Fwd: Better brush up on your lies

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Alan Robock

Feb 11, 2012, 6:22:12 PM2/11/12
to geoengineering
For you all to get the flavor of some of our enemies.

For some reason, a discussion I had with a chemtrails demonstration outside the AAAS meeting in San Diego two years ago, and which was posted to YouTube then, has reappeared on a website, and this is in reaction to that.

Of course, the person who sent this did not sign it.

[On sabbatical for current academic year.  The best way to contact me
is by email, rob...@envsci.rutgers.edu, or at 732-881-1610 (cell).]

Alan Robock, Professor II (Distinguished Professor)
  Editor, Reviews of Geophysics
  Director, Meteorology Undergraduate Program
  Associate Director, Center for Environmental Prediction
Department of Environmental Sciences        Phone: +1-732-932-9800 x6222
Rutgers University                                  Fax: +1-732-932-8644
14 College Farm Road                   E-mail: rob...@envsci.rutgers.edu
New Brunswick, NJ 08901-8551  USA      http://envsci.rutgers.edu/~robock

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Better brush up on your lies
Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2012 06:35:28 -0800 (PST)
From: winsom88 <wins...@yahoo.com>
To: rob...@envsci.rutgers.edu

I just saw this article about you, since I am one of MILLIONS watching what you and your friends are doing to our atmosphere and our health in the NAME of "science".  YOU and your fellow CHEMTRAIL murderers are disgusting SCUM!   And what's more, you have the nerve to live off the public like the LEECHES you are.

Did you
ever have a conscious, or is that word foreign to you?   THE PUBLIC IS NOW VERY EDUCATED ON CHEMTRAILS AND THEIR PURPOSE.  BETTER BRUSH UP ON YOUR LIES, because right now they are fooling NO ONE. 
They will come back to haunt you.  
THERE IS PLENTY OF EVIDENCE, BUDDY, and whistleblower testimony.

You might be interested in THIS article, but there are hundreds of thousands more just like them, and videos even a child can figure out.  The public is aware of you and your kind, despite all your efforts..

Public Apathy Explained - Numbing of America  



Saturday, February 20, 2010 - Annual AAAS Meeting (American Association for the Advancement of Science) at the San Diego Convention Center. Scientist Alan Robock, Rutgers University, meets with protesters before his scheduled session, "Can Geoengineering Save Us from Global Warming? ".

Protesters claim geoengineering is already taking place with chemical spraying (via persistant jet trails also known as "chemtrails") while Mr. Robock argues they are confused with normal contrails that produce cirrus clouds.

Alan Robock is funded by the US National Science Foundation, to evaluate "the efficacy and possible consequences of proposals to reduce incoming solar radiation to counteract global warming by injecting aerosol particle into the stratosphere."

Recent papers describe climate model simulations and the benefits, risks, and costs of stratospheric geoengineering.

01:12 "we're concerned about the moral hazard that if people think geoengineering would work there would be less push to do mitigation..." or people will think it's really scary and we'll push even harder for mitigation.

02:00 "There is no such thing as 'massive spraying'"

02:19 "You have no evidence it comes from the air..."

Weather Modification for hire:

02:25 "Yes we do, it's in your pocket"

02:38 "As a scientist, if you're making claims you need to have the 'trail of evidence'" [chemtrails?]

02:52 "There is no evidence"

03:12 "You have no evidence"

03:35 "I'm just a scientist, sorry."

05:34 Rolls eyes, "Can I answer your question?" Well IF you don't want to listen...

06:36 "Do you think I'm part of the 'conspiracy'?"      ANSWER:  YES

07:04 "Do you know how I get money?" The government gives me money...link:

07:55 "But you have no evidence..."

10:06 Long range transport of air pollution from China... [where does the pollution sprayed over California fall?]

10:38 "It's not anybody doing anything on purpose, it's just part of pollution." and your confused...

Alan Robock Home Page:

Can Geoengineering Save Us from Global Warming?

Climate Change Mitigation:

Geo-engineering is a CRIME AGAINST HUMANITY when it is forced, without consent. It is a Weapon of Mass Destruction (WMD).

HEADS UP FOLKS - March 22nd GeoEngineers Meeting in Monterey, CA


ALERT- Geo-Engineering Scientists to Meet on the Monterey Peninsula; Asilomar State Beach and Conference Grounds

On March 22-26, 2010, the Climate Respond Fund is sponsoring the Asilomar International Conference on Climate Intervention Technologies in Monterey, California.

This Conference will address and develop guidelines for research and testing of proposed climate intervention and geoengineering technologies.

Ken Caldeira

Feb 11, 2012, 8:16:00 PM2/11/12
to rob...@envsci.rutgers.edu, geoengineering
I think it is not helpful to think of them as "enemies". I see these people as victims of past government lies and, in many cases, their own mental instability.

These people have been living under a government that has started secret wars, has secretly kidnapped and tortured people, and so on. They have lived under a government that has lied to them repeatedly.

These people have no technical background to distinguish ordinary jet contrails from paranoiac visions of massive government conspiracies.  They see jet trails becoming more numerous over the decades and are too innumerate to associate this increase with increase in jet travel.

They have been taught that they cannot trust government statements, they certainly don't trust scientists, and now they are left with no source that they can trust (other than their like-minded fellow conspiracy theorists.)

I prefer to see these ChemTrails folks as victims, both of past government lies and, in many cases I suspect, of some degree of mental illness.

So, let's not look at them as "enemies", but as people who need help.

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David Keith

Feb 11, 2012, 8:24:10 PM2/11/12
to kcal...@gmail.com, rob...@envsci.rutgers.edu, geoengineering

Strongly agree.


My experience talking with chemtrails folks a good fraction are positive and well intentioned, and a quite small fraction are hostile.


Here is a video that a group of chemtrails folks took and posted when they came to talk with me. You get a good sense of the range concerns:




The Chemtrails believers are one extreme of a continuum. Here is some text on the topic from a short book I am writing:


Critiques of geoengineering arise from diverse world views, indeed some of the strongest critical voices come from diametrically opposed ends of the political spectrum. Passions run very hot.  To cite a vivid personal example, I have had one death threat that was serious enough to warrant a call to the police, and received many outraged comments by colleagues whom I respect.  The most extreme critiques (and the death threat) come from people who are convinced by the chemtrails conspiracy theory which holds that the US government is deliberately spraying its citizens with toxins from aircraft. Believers claim that metals such as aluminum and barium are sprayed from commercial aircraft for purposes that are alleged to range from mass culling the human population to mind control. These views are wildly held, one sixth of respondents in a large public survey we ran in Canada, Brittan and the US believed that is was partially or completely true that “The government has a secret program that uses airplanes to put harmful chemicals into the air.”


Our poll found that people are more likely to oppose geoengineering if they are skeptical of government authority and self-identify with right end of the political spectrum. While chemtrails believers are clearly an extreme, they are a coherent part of a continuum that includes a much larger group who believe that climate risks are being exaggerated by the environmental left as an excuse to justify further extension of state power at the expense of individual freedoms. To overstate it, this view sees geoengineering as a tool used by a technocratic, transnational, and godless elite who have concocted both the climate threat and the geoengineering response as a means to extend their power.

Ken Caldeira

Feb 11, 2012, 8:58:48 PM2/11/12
to David Keith, rob...@envsci.rutgers.edu, geoengineering
By the way, the best resource I have found on "the science of ChemTrails" is this web site:  http://contrailscience.com/

Mick West

Feb 11, 2012, 11:49:29 PM2/11/12
to kcal...@gmail.com, David Keith, rob...@envsci.rutgers.edu, geoengineering
I'm Mick West, and I run the Contrail Science site that Ken mentioned. 

I'd like to echo what David said. I met with some of the chemtrail folk today in Venice, California for an extensive discussion, and was struck by just how nice and well-meaning they all were. They are all good people, but have just arrived at some rather unusual interpretations of reality, largely fueled by a distrust of the "powers that be". 

While it might seem temping to view them simply as a sideshow, my concern is that the chemtrail group will become a kind of de-facto "other side of the argument" against geoengineering research, simply because geoengineering itself is kind of a fringe subject, so the media has no frame of reference to judge how outlandish something is.  Thus when discussion of geoengineering makes a leap into the mainstream (which I don't think it has yet), then the "chemtrail" talking points will also be automatically dragged alongside into that mainstream, and given a vastly disproportionate legitimacy.  

So for those of you who seek to promote geoengineering research, it would perhaps be unwise to dismiss the fringe opponents.  In the eyes of the media, geoengineering is fringe, so unfortunately you need to be able to effectively refute the chemtrail people in a way that's beyond simply dismissing them as crazy. 


Ken Caldeira

Feb 12, 2012, 11:25:07 AM2/12/12
to Mick West, David Keith, rob...@envsci.rutgers.edu, geoengineering
My guess is that my comments about mental instability of some of the ChemTrails folks is based on the narrow sub-population of ChemTrails believers that are more belligerent than average, and thus more willing than the average ChemTrail believer to bombard me with emails that make thinly veiled threats and wild leaps of assumption.

I can easily believe that the average ChemTrails believer is a well-meaning rational-as-anyone concerned citizen with false beliefs.


Mick's point is a good one about advocating geoengineering research already being seen as fringe, and that it is unrealistic to expect most people to be able to evaluate the relative merits of advocating geoengineering research vs. believing in ChemTrails.

Nearly every time I get into an ill-considered verbal spat, Lowell Wood reminds me that when two pigs are wrestling in the mud, it is difficult for onlookers to tell one from the other.

Is there any social science research on how unfounded conspiracy theories dissipate over time? With the Kennedy assassination, salience is reduced simply by the distance of time. With ChemTrails, there is reinforcement of salience every time a believer looks up and sees a contrail in the sky.
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