Take a look at my new 1993 George Longstaff tricycle...

[bai...@gmail.com]

I don't visit this group much (an intro a year or so ago here went unreplied, so suppose this is a more local group - I was in Alaska, now in the UP so still rather far out in more than a few ways).

But I am a fan of British cycling (small c), esp. 1920s-80s, and have a few. 

This is my recently-acquired and for a while sought upright trike, of which you can see more at:

http://rjl.us/velo/longstaff.htm

I'm also building at the moment - a brand new Lee Cooper-built Stanforth Kibo:

http://rjl.us/velo/kibo.htm

There are some others, English and otherwise, that can be found on same website.

I'm a member of two established English groups: the Tricycle Association and the Rough Stuff Fellowship, too - but no other cycle groups anywhere! 

After studying up on trikes and seeking one for over a year -- and now finally riding one, I'm surprised there aren't more trikers outside (or inside) the UK! It's a gas, and good exercise besides!

Robert, 

Ishpeming, Upper Peninsula, Lake Superior

[Peter Jourdain]

Tally-Ho, Robert ----

I've corresponded with you previously via classicrendezvous.com.  I, too, have a British trike (a 1950s Bertrand) and at one time belonged to the Tricycle Association, but I have to say that I don't ride my trike at all, really. It is a left-side drive only, and the rear frame loop which encompasses the freewheel is too small to accept a modern cassette and two-wheel drive Trykit conversion axle, which would make riding on the right side of the road much easier. I find that with the left-side drive when I ride on the right side of the road it pushes me down the camber into the shoulder. Very hard to control, for me, anyway, though some are masters at it. I am sentimentally attached to my trike, but it just isn't practical for me. The late George Longstaff, who built your trike, made great machines, however, and his shop still does, and yours looks very nice indeed. I would someday like to get a two-wheel drive touring trike which I can actually easily ride. I own one of the later two-wheel bicycle frames which George Longstaff constructed, an expedition touring frame, which last year I built up and brought to the Gentleman Cyclists' All-British Cycling Event in the Twin Cities.

Below is a photo taken by one of our list members, Alan Lloyd, of my trike a few years back at the Heartland Velo show in Madison, Wisconsin.

You'll find that this group of Gentlemen Cyclists, while quite cordial, is centered around three-speed sport and roadster bicycles, and does not have many owners of the trident. Perhaps that is why you did not receive much response. The list has also been pretty quiet of late, but I'm hoping your post sparks some response. The list is really great when it is hopping!

Kind regards,

Peter

 

I am one of those zealots who would have a special corner in Westminster Abbey for the honoured bones of the men who brought to perfection this slender whippet thing of steel and rubber that carries a man far and fast, by his own glad effort, on the open road, and takes him away from his cares as nothing else can. 

--- Twells Brex

---

From: "bai...@gmail.com" <bai...@gmail.com>
To: Gentleman Cyclist <gentlema...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2017 9:47 PM
Subject: [Gentleman Cyclist] Take a look at my new 1993 George Longstaff tricycle...

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[Ian Lindridge]

What "Wrong Way" says......I get lost in serious shop talk as I am, at best, merely a serious "user" of bicycles. I am also rather utilitarian in vocabulary compared to Sirs Jourdain and STO Jon Sharratt (as a youngster I shared my summers with 2 uncles, veterans of many years in the British and Canadian navies, and this has influenced my vocabulary tho' not in a polished manner). That may explain why I did not welcome you in your earlier post.

I find the subject of tricycles interesting however. I lack stability in movement due to low vision and a narrow field of vision. I lose track of where I am and my relative position in my immediate environment and 3 wheels would be safer than 2. Question is: how stable are these upright trikes? I have a 1973 Sears adult tricycle with a Sturmey Archer 3 speed (attached photos) that is exciting to ride while cornering......it is easy to tip when cornering at speed...rather takes the fun out of things....

How easy are these large trikes to ride on rolling or hilly terrain? The 3 Speed Tour? Win the ABCE Gravity Race? Are they rare? And the availability of parts? I think I am more 'inclined' to a modern recumbent trike......

Ian Lindridge

Cottage Grove Minnesota

ps: I also have a Workmans Shimano hub 3 speed trike I have built into a lowrider trike. It is unfortunately good eye candy but a killer to ride......

​

On Tue, Apr 11, 2017 at 10:21 PM, 'Peter Jourdain' via Gentleman Cyclist <gentlema...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Tally-Ho, Robert ----

I've corresponded with you previously via classicrendezvous.com.  I, too, have a British trike (a 1950s Bertrand) and at one time belonged to the Tricycle Association, but I have to say that I don't ride my trike at all, really. It is a left-side drive only, and the rear frame loop which encompasses the freewheel is too small to accept a modern cassette and two-wheel drive Trykit conversion axle, which would make riding on the right side of the road much easier. I find that with the left-side drive when I ride on the right side of the road it pushes me down the camber into the shoulder. Very hard to control, for me, anyway, though some are masters at it. I am sentimentally attached to my trike, but it just isn't practical for me. The late George Longstaff, who built your trike, made great machines, however, and his shop still does, and yours looks very nice indeed. I would someday like to get a two-wheel drive touring trike which I can actually easily ride. I own one of the later two-wheel bicycle frames which George Longstaff constructed, an expedition touring frame, which last year I built up and brought to the Gentleman Cyclists' All-British Cycling Event in the Twin Cities.

Below is a photo taken by one of our list members, Alan Lloyd, of my trike a few years back at the Heartland Velo show in Madison, Wisconsin.

You'll find that this group of Gentlemen Cyclists, while quite cordial, is centered around three-speed sport and roadster bicycles, and does not have many owners of the trident. Perhaps that is why you did not receive much response. The list has also been pretty quiet of late, but I'm hoping your post sparks some response. The list is really great when it is hopping!

Kind regards,

Peter

 

I am one of those zealots who would have a special corner in Westminster Abbey for the honoured bones of the men who brought to perfection this slender whippet thing of steel and rubber that carries a man far and fast, by his own glad effort, on the open road, and takes him away from his cares as nothing else can. 

--- Twells Brex

---

From: "bai...@gmail.com" <bai...@gmail.com>
To: Gentleman Cyclist <gentlemancyclist@googlegroups.com>

Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2017 9:47 PM
Subject: [Gentleman Cyclist] Take a look at my new 1993 George Longstaff tricycle...

I don't visit this group much (an intro a year or so ago here went unreplied, so suppose this is a more local group - I was in Alaska, now in the UP so still rather far out in more than a few ways).

But I am a fan of British cycling (small c), esp. 1920s-80s, and have a few. 

This is my recently-acquired and for a while sought upright trike, of which you can see more at:

http://rjl.us/velo/longstaff.htm

I'm also building at the moment - a brand new Lee Cooper-built Stanforth Kibo:

http://rjl.us/velo/kibo.htm

There are some others, English and otherwise, that can be found on same website.

I'm a member of two established English groups: the Tricycle Association and the Rough Stuff Fellowship, too - but no other cycle groups anywhere! 

After studying up on trikes and seeking one for over a year -- and now finally riding one, I'm surprised there aren't more trikers outside (or inside) the UK! It's a gas, and good exercise besides!

Robert, 

Ishpeming, Upper Peninsula, Lake Superior

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[Peter Jourdain]

Hello, Sir Ian, Lord of Kent  ---

Thank you for the kind words. My experience with an upright trike is that they are not at all stable, and require a skilled rider. Some people take more naturally to it than others. I did not take to it at all, even on smooth, level pavement. And when one adds even a slight slope either up or downhill or to the right or left, it complicates matters dramatically.

Again, I'm speaking from the perspective of someone who owns a single-wheel drive racing machine with a fairly narrow rear wheel spread of I think 28 inches, outside to outside. My trike is also a tall machine, and I myself have a high center of gravity, all significant factors in adding to the difficulty of control.

However, if one has a wider wheelbase machine (as are many , a lower center of gravity, and two-wheel drive, the machine becomes easier to control and more stable. The Longstaff trikes tended to be touring machines with wider wheelbases.

All this being said, some people just are better trike riders than others and have less of a learning curve. Here is a link to a video (admittedly not great quality) of a fellow riding a British racing trike in Colorado. Notice how on the turns you must throw your weight off the side of the machine, like riding a windsurfer. No doubt fun if you can pull it off, but I couldn't manage what this guy is doing on that terrain without some serious practice. Notice, too, the relatively high center of gravity and narrow wheelbase of the machine.

English Racing Trike

English Racing Trike In this video I'm riding my Ken Rogers tricycle down Lefthand Canyon from Jamestown, Colorado. It was in the...

Here's a trike ridden by a bit less-experienced rider...

Racing Trike

Racing Trike

Cheerio,

WW

 

I am one of those zealots who would have a special corner in Westminster Abbey for the honoured bones of the men who brought to perfection this slender whippet thing of steel and rubber that carries a man far and fast, by his own glad effort, on the open road, and takes him away from his cares as nothing else can. 

--- Twells Brex

---

From: Ian Lindridge <ian.li...@gmail.com>
To: gentlema...@googlegroups.com
Cc: "bai...@gmail.com" <bai...@gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2017 12:04 PM
Subject: Re: [Gentleman Cyclist] Take a look at my new 1993 George Longstaff tricycle...

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to gentlemancycli...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to gentlema...@googlegroups.com.

[bai...@gmail.com]

Hi again, thanks for the commentary, etc. Well I don't need a cheerleading squad or anything, but far as I know this is the only group (in Ausland) in praise of (mid-century or otherwise) British leisure cycling. And I think there's nothing more English than an upright trike! Mr. Wrongway (I need to get myself a cycling pen name too) saw my post on the CR group back when I was trying despeately to find one for same in americaland; ultimately the few leads I got off that (and one here!) dried up, but this Longstaff is I think the best possible outcome (save for maybe a new custom Trykit). Unfortunately, I couldn't show it off on the CR group because tends to get chastised for 'non correct' content, and this trike has (my only cycle with this) cables that don't come out the tops of the levers! Anyway, so I had to show it off somewhere, hence you all are the victims.

On riding (-this $#@! goggle group nonsense, can't for the life of me get it to maintain a single typeface/colour-), keep in mind I am a brand new triker (only a few weeks!). One thing I've heard said is that it's easy to learn to ride a tricycle -- unless you've ridden a bicycle! So I started slow (and 'studied' via der Veb for a year before), spending my first day turning circles, etc. Thought I'd keep to those circles for the first few rides, but I got the hankerin' for riding on some straight distances, so last weekend I took it down the (mostly) paved (partially gravel) trail here, and that was a blast! Gave me a chance to experience how important it is to match balance to camber. Thus far I've not fallen off, crashed, etc. but take turns fairly carefully.  

Here's my 'report' to the upright triking group on first ride and impressions:

http://on3wheels.myfastforum.org/sutra13275.php&highlight=#13275

and a little more:

http://on3wheels.myfastforum.org/sutra13281.php#13281

One thing (if I didn't mention it in those posts) is that it takes a lot of arm control steering and riding over kerb ramps (not my attempts at British here), lumpy pavement, etc. And riding at even slow speed over a lawn is very weird; despite my earlier lusting for the legendary Longstaff Yeti (look that up) I'm pretty sure I'll not be getting into 'mountain triking' (and there is no such thing now I understand why)!

But I like it, and think it's a good compliment to the 'falling down machines' (bicycles). I've never ridden a recumbent, so can't say for sure, but I think I'd be a little uneasy being so low to the ground (and visibility). But upright trikes put you right up into the sky! Did I mention it's fun?!

I'm definitely glad I've got the 2wd, too (actually it's got a double freewheel modification that powers whichever wheel has the resistance, one at a time). Did you all know that the differential, as in RWD automobiles, was invented for the tricycle first?!

And on videos, the one that first made me exclaim in amazement (WOW!!, so loud I startled my Cat!) is this one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29WkASo6dX4

'aplomb' is the proper word for these guys cornering. 

(here's a list of more:

http://on3wheels.myfastforum.org/about759.html&highlight=video )

By the way, the 'ride' of a racing trike must be (I imagine) as different from (and easier to ride/faster) the Sears in the photos as equivalent bikes - though no problem with slow and comfy! On a side note, back when I was about 12 my 'gang', all poor kids like me riding various hodge-podge bikes, came into a Schwinn trike in the style of the Sears; the 'fun' thing to do was ride on two wheels (front and one rear), but the guy who had it wouldn't let us because it bent the wheels. Looking back on that it does seem criminal... i just worry lifting one of my trike wheels to oil the freewheels & bearings! (plenty tough though I am sure).

On other British cycles, I don't have a 3-speed (but had a Robin Hood in the early 80s when they seemed to be around plenty and cheap, maybe not that back in the beautiful Midwest (from Alaska) I'll run into one. I do have a couple Woodrups, the new Stanforth (which as it had horizontal dropouts I hope to eventually try with a (Taiwan) SA 5-speed hub), and a Steve Goff on order. 

[j...@gentlemancyclist.com]

Gents,

It's about time I chimed in on this _very_ interesting subject. Many know I have an early 90s Windcheetah but few know I have one of the original Speedys from the early 80s. Sold in kit form, these were Burrow's first offerings to the public. What is still interesting (and perhaps disappointing) is that it is still in kit form and confined to a box in the Catacombs. A bit intimidating, this, since the castings are rough lumps of aluminium and the instruction book is a full inch thick.

If you can imagine a pedal powered go-kart, then you have an idea of what a Windcheetah is like. I find it very comfortable and unlike anything else I have ridden. You find yourself searching out curvy roads.

Now, back to traditional tricycles; I have a knee-banger Higgins (not J.C.) bolt-on trike conversion. Another project for another day but the problem with assembly would be "Lovely, but where do it put it?" For now, it lives under the work bench and snags my knee from time to time. It seems anxious. Here is a photo of one bolted to the back of a Falcon.

STO

[Mark Stonich]

On Apr 11, 2017, at 10:21 PM, 'Peter Jourdain' via Gentleman Cyclist <gentlema...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

 I find that with the left-side drive when I ride on the right side of the road it pushes me down the camber into the shoulder. Very hard to control, for me, anyway, though some are masters at it. I am sentimentally attached to my trike, but it just isn't practical for me.

Peter, 

Left wheel drive is common on delta recumbent trikes. The properly designed ones have minimal trail, 1/2” to 3/4”, and show no tendency to veer down the crown of the road. I would want minimal trail on any trike, upright or recumbent - LWD, 2WD or RWD - tadpole or delta

This may sound bizarre, but a slightly smaller wheel on the left would tilt you into the camber of the road. Self aligning torque of the (now slightly tilted WRT the road surface) front contact patch, plus a little more fork rake should clear up any handling issues due to “Wrongwheel” drive.

I built my 2WD trike tilted 1.5º to the left to compensate for road crown. As a retired roadway designer, it seemed a no-brainer. 

 Mark Stonich 612-824-2372 (home)  

  BikeSmith Design & Fabrication 612-710-9593 (work & cell)
   5349 Elliot Ave S. Minneapolis, MN 55417 USA
     http://bikesmithdesign.com
       https://www.flickr.com/photos/bikesmith/  (Mostly Wildlife)

[Peter Jourdain]

Dear STO---

Interesting, your Speedys kit. More secrets hidden in your Aladdin's cave!

I remember when you road your Windchetatah at the ABCE. It is so low to the ground I recall fearing for your life when you left for home amidst the motorized mechanisms of murder at the end of Sunday's festivities. And without a flag, I believe!

Yes, Higgins made conversion axles, modeled on the earlier and quite popular Holdsworth ones. The famous British time trialist Ray Booty had one laced to his Raleigh.

Holdsworth Trike conversion set

Holdsworth Trike conversion set By Martin Vincent Holdsworth Trike conversion set

WW

 

I am one of those zealots who would have a special corner in Westminster Abbey for the honoured bones of the men who brought to perfection this slender whippet thing of steel and rubber that carries a man far and fast, by his own glad effort, on the open road, and takes him away from his cares as nothing else can. 

--- Twells Brex

---

From: "j...@gentlemancyclist.com" <j...@gentlemancyclist.com>
To: gentlema...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2017 2:14 PM
Subject: RE: [Gentleman Cyclist] Take a look at my new 1993 George Longstaff tricycle...

[Peter Jourdain]

Well, Robert, that nickname wasn't self-generated, it was earned. It happened when, departing on my first Lake Pepin 3-Speed Tour, I realized I'd forgotten my sunglasses at the car and returned to fetch them. Having accomplished that task and heading back out on the road, everyone I'd been following were already out of sight. So I did the natural thing, which was to keep cycling in the direction I'd been headed, not realizing that early on there was an impending turn and a bridge crossing to the Wisconsin side of the Mississippi. I kept on straight on the Minnesota side, and became suspicious when, after much hard riding, I never caught a soul in the group. And the infamous "Bay City Hill" never reared its ugly head.

I ended up in Wabasha well before the others, only to learn what I'd suspected when it was too late --- that I'd gone "the wrong way." Alan Lloyd designed a fun graphic of my misadventures, our famous Shirt Tail Organizer gave his blessing, and the "legend" was born. And, for good or ill, I suppose I shall bear the moniker with me to the final Sunday run in the lanes in the sky. So I guess what I am saying is that, while you can concoct a self-styled nom-de-plume, the best kinds are not those with which you stick yourself but those that are stunk unto you! Thus I encourage you in the presence of others in this group to do something equally outrageous or goofy (or even brilliant and astounding) and wait patiently for the bestowal of the proper appellation. Believe me, with this group of Merry Pranksters, it will come!

I look forward to reading and viewing your links. In the meantime, here's a photo of the late David Duffield, in 1948 or so, at speed.

Cheerio,

"Wrongway"

 

I am one of those zealots who would have a special corner in Westminster Abbey for the honoured bones of the men who brought to perfection this slender whippet thing of steel and rubber that carries a man far and fast, by his own glad effort, on the open road, and takes him away from his cares as nothing else can. 

--- Twells Brex

---

From: "bai...@gmail.com" <bai...@gmail.com>
To: Gentleman Cyclist <gentlema...@googlegroups.com>
Cc: pjou...@yahoo.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2017 2:06 PM

Subject: Re: [Gentleman Cyclist] Take a look at my new 1993 George Longstaff tricycle...

[Paulos, Richard G]

I had a Schwinn Town & Country Tri-wheeler that was wicked for heading into the ditch. The road in front of my house is a rounded chip seal with ditches and that trike would head there intermediately if you didn't steer and lean to compensate. Pedaling or not made no difference on that 1-wheel drive model. I put on longer cranks and lower handle bars to help lower the center of gravity to make it more rideable. It found a new home in a manufactured home park where all the roads are dead flat.

I have a PPV (People Powered Vehicle circa 1970s) that is 1 wheel drive but the one-wheel drive doesn't seem to affect the steering at all. You really notice the 1 wheel drive when making hard turns. One direction and your cranks speed way up, turn the other direction and the cranks just stop. The rear track on that is quite wide as it sits 2 side-by-side in bucket seats.

Another 3 wheeler in the works. A Worksman Mover undergoing a resto-mod.

An Worksman factory trike in need of a superman to pedal that mass.

I donated my Worksman Front Loader U after rebuilding it in to a mobile book mobile to the local friends of the Library.

The spare PPV was sold off years ago.





________________________________________
From: gentlema...@googlegroups.com <gentlema...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Mark Stonich <ma...@bikesmithdesign.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2017 2:45 PM
To: gentlema...@googlegroups.com
Cc: bai...@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [Gentleman Cyclist] Take a look at my new 1993 George Longstaff tricycle...

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[Mark Stonich]

On Apr 12, 2017, at 12:04 PM, Ian Lindridge <ian.li...@gmail.com> wrote:

How easy are these large trikes to ride on rolling or hilly terrain? The 3 Speed Tour? Win the ABCE Gravity Race? 

Ian, 

If you were to enter one of these upright trikes in the ABCE Gravity Challenge and Pastry Joust, thereafter it would be known as “The Blind Lord of Kent Memorial Downhill Test”. 

Think about that turn at the bottom of the hill. And that you would never enter this event without the intention to outcoast us all. So braking before the turn would be an impossibility for you.

[Peter Jourdain]

Fascinating, Mark. Thank you for the technical info. Should I ever have a trike built for me I shall hire you!

WW

 

I am one of those zealots who would have a special corner in Westminster Abbey for the honoured bones of the men who brought to perfection this slender whippet thing of steel and rubber that carries a man far and fast, by his own glad effort, on the open road, and takes him away from his cares as nothing else can. 

--- Twells Brex

---

From: Mark Stonich <ma...@bikesmithdesign.com>

To: gentlema...@googlegroups.com
Cc: "bai...@gmail.com" <bai...@gmail.com>

Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2017 2:45 PM

Subject: Re: [Gentleman Cyclist] Take a look at my new 1993 George Longstaff tricycle...

[Mark Stonich]

On Apr 12, 2017, at 1:56 PM, bai...@gmail.com wrote:

 I've never ridden a recumbent, so can't say for sure, but I think I'd be a little uneasy being so low to the ground (and visibility).

Robert,

I’ve never liked the very low recumbents. But on any recumbent with a reasonable seat height, 18+, being seen isn’t an issue. They are unusual enough that if you are in a drivers field of view (and they aren’t texting) you will be their center of attention. Not so much here anymore, but especially someplace like the UP where they aren’t common. 

BTW Love your bikes. Wouldn’t want an upright trike, at least not one with such a short wheelbase. But the Stanford is right up my alley. How long are the chainstays? 

Checked out your Trek 850 too. I have a MUCH modified ’83(?) 950 with Tange Prestige tubing. One of my current projects is making an Allroads/Enduro bike out of a somewhat later 950 with a lugged TrueTemper frame. Sadly a little heavier and without the 48.5 cm chainstays of the earlier ones. 

[Mark Stonich]

On Apr 12, 2017, at 1:56 PM, bai...@gmail.com wrote:

I do have a couple Woodrups, the new Stanforth (which as it had horizontal dropouts I hope to eventually try with a (Taiwan) SA 5-speed hub), and a Steve Goff on order. 

Robert,

Unless you can get one the new S50 series of rotary shift 5 speeds, none of the single cable 5 speeds are reliable, British or Taiwanese. 

After the S50, most reliable is probably the S5, 1966-74. But with your forged rear dropouts, the longest S5 axles may not be long enough.