Re: Michael Mann - SIRIUS - geoengineering

[H simmens]

Good catch Doug. Smerconish to his credit is the only mainstream radio talk show host who regularly brings on climate scientists and alas it’s almost always Michael Mann.

Smerconish is usually deferential to Mann so I don’t expect much pushback when he excoriates Geo engineering.

I’ve got a friend who has a connection with Smerconish, so let me see if I can find a way to get him to bring on another establishment climate scientist next time - like Jim Hansen! 

Herb

Herb Simmens

Author A Climate Vocabulary of the Future

@herbsimmens

On Feb 14, 2023, at 8:00 PM, 'Doug Grandt' via Healthy Planet Action Coalition (HPAC) <healthy-planet-...@googlegroups.com> wrote:



This should be interesting … or infuriating 

Michael Mann posted the following on his Facebook page this afternoon 

Wednesday 11am (EST), 4pm (UK)

Thursday  3am (AEDT)

I'll be talking about geoengineering with the great Michael Smerconish, tomorrow (Wednesday) 11am ET, SiriusXM: 

Click LISTEN LIVE

You may have to get the App if you don’t already subscribe. I did … hope it works!!

Doug Grandt

Sent from my iPhone (audio texting)

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[James Hansen]

Not yet -- first will submit revised Pipeline paper soon -- clearer with some additional insight, IMHO, and hopefully more forthright w/o losing any co-author or reviewer - will be no holds barred in my book.

Jim Hansen

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Jim Hansen, Director

Climate Science, Awareness and Solutions Program

Columbia University Earth Institute

[H simmens]

Hi Jim,

I’m sure I speak for all of us in our support of your revised ‘and more forthright’ paper, and your ‘no holds barred’ book.  

Your courageous climate honesty is truly an inspiration. 

Herb

Herb Simmens

Author A Climate Vocabulary of the Future

@herbsimmens

On Feb 14, 2023, at 8:30 PM, James Hansen <jimeh...@gmail.com> wrote:



[Dr. Maiken Winter]

Absolutely! can´t wait to read it and tell people about it!

Maybe, hopefully, some will then finally understand that the activists in prison are NOT the people who should be there..

Best,

Maiken

Am 15.02.2023 um 02:46 schrieb H simmens:

 Hi Jim,

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/geoengineering/CA3BB58E-8DC9-42EC-ADAD-7D7A713D3E7B%40gmail.com.

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Dr. Maiken Winter
Bahnhofstr. 12
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08807 9280544

[H simmens]

For those who may have missed Michael Mann's conversation an hour ago, there was not surprisingly little new. He did clearly and unambiguously support more research into solar geo engineering as long as it does not involve field testing. He invoked the familiar bogeymen - adverse unintended consequences, termination shock and moral hazard as reasons why it should not be deployed. He did not distinguish between SAI and other methods. To Smerconish’s credit he did bring up mount Pinatubo and Mann acknowledged that it lowered temperatures.

There was absolutely no discussion as is typical of these conversations of the relative risks and benefits of solar geoengineering versus ERA/emission reductions alone.

By the way Smerconish is one of the very few talk programs with a large base of listeners that is down the middle politically. 

You may be able to listen to the conversation at the link below, though you may need to be an XM subscriber. The conversation starts at 11:05 am.

Herb



Thursday  3am (AEDT)

Click LISTEN LIVE

You may have to get the App if you don’t already subscribe. I did … hope it works!!

Doug Grandt

Sent from my iPhone (audio texting)

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[david....@carbon-cycle.co.uk]

How do you undertake meaningful development without field testing?

 

A useful comparison that was used to defeat a ban on using animals to train surgeons. It was done as an ad, “ Today the doctor will do life or death surgery on your daughter. Today is the first time he has operated in reality and the first time that he has carried this operation. Previously he would have learned using animals but this has been banned. Do you want this future?”

 

It is stupid to think that we can develop what is likely to be an essential technology without actual field trials.  And the idea that we will try it at scale with to testing or ramp up is not remotely creditable.

 

 

David Sevier

 

Carbon Cycle Limited

248 Sutton Common Road

Sutton, Surrey SM3 9PW

England

 

Tel 44 (0) 208 288 0128

www.carbon-cycle.co.uk

 

 

 

 

From: geoengi...@googlegroups.com <geoengi...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of H simmens
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2023 5:42 PM
Cc: hsim...@gmail.com; Doug Grandt <answer...@mac.com>; Planetary Restoration <planetary-...@googlegroups.com>; healthy-planet-action-coalition <healthy-planet-...@googlegroups.com>; geoengineering <geoengi...@googlegroups.com>; John Nissen <johnnis...@gmail.com>; Robert Tulip <rob...@rtulip.net>; Robert Chris <robert...@gmail.com>; Rebecca personal em <rebe...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [geo] Michael Mann - SIRIUS - geoengineering

 

For those who may have missed Michael Mann's conversation an hour ago, there was not surprisingly little new. He did clearly and unambiguously support more research into solar geo engineering as long as it does not involve field testing. He invoked the familiar bogeymen - adverse unintended consequences, termination shock and moral hazard as reasons why it should not be deployed. He did not distinguish between SAI and other methods. To Smerconish’s credit he did bring up mount Pinatubo and Mann acknowledged that it lowered temperatures.

 

There was absolutely no discussion as is typical of these conversations of the relative risks and benefits of solar geoengineering versus ERA/emission reductions alone.

 

By the way Smerconish is one of the very few talk programs with a large base of listeners that is down the middle politically. 

 

You may be able to listen to the conversation at the link below, though you may need to be an XM subscriber. The conversation starts at 11:05 am.

 

SiriusXM Player: Online Radio, Music, Sports, News, Podcasts & Talk player.siriusxm.com

 

Herb

 



Thursday  3am (AEDT)

 

POTUS Politics siriusxm.com

 

Click LISTEN LIVE

You may have to get the App if you don’t already subscribe. I did … hope it works!!

 

Doug Grandt

 

Sent from my iPhone (audio texting)

 

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Jim Hansen, Director

Climate Science, Awareness and Solutions Program

Columbia University Earth Institute

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[Adrian Hindes]

Mann's analogy of the need to continue doing solar geoengineering being like getting addicted to methadone seemed like a very unnecessarily polemic example. Mann's inability/unwillingness to note the significant differences between weather modification and solar geoengineering was also not helpful.

But yeah agree with Herb. Decent-ish/meh surface level overview of the topic (within the constraints of a 20 min podcast). It'd be good if some of the experts in this group and the community could get more guest appearances on these sorts of podcasts to improve the public understanding of the state of geoengineering research.

[Robert Chris]

Dear Prof Hansen

I have previously corresponded with Dan but not directly with you.

I note that you are working on a final revision of your Warming in the Pipeline paper.  I regard this as one of the most significant pieces of climate research to have emerged for many years and is, or at least should be, a game changer in policymaking terms.

May I be so bold as to ask you to consider two revisions.  First, could you separate out the effect of different GHGs, in particular CO2 and CH4.  The reason for this request is that many are arguing that because of its high GWP and short residence, atmospheric methane should be reduced by either or both reducing emissions and enhanced atmospheric oxidation.  It would be helpful to understand the extent to which reducing one GHG against another would accelerate reductions in surface temperature, if at all.  Might the system feedbacks compensate for the different RF effects of different GHGs resulting in no differential cooling effect?

Secondly, I and many others have found the policy conclusions in the paper a tangential diversion from the science to the extent that they undermine the significance of the science.  Might the paper not have more impact if it stuck to the science and you issued a separate commentary that addressed its policy implications.

Regards

Dr Robert Chris

[James Hansen]

Hi Robert,

Thanks for suggestions -- I will respond to these -- must finish science revision -- there is a new fundamental twist, that makes the story more complete -- I'm wordsmithing and reorganizing the paper to improve clarity, while using as few words as consistent with that objective.

Best, Jim

[david....@carbon-cycle.co.uk]

In your coming paper, do your calculations assume that further emissions are going to occur, or is the quite concerning predicted temperature rise from just the current gases in the atmosphere (which would mean things are likely to be even worse)? Equally is there any discussion and prediction about the uneven distribution of the temperature rise in northern and more southerly regions. These would be expected to experience a lot more than the average rise. I have not been able to look at your preprint.

 

 

David Sevier

 

Carbon Cycle Limited

248 Sutton Common Road

Sutton, Surrey SM3 9PW

England

 

Tel 44 (0) 208 288 0128

 

 

 



Thursday  3am (AEDT)

 

POTUS Politics siriusxm.com

 

Click LISTEN LIVE

You may have to get the App if you don’t already subscribe. I did … hope it works!!

 

Doug Grandt

 

Sent from my iPhone (audio texting)

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Jim Hansen, Director

Climate Science, Awareness and Solutions Program

Columbia University Earth Institute

 

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Jim Hansen, Director

Climate Science, Awareness and Solutions Program

Columbia University Earth Institute

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