Re: Ocean heat is off the charts—here's what that means for humans and ecosystems around the world

[Ron Baiman]

Thank you Renaud!  I hope you don't mind my distributing this more broadly as I think it's quite important!

Best,

Ron

On Thu, Jun 22, 2023 at 10:27 AM Renaud de RICHTER <renaud.d...@gmail.com> wrote:

https://phys.org/news/2023-06-ocean-chartshere-humans-ecosystems-world.html 

[Maiken Winter]

Hi dear all,

may I ask you... since all the writing and talking didn't help and we are now close to the irreversible tipping points we know about for years...what's your opinion about Science Rebellion and the Last Generation? Do you consider to also become part of this movement (as I am)?

It's horrible that we are so far into this catastrophe that even I blockade streets.

Best,

Maiken

Ron Baiman <rpba...@gmail.com> hat am 26.06.2023 18:28 CEST geschrieben:

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[rob...@rtulip.net]

Hello Maiken

 

I had not heard of Last Generation but we have equivalent groups in Australia. I found a report on German government crackdown on last generation disruptive protests at https://earth.org/last-generation-activists/.

 

Such groups mean well but lack coherent strategic vision of how to prevent dangerous warming and are often unwilling to engage in courteous dialogue.  They wrongly imagine that shutting down fossil fuel industries as fast as possible is the best way to respond to climate change.  This is a popular line on the political left, but it is a futile and incorrect ideology that sets back efforts to improve public understanding of climate science.

 

Cutting emissions is marginal to the immediate climate situation, given the high risk of tipping points which can only be mitigated by albedo enhancement.  As well, the inertia in the fossil fuel economy means it has the power and interest to ignore climate science.  Improving the GHG situation is only possible in the long term.  Trying to accelerate emission reduction creates division and antagonism while achieving nothing for actual cooling. By contrast, albedo enhancement can support commercial and community interests in political and economic and environmental stability and security.

 

It is important not to subordinate climate policy to the old fashioned socialist idea that building a popular front of progressive forces is the only way to achieve change.  Climate stability and repair can be achieved through negotiation across partisan lines to gain broad support for net zero heating as a policy goal.  That will require intergovernmental support for sound governance of measures to increase planetary albedo.

 

Regards

 

Robert Tulip

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[H simmens]

Hi Maiken,

If you study the websites of Scientists Rebellion (SR) and Extinction Rebellion (XR) you will see a vague and almost incoherent analysis of the dilemma that we are in and the necessary actions to get out of it. 

SR speaks of the need for decarbonization at the required scale, whatever in the world that means. It also demands degrowth with the rich to pay for degrowth, however in the world that would work.  

Extinction Rebellion has a number of a long-standing demands articulated as far back as 2018. They call for governments to tell the truth, for citizen assemblies to be created by governments to essentially take over the decision making process and for net zero by 2025.  

XR  is essentially violating its own first demand to tell the truth in calling for decarbonization in two years. (when they first called for decarbonization in 2018 at least there was the longshot possibility of getting close to zero in less than a decade with emergency scale action.) 

There is of course no conceivable pathway to decarbonize in two years without total planetary economic collapse, poverty, chaos, and death.  Yet they have yet to modify or drop the demand. 

Neither SR or XR appear to even demand carbon removal, much less direct Climate cooling as Robert indicated. 

I have had conversations with numerous people in XR in the US and the UK over the years (I marched in two of the major XR actions in London several years ago) to no avail. 

Paradoxically while they highlight the term rebellion in their very titles, they refuse to date to accept any climate remedies except the mainstream ERA model - emission reductions alone. Thus they refuse to challenge the increasingly flawed paradigm that governs planetary climate action. What kind of rebellion is that?

 I expect to have an opportunity to speak with one of XR’s most prominent public leaders who expressed interest in cooling before too long, and I’m keeping my fingers crossed that there will finally be greater receptivity to a broad based climate triad approach. 

I’m not familiar with Last Generation. 

Hope this helps. 

Herb

Herb Simmens

@herbsimmens

Author A Climate Vocabulary of the Future 

“A Sciencepoem, an Inspiration, A prophecy, also hilarious. Dive in and see.” 

- Kim Stanley Robinson

Author The Ministry For the Future 

On Jun 26, 2023, at 10:07 PM, rob...@rtulip.net wrote:



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[Oeste]

Hi Maiken

To my opinion the main problem we are confronted seems to be the widespread stupidity concerning scientific facts. Also politicans and journalists and even many scientists I would not except from this definition. What is the reason for this? Our science is devided in many branches and ofte the horizon of people ends at the border of a scientific branch. To my opinion we have an enormous amount of academic grade and good educated people on the globe, much much more than during the time of Humboldt and Goethe but possibly less with the interdisciplinary experience of these Scientists or of James Lovelock, a scientist of the modern area

Hence this is the main problem because the climate problem is in reality a multidisciplinary problem: if we want to restore the climate in a sustainable manner as to gain back the climate situation of the pre-industrial time we also must restore in parallel also the ecosystems of the whole Earth. According to the complex cross-linked net between land-based ecosystems, ocean ecosystems, sediment ecosystems, weathering processes. It needs a deep understanding of the multiple links between carbon circle, bio-weathering processes, geochemistry. Our Climate depends on all these many mutual influences and hence is under control of all these influences. In principle our habitat is a huge ecosystem-controlled organism. This picture has been described first by James Lovelock with the term "Gaia Principle". The metabolism of this organism has been permanent developed from the begin of life in the Hadean until now. The mass of living mass has increased since these times to a maximum in the preindustrial presence. During the last 250 years mankind reduced the living mass in the oceans by more than 90% and also reduced also the living mass on the continents by deforestation probably by more than 50%. Additional the combustion of fossil fuels for energy, steel, aluminium, copper, cement production and transport produced lots of greenhouse substances as like as CO2, methane, black soot.

We need to build up a new branch transcending science which tries to decipher the complex global life-controlled metabolism as to use the right tools for the short-term and long-term restoration of this metabolism. It seems necessary to start with both: short- and long-terme restoration measures. There are some tools as short term measures in the engineers toolbox which might find use in said restoration work. Some others of the advertised solutions might worsen the problem.

But to do the necessary research, lab and field-testing needs money. Governments, politicans and even the Green have ignored the problem. Since more than 20 years we developed models and measures for this purpose but got only little help by private sponsors not any help from government or parties. To my opinion the politicans will ask and pay for solutions not before the water level will have risen enough until the streets of coastal towns become flooded.

As you see, education and information of the broad level of the population, journalists, politicans and even of the scientific community is an necessity. Any sticking of yourself and your friends on the streets will not solve the problem

Franz Dietrich Oeste
gM-Ingenieurbuero

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[Chris Vivian]

All,

 

See these links for more pictures of the temperature anomalies in the North Atlantic/North Sea:

 

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2378819-uk-and-ireland-suffer-one-of-the-most-severe-marine-heatwaves-on-earth/

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/jun/19/marine-heatwave-uk-irish-coasts-threat-oysters-fish-high-temperatures

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/06/20/europe/marine-heatwave-north-atlantic-climate-scn-intl/index.html

 

Chris.

 

From: healthy-planet-...@googlegroups.com <healthy-planet-...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Ron Baiman

Sent: Monday, June 26, 2023 5:29 PM
To: Renaud de RICHTER <renaud.d...@gmail.com>; healthy-planet-action-coalition <healthy-planet-...@googlegroups.com>; Planetary Restoration <planetary-...@googlegroups.com>; 'Eelco Rohling' via NOAC Meetings <noac-m...@googlegroups.com>; Healthy Climate Alliance <healthy-clim...@googlegroups.com>; geoengineering <geoengi...@googlegroups.com>
Cc: John Nissen <johnnis...@gmail.com>; Shaun Fitzgerald <sd...@cam.ac.uk>; Clive Elsworth <Cl...@endorphinsoftware.co.uk>; Robert Chris <robert...@gmail.com>

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[Ron Baiman]

Dear Colleagues,

In relation the last sentence in the excerpt from a quote in the Guardian piece that Chris shared:

"Piers Forster, a professor of climate physics at the University of Leeds, said: “Both Met Office and NOAA analyses of sea-surface temperature show temperatures are at their highest ever level – and the average sea-surface temperature breached 21C for the first time in April. These high temperatures are mainly driven by unprecedented high rates of human-induced warming.

“Cleaning up sulphur from marine shipping fuels is probably adding to the greenhouse gas driven warming.  ...  "

A bunch of us (in forums and communications within the groups in the lists above) have been discussing a potential immediate practical step (that earlier has been raised by others) that may provide at least a modicum of cooling especially over the oceans: a relaxation of the "bunker fuel" sulfur content regulations that just came into effect in 2020 (https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/jan/01/shipping-fuel-regulation-to-cut-sulphur-levels-comes-into-force ) for inter-port "high seas" shipping. The idea is that cargo ships and tankers would be able to use the old dirty sulfur laden fuel in the open ocean but switch to the cleaner fuel when they are near ports or human habitation. Apparently many ships have multiple fuel tanks so that they may be able to switch fuels in transit.

To be clear, we would stress that we fully support getting off of fossil fuels, but if fossil fuels are going to be used anyway it makes no sense not to at least benefit from fossil fuel burning maritime sulfur aerosol generation that is known to have a significant cooling effect (how much is currently being re-estimated using the "termination shock" signal from the 2020 abrupt change in sulfur emissions due to the regulation).  Looking forward this also points the way to including effective (and hopefully less harmful to human health) tropospheric aerosol generators in future non GHG emitting replacements for the bunker fuel (see the HPAC direct climate cooling petition for some possible options: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1yHe2Fe6fU11odfcH-4GwdYDNTCk7uB-J/view?usp=sharing ). 

Any thoughts or data on this that might be helpful in working up (or not) this proposal would be appreciated.  I will repost under a separate heading to better publicize and solicit feedback.

Best,

Ron

[Dr. Maiken Winter]

Dear all,

thanks for your replies; they made me quite thoughtful.

Nobody of the activists say, that they have the solution. It´s a fire alarm. Its a cry out to stop the normal routine of life and to realize the climate emergency.
The specific things that need to be done are plentiful. Other experts have solutions for the problem - in every area such as mobility, food, building, shopping, ... and yes, why not also cooling.
All those different solutions are not mentioned by the Last Generation, because it is not their task. We are a siren.

But there is one big request: We want a citizen´s congregation that works out the solutions together with scientists, economists, etc pp. We need to make a plan together that citizens understand and are part of. That can absolutely include cooling.

You know as well as I do, that many people did environmental education for many decades. Many of us activists have done a lot of other things before and continue doing so. I have given hundreds of talks since my training with Al Gore 2007. I quit my scientific career on grassland birds; I loved my work soo much!, to have more time for education. I did school projects, habve a traveling exhibition with fotografs made by Gary Braasch, am politically active, ...

Of course it is clear that the problem is not just "climate" but our entire relationship to nature, our decoupling from nature, our misunderstanding that we are better and independent, free of the ties of nature..instead of being a content and happy integral part we destroy it. How insane!

But it is too late. Education is too slow. I still give talks, I still go in schools, I still am politically active, but it is not enough.

Of course gluing will not solve the problem. But it tries to wake people up o the emergency we are in.

I think one huge problem is that so many groups work parallel and consider their one approach as the one needed. We need all of them! We need the sirenes, we need to get out of fossil fuels as quickly as possible, we need to completely change our lifestyle and not use up more CO2 than our budget allows, we need to protect and restore nature, minimize pollutants especially nitrogen,...and so much more.

So instead of calling one group to be wrong we need to build up on each other, enforce our strength by supporting each other.

Please consider showing solidarity with the Last Generation. Calling them criminal, sending them into jail while those who destroy our future are free is just wrong!

We all are important. Life is so beautiful. We will only be able to protect it when we all support each.

With deeply concerned greetings,

Maiken

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Dr. Maiken Winter
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[Oeste]

Dear Maiken

You are welcome on board and deepen your knowledge about possible solutions how to restore the mankinds habitat. We all know that even a global greenhouse gas emission stop is by far not enough to stop the ongoing climate and ocean warming. We are forced to present solutions which could help to prevent the ecosystems from collapse and extinction. Hence we need to extract and/or destroy the greenhouse substances from the atmosphere and further use means like cloud generation and cloud whitening to cool additional by albedo increase. If we do all this in a sensitive manner and mimick the natural processes for this purpose we have good chances to do the restoration of climate and ecosystems. You and your friends might help us to prevent us from overheating the climate. What we need are ressources to test our climate cooling models.

You are invited to help us: the more we are (engineers, other kind of scientists and laypersons) the louder becomes our voice and the better we are heard. It's wrong to say "..to find solutions for the climate problem is not Last Generation's problem": you and many others activists will notice and learn, yes, there are solution models for the climate problem and we can help to find out ways to change these models from theory into practice.

If you and your friends become convinced of one ore more engineering projects for climate restoration you may direct helpful demonstration work as to motivate governments to test the environmental compatibility, climate cooling ability and the practicability of the prognosed climate restoration models.

Meanwhile the climate-relevant destruction of the natural forests has not come to a stop, neither by deforestation nor wild fire. You might not stop the deforestation directly but demonstrate for strong measures against countries and their leaders where this happens.

Possibly these are faster ways to gain progress in climate restoration. Let us work together for restoring our habitat.

Franz

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