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When your front wheel slides out, your teeth meet the pavement far quicker than any human can react. You typically wake up in a hospital room 3 days later wondering how you got there. When you back wheel slides out, you get a bruise on your rear and feel stupid but you remember.
I've used most versions of the vintage Sturmey Archer's 3 speed with coaster brake hubs. None are great. One put me in an emergency room. Another left me carrying the bike when the brake overheated and seized up the hub. The best reason for them is fewer cables on the bike.
rick
________________________________________
From: gentlema...@googlegroups.com <gentlema...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of John Johnston III <jjohns...@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2020 3:30 PM
To: gentlema...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [External] Re: [Gentleman Cyclist] New AWC
Why would you ever use the rear brake unless you had a front brake failure anyway ?
- John
On Thu, Jun 18, 2020, 3:12 PM te...@usfamily.net<mailto:te...@usfamily.net> <te...@usfamily.net<mailto:te...@usfamily.net>> wrote:
I was hoping someone would post who has tried it. Sheldon says it will physically work with manipulation of the drop outs.
That said, my experience with the older SA coaster brake three speeds is they have been reliable, under the women I was around. My Wife, who wouldn’t think of standing to pedal, and rarely goes fast enough to actually need the breaks, did just fine on one. She is 115 pounds, soaking wet. Put it under my son, the opposite kind of rider, and I would expect trouble. A lot of old girls bikes had those hubs, and when I find them in my role as bicycle carrion consumer, the dang things always seem to work, inspite of what everyone tells me.
I commend you for thinking about the total picture, with your kid. The bike my kid is on for the English festivity’s stands out like an F16 in a group of Saber jets, he can stop, it is light, and he has five gears in 27” aluminum rims to use. Some thinking and some luck went into it, and it is what he will ride to these events as long as his welfare is my problem.
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I still practice it, motorcycle, bicycle, and, autonomously, through a proportioning valve, in my cars.
Ted
As a child I had to take bicycle safety class to get my AAA reflective sticker for my bicycle. We were required to skid to pass the test! I was so light and weak I couldn't do that. The auto industry has spent untold billions trying to keep cars from skidding. I recall Mercedes was first to market, then GM came up with a far cheaper implementation. I once read through all the city ordinances in Iowa and many had identically worded code requiring bicycles with brakes capable of skidding both wheels. This was a result of some canned law subscription service for cities intended to ban fixies. IMO, it's impossible to skid a front wheel on a normal bicycle on dry pavement. I'd really like to see those city council persons demonstrate it.
I volunteer at the local bike coop. I see many riding with no brakes at all. Kids on bmx bikes, the homeless riding junky bikes and the gas motor kit on a bicycle guys who removed the brakes because they were in the way.
Rick
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From: gentlema...@googlegroups.com <gentlema...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of John Johnston III <jjohns...@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2020 8:37 PM
To: gentlema...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [External] Re: [Gentleman Cyclist] New AWC
Hi Eric -
I switch all my bicycles to front brake on the right side. That reduces the chances of grabbing a handful of clutch when on a motorcycle.
And the standardization of basic motorcycle control locations suggests that there is a benefit to the familiar.
Also many years ago in motorcycle school, it was drilled into us that we should cover the front brake. This decreases time-to-brake application.
Covering the brake also serves as a reminder that there is a brake lever there.
Do what one can to maximize the chance of a more positive outcome during a subconscious emergency braking situation.
- John
On Thu, Jun 18, 2020, 7:44 PM Iron Horse <ironhors...@gmail.com<mailto:ironhors...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Hi John and all.
I think I may have finally figured out how to do this from a cell phone. Here's to hoping...
I believe you are correct, save for one thing. I believe you are drawing your conclusions from being familiar with your bike. One bike. I will offer another perspective. I have many bikes. Some have hand brakes, some coaster brakes and some that have both. Some even have no brakes at all (replica Hi-wheel and two 1890's direct drive safety bikes). Because of my varied inventory, I have to always be conscious of what I am riding. You cannot have a panic stop on a 48" wheeled bike. Braking is almost instinctual if you ride the same bike every day. If I ride my coaster braked 3 speed for a week, and I suddenly decide to ride the dl-1, imagine my suprise when I stomp on the pedal only to have the crank spin around and clock me on the shin. Or grabbing the handlbars and having nothing happening when I switch to my Columbia. It has happened! I submit that braking will always have to be conscientious for those who own more than one style of bike.
As for braking styles, I tend to brake with the rear leading and adding the front as more braking is necessary, and when stopping quickly, both brakes are applied simultaneously. The only thing I did differently with one of my wifes Raleighs, was to add another hand brake to the rear on her bike which came stock with front caliper and rear coaster brakes, just for peace of mind.
Eric
9k8
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Interesting front fork. What brand/age of cycle is this?
George in Maryland
On June 19, 2020 at 12:33 PM Luckyrob <ral...@shaw.ca> wrote:
Building a bike now with modern S/A coaster brake hub no front brake. I used the back wheel on a commuter year round in Winnipeg and it was fine. In the winter used a front brake as said coasters on poor roads will put you on the ground but on ice I was usually going slow anyway. They freeze up at -30 C (-22 F) and are useless. The coasters are fun to make skids I have been doing it for almost 50 years now and won't grow up. Tires are cheap anyway compared to the fun factor. Attached a picture of new front end to show why no front brake. :)
On Sunday, June 14, 2020 at 2:53:43 PM UTC-5, gna wrote:WIll a new SA AWC fit in an old Raleigh? The OLD is listed at 116mm, so it's close. My daughter likes coaster brakes. Her Space Rider had an S3C, and I got a TCW IV for her 19" Dunelt. But now she's tall enough to Ride a 21" Raleigh, and I thought I would lace up some new wheels for her, using Sun CR-18s. I'm not really a fan of the TCW, so I thought I would buy a new AWC and lace that up. Has anyone tried it?
Gary--
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rick
________________________________________
From: gentlema...@googlegroups.com <gentlema...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Luckyrob <ral...@shaw.ca>
Sent: Friday, June 19, 2020 12:34 PM
To: Gentleman Cyclist
Subject: [External] Re: [Gentleman Cyclist] Re: New AWC
[1936.jpg]
It is a 1936 CCM Flyte the first year of the 1936-1940 production. In Canada it is the Holly Grail for us, $47 in 1936. They patent the design and built the bike out of "Aircraft steel" as the story goes. It is really light though. Hoping to have it painted (if ever I decide on color) for ABCE this fall if it is safe to cross USA border. Rob
On Friday, June 19, 2020 at 12:04:11 PM UTC-5, GEORGE albaugh wrote:
Interesting front fork. What brand/age of cycle is this?
George in Maryland
On June 19, 2020 at 12:33 PM Luckyrob <ral...@shaw.ca<javascript:>> wrote:
[IMG_9001.jpg]
Building a bike now with modern S/A coaster brake hub no front brake. I used the back wheel on a commuter year round in Winnipeg and it was fine. In the winter used a front brake as said coasters on poor roads will put you on the ground but on ice I was usually going slow anyway. They freeze up at -30 C (-22 F) and are useless. The coasters are fun to make skids I have been doing it for almost 50 years now and won't grow up. Tires are cheap anyway compared to the fun factor. Attached a picture of new front end to show why no front brake. :)
On Sunday, June 14, 2020 at 2:53:43 PM UTC-5, gna wrote:
WIll a new SA AWC fit in an old Raleigh? The OLD is listed at 116mm, so it's close. My daughter likes coaster brakes. Her Space Rider had an S3C, and I got a TCW IV for her 19" Dunelt. But now she's tall enough to Ride a 21" Raleigh, and I thought I would lace up some new wheels for her, using Sun CR-18s. I'm not really a fan of the TCW, so I thought I would buy a new AWC and lace that up. Has anyone tried it?
Gary
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As to later quality. By 1980 the importing of SA hubs to the USA had come to a screaming halt. Raleigh licensed their name to Huffy and the Huffy/Raleigh USA stopped importing real Raleighs and made their own or imported them from Asia. The bike boom was over and mountain bikes were taking over. There just weren't SA hub equipped bikes on the market here so there is very limited experience with that era.
I did repair a 1980 AW hub on an English made Raleigh Sports a couple years ago and I was disappointed to find the clutch was made of stamped sheet metal instead of cast and machined like they were forever. The edges were uneven and rounded off (not by wear). The shifting certainly suffered from that. My guess is they outsourced the production of that part.
I have a 1974 S3C that locked up on me. The circlip that holds the brake assembly in place dislodged. It was a very feeble clip. At the time I looked up the diagrams and found SA subbed a cheaper part. It was back to normal the following year. I replaced the clip with a sturdier version and it's been fine since.
My point on those two hubs is that SA made minor and often undocumented changes to save a buck and some didn't work out. Trying to pinpoint exact years to avoid would be nearly impossible. Raleigh was known to be a penny pinching company and wouldn't spend the money to improve products. SA suffered from that. The NIB was a prime case. They had a fix but wouldn't fix it. Columbia paid extra for a no-nib hub. Sun Race fixed it for good.
Although the latest version, the S-RC3 is not made in England, it's probably the best of the 3 speed with coaster brake hubs. The earlier hubs can work but each has issues. The TCW was famous for losing it's brakes completely if the cable wasn't adjusted right or the operator mis-shifted (nib problem). The S3C had the braking effort going through the gears so the braking power depended on which gear you were in at the time.
in age order:
TCW
TCW II
TCW III
TCW IV
S3C
AWC
AWC II
S-RC3 (Sun Race Sturmey Archer version with alloy shell)
rick
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From: gentlema...@googlegroups.com <gentlema...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of gna <gnar...@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2020 12:58 PM
To: Gentleman Cyclist
Subject: [External] [Gentleman Cyclist] Re: New AWC
Gary
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