Mtavruli at Unicode ML
Ben Laenen
discussion took place in July and deals about the Mtavruli alphabet in
Unicode. I figured that if you knew what they were thinking about the
issue you can find arguments about why they are wrong and why they
should put Mtavruli in Unicode.
Messages are in chronological order.
Greetings
Ben
---------- Forwarded Message ----------
Subject: Titles and headings in Georgian script
Date: Tuesday 24 July 2007
From: Andreas Prilop
To: uni...@unicode.org
How do I write/specify headings in Georgian script?
Unicode has only one set of modern Georgian letters at
U+10D0 to U+10F0.
The Unicode Standard 5.0, section 7.7, does mention "mtavruli style"
but I cannot find any information how to write it -
or specify it, for example, in HTML.
-------------------------------------------------------
---------- Forwarded Message ----------
Subject: Re: Titles and headings in Georgian script
Date: Tuesday 24 July 2007
From: Marnen Laibow-Koser
To: Andreas Prilop
On Jul 24, 2007, at 10:02 AM, Andreas Prilop wrote:
> How do I write/specify headings in Georgian script?
>
> Unicode has only one set of modern Georgian letters at
> U+10D0 to U+10F0.
>
> The Unicode Standard 5.0, section 7.7, does mention "mtavruli style"
> but I cannot find any information how to write it -
> or specify it, for example, in HTML.
>
Interesting question. I think the short answer is: you don't, at
least in most real cases.
Here's the long answer; I would appreciate corrections from people
who know the Georgian language and script better than I do.
Mkhedruli (i.e., modern Georgian) script is unicameral, and so would
not normally distinguish headings except perhaps by a larger font
size or a different font, both of which would be outside the scope of
Unicode. However, Georgian script has been influenced by the
surrounding bicameral alphabets, to the extent that newspaper
headlines and such are often written in a "capital" style where the
letters are stretched to be all the same height (no ascenders or
descenders). Again, however, this is probably a font decision, and
as such is outside the scope of Unicode. For HTML, I would think
that you'd just specify header tags and leave the rendering to the
browser.
The "mtavruli style" referred to in the Standard is presumably a
reference to Asomtavruli (although I haven't looked up the relevant
passage to be certain). This is the uppercase half of the Khutsuri
script, a completely different alphabet used in older writings, but
nearly obsolete today. The Asomtavruli letters are encoded in
Unicode as "GEORGIAN CAPITAL LETTER AN" and so on. There have been a
few modern attempts at using Asomtavruli letters as capitals for
Mkhedruli "lowercase", but this practice has not caught on. However,
Khutsuri has its own true lowercase (called Nuskhuri, IIRC); in
Unicode, this was formerly unified with Mkhedruli, but I seem to
recall that it got its own codespace in version 5.
To summarize:
Mkhedruli (modern Georgian) script is unicameral.
Khutsuri (Asomtavruli + Nuskhuri) is bicameral, but obsolete.
Does this answer your question?
Best,
--
Marnen Laibow-Koser
-------------------------------------------------------
---------- Forwarded Message ----------
Subject: Re: Titles and headings in Georgian script
Date: Tuesday 24 July 2007
From: Andreas Prilop
To: uni...@unicode.org
On Tue, 24 Jul 2007, Marnen Laibow-Koser wrote:
> To summarize:
> Mkhedruli (modern Georgian) script is unicameral.
> Khutsuri (Asomtavruli + Nuskhuri) is bicameral, but obsolete.
Yes, I know.
> Does this answer your question?
Sorry - no.
Thanks for your longish answer anyway.
-------------------------------------------------------
---------- Forwarded Message ----------
Subject: Re: Titles and headings in Georgian script
Date: Tuesday 24 July 2007
From: Michael Everson
To: uni...@unicode.org
At 16:02 +0200 2007-07-24, Andreas Prilop wrote:
>How do I write/specify headings in Georgian script?
>
>Unicode has only one set of modern Georgian letters at
>U+10D0 to U+10F0.
>
>The Unicode Standard 5.0, section 7.7, does mention "mtavruli style"
>but I cannot find any information how to write it -
>or specify it, for example, in HTML.
I am not sure if font technology supports this appropriately. The
best analogue is SMALL CAPS, but the question is how to build that
into a font and then getting HTML or other word processors to invoke
it.
--
Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com
-------------------------------------------------------
---------- Forwarded Message ----------
Subject: Re: Titles and headings in Georgian script
Date: Tuesday 24 July 2007
From: Marnen Laibow-Koser
To: Andreas Prilop
On Jul 24, 2007, at 12:19 PM, Andreas Prilop wrote:
[...]
>> Does this answer your question?
>
> Sorry - no.
> Thanks for your longish answer anyway.
Sorry to have misunderstood you, then. What *were* you asking?
Best,
Marnen Laibow-Koser
-------------------------------------------------------
---------- Forwarded Message ----------
Subject: Re: Titles and headings in Georgian script
Date: Tuesday 24 July 2007
From: Andreas Prilop
To: uni...@unicode.org
On Tue, 24 Jul 2007, Marnen Laibow-Koser wrote:
> Sorry to have misunderstood you, then. What *were* you asking?
How to achieve (writing for myself in a word processor
or specifying, say, in HTML) the "mtavruli style" as shown
in the Unicode Standard 5.0, chapter 7, figure 7-6 ?
This style is necessary for headings. Without it, it would
be like English newspapers without bold-face ;-)
-------------------------------------------------------
---------- Forwarded Message ----------
Subject: Re: Titles and headings in Georgian script
Date: Tuesday 24 July 2007
From: Marnen Laibow-Koser
To: Marnen Laibow-Koser
On Jul 24, 2007, at 12:05 PM, Marnen Laibow-Koser wrote:
> On Jul 24, 2007, at 10:02 AM, Andreas Prilop wrote:
>
>> How do I write/specify headings in Georgian script?
>>
>> Unicode has only one set of modern Georgian letters at
>> U+10D0 to U+10F0.
>>
>> The Unicode Standard 5.0, section 7.7, does mention "mtavruli style"
>> but I cannot find any information how to write it -
>> or specify it, for example, in HTML.
>>
>
[...]
> The "mtavruli style" referred to in the Standard is presumably a
> reference to Asomtavruli (although I haven't looked up the relevant
> passage to be certain).
[...]
Ah, OK. Having looked up the Standard, I now see that my assumption
was incorrect. The Mtavruli style referred to at the bottom of p.
249 is what I described here:
> However, Georgian script has been influenced by the surrounding
> bicameral alphabets, to the extent that newspaper headlines and
> such are often written in a "capital" style where the letters are
> stretched to be all the same height (no ascenders or descenders).
Note especially the last sentence of the paragraph in the Standard:
"Mtavruli is a font style, similar to SMALL CAPS in the Latin
script". I would take this to mean that it is outside the scope of
Unicode, and should be applied using higher-level mechanisms.
Best,
--
Marnen Laibow-Koser
-------------------------------------------------------
---------- Forwarded Message ----------
Subject: Re: Titles and headings in Georgian script
Date: Tuesday 24 July 2007
From: Marnen Laibow-Koser
To: Andreas Prilop
On Jul 24, 2007, at 12:46 PM, Andreas Prilop wrote:
> On Tue, 24 Jul 2007, Marnen Laibow-Koser wrote:
>
>> Sorry to have misunderstood you, then. What *were* you asking?
>
> How to achieve (writing for myself in a word processor
> or specifying, say, in HTML) the "mtavruli style" as shown
> in the Unicode Standard 5.0, chapter 7, figure 7-6 ?
>
> This style is necessary for headings. Without it, it would
> be like English newspapers without bold-face ;-)
I think you'll need a Mtavruli font, just as you'd need a bold font
for Roman boldface.
Best,
Marnen
-------------------------------------------------------
---------- Forwarded Message ----------
Subject: Re: Titles and headings in Georgian script
Date: Tuesday 24 July 2007
From: Michael Everson
To: uni...@unicode.org
At 12:50 -0400 2007-07-24, Marnen Laibow-Koser wrote:
>>This style is necessary for headings. Without it, it would
>>be like English newspapers without bold-face ;-)
>
>I think you'll need a Mtavruli font, just as you'd need a bold font
>for Roman boldface.
Yes, of course. The question is whether it can be invoked as a style or
not.
--
Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com
-------------------------------------------------------
---------- Forwarded Message ----------
Subject: Re: Titles and headings in Georgian script
Date: Tuesday 24 July 2007
From: John Hudson
To:
Michael Everson wrote:
> I am not sure if font technology supports this appropriately. The best
> analogue is SMALL CAPS, but the question is how to build that into a
> font and then getting HTML or other word processors to invoke it.
At the font level, if the headline forms of the Georgian letters are
provided as glyph
variants (as distinct from a headline font in which these are the
default forms), the
obvious layout feature to employ in the OpenType model would be the
<titl> Titling Forms
feature. This is accessible in professional design and publishing apps,
but not in most
word processors or via standard HTML/CSS.
The easiest solution would be a dedicated headline font, in which the
appropriate forms
are directly encoded as the default representation of the Georgian
letters. This could
then be used in any text app, and specified in CSS (presuming
appropriate distribution).
John Hudson
--
Tiro Typeworks www.tiro.com
Gulf Islands, BC
Do not begin to paddle unless you intend always to paddle.
- St Jean de Brébeuf, instructions for missionaries, 1637
-------------------------------------------------------
---------- Forwarded Message ----------
Subject: RE: Titles and headings in Georgian script
Date: Tuesday 24 July 2007
From: "Philippe Verdy"
To: "'Marnen Laibow-Koser'"
Marnen Laibow-Koser wrote:
> Ah, OK. Having looked up the Standard, I now see that my assumption
> was incorrect. The Mtavruli style referred to at the bottom of p.
> 249 is what I described here:
> > However, Georgian script has been influenced by the surrounding
> > bicameral alphabets, to the extent that newspaper headlines and
> > such are often written in a "capital" style where the letters are
> > stretched to be all the same height (no ascenders or descenders).
>
> Note especially the last sentence of the paragraph in the Standard:
> "Mtavruli is a font style, similar to SMALL CAPS in the Latin
> script". I would take this to mean that it is outside the scope of
> Unicode, and should be applied using higher-level mechanisms.
So you know the answer:
Do this exactly like with Latin text in small capitals. Encode the
normal
text in HTML text elements, and apply style on top of it using CSS (font
size adjustment, or a small-caps style available in fonts, but I doubt
you'll find many Georgian fonts with glyphs defined for the small-caps
style).
-------------------------------------------------------
---------- Forwarded Message ----------
Subject: RE: Titles and headings in Georgian script
Date: Tuesday 24 July 2007
From: "Philippe Verdy"
To: "'Michael Everson'", uni...@unicode.org
Michael Everson wrote:
> I am not sure if font technology supports this appropriately. The
> best analogue is SMALL CAPS, but the question is how to build that
> into a font and then getting HTML or other word processors to invoke
> it.
Isn't there a already possibility in TrueType/OpenType fonts to define
alternate small-caps style, that can be invoked directly from HTML using
a
standard CSS property for small-caps?
If so, you just need to augment a Georgian with these additional glyphs
using this standard OpenType feature.
-------------------------------------------------------
---------- Forwarded Message ----------
Subject: RE: Titles and headings in Georgian script
Date: Tuesday 24 July 2007
From: "Philippe Verdy"
To: "'Michael Everson'", uni...@unicode.org
Michael Everson wrote:
> >I think you'll need a Mtavruli font, just as you'd need a bold font
> >for Roman boldface.
>
> Yes, of course. The question is whether it can be invoked as a style
or
> not.
But I am assuming that this is exactly what Georgian publishers are
doing
routinely for their titles, exactly like Latin publishers do it
routinely...
So:
* either a separate font (in CSS, use "font-family:",
or "font-weight:" ; in
HTML without CSS use <b>...</b> or legacy <font name="...">...</font>.)
* or a font with a builtin small-caps transform style (in CSS, but use
the
CSS style property defined for it, which will also allow mixing other
fonts
or font-size, or weights and italics more easily within the same title)
-------------------------------------------------------
---------- Forwarded Message ----------
Subject: RE: Titles and headings in Georgian script
Date: Tuesday 24 July 2007
From: "Philippe Verdy"
To: "'John Hudson'"
It is possible in standard CSS:
h1,h2,h3,h4,h5,h6 { font-variant: small-caps ; }
See for example:
http://www.w3.org/Style/Examples/007/fonts.html
This should use the small-caps glyph variants defined in
OpenType/TrueType
fonts. See for example:
http://www.typotheque.com/fonts/small_caps_in_opentype/
There are other variants like the x-caps variant (the small-caps variant
is
defined with a height intermediate between the M-height capitals and the
lowercase x-height used by x-caps)
For TrueType/OpenType, see the “smcp”, “c2sc” features in the specs...
> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : unicode...@unicode.org [mailto:unicode...@unicode.org] De
la
> part de John Hudson
> Envoyé : mardi 24 juillet 2007 19:18
> Cc : uni...@unicode.org
> Objet : Re: Titles and headings in Georgian script
>
> Michael Everson wrote:
>
> > I am not sure if font technology supports this appropriately. The
best
> > analogue is SMALL CAPS, but the question is how to build that into a
> > font and then getting HTML or other word processors to invoke it.
>
> At the font level, if the headline forms of the Georgian letters are
> provided as glyph
> variants (as distinct from a headline font in which these are the
default
> forms), the
> obvious layout feature to employ in the OpenType model would be the
<titl>
> Titling Forms
> feature. This is accessible in professional design and publishing
apps,
> but not in most
> word processors or via standard HTML/CSS.
>
> The easiest solution would be a dedicated headline font, in which the
> appropriate forms
> are directly encoded as the default representation of the Georgian
> letters. This could
> then be used in any text app, and specified in CSS (presuming
appropriate
-------------------------------------------------------
---------- Forwarded Message ----------
Subject: Re: Titles and headings in Georgian script
Date: Tuesday 24 July 2007
From: John Hudson
To:
Philippe Verdy wrote:
> Isn't there a already possibility in TrueType/OpenType fonts to define
> alternate small-caps style, that can be invoked directly from HTML
using a
> standard CSS property for small-caps?
Yes this can be done in the font. In terms of CSS, whether these variant
smallcap glyphs
will be used (as opposed to mechanically scaled uppercase glyphs)
depends on how browsers
interpret the CSS and interact with the fonts.
JH
--
Tiro Typeworks www.tiro.com
Gulf Islands, BC
Do not begin to paddle unless you intend always to paddle.
- St Jean de Brébeuf, instructions for missionaries, 1637
-------------------------------------------------------
---------- Forwarded Message ----------
Subject: Re: Titles and headings in Georgian script
Date: Tuesday 24 July 2007
From: John Hudson
To:
Philippe Verdy wrote:
> See for example:
> http://www.w3.org/Style/Examples/007/fonts.html
>
> This should use the small-caps glyph variants defined in
OpenType/TrueType
> fonts.
It should, but it doesn't: at least, not in my Firefox browser. What is
happening is that
the uppercase character glyphs are being scaled down, rather than the
properly
proportioned smallcap variant glyphs in the font being used.
JH
--
Tiro Typeworks www.tiro.com
Gulf Islands, BC
Do not begin to paddle unless you intend always to paddle.
- St Jean de Brébeuf, instructions for missionaries, 1637
-------------------------------------------------------
---------- Forwarded Message ----------
Subject: RE: Titles and headings in Georgian script
Date: Tuesday 24 July 2007
From: "Philippe Verdy"
To: "'John Hudson'"
John Hudson wrote:
> Philippe Verdy wrote:
>
> > See for example:
> > http://www.w3.org/Style/Examples/007/fonts.html
> >
> > This should use the small-caps glyph variants defined in
> OpenType/TrueType
> > fonts.
>
> It should, but it doesn't: at least, not in my Firefox browser. What
is
> happening is that the uppercase character glyphs are being scaled
down,
> rather than the properly proportioned smallcap variant glyphs in the
font
> being used.
This is a reasonnable default behavior for browsers when they can't find
such variants in the currently selected font, or when the effective
support
of such font feature is still missing in the renderer used by the
browser.
The actual scaling behaviour may have several variants: one where the
capitals are just scaled down by adjusting the font size, the other by
scaling only the M-height down to the exposed x-height or some
intermediate
value, and the average capital width down to the average lowercase
letter
width (this generates better sizes). But artefacts will appear in both
cases
due to the irregular stroke width which will be reduced too (even if
hinting
is kept for enhancing the display at small sizes in such a way that
strokes
will remain approximately equal, but this won't be the case for larger
sizes
such as those used in titles).
The small-cap variant is still better when rendering texts, because it
will
preserve the differences between lowercase and capital letters of the
original text (only the original lowercase letters should be presented
in
small-cap variant, the uppercase letters should not be affected), and
will
avoiding filling the M-height (the extra vertical blank space will
facilitate the reading of the capitals, notably in paragraphs like
important
notices and warnings found in many software licences about the exclusion
or
limitation of warranty; this is much less a problem for titles that are
usually short or whose layout already includes taller line-heights in
addition to the heading and trailing margins for the title paragraphs).
-------------------------------------------------------
---------- Forwarded Message ----------
Subject: Re: Titles and headings in Georgian script
Date: Wednesday 25 July 2007
From: "Aiet Kolkhi"
To: "Andreas Prilop"
Hello,
this is a very interesting question.
To put it short, this is somewhat incorrect to comprare "Mtavruli"
(capital) style of contemporary Georgian alphabet (Mkhedruli) to small
caps font style. And it is definitely wrong to look for solutions in
CSS and other typographical directions, as the two "styles" or scripts
(consider as you like) are different in shape and changing size of the
characters would not give us Mtavruli style from Mkedruli script, nor
the other way around.
The only solution enabling users to use Georgian Mtavruli style
together with Georgian contemporary Mkhedruli alphabet would be to add
Georgian Mtavruli style range to Unicode (or to apply fonts on
different parts of the text, one font having Georgian Mkhedruli
characters in 10D0-10FF range and the other using Mtavruli style of
Georgian Mkedruli character in the same 10D0-10FF range).
Now more detailed explanation:
Being I believe the only Georgian member in Unicode, let me say a few
words about Georgian contemporary alphabet and its use. I apologize in
advance if the explanation is a bit too long.
The first Georgian alphabet known today is Georgian Asomtavruli (or
Mrglovani), created in Georgia before Christianity was officially
adopted. The earliest evidence is 1st–3rd Cent. A.D. inscriptions
found in Nekrisi, Eastern Georgia. Though some historical texts refer
to Georgian alphabet in 3rd Cent. B.C.
Asomtvruli has been presented since early versions of Unicode in
10A0–10C5 range as unicameral script. Asomtavruli was indeed
unicameral (though capital) and used as the only alphabet for writing
Georgian before the second Georgian alphabet, Nuskhuri (Khutshuri) was
introduced for wide use in about 9th Cent. A.D. During the period of
9th–11th Cent. A.D., both scripts were used, Asomtavruli as capitals
and Nuskhuri (Khutsuri) as lowercase.
Nuskhuri (Khutsuri) was added to Unicode in version 5 (Georgian
Supplement. Range: 2D00–2D2F), as lowercase to Asomtavruli range
(10A0–10C5). In version 5 also, Asomtavruli was changed from caseless
state to uppercase script for Nuskhuri (Khutsuri).
The contemporary Georgian (third) alphabet, called Mkhedruli, has been
widely used since 11 Cent A.D. and is used today. It has been a
unicameral script, though today's use has raised discussions among
linguists and experts.
Mkedruli has been presented in Unicode since early versions, in
10D0–10FF range as unicameral script.
In 18 Cent. A.D. famous Georgian scientist and public figure Nikoloz
Tbileli created Mtavruli style of Mkdedruli alphabet. The style has
been used for headings, titles etc., and for short time, it was used
the same way uppercase is used in English, for geographical names,
beginning of sentence etc. though this did not last long and its use
remained for headings and titles.
At present, the use of Mtavruli style is increasing. Nearly all
titles, headings, subtitles are written with Mtavruli stye. Comparing
an English-language newspaper with Georgian one reveals that English
language newspaper includes only one headline in uppercase, out of ten
headlines on front page. Georgian newspaper uses Mtavruli style on all
ten headlines as well as all titles in ads placed on newspapers,
billboards etc.
The crawling news ticker on BBC News is written in lowercase, whereas
crawling news text on Georgian TV stations in written with Mtavruli
style. Also, any title, credits text or caption on Georgian TV is
written with Mtavruli.
As a result, language experts are considering creating a language
norm, limiting the use of Mtavruli style to only headings, to make
sure Mtavruli style does not replace Mkhedruli alphabet.
BTW, some linguists report France facing similar danger, as using all
caps in formal correspondence is becoming more and more frequent,
abolishing French accents from texts that are not used when text is
written in uppercase.
So, to sum up my long text,
1. Mtavruli style is different in shape from Mkhedruli and thus
comparing it to Small Caps style is incorrect. Also, small caps text
can be created from any latin font, using uppercase characters,
whereas Georgian Mtavruli style would require special font which would
put mtavruli style glyphs instead of Mkhedruli.
2. Mtavruli style's use is increasing rapidly and is presently used on
virtually all headings, ad texts, captions, titles and texts on TV
screen.
3. There is no language norm or style guide yet requiring or limiting
the use of Mtavruli style or Mkhedruli style in certain cases. No
language norm differentiates Mkhedruli from Mtavruli style.
4. Georgia still has not decided about the norm or style guide of
using Mtavruli style.
5. User's requirement to be able to write texts in mkhedruli with
Mtavrili style has resulted in creating number of Georgian unicode
typefaces [1] incompatible to Unicode, since they correctly place
Georgian Mkhedruli characters in 10D0–10FF range, but also incorrectly
place Mtavruli style characters in 10A0–10C5 range (which is intended
for ancient Georgian Asomtavruli characters in Unicode). Fonts like
that are very commonly used on all operating systems and webpages and
default for Georgian font on almost any Linux distribution. A good
example is site of Georgian Parliament [2], which tries to use
Mtavruli style for navigation menu and has to load Georgian font
dynamically (which only works on Internet Explorer) and this font is
incompatible to Unicode in the same manner I described.
As a result, if someone visits Parliament of Georgia website from any
other browser or operating system and does not happen to have
installed the same incompatible Georgian font on the system, he/she
sees Georgian Asomtavruli (obsolete) characters in site navigation
menu and headings :)
So the issue is a bit complicated.
I will write to you as soon as there is some progress in this regard.
I am sorry for the long mail.
Kind regards,
Noshre Chkhaidze (Aiet Kolkhi)
Georgian Localizations
http://www.Gakartuleba.org
http://www.284bc.com
[1] Fonts encoded in this incorrect manner include BPG Glaho, Ingiri,
BPG Couerier, Zuzumbo etc. and nearly all typefaces from leading
Georgian font vendor BPG Info-Tech -
http://bpg.sytes.net/files/fonts/ and
http://bpg.sytes.net/BPG-InfoTech/
-------------------------------------------------------
---------- Forwarded Message ----------
Subject: Re: Titles and headings in Georgian script
Date: Wednesday 25 July 2007
From: "Denis Jacquerye"
To: "Aiet Kolkhi"
On 7/24/07, Aiet Kolkhi wrote:
> Hello,
>
> this is a very interesting question.
>
> To put it short, this is somewhat incorrect to comprare "Mtavruli"
> (capital) style of contemporary Georgian alphabet (Mkhedruli) to small
> caps font style. And it is definitely wrong to look for solutions in
> CSS and other typographical directions, as the two "styles" or scripts
> (consider as you like) are different in shape and changing size of the
> characters would not give us Mtavruli style from Mkedruli script, nor
> the other way around.
The right solution for most applications at the moment is to use a
specific font with Mtavruli.
> The only solution enabling users to use Georgian Mtavruli style
> together with Georgian contemporary Mkhedruli alphabet would be to add
> Georgian Mtavruli style range to Unicode (or to apply fonts on
> different parts of the text, one font having Georgian Mkhedruli
> characters in 10D0-10FF range and the other using Mtavruli style of
> Georgian Mkedruli character in the same 10D0-10FF range).
This solution makes sense, although it is argued against in the
Unicode documentation stating Mtavruli is just a style variant.
Comparing it to Smallcaps is wrong since it implies capitals, but
capitals don't exist for Mkhedruli, also Smallcaps are oftern mixed
with Capitals whereas Mtavruli isn't mixed with Mkhedruli. "Titling"
is really better as John Hudson suggests.
> Now more detailed explanation:
>
> Being I believe the only Georgian member in Unicode, let me say a few
> words about Georgian contemporary alphabet and its use. I apologize in
> advance if the explanation is a bit too long.
>
> The first Georgian alphabet known today is Georgian Asomtavruli (or
> Mrglovani), created in Georgia before Christianity was officially
> adopted. The earliest evidence is 1st–3rd Cent. A.D. inscriptions
> found in Nekrisi, Eastern Georgia. Though some historical texts refer
> to Georgian alphabet in 3rd Cent. B.C.
>
> Asomtvruli has been presented since early versions of Unicode in
> 10A0–10C5 range as unicameral script. Asomtavruli was indeed
> unicameral (though capital) and used as the only alphabet for writing
> Georgian before the second Georgian alphabet, Nuskhuri (Khutshuri) was
> introduced for wide use in about 9th Cent. A.D. During the period of
> 9th–11th Cent. A.D., both scripts were used, Asomtavruli as capitals
> and Nuskhuri (Khutsuri) as lowercase.
>
> Nuskhuri (Khutsuri) was added to Unicode in version 5 (Georgian
> Supplement. Range: 2D00–2D2F), as lowercase to Asomtavruli range
> (10A0–10C5). In version 5 also, Asomtavruli was changed from caseless
> state to uppercase script for Nuskhuri (Khutsuri).
>
> The contemporary Georgian (third) alphabet, called Mkhedruli, has been
> widely used since 11 Cent A.D. and is used today. It has been a
> unicameral script, though today's use has raised discussions among
> linguists and experts.
>
> Mkedruli has been presented in Unicode since early versions, in
> 10D0–10FF range as unicameral script.
>
> In 18 Cent. A.D. famous Georgian scientist and public figure Nikoloz
> Tbileli created Mtavruli style of Mkdedruli alphabet. The style has
> been used for headings, titles etc., and for short time, it was used
> the same way uppercase is used in English, for geographical names,
> beginning of sentence etc. though this did not last long and its use
> remained for headings and titles.
>
> At present, the use of Mtavruli style is increasing. Nearly all
> titles, headings, subtitles are written with Mtavruli stye. Comparing
> an English-language newspaper with Georgian one reveals that English
> language newspaper includes only one headline in uppercase, out of ten
> headlines on front page. Georgian newspaper uses Mtavruli style on all
> ten headlines as well as all titles in ads placed on newspapers,
> billboards etc.
>
> The crawling news ticker on BBC News is written in lowercase, whereas
> crawling news text on Georgian TV stations in written with Mtavruli
> style. Also, any title, credits text or caption on Georgian TV is
> written with Mtavruli.
>
> As a result, language experts are considering creating a language
> norm, limiting the use of Mtavruli style to only headings, to make
> sure Mtavruli style does not replace Mkhedruli alphabet.
>
> BTW, some linguists report France facing similar danger, as using all
> caps in formal correspondence is becoming more and more frequent,
> abolishing French accents from texts that are not used when text is
> written in uppercase.
Removing accents from capitals in French is a mistake, mostly due to
faulty keyboard layouts in France and bad tradition.
> So, to sum up my long text,
>
> 1. Mtavruli style is different in shape from Mkhedruli and thus
> comparing it to Small Caps style is incorrect. Also, small caps text
> can be created from any latin font, using uppercase characters,
> whereas Georgian Mtavruli style would require special font which would
> put mtavruli style glyphs instead of Mkhedruli.
Indeed, using CSS smallcap on Mkhedruli is useless and meaningless. No
browser actually supports smallcaps properly. Besides smallcaps is not
appropriate as stated earlier.
> 2. Mtavruli style's use is increasing rapidly and is presently used on
> virtually all headings, ad texts, captions, titles and texts on TV
> screen.
Inclusion in Unicode makes sense to me. Although argument against are
also very strong.
> 3. There is no language norm or style guide yet requiring or limiting
> the use of Mtavruli style or Mkhedruli style in certain cases. No
> language norm differentiates Mkhedruli from Mtavruli style.
>
> 4. Georgia still has not decided about the norm or style guide of
> using Mtavruli style.
These would really help.
> 5. User's requirement to be able to write texts in mkhedruli with
> Mtavrili style has resulted in creating number of Georgian unicode
> typefaces [1] incompatible to Unicode, since they correctly place
> Georgian Mkhedruli characters in 10D0–10FF range, but also incorrectly
> place Mtavruli style characters in 10A0–10C5 range (which is intended
> for ancient Georgian Asomtavruli characters in Unicode). Fonts like
> that are very commonly used on all operating systems and webpages and
> default for Georgian font on almost any Linux distribution. A good
> example is site of Georgian Parliament [2], which tries to use
> Mtavruli style for navigation menu and has to load Georgian font
> dynamically (which only works on Internet Explorer) and this font is
> incompatible to Unicode in the same manner I described.
Using the Asomtavruli codepoints for Mtavruli is deeply wrong. This
breaks semantics.
Instead of adding Mtavruli in the Asomtavruli spots of a font, make a
Mtavruli variant font for systems not handling the titling feature,
i.e. for pretty much every applications, make a Mkhedruli font with
Mtavruli as titling for the few apps supporting it.
By the way why aren't Asomtavruli and Nuskhuri compatible (NFKD/NFCD)
to Mkhedruli?
> As a result, if someone visits Parliament of Georgia website from any
> other browser or operating system and does not happen to have
> installed the same incompatible Georgian font on the system, he/she
> sees Georgian Asomtavruli (obsolete) characters in site navigation
> menu and headings :)
>
> So the issue is a bit complicated.
>
> I will write to you as soon as there is some progress in this regard.
>
> I am sorry for the long mail.
>
> Kind regards,
> Noshre Chkhaidze (Aiet Kolkhi)
> Georgian Localizations
>
> http://www.Gakartuleba.org
> http://www.284bc.com
>
> [1] Fonts encoded in this incorrect manner include BPG Glaho, Ingiri,
> BPG Couerier, Zuzumbo etc. and nearly all typefaces from leading
> Georgian font vendor BPG Info-Tech -
> http://bpg.sytes.net/files/fonts/ and
http://bpg.sytes.net/BPG-InfoTech/
>
> [2] http://www.parliament.ge
>
>
>
--
Denis Moyogo Jacquerye --- http://home.sus.mcgill.ca/~moyogo
Nkótá ya Kongó míbalé --- http://info-langues-congo.1sd.org/
DejaVu fonts --- http://dejavu.sourceforge.net/
Unicode (UTF-8)
-------------------------------------------------------
---------- Forwarded Message ----------
Subject: Re: Titles and headings in Georgian script
Date: Wednesday 25 July 2007
From: "David Starner"
To: uni...@unicode.org
On 7/24/07, Aiet Kolkhi wrote:
> Hello,
>
> this is a very interesting question.
>
> To put it short, this is somewhat incorrect to comprare "Mtavruli"
> (capital) style of contemporary Georgian alphabet (Mkhedruli) to small
> caps font style. And it is definitely wrong to look for solutions in
> CSS and other typographical directions, as the two "styles" or scripts
> (consider as you like) are different in shape and changing size of the
> characters would not give us Mtavruli style from Mkedruli script, nor
> the other way around.
That does not follow; italics are different in shape from normal
characters, and yet are treated as a typographical feature. There's no
hard and fast rules, but if it's the same set of characters used in a
different situation, like a header, it's typographic.
-------------------------------------------------------
---------- Forwarded Message ----------
Subject: RE: Titles and headings in Georgian script
Date: Wednesday 25 July 2007
From: "Philippe Verdy"
To: "'Denis Jacquerye'", "'Aiet Kolkhi'"
Denis Jacquerye wrote:
> Envoyé : mercredi 25 juillet 2007 07:05
> À : Aiet Kolkhi
> Cc : Andreas Prilop; uni...@unicode.org; Marnen Laibow-Koser;
> uni...@unicode.org
> Objet : Re: Titles and headings in Georgian script
>
> On 7/24/07, Aiet Kolkhi wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > this is a very interesting question.
> >
> > To put it short, this is somewhat incorrect to comprare "Mtavruli"
> > (capital) style of contemporary Georgian alphabet (Mkhedruli) to
small
> > caps font style. And it is definitely wrong to look for solutions in
> > CSS and other typographical directions, as the two "styles" or
scripts
> > (consider as you like) are different in shape and changing size of
the
> > characters would not give us Mtavruli style from Mkedruli script,
nor
> > the other way around.
>
> The right solution for most applications at the moment is to use a
> specific font with Mtavruli.
>
> > The only solution enabling users to use Georgian Mtavruli style
> > together with Georgian contemporary Mkhedruli alphabet would be to
add
> > Georgian Mtavruli style range to Unicode (or to apply fonts on
> > different parts of the text, one font having Georgian Mkhedruli
> > characters in 10D0-10FF range and the other using Mtavruli style of
> > Georgian Mkedruli character in the same 10D0-10FF range).
>
> This solution makes sense, although it is argued against in the
> Unicode documentation stating Mtavruli is just a style variant.
> Comparing it to Smallcaps is wrong since it implies capitals, but
> capitals don't exist for Mkhedruli, also Smallcaps are oftern mixed
> with Capitals whereas Mtavruli isn't mixed with Mkhedruli. "Titling"
> is really better as John Hudson suggests.
You have missed a part of the discussion !
"Mtavruli", as intended by the author of the question, did NOT designate
"Asomtavruli" but REALLY a small-capitals variant style from the default
Georgian Mkhedruli script (where ascenders and descenders are
suppressed,
and all letters are made as high as capitals, all above the baseline.
He EXPLICITLY stated that, and this did NOT contradict the Unicode
documentation that discusses "Asomtavruli" (the half part for capitals
or
for old monumental styles of the separate Georgian Khutsuri script, the
other part being Nukhsuri for lowercase letters) but says nothing about
"Mtavruli".
The solutions proposed were correct (even though we lack some
confirmation
that "Mtavruli" is the correct name for this variant style), because
this is
still the normal Mkhedruli script, with just a variant of form, so it
does
not require reencoding the text. That's something that can't be
performed by
reencoding it to Asomtavruli, but only through the alternate style-only
solutions. And just adjusting the size of the fonts will not produce the
expected effect, this really needs a separate font or a font made with
small-caps variant glyphs for the Georgian Mkhedruli letters.
-------------------------------------------------------
---------- Forwarded Message ----------
Subject: RE: Titles and headings in Georgian script
Date: Wednesday 25 July 2007
From: "Philippe Verdy"
To: "'Aiet Kolkhi'", "'Andreas Prilop'"
Aiet Kolkhi wrote:
> Envoyé : mercredi 25 juillet 2007 00:15
> À : Andreas Prilop
> Cc : uni...@unicode.org; Marnen Laibow-Koser; uni...@unicode.org
> Objet : Re: Titles and headings in Georgian script
>
> Hello,
>
> this is a very interesting question.
>
> To put it short, this is somewhat incorrect to comprare "Mtavruli"
> (capital) style of contemporary Georgian alphabet (Mkhedruli) to small
> caps font style. And it is definitely wrong to look for solutions in
> CSS and other typographical directions, as the two "styles" or scripts
> (consider as you like) are different in shape and changing size of the
> characters would not give us Mtavruli style from Mkedruli script, nor
> the other way around.
>
> The only solution enabling users to use Georgian Mtavruli style
> together with Georgian contemporary Mkhedruli alphabet would be to add
> Georgian Mtavruli style range to Unicode (or to apply fonts on
> different parts of the text, one font having Georgian Mkhedruli
> characters in 10D0-10FF range and the other using Mtavruli style of
> Georgian Mkedruli character in the same 10D0-10FF range).
This solution is wrong. Tweaking the Old Georgian script (Asomtavruli)
in
any font will not be correct.
From what you have described (and the need to preserve the text
equivalence
with Mkhedruli, really means that a font must encode the Mtavruli vriant
glyphs exactly like Modern Georgian (Mkhedruli) letters in the same
10D0-10FF range.
Suppose now that a browser does not have such variant font or Mkhedruli
font
without a smallcaps variant, or without any other features needed to
support
the "titling" style, then th normal Mkhedruli letters will be displayed.
Of
course this may cause problems if one wants to preserve some visual
distinctions (i.e. emphasis here, not a change in meaning) for the
titles.
This can be easily solved by not only adapting the font style, but also
some
other presentation style: a larger font size, boldness, underlining...
Or adapting the layout (for example, different horizontal and/or
vertical
margins for titles, different color for titles, horizontal indentation
and/or background/border framing of the text that is not part of the
titles...).
Adjusting the margins in a HTML document is quite simple (and it can
also be
performed through consistant CSS style) and it will work in monochrome
documents for basic printing.
I am still convinced that book and newspapers publishers will use the
simplest solution for their titles: using a different font, but still
writing everything with Mkhedruli.
-------------------------------------------------------
---------- Forwarded Message ----------
Subject: RE: Titles and headings in Georgian script
Date: Wednesday 25 July 2007
From: "Philippe Verdy"
To: "'Aiet Kolkhi'", "'Andreas Prilop'"
Aiet Kolkhi wrote:
> To put it short, this is somewhat incorrect to comprare "Mtavruli"
> (capital) style of contemporary Georgian alphabet (Mkhedruli) to small
> caps font style. And it is definitely wrong to look for solutions in
> CSS and other typographical directions, as the two "styles" or scripts
> (consider as you like) are different in shape and changing size of the
> characters would not give us Mtavruli style from Mkedruli script, nor
> the other way around.
>
> The only solution enabling users to use Georgian Mtavruli style
> together with Georgian contemporary Mkhedruli alphabet would be to add
> Georgian Mtavruli style range to Unicode (or to apply fonts on
> different parts of the text, one font having Georgian Mkhedruli
> characters in 10D0-10FF range and the other using Mtavruli style of
> Georgian Mkedruli character in the same 10D0-10FF range).
Really no. The Mkhedruli style is NOT different from the Mtavruli style
your
described at the text encoding level. This is purely a stylistic
variant,
and this is demonstrated by the fact that you want it only for titles,
not
for normal texts (note that even with Latin/Greek/Cyrilic, the
small-caps
variant style is sometimes used to present some long paragraph texts, it
is
used as an emphasis stylistic feature and DOES NOT require reenconging
these
scripts).
We have seen that there even exists different styles for "small-caps" in
Latin. How many variants of Latin would then we need to reencode in
Unicode?
Really you are going the wrong way and want to introduce complexity in a
much simpler problem. All what you have described really demonstrates
that
this is still the normal Modern Georgian script (even if the default
"Mkhedruli" style is just ONE of its presentation forms).
Nobody has suggested you to tweak the texts using things like the mostly
abandonned usage of the Old Monumental Asomtavruli letters from the
bicameral Old Georgian script to make the unicameral modern Georgian
script
into a bicameral one: even within titles, your description really
suggests
that Mkhedruli titles are remaining unicameral. In other words this is
still
the same Modern Georgian script, and they should still be encoded using
Mkhedruli letters (in the same 10D0-10FF range).
You have even suggested that this was like having Latin without bold;
but
remember also that bold variants of Latin are not mandatorily supported
in
browsers, and so they may occasionnaly appear exactly like non bold
texts
(think about text console-based browsers like Links: bold is most often
not
supported, but may eventually be rendered by color adjustment; but it
will
not be rendered on monochrome displays, or with Braille readers).
If you really want to make sure that titling gets correct emphasis from
the
rest of the text in all situations, you need to play with several
stylistic
alternatives combined with other layout features (including the possible
use
of punctuation, bullets, extra spaces, leading numbering of titles...)
Given that you wanted that for usages on the web (for browsers) using
style
really makes sense. For typesetted documented (like PDFs, newspapers,
books...), using multiple fonts is really not a problem, because you the
author know exactly how the text will be rendered and you can use every
possible stylistic feature and as many fonts as wantedto produce the
desired
effects.
-------------------------------------------------------
---------- Forwarded Message ----------
Subject: RE: Titles and headings in Georgian script
Date: Wednesday 25 July 2007
From: "Philippe Verdy"
To: "'David Starner'", uni...@unicode.org
David Starner wrote:
> > this is a very interesting question.
> >
> > To put it short, this is somewhat incorrect to comprare "Mtavruli"
> > (capital) style of contemporary Georgian alphabet (Mkhedruli) to
small
> > caps font style. And it is definitely wrong to look for solutions in
> > CSS and other typographical directions, as the two "styles" or
scripts
> > (consider as you like) are different in shape and changing size of
the
> > characters would not give us Mtavruli style from Mkedruli script,
nor
> > the other way around.
>
> That does not follow; italics are different in shape from normal
> characters, and yet are treated as a typographical feature. There's no
> hard and fast rules, but if it's the same set of characters used in a
> different situation, like a header, it's typographic.
Very true. The situation here is exactly similar to the various italic,
bold/light, monospaced/serif/sansserif, condensed/wide,
basescript/superscript/subscript, cursive/non-cursive,
simple/decorated/shadowed, black/reversed/boxed stylistic variants of
the
same Latin script. All of them are implying some change in glyph
definitions, and none of them have required reencoding the Latin script
in
duplicate blocks.
As the author of the question suggested in the beginning, not having
such
visual distinction in Georgian would have the same effect as not having
bold
in Latin for titles. But I don't see why an unnecessary exception must
be
made here for the modern unicameral Georgian script, given that there's
no
change in the semantic and properties of the characters in Georgian
titling.
Unicode does not encode style.
-------------------------------------------------------
---------- Forwarded Message ----------
Subject: Re: Titles and headings in Georgian script
Date: Wednesday 25 July 2007
From: "Aiet Kolkhi"
To:
I agree to the comments.
I gave the explanation in order to address the questions, though I am
not yet suggesting that Mtavruli style be added to a separate range.
As I noted earlier, the norm describing the increased use of
contemporary "Mtavruli" style does not exist in Georgia yet. Should
this change in the feature, there may be necessity adding separate
range for it, but this will depend on the language norm adopted by the
country.
I would not fully agree with comparing Mtavruli style characters with
bold or italic style, as it is a bit more than that, but has not
reached the state when Mtavruli style characters are required to
properly present Georgian text (be it at the beginning of sentence or
titles), in which case a separate range would be necessary.
Currently no Georgian language norm recognizes the existence of the
style.
Regarding the typefaces, unfortunately there is not a single Georgian
Unicode-encoded typeface placing Mtavruli style characters in 0D0-10FF
range. They all incorrectly place the Mtavruli style characters in
10A0–10C5 range.
I do not think anyone has supported the idea of placing the characters
there, but this is how Georgian vendors seem to work. Regarding
international vendors, no big font vendor has created a typeface
Georgian typeface with Mtavruli style yet.
Monotype/Microsoft Sylfaen typeface only covers Mkhedruli script.
Arial Unicode MS typeface covers Mkhedruli, but has spacing issues in
certain applications.
Regards,
Aiet Kolkhi
-------------------------------------------------------
---------- Forwarded Message ----------
Subject: Re: Titles and headings in Georgian script
Date: Wednesday 25 July 2007
From: "Denis Jacquerye"
To:
On 7/25/07, Philippe Verdy wrote:
> Denis Jacquerye wrote:
> > Envoyé: mercredi 25 juillet 2007 07:05
> > À: Aiet Kolkhi
> > Cc: Andreas Prilop; uni...@unicode.org; Marnen Laibow-Koser;
> > uni...@unicode.org
> > Objet: Re: Titles and headings in Georgian script
> >
> > On 7/24/07, Aiet Kolkhi wrote:
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > > this is a very interesting question.
> > >
> > > To put it short, this is somewhat incorrect to comprare "Mtavruli"
> > > (capital) style of contemporary Georgian alphabet (Mkhedruli) to
small
> > > caps font style. And it is definitely wrong to look for solutions
in
> > > CSS and other typographical directions, as the two "styles" or
scripts
> > > (consider as you like) are different in shape and changing size of
the
> > > characters would not give us Mtavruli style from Mkedruli script,
nor
> > > the other way around.
> >
> > The right solution for most applications at the moment is to use a
> > specific font with Mtavruli.
> >
> > > The only solution enabling users to use Georgian Mtavruli style
> > > together with Georgian contemporary Mkhedruli alphabet would be to
add
> > > Georgian Mtavruli style range to Unicode (or to apply fonts on
> > > different parts of the text, one font having Georgian Mkhedruli
> > > characters in 10D0-10FF range and the other using Mtavruli style
of
> > > Georgian Mkedruli character in the same 10D0-10FF range).
> >
> > This solution makes sense, although it is argued against in the
> > Unicode documentation stating Mtavruli is just a style variant.
> > Comparing it to Smallcaps is wrong since it implies capitals, but
> > capitals don't exist for Mkhedruli, also Smallcaps are oftern mixed
> > with Capitals whereas Mtavruli isn't mixed with Mkhedruli. "Titling"
> > is really better as John Hudson suggests.
>
> You have missed a part of the discussion !
>
> "Mtavruli", as intended by the author of the question, did NOT
designate
> "Asomtavruli" but REALLY a small-capitals variant style from the
default
> Georgian Mkhedruli script (where ascenders and descenders are
suppressed,
> and all letters are made as high as capitals, all above the baseline.
Small-capitals of non existant capitals doesn't make sense to me.
Titling style does.
> He EXPLICITLY stated that, and this did NOT contradict the Unicode
> documentation that discusses "Asomtavruli" (the half part for capitals
or
> for old monumental styles of the separate Georgian Khutsuri script,
the
> other part being Nukhsuri for lowercase letters) but says nothing
about
> "Mtavruli".
>
> The solutions proposed were correct (even though we lack some
confirmation
> that "Mtavruli" is the correct name for this variant style), because
this is
> still the normal Mkhedruli script, with just a variant of form, so it
does
> not require reencoding the text. That's something that can't be
performed by
> reencoding it to Asomtavruli, but only through the alternate
style-only
> solutions. And just adjusting the size of the fonts will not produce
the
> expected effect, this really needs a separate font or a font made with
> small-caps variant glyphs for the Georgian Mkhedruli letters.
I understood encoding Mtavruli as its own block.
I definitely agree about a Mtavruli font being the best solution.
--
Denis Moyogo Jacquerye --- http://home.sus.mcgill.ca/~moyogo
Nkótá ya Kongó míbalé --- http://info-langues-congo.1sd.org/
DejaVu fonts --- http://dejavu.sourceforge.net/
Unicode (UTF-8)
-------------------------------------------------------
---------- Forwarded Message ----------
Subject: RE: Titles and headings in Georgian script
Date: Wednesday 25 July 2007
From: "Philippe Verdy"
To: "'Denis Jacquerye'"
Denis Jacquerye wrote:
> Small-capitals of non existant capitals doesn't make sense to me.
> Titling style does.
This is just a question of terminology. In both cases this designate a
font
variant: I also indicated that the terms "small-caps" was not universal
and
that other terms were used for designating other similar styles like
"x-caps". I did not use the terms "small capitals", just the SYMBOLIC
name
"small-caps" which DOES NOT restrict to "small capitals" and does not
necessarily means capitals (in fact it does not indicate true capitals).
The terms "titling" would as much wrong when the style would be used to
emphasize FULL PARAGRAPHS of texts (such as important notices like
absence
of warranties in a software licence or contract) if you take them too
scrupulously. So reread what I wrote, I used "small-caps" not "small
capitals".
Technically, for rendering purpose, this choice of terminology DOES NOT
make
any difference (look for example about the terminologies "letter
modifier"
or "punctuation" given in Unicode, it is not always meaning the same
thing
in all scripts or languages). What is important is that it designates a
consistent rendering feature, here a font variant, independently of its
actual use or meaning in the text or script, and the fact that there
exists
other known variants (like alternate figure styles for digits,
superscripts
and subscripts...)
-------------------------------------------------------
---------- Forwarded Message ----------
Subject: RE: Titles and headings in Georgian script
Date: Wednesday 25 July 2007
From: "Philippe Verdy"
To: "'Aiet Kolkhi'"
Aiet Kolkhi wrote:
> Currently no Georgian language norm recognizes the existence of the
style.
>
> Regarding the typefaces, unfortunately there is not a single Georgian
> Unicode-encoded typeface placing Mtavruli style characters in 0D0-10FF
> range. They all incorrectly place the Mtavruli style characters in
> 10A0-10C5 range.
>
> I do not think anyone has supported the idea of placing the characters
> there, but this is how Georgian vendors seem to work.
Without any doubt, those fonts are tweaking the Unicode standard in a
non-compliant way (but it was probably compliant before the Georgian
script
was reanalyzed and split into two separate scripts).
So contact those font vendors so that they update their bogous fonts.
And anyway, it would be good if some large font vendor supported this
feature of the Georgian script.
-------------------------------------------------------
---------- Forwarded Message ----------
Subject: Re: Titles and headings in Georgian script
Date: Wednesday 25 July 2007
From: "Aiet Kolkhi"
To:
On 7/25/07, Philippe Verdy wrote:
> Without any doubt, those fonts are tweaking the Unicode standard in a
> non-compliant way (but it was probably compliant before the Georgian
script
> was reanalyzed and split into two separate scripts).
Yes, this must be one of the reasons.
> So contact those font vendors so that they update their bogous fonts.
> And anyway, it would be good if some large font vendor supported this
> feature of the Georgian script.
Definitely. And since Georgian is very simple script to support, it
would be nice if all popular operating systems came with at least one
Georgian typeface and keyboard layout :)
Regards,
Aiet Kolkhi
-------------------------------------------------------