Re: Overarching Goals with the Geoengineering Subtropical Deserts Proposal

[Neil Farbstein]

Do you think it might be practical to spray water from the periphery
of the antarctic continent back onto it using pipelines and snow
making equipment? That could reverse the rising sea levels as heat
contained int eh seawater is transferred to the air.

On Nov 29, 8:10 pm, "Brennan J." <sunhydrosyst...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I thought I would post an overview of what I was trying to accomplish
> with the preliminary proposal on geoengineering subtropical deserts
> doc. My personal goal was to develop the system with the four
> following overarching goals in mind:
>
> I. The geoengineering model must be effectively integrated into a
> functional system that can counter the four major manifestations of
> global warming to varying degrees:
> (1)     Decreasing greenhouse gas emissions
> (2)     Reducing oceanic acidity (thank you Greg for your suggestions)
> (3)     Countering albedo effect losses
> (4)     Slowing rising sea levels
>
> II. The geoengineering model must maximize its synergy with the global
> socioeconomic/ political system within which it is going to be
> deployed because this is ultimately the deciding factor for its
> acceptance and implementation.
>
> III. The model must maximize its effectiveness in providing basic
> energy and material resources for an exponentially growing human
> population to 2100.
> (1)     Increase carbon-free energy sources
> (2)     Increase carbon-free water technologies and methodologies.
> (3)     Decrease greenhouse gases in agricultural, silvacultural and
> aquacultural  technologies and methodologies.
> (4)     Further promoting climatic stability.
>
> IV. Ultimately, the geoengineering model must be able to translate
> into an economically viable system that decreases the entropy of the
> biosphere.
>
> Regards,
>
> Brennan

[Neil Farbstein]

I'm sure it will be expensive but it might be worth doing a cost
benefit analysis. Since it can directly solve the biggest problem
caused by accelerating rates of greenhouse warming; rising sea levels
and the accompanying destruction it will cause.
White plastic sheets have their costs; especially the energy taken to
manufacture them. They will likely come apart from the extreme
temperatures in the arctic and antarctic and flakes will be blown away
making the entire thing temporary.

Nobody has commented on my idea of lowering the amount of heat
transferred to the arctic and subarctic regions by the gulf stream- by
seeding rain clouds over the gulf stream, off the eastern seaboard.
What's your opinion?

On Nov 29, 9:34 pm, "Brennan J." <sunhydrosyst...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Snow making equipment powered by wind energy in the Antarctic/Arctic
> might be feasible. Unfortunately, I don't think that any nation on
> earth has the financial capability to subsidize a project of this
> magnitude. Its probably more energy and time efficient to rapidly
> deploy white plastic sheeting especially over the critical permafrost
> zones in order to realize a quick return on the albedo effect. This
> would further promote additional snow and ice cover and delay a
> potentially catastrophic release of methane gas. Obviously, plastic
> sheeting most likely would run into environmental objections.
>
> -Brennan

> > > Brennan- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[Oliver Wingenter]

Dear Brennan,

Sounds like a good frame work. Sorry, I did not catch your last name.

Sioncerely,

Oliver Wingenter

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[Oliver Wingenter]

Dear Neil,

I wonder what the impact of salt from salt water would have on the freezing point depression of the Arctic ice? 

Sincerely,

Oliver

Neil Farbstein wrote:

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[Neil Farbstein]

It would melt the snow and raise its' melting point but if the heat is
released to the air as it is sprayed it will fall as snow and
separate salt crystals. The salt might cause early melting in the
spring making the whole ploy nonworkable.

> > For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering?hl=en.- Hide quoted text -

[John Nissen]

Hi Oliver, Neil,

Adding salt actually lowers the freezing/melting point.  (Herr Fahrenheit discovered you can only lower it so far, and set 0 degrees at that point.)  So I don't think it's a good idea to spray salt onto ice sheets - it would have a similar effect to putting salts on roads!

However, there are a number of rivers flowing into the Arctic ocean.  Could fresh water usefully be sprayed to fall as snow on dirty ice and on freezing ground, to increase their reflectivity?   Dust falling on snowball Earth is thought to have ended the snowball period [1].  Black carbon is no doubt causing some of the Arctic warming, though not as much as seems to be suggested here [2] or is it?

A possibility for saving permafrost is the "Pleistocene Park".  I'll start a new thread for that!

Cheers,

John

[1] http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20427365.300-early-snowball-earth-may-have-melted-to-a-mudball.html

[2] http://ecoworldly.com/2009/04/09/black-carbon-reductions-could-reverse-arctic-warming-within-weeks/