Georgian Supplement 2D00-2D2F for DejaVu Sans

[BPG Kolumbus]

გამარჯობათ

 

დავასრულე მუშაობა და გავმართე ნუსხა-ხუცური (კუთხოვანი) Georgian Supplement 2D00-2D2F ფონტისთვის DejaVu Sans (Normal, Bold).

 

ამ წერილსვე ერთვის ფონტები და ფონტის გამოსაცდელი დოკუმენტი (MS Word, PDF).

 

გთხოვთ გამოსცადოთ და მისცეთ მსვლელობა.

 

ბესარიონ გუგუშვილი (ბპგ)

 

 

Hi all

 

Georgian Supplement 2D00-2D2F (Nuskha Khutsuri) for DejaVu Sans is ready now (Normal, Bold).

 

Please test it and promote.

 

Visarion Gugushvili (BPG)

[BPG]

Attention:
Goegian Nuskha-Khutsuri letters are "slanted" originally, naturally
(not italics, but slant) -- so italics would be more slanted...

[Vladimer Sichinava]

On პარ, 2007-08-31 at 22:20 +0300, BPG Kolumbus wrote:



Such a nice font, I like it very much! Thank You Mr. Bessarion!
For me it's ready to be inserted!

Dear Ben, Denis, Davide

What about Mkhedruli Mtavruli? Is it possible to collocate them into Private Area (as soon as they are ready of course)?

It would be really nice to have full Geo-Alphabet support...

With Best Regards,

Vladimer Sichinava

[Vladimer Sichinava]

[Ben Laenen]

Hi,

since I don't really like the private use area, I'd rather see them just
out of bounds, without code points, and reachable through OpenType
features. But it'll be a quite few years before for example a web
browser would be able to do that :-) Using the private use area is
dangerous because if you start to encode those code points there, your
text has to be converted when the glyphs in PUA get either reallocated,
or when you use a different font etc. But yeah, it's again a tough
discussion since no-one would be able to see the glyphs if they are out
of bounds, except the people who have Adove Indesign or something :-)

Another option suggested on Unicode mailing list not too long ago was to
have a separate Mtavruli style in your font, next to Bold and Italic.
But in the current state of DejaVu that's not really an option...

But yeah, it's certainly possible to put them in PUA, but with the
warning to our users to not directly use those glyphs in a text :-)

Greetings
Ben

[Vladimer Sichinava]

Hi,

Hello Ben,

since I don't really like the private use area, I'd rather see them just 
out of bounds, without code points, and reachable through OpenType 
features. But it'll be a quite few years before for example a web 
browser would be able to do that :-) Using the private use area is 
dangerous because if you start to encode those code points there, your 
text has to be converted when the glyphs in PUA get either reallocated, 
or when you use a different font etc. But yeah, it's again a tough 
discussion since no-one would be able to see the glyphs if they are out 
of bounds, except the people who have Adove Indesign or something :-)

So this means that Mkhedruli Mtavruli become useless?

Another option suggested on Unicode mailing list not too long ago was to 
have a separate Mtavruli style in your font, next to Bold and Italic. 
But in the current state of DejaVu that's not really an option...

But yeah, it's certainly possible to put them in PUA, but with the 
warning to our users to not directly use those glyphs in a text :-)

Greetings
Ben

Dear Bessarion, do you have any comments regard this?

[BPG Kolumbus]

Hi all and my friend Lado

 

Most of all I like Ben's term "dangerous" :) - for most Georgians this term means war, death or some disaster...

 

And:

"But yeah, it's certainly possible to put them in PUA, but with the warning to our users to not directly use those glyphs in a text :-)"

 

Yes - we put them into PUA and same time we issue special world-wide warning that DejaVu font which includes Georgian Mtavruli inside PUA is DANGEROUS...

 

greetings,

BPG

[BPG Kolumbus]

Hi all it's me - once more

 

I was joking, but was really in danger...

 

But, I have build keyboard driver (15 minutes using Microsoft Keyboard Layout Creator Version 1.3) and tested Georgian Mtavruli allocated inside PUI - this term on Win...

 

You can test it - Mtavrulized font an keyboard installer is included in attachement.

 

ვჩქარობდი და ტექსტში შეცდომა დამიშვია -- მართლა დავშინდი ამ ბენის მუქარისგან :)

 

BPG

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Vladimer Sichinava

To: Ben Laenen

Cc: geof...@googlegroups.com ; Dennis Moyogo ; BPG

Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2007 14:51

Subject: [geofonts ~ ქართული შრიფტი:100] Re: Mkhedruli Mtavruli for Sans, usable in Private Use Area E000

[BPG]

ეს PUI საიდან გამომიტხა... უკაცრავად...

ვორდშიც გამოვცადე და იქაც მუშაობს Public Use Area-დან ასომთავრული.

http://geofonts.googlegroups.com/web/PUI_Keyboard_MSWord.gif

ვიმედოვნებ არც ლინუქს-უნიქსებში უნდა იქნეს რაიმე პრობლემა...

* * *

On Sep 5, 10:23 pm, "BPG Kolumbus"

>  Key-n-Font_Ka_Mtavruli_PUI.zip
> 442KDownload
>
>  PUI_Keyboard.gif
> 56KViewDownload- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[Ben Laenen]

On Wednesday 05 September 2007 21:23, BPG Kolumbus wrote:
> Hi all it's me - once more
>
> I was joking, but was really in danger...

I thought so :-) but what I really meant is that if you encode texts
with those glyphs, there's no guarantee you can still read the text at
a later date. "Dangerous" then meaning that if you for example made
your thesis with those code points used, you perhaps have titles that
don't display correct anymore after a while :-) or someone else can't
read it anymore if they do not have the same font...

Anyway, since it'll be years before the proper way will work, I have
nothing against putting it in PUA for now, we don't exactly have a lot
of different options, but we still have to choose a good place in PUA
so there won't be a conflict with other assigned code points by other
groups, since we could best co-ordinate this with the other fonts as
well.

btw, when we do put these extra block in all Georgian fonts, we may at
one point be able to convince Unicode to put Mtavruli in its own block
somewhere, but seeing the last discussion about that on their mailing
list, it will need a lot more work to get them convinced :-)

Greetings
Ben

[Vladimer Sichinava]

მხედრული მთავრულის range-ს ვერ ვპოულობ

DejaVuSans_2D00-2D2F_sept-5_mtavrulit.ttf შრიფტში

ხომ ვერ მეტყოდით სად არის?

პატივისცემით ლადო

[BPG Kolumbus]

გამარჯობა ლადო

DejaVuSans_2D00-2D2F_sept-5_mtavrulit.ttf შრიფტში მხედრულის მთავრული
დაადგილებულია PUA ზონის სულ დასაწყისიდან: E000-E026 ფარგლებში - ჯერ-ჯერობით,
საცდელად, მანამ სანამ ბენ ლაენი მიგვითითებს ზუსტად სად მოვათავსოთ.

აგრეთვე დავწერე პატარა მაკროსი მს ვორდისთვის, რომელიც ტექსტში მხედრულს
გადააქცევს მხედრულის მთავრულად (PUA ზონის) და პირიქით - PUA ზონის მხედრულის
მთავრულს გადააქცევს მხედრულად. ალბათ ასეთი პატარა ხელსაწყოებიც გახდება
საჭირო კლავიატურის გაწყობის ინსტრუმენტარიუმთან ერთად.

ბესარიონი

P.S. ვინდოუზ 2000 სისტემაში (რომელსაც მე ვიყენებ) ყველაზე მაგარი ისაა, რომ
მაგალითად მს ვორდის ან ფრონტპეიჯის „სიმბოლოს ჩამატების“ ხელსაწყო PUA ზონას
„ხედავს“ -- მაგრამ „ვერ ხედავს“ უნიკოდის სტანდარტის ნუსხა ხუცურის ზონას --
შესამოწმებელია იქს-პი, 2003 და მომდევნოები... თუმცა კლავიატურის დრაივერით
ყველა მისაწვდომია და იბეჭდება...

----- Original Message -----
From: "Vladimer Sichinava" <vlsic...@gmail.com>
To: <geof...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Friday, September 07, 2007 03:56
Subject: [geofonts ~ ქართული შრიფტი:107] Re: Mkhedruli Mtavruli for Sans,
usable in Private Use Area E000

>

[BPG Kolumbus]

Hello Ben

1. Yes - if in some text we would have Mtavruli in the range of PUA - other users viewing this text are to have a font where inside same range of PUA are Georgian letters. But this is generally common even for Unicode standard texts - (for most systems today) if I have written some text using Georgian Nuskha-Khutsuri (Unicode 2D00-2D20) and user have not font on computer which contains Georgian inside this range - they also can not see the text...

I am not sure if you and others can see following Unicode Standard (!) text on your machine:

ⴎⴀⴜⴀⴜⴀ ⴅⴀⴐ, ⴍⴁⴍⴊⴈ. ⴁⴄⴃⴋⴀ ⴃⴀⴋⴈⴁⴐⴈⴗⴅⴀ: ⴚⴓⴃ ⴃⴐⴍⴑ ⴃⴀⴅⴍⴁⴊⴃⴈ. ⴒⴀⴌⴆⴄ ⴋⴀⴚⴅⴈⴀ ⴎⴀⴒⴀⴐⴀ, ⴋⴍⴉⴊⴄⴁⴄⴜⴅⴈⴀⴌⴈ, ⴇⴄⴇⴐⴈⴑ ⴇⴅⴀⴊⴄⴁⴈⴇ ⴋⴍⴜⴈⴜⴉⴌⴓⴊⴈ ⴇⴞⴄⴊⴈ ⴕⴀⴇⴈⴁⴈ. ⴟⴄⴐ ⴐⴕⴄⴁⴈ ⴃⴀ ⴉⴁⴈⴊⴄⴁⴈ ⴀⴐ ⴀⴋⴍⴋⴑⴅⴊⴈⴀ, ⴙⴊⴈⴕⴄⴁⴈⴚ ⴀⴐ ⴂⴀⴋⴋⴀⴂⴐⴄⴁⴈⴀ.

Till we would have Unicode standard for Georgian Mtavruli - we would be forced some time to use "Download font" option or Embedded Font options (like PDF)...

 

2. Now I have Georgian Mkhedruli Mtavruli for Sans and Serif of DejaVu -- waiting for decision where to allocate them.

 

Please take into account -- that I also am working with some official bodies, state structures in Georgia responsible for Georgian scripture standard on this problem and there we plan to issue "Universal Typographic Georgian Font" which would include all Georgian scriptures as Unicode Standard compliant, - and not included into Unicode Standard (letters for Georgian and Caucasian dialects, ligatures, etc...) including Georgian Mkhedruli Mtavruli (with one among other aims to promote Georgian Local Standard for Mkhedruli Mtavruli) - in this aspect it would be great to coordinate Georgian Mtavruli inside DejaVu and Georgian "Universal Basement Font".

 

Respects,

Besarioni (BPG)

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ben Laenen" <

benl...@gmail.com>
To: <geof...@googlegroups.com>
Cc: "BPG Kolumbus" <gougouchvil...@kolumbus.fi>

Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 14:44
Subject: [geofonts ~ ქართული შრიფტი:105] Re: Mkhedruli Mtavruli for Sans,
usable in Private Use Area E000


>

[Ben Laenen]

On Friday 07 September 2007 14:46, BPG Kolumbus wrote:
> DejaVuSans_2D00-2D2F_sept-5_mtavrulit.ttf შრიფტში მხედრულის მთავრული
> დაადგილებულია PUA ზონის სულ დასაწყისიდან: E000-E026 ფარგლებში -
> ჯერ-ჯერობით, საცდელად, მანამ სანამ ბენ ლაენი მიგვითითებს ზუსტად სად
> მოვათავსოთ.

No idea what it says, but I can see the Unicode range in PUA there :-)
To get an idea about other allocations made by other vendors like
Apple, Microsoft and Adobe, you can go to
http://scripts.sil.org/cms/scripts/page.php?site_id=nrsi&item_id=VendorUseOfPUA
which has info on that. Adobe for example has ranges assigned there for
Latin smallcaps etc. SIL has also its own assignments for glyphs that
aren't in Unicode yet:
http://scripts.sil.org/cms/scripts/page.php?site_id=nrsi&item_id=SILPUAassignments

It's best to avoid these ranges so there are no problems when we need to
insert another few in PUA. DejaVu has already a few glyphs of the Adobe
PUA glyph list I believe, next to U+F000 and U+F001.

Greetings
Ben