered as real writing systems.
> so unicode is to extense representation of georgian.
>
> till unicode represents georgian "uppercase/titlecase" (mkhedruli
> mtavruli) -- georgian font developers are using unicode range of anient
> "uppercase/titlecase" (khutsuri mtavruli) for modern georgian
> "uppercase/titlecase" (mkhedruli mtavruli)...
>
> main principle -- mkhedruli mtavruli instead of nuskhuri mtavruli...
Sorry, but it just doesen't make any sens to me. One should be able to represent in Unicode all writing systems *without* having to change the font. Example: how to create an SQL database of writings on the walls of old georgian churches with comments in modern georgian? How to export it in XML? Both store information in plain text.
IMHO, mkhedruli mtavruli should be placed on a separete font version on stadard, lowercase mkhedruli Unicode range on the fonts where it makes sense aesthetically or for some usability reasons.
Best Regards,
- André Bouatchidzé.
Ben Laenen
> Sorry, but it just doesen't make any sens to me. One should be able
> to represent in Unicode all writing systems *without* having to
> change the font. Example: how to create an SQL database of writings
> on the walls of old georgian churches with comments in modern
> georgian? How to export it in XML? Both store information in plain
> text.
>
> IMHO, mkhedruli mtavruli should be placed on a separete font version
> on stadard, lowercase mkhedruli Unicode range on the fonts where it
> makes sense aesthetically or for some usability reasons.
As far as I know, there are even some glyphs in mkhedruli mtavruli that
aren't in the current encode uppercase (I guess khutsuri mtavruli). At
least, I've seen it that way in a font Vladimer has sent me once, which
had some glyphs on code points that aren't assigned (very bad when
that's done :-). Not to mention that indeed those code points for
khutsuri mtavruli should only be used for that, as is mentioned above,
some people would want to use khutsuri mtavruli.
Now, for a possible solution: I have no idea how far the process of
getting mkheruli mtavruli in Unicode is, but there is an Opentype
feature that could be used for this, I think: titlecase variant.
Unfortunately, we're probably a very long way before font shapers will
support that...
Greetings
Ben
Gia Shervashidze
Generally regarding Georgian Alphabets (fonts, names, etc.) - just my point of view.
Look at this - http://www.gia.ge/zzz/alphabets.gif
There are 2 (two) Alphabets indeed.
OLD - Asomtavruli and
Contemporary - Mkhedruli
I Column - [OLD] Asomtavruli (carvings on stones and in very early manuscripts)
II Column - Mkhedruli (contemporary and widespread)
And that is correctly (again, from my point of view) solved in Unicode standard
As for others, they are variations of abovementioned I and II
III - Nuskha-Khutsuri is the [variation of I] hand script version Asomtavruli
IV - Mkhedruli Mtavruli - is the [variation of Mkhedruli] font for Captions used in Newspapers, websites, etc. in the nearest past. That's very convenient and almost all my fonts have corresponding "Mkhedruli Mtavruli" chars which i used intensively for publishing purposes.
Same time, there is no Capitals in Georgian at all (at least yet) - and it is very important also!!!
To implement Mtavruli instead of Asomtavruli seems very attractive and i'll be glad to have such _Standard_, but as for *nowadays* my recommendation is to preserve Unicode in "official" fonts like DejaVu and support Mkhedruli with "Mkhedruli Mtavruli" via other fonts.
This list could be very useful for the development an implementation of Mkhedruli Mtavruli. i believe ~99% of users and at least ~50% of developers will be happy to have it.
Anyway - everything has positive and negative sides.
Best,
g.\