Need your help for developing my dodecahedron dome home kits

[Hugh]

You see I own http://www.7thavendevelopment.com that will soon be
http://www.domeinabox.com. I have been involved with domes for over a
quarter of a century after spending two years with the right hand man
to Bucky Fuller, Marshall Thurber. I'm a serial and parallel
entrepreneur that has had many businesses but now I'm developing a
dome manufacturing business to fulfill my mission and vision for my
non-profit - 7,000,000 dodecahedron dome homes for the homeless around
the world. I will be manufacturing the domes at Tellico Plains, TN
where there unemployment rate is 20 plus percent. I will have access
to CAD equipment as the place that I'm building the dome kits is where
the AtticTrak is manufactured that is sold at Home Depot.

You see I learned to build the dodecahedron dome from a guy that had
built 7 dome homes. He actually met Bucky! I offered to give him $200
for every dome that I sold through my company if he would share the
specs for making the struts and hubs for the dodecahedron he builds.
He agreed back then but now that I'm starting to roll out a REAL dome
operation all over the world with also http://peacedomes.blogspot.com
on 1/1/2010 he now all of sudden wants to meet my partners and pick
their brains. I don't get good vibes from that meeting and shared that
with my partner.

The dodecahedron dome is not patented as far as I know. I'm a former
investigative reporter for Post Newsweek TV. Now innovations might be
patented but that is it. His dome parts are color coded. Big deal.

I need the specs for the sizes of the struts and hubs for say a 32
footer which will be my most marketable size for affordable housing. I
can build the dome you see in the video for $40,410 complete!

Does any one` know how to figure those sizes so that we can program
the CAD equipment? The struts are 2X6s and the hubs are 3/4"plywood.
The dome is connected together with wooden dowels and a rubber mallet.

I have found a young 17 year old go getter that I have named my CDO -
Chief Design Officer. His Mom is my graphics designer. I want him to
learn and will be sending Emmet to this site too.

Thanks,
Hugh Simpson

[TaffGoch]

On Jul 28, 12:03 am, Hugh <hughmsimp...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Does any one` know how to figure those sizes so that we can program
> the CAD equipment? The struts are 2X6s and the hubs are 3/4"plywood.
> The dome is connected together with wooden dowels and a rubber mallet.

Hugh,

The specs for strut lengths aren't a problem. I looked at the videos at your website, and see that the dome is a 4-frequency, class-II division of an icosahedron. In fact, I've modeled this before. It's one of the domes included in this model:

http://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehouse/details?mid=5eab88bc25babd07efed69d6cb3a4e43

I've attached an image of the ground-truncation comparable to your dome.

 

I have also attached an image of another wood-strut dome, showing ventilaton "scallop-cuts." One of the primary historic failures of domes is mold in the walls, due to condensation moisture. Conventional house-building methods provide for prevention of moisture build-up in the walls, but most dome construction does not provide for it. I've read horror stories of contractors trying to fix the problem, years after initial construction. You must provide an escape route for moisture, or your asking for trouble (and potential lawsuits,) down the road. Heating/cooling cycles produce a lot of moisture, and it can saturate insulation in enclosed wall/roof spaces, if provisions for escape are not provided in the design. Vapor barriers help, but that's only a part of the design. Consideration of air/moisture transport must also be included.

___________

 

I'd be happy to help with the strut specs. SketchUp can be used to produce the design of each strut, including lengths and angles for the end cuts. I presume that you're using 2x6 lumber. I don't want to start on modeling until you confirm this, as well as plywood-hub thickness and diameter. I'd also have to know the diameter of the dome frame, measured from the outside face of the lumber struts. I may need additional info, but will ask when I run into a road-block.

 

Regards,

Taff

[TaffGoch]

An depiction of what can be done with SketchUp...

 

[TaffGoch]

Hugh,

 

Just a note -- I've seen the attached hub before. It allows the edge of the plywood hub to "seat" tightly against the "bottom" of the square cut in the strut.

 

I've also seen variations of hub placement; on the outer "faces" of the struts, or on the inside (or both.) Seating the hub in slots in the stuts seems to be the most frequent, favored choice.

 

Taf

 

[TaffGoch]

Hugh,

 

My calculations for the triangular divisions shows that the bottom tier of vertices do not lie flat on the ground plane. This is confirmed by image frames from the videos.

 

Do you recall how this was addressed in the completion of the foundation? It's going to have to be addressed in some manner.

 

Either additional custom struts (longer/shorter) must be introduced, or the foundation "sill" must be constructed with high and low spots. What's your choice?

 

Taff

[TaffGoch]

Hugh,

 

This appears to be the triangulation homologous to the dome in the videos (4 different strut lengths.)

 

I can see why the originator referred to it as a "dodecahedron" division (purple struts.)

 

[TaffGoch]

Hugh,

 

Here are the strut lengths, relative to the radius of the "unity" sphere (1.0; measured from the sphere center to each vertex.)

 

From this data, a geodesic sphere of any size can be modeled, by multiplying/scaling by the desired radius of the dome to be built.

 

Taff

[TaffGoch]

On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 3:40 PM, Hugh Simpson <hughms...@gmail.com> wrote:

I also am VERY open to creating the SIMPLEST dome style possible. I'm not married to the former dome. What keeps it SAFE and COST EFFECTIVE is more important to me.

Hugh,

 

If you're not married to the demo dome assembly concept, you might consider not having hubs, at all!

 

Since you're going to have a manufacturing plant, you could pre-manufacture entire panels. That way, all angles and dimensions are precisely controlled, using your own quality control program. Sheathing is glued to machine-guided stud-triangle assemblies.

 

This is the concept employed by a competitor, "Good Karma Domes." Attached are some photos. (Note the corner color-coding, commonly employed.)

 

All the customer/contractor has to do is bolt together the panels, through pre-drilled holes in the stud edges -- No misalignments or gaps -- No "stick-building" or field measuring/cutting of plywood panels. Many contractors also add glue or insulation "chinking" to the studs, before bolting. The customer receives a stack of panels, nuts-and-bolts, and an assembly diagram. No on-site cutting or waste. Assembly goes REAL quick.

 

Since the panel assemblies are pre-manufactured, you control the waste, which can be recycled, or burned to produce heat/electricity for your factory.

 

Something to think about...

 

Taff

[TaffGoch]

I didn't initially notice that the second photo shows thin foam insulation strips applied to a few of the panel edges. This foam "chinking" prevents any insulation gaps or drafts.

 

I suspect that interstitial stud spacing is relatively inconsequential, as sprayed-on insulation has become so prevalent. Only building codes will control the spacing between these studs.

 

Taff

[TaffGoch]

Hugh,

 

If you like the pre-manufactured panel concept, you need to consider the requirements for the angles engineered into each panel. Note that the "edges" of each panel are not 90-degrees to the sheathing. (Well, it is on the inside, but not the outer edge.) Images attached. These angles are also apparent in the stacked-panels photos I attached to my previous posting.

 

I suspect that this works best with 2x4s, rather than 2x6s. Much of a 2x6 would be cut away during manufacture, depending, of course, on the severity of the dihedral angle between panels. I also suspect that any strength lost by not using 2x6s is minor, compared to the strength and integrity provided by a glued-and-screwed, pre-manufactured panel.

 

Be sure to include this engineering requirement into your consideration and business-planning for the feasibility of manufacturing such panels.

[TaffGoch]

No, readers, I'm not "talking to myself." Hugh has been emailing me
directly.

I've left out business and proprietary conversations, but have posted
responses that may be of help to other geodesic dreamers/planners/
modelers/builders.

One email involved patents and possible infringement, regarding the
pre-manufacture/production of triangular panels. Here's a pertinent
URL:
http://www.google.com/patents?as_q=geodesic+panel&num=100

You can easily search for patents, using Googles "Advanced Patent
Search":
http://www.google.com/advanced_patent_search?num=100

Lots of geodesic patents involve hubs and edge-connectors, but I can't
find any that apply to panels, alone. (Let me know if you find one!)

Taff
(Really, I'm not crazy...)

[Hugh Simpson]

I will vouch that Taff is FAR from crazy! He has been an IMMENSE help to us! This guy KNOWS his stuff!

Thanks again Taff!

Hugh

[TaffGoch]

Hugh,

 

I noted, in one of the images posted on your website, that hubs are getting "twisted' during assembly. (Image attached.)

 

While this can be straightened before applying sheathing, it introduces errors when trying to cut the sheathing, if you're cutting multiple triangles that are supposed to be duplicates. Small errors add up.

 

It's an even worse problem if the frame is not going to be sheathed, but simply covered with fabric or thin-mil plastic.

 

The hub can be modified, along with one strut per hub, to ensure proper angles. (Second image.) This is not an uncommon solution -- I've seen it on metal-disk hubs for conduit frames. I'm sure that other means can be devised, as well, to keep the hub disk "straight."

[TaffGoch]

Hugh,

 

I've been wondering why you refer to three strut lengths, when my calculations show that it can only be built with four.

 

If you look at my strut-length-calculation results, you'll see that the blue and green stuts are very close in length. (Attached image.) If you compromise, replacing the two lengths with one (averaging them,) some dome vertices will be "pulled inwards" by about 1/8", and others pushed out by the same amount. Considering wood shrinkage, and other variables introduced by "stick building" and site-skinning the dome, this divergence becomes practically insignificant (and acceptable.)

 

I have to conclude that such "fudging" was incorporated by the original designer.

[TaffGoch]

On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 3:35 PM, Hugh Simpson <hughms...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi, Taff! That is probably so. I remember only three colors for struts - blue, red and green. I will look again and see if I'm missing one.

I'm sure your recollection is correct, and that only three unique struts were used. If I were stick-building a dome, that's what I'd do.

___________

 

I was going through my digital image library, and found three photos (I know not from where) that appear to be of the exact same construction as the demonstration dome (right down to a twisted hub):

 

[dick.fi...@gmail.com]

Hi Taff

Bucky calls the tendency to twist at the hubs turbining.

http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/s07/p6400.html

Dick

[TaffGoch]

Bucky was so good at coining new words and/or usage. I like his "trim-tab," with all his implications of its use.

 

(Isn't "tensegrity" one of his?)

[Hugh Simpson]

Yes, both were his coining and also Earthship if I remember correctly.

[Dick Fischbeck]

Beyond Bucky's propensity to name things, the phenomenon of twisting hubs has been know for a while, that's all.

See also:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3574/3330220100_8b472c8608.jpg

For example, the hubs/vertexes in a tensegrity cannot twist!

On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 5:43 PM, TaffGoch <taff...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Dick Fischbeck]

Spaceship Earth

[TaffGoch]

Hugh identified the b&w photos as being the same dome depicted at the 7th Haven website, and provided a larger version:

[Dick Fischbeck]

A Davis South dome, right?

Concrete.

http://www.monolithic.com/

Why not just use the inflatable bag for a form then? Why bother with triangles?

[Dick Fischbeck]

David South, I mean.

[TaffGoch]

Nope, it's reportedly covered in an elastomer coating, and painted. (Do-it-yourself project.)

____________

 

The proposed domes are likely to be covered with "Grancrete," which can also be done, do-it-yourself. While it can more easily be applied with "shot-crete" equipment, it's not mandatory.

 

The purported qualities of Grancrete are interesting, and I'm definitely interested in following its future:

http://www.grancrete.net/

[TaffGoch]

Additional "found" pictures of the subject dome (or parts, thereof):

 

[TaffGoch]

Patent # 4422267 could be restricting, as far as panel manufacture/connection is concerned:

http://www.google.com/patents/about?id=sY4xAAAAEBAJ

___________________

 

I agree that a decision needs to be made at the outset, as to whether "stick-building" or panels are to be pursued. (One first, with the other to be added later?)