RE: The next NOAC meeting is Thurs 3rd June (Aus: Fri 4th, 6am):

[SALTER Stephen]

Hi All

 

Attached is a short note on marine cloud brightening. It started in response to a call from UK COP26 which had a 1000-word limit and no figures but was rejected y them.  After rejection I stretched it and added some figures. Their email now blocks submissions.  Perhaps they did not like to be told that zero is too much.

 

Stephen

 

From: Ron Baiman <rpba...@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 3, 2021 12:03 AM
To: SALTER Stephen <S.Sa...@ed.ac.uk>; geoengi...@googlegroups.com
Cc: Sev Clarke <sevc...@me.com>; Clive Elsworth <Cl...@endorphinsoftware.co.uk>; Franz Dietrich Oeste <oe...@gm-ingenieurbuero.com>; Renaud de RICHTER <renaud.d...@gmail.com>; Bru Pearce <b...@envisionationltd.com>; Dr Hugh Hunt <he...@cam.ac.uk>; TSIAMIS Andreas <A.Ts...@ed.ac.uk>; Wilson Hago <drwi...@gmail.com>; Armand Neukermans <arm...@sbcglobal.net>; Peter Wadhams <peter....@gmail.com>; Robert Tulip <rob...@rtulip.net>; John MacDonald <macdona...@mail.com>; Oswald Petersen <oswald....@hispeed.ch>; John Nissen <johnnis...@gmail.com>; Shaun D Fitzgerald <sd...@cam.ac.uk>; Brian von Herzen <br...@climatefoundation.org>; Eduardo Greaves <egreaves...@yahoo.com>; Andy Meacham <meac...@gmail.com>; Peter Fiekowsky <pfi...@gmail.com>; Rocio Herbert <rocioh...@gmail.com>; Susan Lee <susan...@gmail.com>; Daphne Wysham <dap...@methaneaction.org>; Maarten van Herpen <maa...@acacia-ii.com>; Berend van de Kraats <ber...@oceansx.nl>; Jon Shepard <jon.s...@globaldevincubator.org>; Dr Vyt Garnys <vyt.g...@cetec.com.au>; Russell Seitz <se...@post.harvard.edu>; Dr. Daniel Harrison <daniel....@sims.org.au>; Alan Gadian <al...@env.leeds.ac.uk>; Mark Stevenson <markste...@gmail.com>; Victor Smetacek <Victor....@awi.de>; Kevin Lister <kevin.li...@gmail.com>; Nancy Wood <nwoo...@gmail.com>; Daniel Kieve <dki...@gmail.com>; Lauren Bosche <lauren...@gmail.com>; Gwen <gwfr...@gmail.com>; Ted Altenberg <bo...@restoreourclimate.earth>; Douglas Grandt <answer...@me.com>; David S. Miller <da...@dotmiller.com>; Matthew Johnson <msj....@gmail.com>; Merve <m...@chem.ku.dk>; Jesper <bcp...@alumni.ku.dk>; Jesper <liis...@nbi.ku.dk>; Sir David King <d...@camkas.co.uk>; Philipp Thomas <philipp...@aequi-libria.com>; PattiMichelle <pattimic...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: The next NOAC meeting is Thurs 3rd June (Aus: Fri 4th, 6am):

 

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Stephen et al, 

 

In the event that you haven't seen this already,  it seems (from my economist/lay person perspective) that the 2019 NAS geoengineering report does a nice job of concisely summarizing the current state of existing research for the three example geoengineering methods that it focuses on (SAI, MCB and CCN):

https://www.nap.edu/read/25762/chapter/1#viii

SAI and MCB are covered on p. 38-49, I haven't gone through the CCN material. Figure 2.2.1 presents IPCC 2018 estimates for "Radiative forcing of climate 1790 - 2011" that includes current (largely anthropogenic I believe) aerosol cooling.  Figure 2.3 presents a summary of pressure, height, and latitude data on SAI and stratospheric ozone.  

 

Ron Baiman

 

The future can be hopeful, but we must move at lightning speed to make it so!

https://www.cpegonline.org/post/emergency-appeal-to-policy-makers-to-save-arctic-sea-ice-and-reverse-climate-change

https://www.cpegonline.org/post/arctic-sea-ice-traige-carbon-cycle-restoration-and-a-renewable-energy-and-materials-economy

 

On Sat, May 29, 2021 at 3:25 AM SALTER Stephen <S.Sa...@ed.ac.uk> wrote:

Hi All

 

Further to Sev’s email I thought that it might be useful to see how much salt is already being thrown up from the sea.  Below is the range of estimates for all sizes collected by Lewis and Schwartz plotted against the date of publication.  The wide scatter shows how difficult estimation is. The blue circle is the mean.  If you have a high resolution monitor you might be able to see the thicker black line between 1959 and 2002 is what would be released as 10 E-14 grams of salt from 1000 spray vessels work at fill power all the year.  That size is at the top of the gap in natural aerosol between accumulation and Aitken modes.

 

Stephen

 

 

Emeritus Professor of Engineering Design

School of Engineering

Mayfield Road

Edinburgh EH9 3DW

0131 650 5704

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBB6WtH_Ni8

 

 

 

 

 

From: Sev Clarke <sevc...@me.com>
Sent: Saturday, May 29, 2021 2:35 AM
To: Clive Elsworth <Cl...@EndorphinSoftware.co.uk>
Cc: Franz Dietrich Oeste <oe...@gm-ingenieurbuero.com>; Renaud de RICHTER <renaud.d...@gmail.com>; SALTER Stephen <S.Sa...@ed.ac.uk>; Bru Pearce <b...@envisionationltd.com>; Dr Hugh Hunt <he...@cam.ac.uk>; TSIAMIS Andreas <A.Ts...@ed.ac.uk>; Wilson Hago <drwi...@gmail.com>; Armand Neukermans <arm...@sbcglobal.net>; Peter Wadhams <peter....@gmail.com>; Robert Tulip <rob...@rtulip.net>; John MacDonald <macdona...@mail.com>; Oswald Petersen <oswald....@hispeed.ch>; John Nissen <johnnis...@gmail.com>; Shaun D Fitzgerald <sd...@cam.ac.uk>; Brian von Herzen <br...@climatefoundation.org>; Eduardo Greaves <egreaves...@yahoo.com>; Ron Baiman <rpba...@gmail.com>; Andy Meacham <meac...@gmail.com>; Peter Fiekowsky <pfi...@gmail.com>; Rocio Herbert <rocioh...@gmail.com>; Susan Lee <susan...@gmail.com>; Daphne Wysham <dap...@methaneaction.org>; Maarten van Herpen <maa...@acacia-ii.com>; Berend van de Kraats <ber...@oceansx.nl>; Jon Shepard <jon.s...@globaldevincubator.org>; Dr Vyt Garnys <vyt.g...@cetec.com.au>; Russell Seitz <se...@post.harvard.edu>; Dr. Daniel Harrison <daniel....@sims.org.au>; Alan Gadian <al...@env.leeds.ac.uk>; Mark Stevenson <markste...@gmail.com>; Victor Smetacek <Victor....@awi.de>; Kevin Lister <kevin.li...@gmail.com>; Nancy Wood <nwoo...@gmail.com>; Daniel Kieve <dki...@gmail.com>; Lauren Bosche <lauren...@gmail.com>; Gwen <gwfr...@gmail.com>; Ted Altenberg <bo...@restoreourclimate.earth>; Douglas Grandt <answer...@me.com>; David S. Miller <da...@dotmiller.com>; Matthew Johnson <msj....@gmail.com>; Merve <m...@chem.ku.dk>; Jesper <bcp...@alumni.ku.dk>; Jesper <liis...@nbi.ku.dk>; Sir David King <d...@camkas.co.uk>; Philipp Thomas <philipp...@aequi-libria.com>; PattiMichelle <pattimic...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: The next NOAC meeting is Thurs 3rd June (Aus: Fri 4th, 6am):

 

This email was sent to you by someone outside the University.

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Hi Folks,

 

The most recent update of the Modified Seatomiser concept and design is attached for your comment and collective improvement. 

Hugh and Shaun have some good news on MCB resourcing at the Centre for Climate Repair at Cambridge (CCRC).

Perhaps, we might also hear from Franz and Renaud regarding what they think of the possibility of using Seatomisers and Ice Shield wind turbines to deliver sublimated ferric chloride nanoparticles into the atmosphere, together with what effect these might have should they coat any nearby sea salt aerosols (SSA) resulting from Seatomiser or wave action.

 

 

Best wishes,

Sev

William S. Clarke    BA, BSc, (Melb) MBA (Stanford)

T: +613 5426 1330                 M: 0431 488 506

E: sevc...@me.com

Skype: willow7777777

P: PO Box 16, Mt Macedon, VIC 3441, Australia

Managing Director, Winwick Business Solutions Pty Ltd.

 

On 22 May 2021, at 8:17 pm, Clive Elsworth <Cl...@EndorphinSoftware.co.uk> wrote:

 

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The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in Scotland, with registration number SC005336. Is e buidheann carthannais a th’ ann an Oilthigh Dhùn Èideann, clàraichte an Alba, àireamh clàraidh SC005336.

[Adrian Hindes]

Hey Stephen,

Thanks for sharing the brief. It's unfortunate the COP didn't accept your submission, but I must admit it's not all too surprising. Although the work thus far on MCB is promising, you summarise one of the major issues fairly well yourself here:

"The best climate modellers give large caveats on their results and agreement between different models is not exact.  The climate physics problems require new ways of using computer climate models to get a region-by-region and season-by-season transfer-function of the climate system."

I guess although the research thus far is arguably quite promising, and your brief estimates are reasonably convincing, large institutions like the UN probably aren't going to consider MCB all that closely until substantially more research is done. Even then, it probably wouldn't get taken "seriously" by policymakers (much like SAI) until the IPCC starts paying more than passing remarks to it. The recent National Academies report is a promising sign, but I suspect we have a long way to go before such ideas find attentive ears in parliaments and UN assemblies.

Just gotta keep at it.

Cheers,

-Adrian