FW: Falling Outward (was: Words, definitions, and Many "Worlds")
Philip Benjamin
everyth...@googlegroups.com <everyth...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Alan Grayson Thursday, February 4, 2021 5:12 AM")
[Alan Grayson <agrayson2000 .com>]
“However if the sphere is primarily made of empty space and empty space contains energy then things would be different because unlike an expanding sphere made of sand the density of mass /energy inside an expanding sphere of empty space would not decrease with expansion,…”
[Philip Benjamin]
Quantum vacuum is a very common logical fallacy. First of all “quantum” is the least measure of anything that does or can exist.Anything
is a THING not NOTHING. If nothing ever existed, nothing CAN all that exist today! Ex nihilo nihil fit (Parmenides). Energy is SOMETHING. Quantum vacuum technically means the smallest unit of a vacuum, which is meaningless if vacuum is NOTHING.
1 . Where did this vacuum energy come from? 2 . Does vacuum energy possess aseity? 3. What is MORE reasonable—aseity of dead vacuum energy or aseity of LIFE? 4. Nothing can SELF-CREATE—nothing can BE before it can BE. That is a logical contradiction. In fact, it is against all laws of logic. 5 .How do you account for life in any of the Many Worlds? Is there Many World Chemistries? 5 . Why equate WAVE_LIKENESS with WAVINESS—quantum particle always remains particle, it may BEHAVE wavelike.
Philip Benjamin
> On the energy issue, what really bothers me about your stance on this issue, is NOT that you can't offer a possible model or explanation for where the energy comes from to create those other worlds, but that you don't even recognize that such an issue exists. Others in this MWI cult behave similarly. AG
There is no energy issue, we've known from General Relativity as far back as 1915 that the conservation of energy does not hold on the cosmic level, not if completely empty space retains some residual energy and General Relativity allows for this. The gravitational potential energy of a sphere of particles of matter like sand is alway negative, this is true in Newtonian Physics and remains true in General Relativity, so the gravitational potential energy of a sphere of particles of mass-energy M and radius R is PE= (-G*M^2)/R where G is the gravitational constant.
Is this the GR expression for PE, which you earlier stated is different from Newtonian physics? Now you want to assume rest mass exists in your sphere containing negative vacuum energy. AG
It’s important to note that this is negative energy so the larger R gets the closer the potential energy gets to zero, and if it was at infinity it would be precisely zero. if the sphere expands and is made of sand which is normal matter then M stays the same but R increases so the gravitational potential energy becomes less negative and more positive, and that means it's uphill; It would take an external expenditure of work to do that, so if you let the sphere go to rest it would fall inward as you'd expect.
However if the sphere is primarily made of empty space and empty space contains energy then things would be different because unlike an expanding sphere made of sand the density of mass /energy inside an expanding sphere of empty space would not decrease with expansion, so when the sphere expands although R increases M^2 increases even more,
In an expanding sphere which is assumed to contain rest mass, why does M or M^2 increase as R increases? AG
so the overall gravitational potential energy becomes larger and thus more negative. So if the vacuum contains negative energy as this sphere increases in size it becomes more negative and that means expansion is downhill, and thus no work is used but instead work is produced. So in any universe in which vacuum energy dominates it will expand, it will fall outward and accelerate. Regardless of if there are many worlds or only one, most think vacuum energy is what makes our universe accelerate. You might ask if the sphere gets larger what makes it get larger, where did that mass/energy come from? The answer is It comes from the gravitational energy released as the sphere of vacuum energy falls outward. So at any point in this process if you add up all the positive kinetic energy and energy locked up in matter (remember E=MC^2) of the universe and all the negative potential gravitational energy of the universe you always get precisely zero.
John K Clark
Basically, I don't understand your argument (which doesn't mean it's wrong). For starters, where does the mass come from, which contributes to the rest energy? TIA, AG
Oh, you assume it exists. AG .
Rosemary Rock-Evans
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Philip Benjamin
[Philip Benjamin]
Rosie wrote: “define empty space”. There is nothing empty in quantum physics. Everything is teaming with “energy”, and energy according to “quantum mystics” is NOTHING!! The entire “CopenPagan” Interpretation is based on the logical fallacy of wave-likeness = waviness. Politicians and journalists (all mostly non-scientists who mostly hate the rigors of that discipline) are easily hoodwinked by funds-starving science researchers by un-evidential trans-speciation, fallacious duality of wave likeness = waviness, spiritism etc. Mosty of of them never heard of Augustinian transformation of consciousness, or the “The Two Great Awakenings” or Wesleyan- Whitfield Revivals (that rescued England from anarchist French Revolution) or the Reformation-Puritanism effects all of which shaped and separated the Western Civilization from the rest of a kundalini/reptilian civilized –learned world of un-awakened pagan consciousness.
Philip Benjamin
Notes: “Dalai Lama’s reincarnation included in Congress’ $900 billion COVID relief bill. BY ROSS NERVIG AND LILLY GREENBLATT, JANUARY 5,
https://exploringyourmind.com/the-dalai-lama-on-quantum-physics-and-spirituality/ “In this article, discover the common principles that quantum physics and [Buddhist] spirituality share!”. https://www.nj.com/news/2011/05/deepak_chopra_relates_quantum.html “Deepak Chopra relates quantum physics to Buddhist teachings in Newark peace summit talk Updated Mar 31, 2019; Posted May 13, 2011”
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/buddhism-cosmology-and-ev_b_1286165. “ John Stanley Director, Ecological Buddhism David Loy, Zen Teacher Buddhism, Cosmology and Evolution 02/26/2012 09:59 pm ET Updated Apr 27, 2012 https://www.huffpost.com/entry/buddhism-cosmology-and-ev_b_1286165”
Philip Benjamin
'Rosemary Rock-Evans' via Consciousness-Online <general...@googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: [Consciousness-Online] FW: Falling Outward (was: Words, definitions, and Many "Worlds")
define empty space
------ Original Message ------ "Philip Benjamin" <medin...@hotmail.com>: "general...@googlegroups.com"
Thursday, 4 Feb, 21 At 14:54 Subject: [Consciousness-Online] FW: Falling Outward (was: Words, definitions, and Many "Worlds")
Roland Cichowski
Defining a point?
Brilliant Rosemary.
SPACE: can/could be defined as a point which has no external boundaries.
It has the potential for expansion in any direction.
Normally we experience it from
three dimensions but it has a
fourth which we call time.
Empty: can be defined as
possessing no contents it is void
of anything.
So: can a point have no contents and if it should expand what would be within it?
To take up a perspective from within a point you can conjecture an infinite expansion. For a point has no boundary.
But if it has no content (empty) it is no more than a point and not even you can be within it.
To take up a perspective
external to a point then that
perspective suggests a space within which there is a point. It
is not empty. The space
has a point within it.
To place yourself (consciousness) within a point creates the impression of emptiness extending infinitely all around you. This impression is within your consciousness. Your consciousness is within the point. This means that the point is not empty it contains your consciousness. This is what you experience when you conjecture or imagine empty space.
However, it can only be conjectured when you are present within that space so such a space is never truly empty it contains your consciousness.
Thus a point becomes (a point of consciousness) consciousness.
It suggests that only
consciousness exists. All is mind!
Within that conscious point all of phenomenal experience is created.
Empty your mind and you will
find you are a point of
conscious awareness filling or extending yourself into empty
space. We tend to
find this an intolerable existence, especially for eternity. We
therefore fill
it.
Empty space can be said to exist but only as a concept within your mind.
How creative is the conscious mind.
All the best Roland
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Rosemary Rock-Evans
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Rosemary Rock-Evans
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGYlJyLr1EE&t=618s
rosie
------ Original Message ------
From: "Roland Cichowski" <rola...@gmail.com>
To: "'Rosemary Rock-Evans' via Consciousness-Online" <general...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, 7 Feb, 21 At 02:05
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Philip Benjamin
everyth...@googlegroups.com Subject: RE: Falling Outward (was: Words, definitions, and Many "Worlds")
[Philip Benjamin]
If photons never rest, they never have a rest mass either! It is only an assumption that photons have rest mas = 0. A mass at an indeterminate decimal place of RELATIVELY negligible value is almost the same as zero rest mass. The gravitational ‘lensing’ of light has thus a “commonsensical” explanation! Photons are not merely little packets of light energy. They are corpuscles (of strange matter) with RELATIVELY negligible mass, and thus they do have momentum. A change in momentum yields a force, enabling light to physically interact with matter (distortions of space and time thus become non sequitur).
Marxism is not merely politics. It is claimed to be “science” and has falsely much to say about ontology. So, the acade-media Marxism became unquestionable. It has the final say on ultimate reality, for which Relativity is often relied upon. Acade-media Marxism absurdly ignores the fact that Relativity has an ABSOLUTE—the in vacuo speed of light.
Philip Benjamin
From:
everyth...@googlegroups.com <everyth...@googlegroups.com>
On Behalf Of John Clark
Sent: Sunday, February 7, 2021 4:19 AM
To: everyth...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Falling Outward (was: Words, definitions, and Many "Worlds")
On Sat, Feb 6, 2021 at 4:54 PM Philip Benjamin <medin...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> When and where do photons rest?
Photons never rest, and they ALWAYS move at exactly the same speed for everyone all the time.
> What theory or experiment forbids them not to have mass
Einstein's Relativity, both General and Special. A particle with a rest mass can NEVER move at the speed of light, a particle with a zero rest mass can ONLY move at the speed of light, or perhaps the speed of causation would be a better name for that cosmic speed limit.
> No wonder most if not all the academia has become Marxist Progressives.
What the hell does Marxism have to do with the price of eggs? Somethings have absolutely nothing to do with politics and the rest massive particles is one of them.
John K Clark See what's on my new list at Extropolis
.
Roland Cichowski
The analogy to the idea of consciousness being the property that expands space is of course a good one. I fear though, although this may be obvious to some, many will still manage to miss the point. Otherwise I wonder why we are not a lot further along with the exploration of consciousness than we appear to be.
I'm not sure what the difficulty is except that we seem to be persistently captivated by the rug (in the symbolism) or in other words the reality of what we might call our daily existence.
Hence if we understand the issue from the perspective of the symbology of weaving we become absorbed in the process of weaving a rug. I sometimes wonder why many who seek to understand what consciousness is fail to perceive what such symbology is telling them. Understanding the art of symbology is of course an ancient one and it is possible that we are losing the ability to appreciate its power.
Someone involved in understanding what quantum reality is with all its concepts can be likened to being the weaver weaving the rug. However like the weaver they are obsessed with the work of art they are constructing. You can perceive the weft as representing the string of particles which they must pass through the warp strings the shuttle is the transference of energy back and forth and those who seek the bigger picture of the quantum reality are in effect out there trying to determine the nature of the loom itself and how it is supporting all these warp and weft threads. Some are involved in the overall design of the rug. They are trying to place the correct colors of knots between the wefts and on the correct warp strings in order to create the complete design. They want to be able to see the design and complete it in order to bring it into reality. Who conceives the original design, well that is another issue.
I do not decry this effort because of course there is some value in it. We create the rugs to exist in or on. Those who seek how we go about this in a scientific way are uncovering the way the rug is formed. This is important because the process of building our realities would appear to be that a reality has to follow certain rules.
Our realities must seem to make sense to us or they and we would not function properly. Many years working closely with people with developmental disabilities taught me this. I owe some of my understanding to them.
We need to understand the laws of physics and the process of cause and effect and logic. If we don’t what is going on around us becomes an even more confusing process and we lessen the means we might have to operate within it. This is what many of those who fail to develop normally experience. Put simply they create disorganised and chaotic rugs and fail to make sense of them at all.
Therefore to all those who become too embroiled in the construction of the rug (physical reality) I would say this is not going to give you the knowledge of who or what the weaver (consciousness) is. Of course the weaver represents us or to be more precise our individual consciousness. If you consider the situation presented by the weaver and their creation of a rug you can perceive the problem of consciousness more easily.
At least, originally the interest of most on this list was to solve the problem of consciousness. I would suggest that no matter how deeply you examine the rug and how it is constructed you are unlikely to solve the problem of consciousness. Your awareness and the nature of the consciousness you seek is always going to be residing in the weaver not the rug. It is you that is conscious not the world around you, which is just a projection of consciousness.
With this in mind; for me the symbology of the weaver is showing us we need to understand more about the nature of the weaver. When you think about it we seem to know very little about this weaver or in other words consciousness. In attempting to define the nature of empty space we can place our self in the position of consciousness or the weaver. Just as the weaver is creating (expanding) the rug so consciousness would seem to be the force which is expanding or creating space. It is a space within, which a rug can exist.
I don’t know if this explains how or why consciousness does this apart from that it would seem to have the desire to exist. Perhaps to exist it needs something to exist in and expands the sensation of space around it, don’t you think.
All the best. Roland
P.S. hope you are managing to get your eyes treated the situation being what it is with Covid. Any hint of glaucoma is considered a medical emergency so I hope they still have the resources to treat you over there.
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Rosemary Rock-Evans
Even using the word 'quanta' is a sort of get-out clause, just a name for an effect or group of effects. Like the five blind men who tried to describe an elephant. Each one had a different perspective [because they were feeling a different part of the elephant] and even that individual view was not complete, because none of them could actually see it.
And as they are discovering with the virus there is the possiblity that more than one pathogen can create identical effects [symptoms]. Is it a virus or is it a parasite? Given that both ivermectin and hydrochloroquine [both anti-parasitics] actually cure the symptoms, maybe the guilty party is really a parasite [the curse of blood groups A and B, rather than the Os] and the virus is an innocent by-stander or worse a helpful agent we are now vaccinating against [a truly terrible prospect].
In all disciplines we are treading on very dodgy ground as we don't perceive Reality [as the video explained] .
And most people can only grasp the Immersive Virtual Reality the perception system creates for them as it is, without asking them to attempt to work out what actually exists outside this immersive virtual reality - it is a massively difficult job and needs imagination and lateral thinking, an ability to think outside the box of the intellect, rather than being a clever clogs [chuckle].
And just to give you another pat on the back, I am very pleased you were able to identify that the weaver is the key to the problem of consciousness. So far in all the years I have been in the group, no one seems to have quite grasped this fact.
best wishes
rosie
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Philip Benjamin
[Philip Benjamin]
Questions:
1 . Property of what? Of space? Of matter? Will not “…the idea of consciousness being the property that expands space” deprive “consciousness” of its ontological nature?
2 . Quantum reality? Isn’t it the reality of “quantum (least measurable, quantifiable unit) particles”—PARTICLES nonetheless?
3 . Isn’t the PHYSICAL reality that of “ Wave-likeness of real particles” and not the imaginary waviness and the imaginary creation of
artificial puzzles and paradoxes?
4 . “… Many years working closely with people with developmental disabilities taught me this”. Addiction to alcohol, drugs,
sex, occultism, sorcery, gambling etc. often have verisimilar consequences as developmental disabilities. Some of the pioneers
of quantum physics were addicts, otherwise psychiatrist (& a sorcerer) Carl Jung would not have been a contributing
“quantum pioneer”.
5 . “ Understanding of cause and effect and logic”, “individual consciousness seems to have the desire to exist”, “ to exist it
needs something to exist in”, “empty space expanding”? These are questions of aseity, causality, origin, meaning (desire), telos
etc. which do not belong to the realm of any objective science.
6 . In fact all these issues do not deal with the question of “what is consciousness?”, rather they deal with “what an individual is
conscious of?” There is the world out there and the world within? An expanding empty space is an oxymoron. So also self-
consciousness is another oxymoron when “self” is not real. If self is real and invisible the only candidate available for science today
is bio dark-matter (of negligible mass) with its bio dark-matter chemistry, cocreating the resonant “dark” and “light” twins from the
moment of conception.
Closed thinking is tunnel vision. It is an established hierarchical, inflexible task based path. Here one does not think about much more than getting routines done. A more spatial, tolerant and relaxed open mode thinking will require breaking ranks with the establishment swamp.
Philip Benjamin
From: general...@googlegroups.com <general...@googlegroups.com>
On Behalf Of Roland Cichowski
Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2021 6:34 AM
To: 'Rosemary Rock-Evans' via Consciousness-Online <general...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [Consciousness-Online] FW: Falling Outward (was: Words, definitions, and Many "Worlds")
…….
The analogy to the idea of consciousness being the property that expands space
is of course a good one. ……
. ……. Someone involved in understanding what quantum reality is with all its concepts can be likened to being the weaver weaving the rug. ……. the transference of energy back and forth and those who seek the bigger picture of the quantum reality are in effect out there trying to determine the nature of the loom itself and how it is supporting all these warp and weft threads. …… They want to be able to see the design and complete it in order to bring it into reality. Who conceives the original design, well that is another issue………
Our realities must seem to make sense to us or they and we would not function properly.
Many years working closely with people with developmental disabilities taught me this. I owe some of my understanding to them.
We need to understand the laws of physics and the process of
cause and effect and logic. If we don’t what is going on around us becomes an even more confusing process and we lessen the means we might have to operate within it. This is what many of those who fail to develop normally experience. Put simply they
create disorganised and chaotic rugs and fail to make sense of them at all.
In being so focused on the problem of weaving a rug (physical reality) we miss the obvious and that is that no matter how beautiful the rug is that is being woven is; it is not where consciousness is. Consciousness has to reside in the weaver not the rug and few take the time to examine who and what the weaver is. ……… Therefore to all those who become too embroiled in the construction of the rug (physical reality) I would say this is not going to give you the knowledge of who or what the weaver (consciousness) is. Of course the weaver represents us or to be more precise our individual consciousness. If you consider the situation presented by the weaver and their creation of a rug you can perceive the problem of consciousness more easily.
At least, originally the interest of most on this list was to solve the problem of consciousness…… Your awareness and the nature of the consciousness you seek is always going to be residing in the weaver not the rug. It is you that is conscious not the world around you, which is just a projection of consciousness………. In attempting to define the nature of empty space we can place our self in the position of consciousness or the weaver. Just as the weaver is creating (expanding) the rug so consciousness would seem to be the force which is expanding or creating space. It is a space within, which a rug can exist.
I don’t know if this explains how or why consciousness does this apart from that it would seem to have the desire to exist. Perhaps to exist it needs something to exist in and expands the sensation of space around it, don’t you think.
All the best. Roland
------ Original Message ------ From: "Roland Cichowski" <rolandshh@ > To: "'Rosemary Rock-Evans' via Consciousness-Online" <general...@googlegroups.com> Sent: Sunday, 7 Feb, 21 At 02:05 Subject: Re: [Consciousness-Online] FW: Falling Outward (was: Words, definitions, and Many "Worlds")
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Philip Benjamin
everyth...@googlegroups.com Subject: RE: [Consciousness-Online] FW: Falling Outward (was: Words, definitions, and Many "Worlds")
Rosemary Rock-Evans
etc. which do not belong to the realm of any objective science"
But we went over this a good year ago. Firstly, we do not perceive Reality [see video], second all our instruments and measuring devices are based on this personal Immersive virtual reality we are given and third none of this can be perceived anyway.
To make any claims of objectivity would be silly - dishonest in some ways.
And thus I agree with you wholeheartedly when you say
"Closed
thinking is tunnel vision. It is an established hierarchical,
inflexible task based path. ..... A more spatial, tolerant and relaxed open mode
thinking will require breaking ranks with the establishment swamp"
To which one can only say "hear, hear"
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Philip Benjamin
From: Philip Benjamin Sent: Friday, February 12, 2021 9:11 AM To: Roland Cichowski rolandshh@ Subject: RE: [Consciousness-Online] FW: Falling Outward (was: Words, definitions, and Many "Worlds")
[Philip Benjamin]
A quick reply is in order for now.” [Quantum particle’s] existence requires an observer/consciousness (your consciousness)”. That is the CopenPagan Interpretation. Reality— for to be REAL-- either exists or it does not, whether anybody looks at it or perceives it is immaterial. Nothingness could never have been a REALIY. There is of course the possibility of “close sensory approximation”. The mistake is to call Schrodinger Equation a “wave equation” it is a “wavelike equation”. Wave-likeness is not equal to waviness. Absurd/illogical solutions of this equation cannot be accepted, if an artificial paradox such as wave-likeness = waviness is accepted as reality. A particle is a REALITY. A wave-form is another REALITY. Particles do not transform into waves without an external source of very high power!! One physicist once commented that a trained “sage” can see particle as wave in the slit experiment!
The statement that “Addictions often have verisimilar consequences as developmental disabilities” does not mean that the two are the same. There are certain consequences to certain behaviors and beliefs which are verisimilar to developmental disabilities. Imaginations and hallucinations about REALITIES could very well be “addiction” related, addiction to “occultism” or psychedelics for example.
Philip Benjamin
From: Roland Cichowski <rolandshh@ > Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2021 8:43 PM To: Philip Benjamin <medin...@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: [Consciousness-Online] FW: Falling Outward (was: Words, definitions, and Many "Worlds")
Philip lots of questions long answer, apologies…
Questions:
1 . Property of what? Of space? Of matter? Will not “…the idea of consciousness being the property that expands space” deprive “consciousness” of its ontological nature?
Answer: I don’t think so. If you are looking at the issue of what all things/experiences have in common. Then it could be said that consciousness as ‘being’ is common to them all. Try experiencing anything when you are unconscious. So, the idea that consciousness expands space is consistent with the idea that it is consciousness itself which is responsible for generating everything that you can be aware of. This includes your sense of space and time. Try experiencing reality without time. Such a reality is frozen; doesn’t go anywhere; can’t move forward or backwards. Likewise you will have trouble experiencing anything without space. Without some sort of space there is nothing for anything to be experienced in; nothing for anything to exist in.
2 . Quantum reality? Isn’t it the reality of “quantum (least measurable, quantifiable unit) particles”—PARTICLES nonetheless?
Answer: I am not a quantum physicist but it seems to me from what I have read that a particle is as you say describing the least/smallest possible unit. Its true nature though is not observable by us (when we observe our rugs). We register its presence when we attempt to find what our rugs are made of and you are labelling the material with the word/symbol, ‘particle’. Its existence requires an observer/consciousness (your consciousness). Here you enter the tricky issue of how such particles come into existence. It seems it requires the presence of an observer for them to do so. In terms of our rugs they are what we are using to form the basic components of our rugs. As the weaver it is you placing them to form the reality which your consciousness experiences. I see no inconsistency here. A quantum reality is a way of labelling what is unseen and perhaps unseeable behind our everyday realities; the unseen tiniest components which we build with.
3 . Isn’t the PHYSICAL reality that of “ Wave-likeness of real particles” and not the imaginary waviness and the imaginary creation of artificial puzzles and paradoxes?
Answer: sorry you have lost me a bit here. My perspective is that physical reality is an imaginary creation. This would include concepts like paradoxes and puzzles. Like the assumed physical reality itself they could be considered artificial.
4 . “… Many years working closely with people with developmental disabilities taught me this”. Addiction to alcohol, drugs, sex, occultism, sorcery, gambling etc. often have verisimilar consequences as developmental disabilities. Some of the pioneers of quantum physics were addicts, otherwise psychiatrist (& a sorcerer) Carl Jung would not have been a contributing “quantum pioneer”.
Answer: I find this comment disturbing maybe even offensive. I do not perceive the connection between developmental disabilities and addiction to drugs sex etc. as appropriate. Perhaps you have a lack of understanding of what a developmental disability is. It is a process which is not able to follow what you might expect to be its normal path of development. Injury either before or during birth is the most common recognisable cause. The unfolding of the sensory and physical abilities of such an individual is inconsistent or even not present. So their rugs do not make much sense to them. At best they are only slightly comparable to others. Most find it impossible to communicate what they experience to others or even relate to others. Their rugs or reality have become too different to others for them to communicate with others. To describe this in a simple way: If you are born blind you will never to be able to experience colour or visual form in the way others do. You will just hear about this mythical thing called colour and light. However, it will not exist for you, so how to converse with someone about it? What should be of more concern to every individual is the fact that development continues until your physical form disintegrates. Therefore it is possible for each of us to experience loss of bodily control, deprivation of sensory inputs and consequent mental confusion and frustration. How your soul/being would cope with this is something you might not want to find out. A stroke, brain injury, dementia all these things can change your course of development. You appear to be fortunate, so far. As for the developmental paths of addiction you mention. Yes you are able to develop in these directions. Usually people do so because of some unseen mental injury, deprivation, emotional abuse, lack of love and feeling in their lives. All these things can drive a person to drink as they say. The addiction is the result of the flight from the continuation of the pain they are experiencing. Recovering from such abuse and addiction is extremely difficult and many become lost. With respect I think your rug may have many crossed wefts judging from the way you have mixed, judged and divided historical components like Augustine and pagan etc. thought.
5 . “ Understanding of cause and effect and logic”, “individual consciousness seems to have the desire to exist”, “ to exist it needs something to exist in”, “empty space expanding”? These are questions of aseity, causality, origin, meaning (desire), telos etc. which do not belong to the realm of any objective science.
Answer: I think I may agree with you here insofar as what you call objective science exists on/in the rug. Questions of aseity etc. would seem to be with the weaver; you. Therefore I do not understand why you seem to be objecting to exploring them. Perhaps you have convinced yourself that you can find your consciousness in your rug…
6 . In fact all these issues do not deal with the question of “what is consciousness?”, rather they deal with “what an individual is conscious of?” There is the world out there and the world within? An expanding empty space is an oxymoron. So also self-consciousness is another oxymoron when “self” is not real. If self is real and invisible the only candidate available for science today is bio dark-matter (of negligible mass) with its bio dark-matter chemistry, cocreating the resonant “dark” and “light” twins from the moment of conception.
Closed thinking is tunnel vision. It is an established hierarchical, inflexible task based path. Here one does not think about much more than getting routines done. A more spatial, tolerant and relaxed open mode thinking will require breaking ranks with the establishment swamp.
Philip Benjamin
Answer: sorry Philip I have tried to untangle your terminology in the past and find talk of swamps and what is it WAMPs reptilian consciousness etc. confusing and possessing of a tone of angst if not worse. As you say, ‘A more spatial, tolerant and relaxed open mode thinking will…’; the tone of your comments often seem far from tolerant and relaxed so I get confused. Are you part of the establishment? Which establishment do you represent? I do not feel part of any establishment always the outsider. Are you sure you are not in a swamp? How can you tell? I pose these questions sincerely. As for dark matter; have you ever considered the possibility that it is dark because it is in the unformed realm of the weaver/observer? Is it something, which you as a weaver have not yet managed to cast onto the rug? Something that is your attempt to recognise and label the unseen; the part of the puzzle that is uncreated, Jung who you seem to deride, might have called it the unconscious. As such it is that, which we are not conscious of. Your depiction of it as dark matter as opposed to light matter would seem to suggest this. A struggle to bring it into conception, if so I fear you will find there is always a need for the unknown the unseeable.
Interesting and thank you. Roland.
Roland Cichowski
Hi Rosemary,
You seem to have a handle on these things. So I would appreciate your thoughts on this issue concerning the symbology of the weaver.
Given we are all weavers working on our rugs and the rugs represent what we experience as our reality. Are we working on our individual rugs or are we all working on the same single rug?
I get it that I am working on my rug but I recognise there seems to be a connection to others after all we all act as if we are living in the same world reality.
Hope you are feeling better, Roland
Rosemary Rock-Evans
On Monday the District nurse rang up and said she would be with me in an hour. I had not indicated I wanted a visit. District nurses are the only ones who do home visits, and they restrict them to the old and frail. When she arrived , she told me she was going to vaccinate me, no ifs, no buts. She was not going to give me the Pfizer vaccine because it had to be kept cold, she would give me 'another one'.
I asked her what was in it, she handed me the leaflet to read.
I asked her if she had an epinephrine pen on her , she said no.
From what I remember it had Polysorbate 80 [cancer causing wallpaper paste, that can also clog the arteries] and Sorbitol [?], the rest I cannot remember. She took the leaflet away with her.
I said no, whereupon she said that I would get no treatment from the NHS if I became ill, unless I had it.
So lose lose.
I didn't know what to do.
So I let her vaccinate me whilst she went on and on about the evils of Dr Wakefield, and the incompetence of Boris.
I was very pleased when she left.
Nothing happened, and I breathed a sigh of relief, but the next day after my meal I went into a state of shock. My pulse all but stopped I went deadly cold, and my heart started to flutter like a dying butterfly . David rushed round turning up the heating and bringing hot drinks , but I felt I was dying. Shortly afterwards I fell into what can only be described as a coma, as according to David I looked like I had died. But he had faith in me and no faith in the medical profession and he left me .
Six hours later I came to, feeling like death still, and with my heart all over the place. It still is. I now have skin problems of an almost mind bending severity, spots rashes eruptions cracks, flaking, itching. But I am still here - just.
There is no mechanism provided in the UK for reporting the after effects of this shot. And I am convinced the effects were caused by the combination of the medicine I am taking for the glaucoma and the vaccination. I suspect that there are old people and people with heart problems or similar, simply dying from this vaccination and it is not being reported. Charles Richet the Nobel prize winner in his acceptance speech indicated that it takes very little to invoke a reaction in someone with an immune system already primed - by other medicines or leaky gut.
So in answer to your kind question I am not feeling exactly 100 per cent at the moment and as such my reply may not be very valid, but...................
I think we are all working on one massive carpet with one very impressive integrated design, but we each have a part of that carpet to work on. The carpet is both the entire plan and the finished result.
Best wishes to you
rosie
------ Original Message ------
From: "Roland Cichowski" <rola...@gmail.com>
To: "'Rosemary Rock-Evans' via Consciousness-Online" <general...@googlegroups.com>
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Philip Benjamin
[Roland Cichowski]
Dare I ask why your posts are filled, perhaps, so vehemently with all of the Augustinian, pagan, Wamp stuff. It may have given me a wrong impression of you. I don’t understand what it has to do with consciousness.
[Philip Benjamin]
Any refence to the authoritarian, global-Marxist-socialist (Comintern) is “vehemently” disapproved and branded as “conspiratorial” bigotry and “ignorance” by the established acade-media order. European and American histories (other than the Progressive-pagan revisionist versions) are expunged from the curricula under the pretext of Church-State separation, because most of these histories are related to and deeply rooted in Church History. It is a conscious (pagan un-awakened, kundalini/reptilian), calculated misstatements about distant or recent past. The acade-media use it to destroy personal lives and relationships or connivingly in political and socio-cultural discussions—especially in the less-informed social media. Reality existed before CopenPagan Interpretation came into existence!!
That the Western Civilization was (and still is to some extent) distinctly different and separate from the rest of the world of “un-awakened” consciousness is a HISTORICAL fact. The role of the once pagan Augustine of the (3 rd - 4 th Centuries) is unquestionable in baptizing Platonism into Scriptural norms (though he later on completely got out of Platonism). The anchoring of Augustinian philosophy and theology to the Athenian Mars Hill discourse of Rabbi Saul of Tarsus is too obvious. These are “truth-facts” which cannot be denied. The later “quickening” are all Augustinian-- Reformation, Wesleyan and Puritan Revivals, the Two Great Awakenings in America and many others still current. The Western Acae-Media Pagan(ism) – WAMP-the-Ingrate-- does deny all that unconscionably and/or ignorantly. Somebody has to point that out. It is not only a question of “consciousness”, but also of conscience. It is not bigotry, only chivalry. Revisionists hate it. Progressivism/paganism shuns it. The division between “awakening” and “dormancy” or “deadness” is abysmal. The hatred there is REAL but one-way—from the latter to the former.
Philip Benjamin
From: Roland Cichowski <rolandshh@ > Tuesday, February 16, 2021 2:13 AM
: Philip Benjamin <medin...@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Consciousness-Online] FW: Falling Outward (was: Words, definitions, and Many "Worlds")
Philip, Thank you. At last I think I can begin to perceive your approach.
I agree when you say:
The answer is “yes”. Nothing never existed. Otherwise something cannot exist now. This can be settled only by a degree of rationality.
Perhaps you did not notice my statement in my previous post
…It is the fact that you are here to make this statement, which means that nothingness is not a reality; your presence the presence of your consciousness means a condition of nothingness really does not exist.
So, I think we are saying the same thing here. Therefore the issue is, why do we seem to be disagreeing with one another. I think I can begin to perceive an answer when you say.
What is more rational? Dead matter having aseity or LIFE having aseity. Dead matter cannot produce life. LIFE can produce dead matter and life.
If you substitute consciousness for the word LIFE…
(What is more rational? Dead matter having aseity or Consciousness having aseity. Dead matter cannot produce Consciousness. Consciousness can produce dead matter and life.)
Then this more or less equates with my view.
Some of the key points: Consciousness having aseity [being sufficient unto its self?] given that I am seeking an explanation for what consciousness is I have to consider if that is possible for my consciousness. Several perspectives arise; if I have an immortal soul, perhaps but I cannot tell this until I die. Hmmm… If you are saying that consciousness has asiety then I think I can agree with that.
How can Impersonal Consciousness produce personal beings? A Personal Aseitous Being is a necessary Reality.
I think we may be agreeing here also. The concept of what I think of as personality might seem not to exist. Yet I feel I have a personality and it seems you do also. It's almost like consciousness, possesing of a certain intangibility. It would also seem to be an important component of conscious. My question is where does it come from, never mind what it is? My answer is that it must lie in the beginning of things. Our divergence seems to come about around here somehow.
For you that beginning would seem to come from a material reality. For me that does not make sense. Given that our understanding of a physical reality cannot explain (as yet) how consciousness can arise from what you call dead matter. At best it is consigned to the status of an epi-phenomenon. I have been considering if dead matter can arise from life or consciousness. In terms of the nature of the ultimate reality that is our existence. I can’t help thinking that if that ultimate reality is consciousness then it is capable of producing an experience of what you call dead matter. It becomes a question of if we can see through the true nature of our experience of things. What is an experience? We automatically take our experience of things as given. There is plenty to suggest that there is something wrong with this from a physical perspective. Most prominent is the issue of how colour qualia arises. If it arises in what we call consciousness that works it is something we paint upon our experience and then put it out there and call it a reality. If we believe it is out there as a separate quality in a physical universe then we have a problem explaining how it appears in our experience.
Plenty to think about.
PS. Dare I ask why your posts are filled, perhaps, so vehemently with all of the Augustinian, pagan, Wamp stuff. It may have given me a wrong impression of you. I don’t understand what it has to do with consciousness.
Thanks for the deep thoughts. Roland
On 16/02/2021 1:40, Philip Benjamin wrote:
Roland:
You ask: “This is the problem when you and others take this sort of attitude. Are you really saying that you can know that anything exists without your consciousness? How can you know that?”
The answer is “yes”. Nothing never existed. Otherwise something cannot exist now. This can be settled only by a degree of rationality. What is more rational? Dead matter having aseity or LIFE having aseity. Dead matter cannot produce life. LIFE can produce dead matter and life. Finite goddess of Science is imprecise, imperfect and indefinite. Will any religion or philosophy really answer these questions? Eastern or Greco- Roman mystic religions have come up with all kinds of superstitions and speculations. How can Impersonal Consciousness produce personal beings? A Personal Aseitous Being is a necessary Reality. Augustine was once an erudite, Phoenician pagan of Greco-Roman roots. He was instantly TRANSFORMED through the instrumentality of a child’s song that led him to Romans 13:13 (www.midwestaugustinians.org/conversion-of-st-augustine). He baptized Platonism into Scriptural norms, and sconced it into the foundations laid by Rabbi Saul of Tarsus on Athenian Mars Hill (Acts chapter 17), where the Greco-Roman unknown god was clearly identified as Adonai (plural) YHWH (singular) Elohim (uni-plural) in the Person of the Risen Messiah. That SEPARATED the West from the rest of the PAGAN world of un-awakened consciousness. These are historical facts. There are more histories as Reformation, Wesleyan & Puritan Revivals, Welsh Revival, The Two great Awakenings in America and great awakenings world-wide (Kagawa in Japan, Sadhu Sundar Sing in India etc.). Seemingly, Bohr or the Western Acade-Media Pagan(ism) have never heard of these historical facts!!
Philip Benjamin
Some of my publications:
Nuclear charge dispersion in the fission of 232Th by protons of energy 20–85 MeV
February 2011Canadian Journal of Chemistry 47(2):301-312 DOI: 10.1139/v69-042 Authors: Philip Benjamin et al. Nuclear charge dispersion in the fission of 232Th by protons of energy 20-85 MeV;
P. P. BEN JAM IN, D. A. MARSDEKN~. ,T . PO RILE^, AND L. YAFFE; CANADIAN JOURNAL OF CHEMISTRY. VOL. 47, 301-312, 1969 McGill Unrversity, Montreal, Quebec With financial assistance from the Directorate of Chemical Sciences, U.S. Air Force Office of Scientific Research, Grant Nos. AF-AFOSR 62-64 and 489-64.
ELECTROLYTIC COMPLEXATION OF 99mTc ATCONSTANT CURRENT: ITS APPLICATIONS IN NUCLEAR MEDICINE
Philip P. Benjamin, Abbas Rejali and Hymer Friedell Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio; J Nucl Med. 1970 Apr;11(4):147-54.
BENJAMIN, Philip P. A rapid and efficient method of preparing 99mTc human serum albumin: its clinical applications. Intern. I. App!. Radiation Isotopes 20:187, 1969.
BENJAMIN, Philip P. J Nucl Med. 1970 Jan;11(1):49-50. Electrolytic complexation of technetium: inhibition by impurities and a recipe for routine preparation.
.
From: Roland Cichowski <rola...@gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2021 7:26 PM
To: Philip Benjamin <medin...@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Consciousness-Online] FW: Falling Outward (was: Words, definitions, and Many "Worlds")
Heh!
No, Philip, that is NOT just a CopenPagan view. Reality DID NOT exist before Niels Bohr came into existence!!
Neither does yours.
Seriously Philip, just a unsupported assertion from you! Sure you can do better. Where is your evidence, scientifically verified and repeatable evidence? I’m assuming you consider yourself a scientist of some sort.
This is the problem when you and others take this sort of attitude. Are you really saying that you can know that anything exists without your consciousness? How can you know that?
I know that something we call consciousness is here in this moment because I am it and I cannot deny my own presence. I don’t know about yours and am willing to freely admit that. As to what my consciousness experiences really are I will admit I have no way of proving that those experiences are there without me. I know they are there for me, but could be illusory. I assume you know yours are there for you.
Have you ever stopped to consider that if what you perceive as reality does NOT exist without you then everything that you have built and understood by accepting the proposition (without proof) that it DOES, could be wrong? It would block you from understanding a greater reality or what is really causing you to exist. Perhaps you have no need for self-knowledge or awareness. First casualty in your believe system if it should turn out that your version of reality does not exist without you is that what you call the ‘CopenPagan view’, could be right. I can understand how this would be annoying for you but really do you want to risk an existence of ignorance based upon an unprovable assertion?
I prefer to accept for the moment that I do not, one hundred percent, know. What I do know is that the proposition that my daily reality does not exist without me seems to solve more issues than the idea that it does exist without me.
I may get to the end of my journey and discover I am wrong until then I will keep searching. You think you have an answer but it is all based upon an unprovable assertion. Do you accept other unprovable assertions? If not then why would you accept the foundational one upon which you have constructed your whole view of reality when you have no way of proving it; If you have please let me know, seriously I mean it.
From a figment of your imagination called Roland that you are using to try to correct your error.😉
Surprise me by giving me a provable answer, Roland.
On 15/02/2021 6:29, Philip Benjamin wrote:
No, Roland, that is a CopenPagan view. Reality DID exist before Niels Bohr came into existence!!
From: Roland Cichowski <rola...@gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2021 7:57 PM
To: Philip Benjamin <medin...@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Consciousness-Online] FW: Falling Outward (was: Words, definitions, and Many "Worlds")
Philip, a brief response to:
Reality— for to be REAL-- either exists or it does not, whether anybody looks at it or perceives it is immaterial.
With respect I really do think this is where you are making a crucial error in your thinking.
Of course it is vitally important if anybody looks at it or not. If no one experiences reality how is anyone to know it exists? It would to all intents and purposes not be there. If it were there it might as well not be.
You are not the only one who fails to recognise the importance and contribution of consciousness to the existence of anything at all.
You unwittingly support this when you say:
Nothingness could never have been a REALIY [reality].
That is very true, because if nothingness were a reality then you would not be here to observe it, you are something. Your presence negates the possibility of nothingness. It is the fact that you are here to make this statement, which means that nothingness is not a reality; Your presence the presence of your consciousness means a condition of nothingness really does not exist.
If you can perceive that this is the state of things in regard to nothingness then how can you make the statement that whether anyone looks at the state/condition we call ‘reality’ is immaterial? Consciousness is as relevant to the existence of a condition of reality as it is to the non-existence of nothingness.
To follow you own reasoning. How do you know that there are not many things in existence which you know nothing about because you have not had an opportunity to see/experience them? To all intents and purposes such things do not exist for you. You do not experience them so they are not available to your consciousness. Effectively they do not exist in your version of reality, they are propositions, nothing more. Perhaps they are not even that. If they were suddenly to appear to you then you would believe they exist. it would change your whole perspective on reality. Would you still then believe it was an immaterial as to whether they existed or not?
All the best Roland.
On 13/02/2021 1:40, Philip Benjamin wrote:
[Philip Benjamin]
A quick reply is in order for now.” [Quantum particle’s] existence requires an observer/consciousness (your consciousness)”. That is the CopenPagan Interpretation. Reality— for to be REAL-- either exists or it does not, whether anybody looks at it or perceives it is immaterial. Nothingness could never have been a REALIY. There is of course the possibility of “close sensory approximation”. The mistake is to call Schrodinger Equation a “wave equation” it is a “wavelike equation”. Wave-likeness is not equal to waviness. Absurd/illogical solutions of this equation cannot be accepted, if an artificial paradox such as wave-likeness = waviness is accepted as reality. A particle is a REALITY. A wave-form is another REALITY. Particles do not transform into waves without an external source of very high power!! One physicist once commented that a trained “sage” can see particle as wave in the slit experiment!
The statement that “Addictions often have verisimilar consequences as developmental disabilities” does not mean that the two are the same. There are certain consequences to certain behaviors and beliefs which are verisimilar to developmental disabilities. Imaginations and hallucinations about REALITIES could very well be “addiction” related, addiction to “occultism” or psychedelics for example.
Philip Benjamin
From: Roland Cichowski <rolandshh@ > Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2021 8:43 PM Subject: Re: [Consciousness-Online] FW: Falling Outward (was: Words, definitions, and Many "Worlds")
Philip lots of questions long answer, apologies…
Questions:
1 . Property of what? Of space? Of matter? Will not “…the idea of consciousness being the property that expands space” deprive “consciousness” of its ontological nature?
Answer: I don’t think so. If you are looking at the issue of what all things/experiences have in common. Then it could be said that consciousness as ‘being’ is common to them all. Try experiencing anything when you are unconscious. So, the idea that consciousness expands space is consistent with the idea that it is consciousness itself which is responsible for generating everything that you can be aware of. This includes your sense of space and time. Try experiencing reality without time. Such a reality is frozen; doesn’t go anywhere; can’t move forward or backwards. Likewise you will have trouble experiencing anything without space. Without some sort of space there is nothing for anything to be experienced in; nothing for anything to exist in.
2 . Quantum reality? Isn’t it the reality of “quantum (least measurable, quantifiable unit) particles”—PARTICLES nonetheless?
Answer: I am not a quantum physicist but it seems to me from what I have read that a particle is as you say describing the least/smallest possible unit. Its true nature though is not observable by us (when we observe our rugs). We register its presence when we attempt to find what our rugs are made of and you are labelling the material with the word/symbol, ‘particle’. Its existence requires an observer/consciousness (your consciousness). Here you enter the tricky issue of how such particles come into existence. It seems it requires the presence of an observer for them to do so. In terms of our rugs they are what we are using to form the basic components of our rugs. As the weaver it is you placing them to form the reality which your consciousness experiences. I see no inconsistency here. A quantum reality is a way of labelling what is unseen and perhaps unseeable behind our everyday realities; the unseen tiniest components which we build with.
3 . Isn’t the PHYSICAL reality that of “ Wave-likeness of real particles” and not the imaginary waviness and the imaginary creation of artificial puzzles and paradoxes?
Answer: sorry you have lost me a bit here. My perspective is that physical reality is an imaginary creation. This would include concepts like paradoxes and puzzles. Like the assumed physical reality itself they could be considered artificial.
4 . “… Many years working closely with people with developmental disabilities taught me this”. Addiction to alcohol, drugs, sex, occultism, sorcery, gambling etc. often have verisimilar consequences as developmental disabilities. Some of the pioneers of quantum physics were addicts, otherwise psychiatrist (& a sorcerer) Carl Jung would not have been a contributing “quantum pioneer”.
Answer: I find this comment disturbing maybe even offensive. I do not perceive the connection between developmental disabilities and addiction to drugs sex etc. as appropriate. Perhaps you have a lack of understanding of what a developmental disability is. It is a process which is not able to follow what you might expect to be its normal path of development. Injury either before or during birth is the most common recognisable cause. The unfolding of the sensory and physical abilities of such an individual is inconsistent or even not present. So their rugs do not make much sense to them. At best they are only slightly comparable to others. Most find it impossible to communicate what they experience to others or even relate to others. Their rugs or reality have become too different to others for them to communicate with others. To describe this in a simple way: If you are born blind you will never to be able to experience colour or visual form in the way others do. You will just hear about this mythical thing called colour and light. However, it will not exist for you, so how to converse with someone about it? What should be of more concern to every individual is the fact that development continues until your physical form disintegrates. Therefore it is possible for each of us to experience loss of bodily control, deprivation of sensory inputs and consequent mental confusion and frustration. How your soul/being would cope with this is something you might not want to find out. A stroke, brain injury, dementia all these things can change your course of development. You appear to be fortunate, so far. As for the developmental paths of addiction you mention. Yes you are able to develop in these directions. Usually people do so because of some unseen mental injury, deprivation, emotional abuse, lack of love and feeling in their lives. All these things can drive a person to drink as they say. The addiction is the result of the flight from the continuation of the pain they are experiencing. Recovering from such abuse and addiction is extremely difficult and many become lost. With respect I think your rug may have many crossed wefts judging from the way you have mixed, judged and divided historical components like Augustine and pagan etc. thought.
5 . “ Understanding of cause and effect and logic”, “individual consciousness seems to have the desire to exist”, “ to exist it needs something to exist in”, “empty space expanding”? These are questions of aseity, causality, origin, meaning (desire), telos etc. which do not belong to the realm of any objective science.
Answer: I think I may agree with you here insofar as what you call objective science exists on/in the rug. Questions of aseity etc. would seem to be with the weaver; you. Therefore I do not understand why you seem to be objecting to exploring them. Perhaps you have convinced yourself that you can find your consciousness in your rug…
6 . In fact all these issues do not deal with the question of “what is consciousness?”, rather they deal with “what an individual is conscious of?” There is the world out there and the world within? An expanding empty space is an oxymoron. So also self-consciousness is another oxymoron when “self” is not real. If self is real and invisible the only candidate available for science today is bio dark-matter (of negligible mass) with its bio dark-matter chemistry, cocreating the resonant “dark” and “light” twins from the moment of conception.
Closed thinking is tunnel vision. It is an established hierarchical, inflexible task based path. Here one does not think about much more than getting routines done. A more spatial, tolerant and relaxed open mode thinking will require breaking ranks with the establishment swamp.
Philip Benjamin
Answer: sorry Philip I have tried to untangle your terminology in the past and find talk of swamps and what is it WAMPs reptilian consciousness etc. confusing and possessing of a tone of angst if not worse. As you say, ‘A more spatial, tolerant and relaxed open mode thinking will…’; the tone of your comments often seem far from tolerant and relaxed so I get confused. Are you part of the establishment? Which establishment do you represent? I do not feel part of any establishment always the outsider. Are you sure you are not in a swamp? How can you tell? I pose these questions sincerely. As for dark matter; have you ever considered the possibility that it is dark because it is in the unformed realm of the weaver/observer? Is it something, which you as a weaver have not yet managed to cast onto the rug? Something that is your attempt to recognise and label the unseen; the part of the puzzle that is uncreated, Jung who you seem to deride, might have called it the unconscious. As such it is that, which we are not conscious of. Your depiction of it as dark matter as opposed to light matter would seem to suggest this. A struggle to bring it into conception, if so I fear you will find there is always a need for the unknown the unseeable.
Interesting and thank you. Roland.
On 12/02/2021 2:29, Philip Benjamin wrote:
Harland Harrison
|
To view this discussion on the web visit
Rosemary Rock-Evans
I didn't even know this site existed! Thank you for letting me know. All this happened last Monday, obviously [at least I think it was Monday, David and I aren't very good on what day it is these days]. Hopefully there is not a limit on when one can report things.
The really awful thing is that around 66 years ago, my brother as a baby had an identical reaction to a vaccination [he thinks it was diptheria, I thought it was smallpox]. He nearly died and was left with eczema which has converted itself into that skin disease where you lose all pigmentation. And it affected his eyesight, he had to wear glasses from about age 3. His heart also went, just like mine, when he was 60 [like me].
The district nurse comes for our neighbour Josie to help her out of bed. And get her dressed etc. She is over 90 and is at home. I think I just happened to be on her rounds.
I always thought you lived in France, because of your email address. Just goes to show, you learn something every day.
I don't see the point of vaccinating the old first, Harland. It would be far better to vaccinate the young and the workers as they are the carriers and they are the ones keeping the rest of us going. Us oldies stay at home and I haven't broken any of the rules, because I rarely leave the house. Given that this adverse reaction has now left me needing to go to the loo every couple of hours , unless they convert my mobility scooter into a commode, I won't be going out at all in the future. If they'd vaccinated all the young and healthy, then they could have gone and seen their elderly relatives without risk.
It all seems a bit barmy to me.
I appreciate all the kind words anyway. Verna thinks I have a will to live. And I do. But.....................
best wishes to you all
rosie
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Harland Harrison
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Rosemary Rock-Evans
When my husband David went to have his cataract operation and they asked him what medications he was taking [none], the nurse said he was the first one she had ever come across that was taking nothing. Apparently most people over 65 or so have lists as long as your arm. This means that my possible cross reaction [I don't know of course, it may be just a straightforward reaction, but assuming it is a cross reaction] may actually be quite frequent. And how would anyone know? If you are dead you can't report anything and no relative is going to put two and two together to make four.
Let's get back to weavers and looms, it is more cheerful. The symbolism of the tapestry [briefly mentioned] is also a useful one as tapestries are enormous and ladies used to work on different sections - much as one would do if you were involved in a major plan. The reason I think looms was a more favoured analogy is that you could include the idea of the shuttle and the point in what we call 'time'.
rosie
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Roland Cichowski
Hi Rosie,
So sorry to hear of your bad reaction I hope you are feeling better by now. Sorry for the late response your posts come in overnight and it takes me a while to get round to things. Harland beat me to it. Sorry but this will be a long post.
Anyway, I’ve decided to continue with the general thrust of my inquiry. However your situation and experience has changed things a little. Just as you felt it might do. You said:
I feel I need to give you some background as to what has happened over the past few days which might have an impact on how you view my reply.
How instinctively wise of you. I will continue in the hope it will at least provide you with some distraction and maybe even help you deal with your issues at the moment.
Your answer was half expected but there are a few alternative perspectives to be considered. However, your situation provides some examples; opportunities to use and explore some of the issues I am grappling with. Maybe it was meant to be, there are lots of unseen currents in our reality.
As mentioned in your previous post you seem to agree that the important most overlooked aspect of the symbology is the weaver. You will have to forgive me if I do not explain all this too well we are in the furthest most distant aspects of my explorations and I may not put things to well. I have always struggled with language and grammar.
You are the weaver of your rug or you are contributing to a rug, in some ways it doesn’t matter. This being the case do you consider the implications if you are (weaving) creating what you might call your physical reality? After all it is you who are the weaver of it. There is a difficulty here in recognising how we are doing this. Obviously we do not perceive ourselves as sitting in front of this reality weaving it. Given your recent experience have you considered the part that you as the weaver may be playing in the world about you and how you are doing it?
I do not know you too well, at present but I have picked up that you seem to distrust modern science and medicine despite the fact if I have understood correctly you have been working in the scientific arena for most of your life, could be a reason for distrusting certain things I suppose; too close to it maybe.
So, how anxious have you been over taking this vaccine? More importantly what affect do you think this might have had on the rug you are weaving, because obviously the issue is appearing on my rug also? Now put this way it sounds rather fantastical but if you plunge yourself into what we call the real world and say for example that your post has put me off from having the vaccine then it becomes more real and I will be weaving this into my rug as well. In either scenario we do not easily perceive what we are doing and it is even harder to work out how we do it.
I am going to digress with a personal story which may help in understanding where I am coming from.
Around the age of 8 my brother and I were in a care institution run by nuns. At that time my brother and I found the soles of our feet plastered in verruca warts to the extent it was uncomfortable to walk on them. The nuns looked and said oh dear you are going to have to go to hospital and have them removed. That prospect I found highly disturbing. (I was a bit of a sensitive child.) My younger brother is much tougher in this respect. Anyway in discussion with some of the other boys I asked how are they going to remove them, fearing a scalpel? Oh no one of them says they burn them out, worse! Horrified I asked how they burn them out. To, which this charming lad replied; oh they stick red hot wires into them. Again I was horrified and we had to spend I think almost a week waiting for the appointment. All this time I was envisioning red hot needles going in all over my feet, the smell of burning flesh the pain etc. really terrified and upset I wished for them to go. I had heard gypsies could make warts disappear so I wished very hard. I was also encouraged by the situation to do everything I could imagine doing, praying to god that I would not have to go through with this etc. A nun woke us on the morning we had to go to the hospital. I thought, oh no and getting out of bed in dread looked at my feet. To my surprise and relief there was not a single verruca on my feet. My brother leapt to look at his unfortunately he still had plenty and had to go to have them burned off. The burning was freezing of course but I was not to know that. Probably the boy who told me it was hot wires had misunderstood as well and created a vision of hot needles for himself. Anyway I have never forgotten this incident and as a result of it have often wondered about miracles and the healing process. It has coloured my perspective.
The question is, had I altered the rug I was weaving and how? The only thing I can think of is the extreme fear I felt along with the emotional aspect of it, praying to god and the saints as well. But you know there is a vast difference between routinely offering up prayers and praying with a deep emotional thrust. This incident taught me something. There have been a few other relevant incidents in my life also that are related. But the upshot is that it does seem possible to inflict miraculous events upon our physical existence and the rug symbolism may be giving me some ideas as to how.
How conscious can we be of our weaving self’s? It seems important because it seems obvious to me that although such incidents as the above can bring about a positive result it is also obvious we can create negative ones. In fact I suspect that we are more likely to create negative ones, if we get into certain states of mind, than positive outcomes.
Now you can perhaps see my interest in the symbology of the loom, rug and weaver. I suspect that our whole existence is engaged in a struggle of some kind to assert a positive outcome in the rugs design. We struggle constantly to correct others errors on the rug as well as our own. We might also create problems in, certain ways as, a way to learn and move forward. I have observed that the greatest change comes from dealing with problems drifting can result in a self-satisfied existence, with no suffering. Perhaps this is all linked to what you call the great work on your site.
So
think of
your recent experience like this. Your worst fears start to be
realised when:
On Monday the District nurse rang up and said she would be
with me in an hour.
I had not indicated I wanted a visit… …she told
me she was going to vaccinate me, no ifs, no buts… …I asked her what was in it, she handed me
the leaflet to
read... …I asked her if she had an epinephrine pen on her ,
she said no. From
what I remember it had Polysorbate 80 [cancer causing
wallpaper paste, that can
also clog the arteries] and Sorbitol [?]… …I said no,
whereupon she said that I
would get no treatment from the NHS if I became ill, unless I
had it…
Let me say here, you seem to have been unlucky in having a really unprofessional nurse. What you describe sounds like bullying and coercion. I doubt it is true you would be refused treatment, to controversial. Anyway:
So
I let her
vaccinate me whilst she went on and on about the evils of Dr
Wakefield…
Who is Dr. Wakefield?
…the next day after my meal I went into a state of shock. My pulse all but stopped I went deadly cold, and my heart started to flutter like a dying butterfly … …Six hours later I came to, feeling like death still, and with my heart all over the place. It still is. I now have skin problems of an almost mind bending severity, spots rashes eruptions cracks, flaking, itching. But I am still here - just.
An aside here: I’ve spent most of the morning trying to verify on the net mostly the nature of Polysorbate 80 reactions the results were inconclusive. It seems that the old adage you can’t believe what you read in the papers is now true of the internet. I have not given up but I found one reference which described your side effects but it had been suspiciously removed on the grounds that its source was unproven or inaccurate. I think that is reason enough that you should report your reaction to the site that Harland mentioned, if for no other reason than there might be others like you and the authorities need to know. I don’t completely trust the internet either but I think your government’s intentions are basically good. I certainly hope so and anyway I suspect that all these problems are part of this unseen struggle that is going on over the rug. In some ways we cannot escape it. I do not want to dwell on this here because it takes us off track. So, to get back to our rug:
I
think we are all working on one massive carpet with one very
impressive
integrated design, but we each have a part of that carpet to
work on. The
carpet is both the entire plan and the finished result.
If this is so I believe perhaps you need to oppose the situation it is too easy to lose sight of our abilities as weavers to control and change the outcomes on the rug. I think you have to think a bit more about this in relation to the weaver scenario. I know it seems fantastical and I do not have the complete answer yet nor can I prove anything. If it was not for your situation I would not be exposing this view at this point in time.
However, you can find the logic if you like, to turn the situation of how you feel around a bit. If reality is a rug that you are weaving then you have the power to improve its design and outcome for yourself and others in a positive way. Think about the placebo effect. You take a sugar pill and it can cure you. You take aspirin and it takes your pain away. Researchers do not like to consider that the reason the aspirin works is the same as why the sugar pill can sometimes work. It is almost as if when the enough of the group consciousness is convinced that aspirin works it does or it does for most, you will find people who claim it does nothing for them. If enough people stopped believing in it then it would be as effective as a sugar pill. So, we can ask the question is this how the carpet is woven? If enough of the weavers accept a reality, it becomes a reality. The good threads overcome the bad ones. I don’t believe it is quite that simple there are complications but it is the glimmer of an idea.
Our bodies are basically strong they have immune systems that can change and learn they are built to withstand many dangerous natural factors in the environment and I suspect the truth is that we can influence its effectiveness by our attitudes. Even if an element of the vaccine has to some degree affected you badly your immune system can demolish and absorb it. But you may feel the effects while it achieves this feat. However, a crucial aspect of all this is your mind or consciousness. There is mounting evidence that the immune system is affected by even the presence of bacteria in your gut and genes that switch on and off in response to effects, some of them mental. More worryingly bugs and your immune system can even affect how your mind feels. When everything achieves a reasonable balance we start to feel well. Things like vaccines can work to varying degrees and sometimes there is a price to pay but the alternative is worse.
Taking a completely spiritual view of things we can get confused. We should not forget that the rug may be an illusion of our own making. But we should not forget either that it is us making it into a reality within which most of us chose to live.
Perhaps you have heard the Christian story of the lady trapped on her roof in a flood praying fervently for god’s help. A helicopter comes by and she waves it away my god will save me she says. A boat approaches she says the same to them, she has faith. A broken piece of decking drifts by and she thinks no I won’t take a chance my god will save me. Unfortunately she drowns and when she gets to heaven she asks god why, did you not save me. I prayed and had faith in you. To which god replies what do you mean, I sent a helicopter a boat a bit of decking, why did you not use them?
I think we sometimes don’t recognise how intertwined our spiritual and physical realities are.
Believe me I know the difficulties I have my issues with dealing with drug treatments. Our doctors mean well they are attempting to help us. Think about it this way. When we reach out with our minds to discover how molecules work in relation to our bodies we are seeking ways to manipulate the carpet. Our hands and bodies are instruments for manipulating the unseen. They allow us to weave the rug your hands can move things around in the reality and thus change things on the rug. The spirit is using them to manipulate things. All this is helpless though if the right spiritual attitude is unable to guide those hands. The outright miracle induced by mind might be much harder to achieve.
We need to become better at weaving the rug in a more aware way.
I know you like music, if you have not heard this go to link.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdWsrHQUfv5tfGzjnVDaMIQ
It is best listened to with headphones relaxed in bed imagining the sounds as golden healing light passing through and over your body. And this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mi2WtNfmfJI
Read the words on this one if you can for inspiration and solace. You can find longer versions just for listening if you need to you will find them.
Rest
and heal
I sense your work is not finished yet. Roland
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Roland Cichowski
Hi Rosie,
So sorry to hear of your bad reaction I hope you are feeling better by now. Sorry for the late response your posts come in overnight and it takes me a while to get round to things. Harland beat me to it. Sorry but this will be a long post.
Anyway, I’ve decided to continue with the general thrust of my inquiry. However your situation and experience has changed things a little. Just as you felt it might do. You said:
I feel I need to give you some background as to what has happened over the past few days which might have an impact on how you view my reply.
How instinctively wise of you. I will continue in the hope it will at least provide you with some distraction and maybe even help you deal with your issues at the moment.
Your answer was half expected but there are a few alternative perspectives to be considered. However, your situation provides some examples; opportunities to use and explore some of the issues I am grappling with. Maybe it was meant to be, there are lots of unseen currents in our reality.
As mentioned in your previous post you seem to agree that the important most overlooked aspect of the symbology is the weaver. You will have to forgive me if I do not explain all this too well we are in the furthest most distant aspects of my explorations and I may not put things to well. I have always struggled with language and grammar.
You are the weaver of your rug or you are contributing to a rug, in some ways it doesn’t matter. This being the case do you consider the implications if you are (weaving) creating what you might call your physical reality? After all it is you who are the weaver of it. There is a difficulty here in recognising how we are doing this. Obviously we do not perceive ourselves as sitting in front of this reality weaving it. Given your recent experience have you considered the part that you as the weaver may be playing in the world about you and how you are doing it?
I do not know you too well, at present but I have picked up that you seem to distrust modern science and medicine despite the fact if I have understood correctly you have been working in the scientific arena for most of your life, could be a reason for distrusting certain things I suppose; too close to it maybe.
So, how anxious have you been over taking this vaccine? More importantly what affect do you think this might have had on the rug you are weaving, because obviously the issue is appearing on my rug also? Now put this way it sounds rather fantastical but if you plunge yourself into what we call the real world and say for example that your post has put me off from having the vaccine then it becomes more real and I will be weaving this into my rug as well. In either scenario we do not easily perceive what we are doing and it is even harder to work out how we do it.
I am going to digress with a personal story which may help in understanding where I am coming from.
Around the age of 8 my brother and I were in a care institution run by nuns. At that time my brother and I found the soles of our feet plastered in verruca warts to the extent it was uncomfortable to walk on them. The nuns looked and said oh dear you are going to have to go to hospital and have them removed. That prospect I found highly disturbing. (I was a bit of a sensitive child.) My younger brother is much tougher in this respect. Anyway in discussion with some of the other boys I asked how are they going to remove them, fearing a scalpel? Oh no one of them says they burn them out, worse! Horrified I asked how they burn them out. To, which this charming lad replied; oh they stick red hot wires into them. Again I was horrified and we had to spend I think almost a week waiting for the appointment. All this time I was envisioning red hot needles going in all over my feet, the smell of burning flesh the pain etc. really terrified and upset I wished for them to go. I had heard gypsies could make warts disappear so I wished very hard. I was also encouraged by the situation to do everything I could imagine doing, praying to god that I would not have to go through with this etc. A nun woke us on the morning we had to go to the hospital. I thought, oh no and getting out of bed in dread looked at my feet. To my surprise and relief there was not a single verruca on my feet. My brother leapt to look at his unfortunately he still had plenty and had to go to have them burned off. The burning was freezing of course but I was not to know that. Probably the boy who told me it was hot wires had misunderstood as well and created a vision of hot needles for himself. Anyway I have never forgotten this incident and as a result of it have often wondered about miracles and the healing process. It has coloured my perspective.
The question is, had I altered the rug I was weaving and how? The only thing I can think of is the extreme fear I felt along with the emotional aspect of it, praying to god and the saints as well. But you know there is a vast difference between routinely offering up prayers and praying with a deep emotional thrust. This incident taught me something. There have been a few other relevant incidents in my life also that are related. But the upshot is that it does seem possible to inflict miraculous events upon our physical existence and the rug symbolism may be giving me some ideas as to how.
How conscious can we be of our weaving self’s? It seems important because it seems obvious to me that although such incidents as the above can bring about a positive result it is also obvious we can create negative ones. In fact I suspect that we are more likely to create negative ones, if we get into certain states of mind, than positive outcomes.
Now you can perhaps see my interest in the symbology of the loom, rug and weaver. I suspect that our whole existence is engaged in a struggle of some kind to assert a positive outcome in the rugs design. We struggle constantly to correct others errors on the rug as well as our own. We might also create problems in, certain ways as, a way to learn and move forward. I have observed that the greatest change comes from dealing with problems drifting can result in a self-satisfied existence, with no suffering. Perhaps this is all linked to what you call the great work on your site.
So
think of your recent experience like this. Your worst fears
start to be realised when:
On Monday the District nurse rang up and said she would be
with me in an hour. I had not indicated I wanted a visit…
…she told me she was going to vaccinate
me, no ifs, no buts… …I asked
her what was in it, she handed me the leaflet to read... …I
asked her if she had an epinephrine pen on her , she said no.
From what I remember it had Polysorbate 80 [cancer causing
wallpaper paste, that can also clog the arteries] and Sorbitol
[?]… …I said no, whereupon she said that I would get no
treatment from the NHS if I became ill, unless I had it…
Let me say here, you seem to have been unlucky in having a really unprofessional nurse. What you describe sounds like bullying and coercion. I doubt it is true you would be refused treatment, to controversial. Anyway:
So
I let her vaccinate me whilst she went on and on about the evils
of Dr Wakefield…
Who is Dr. Wakefield?
…the next day after my meal I went into a state of shock. My pulse all but stopped I went deadly cold, and my heart started to flutter like a dying butterfly … …Six hours later I came to, feeling like death still, and with my heart all over the place. It still is. I now have skin problems of an almost mind bending severity, spots rashes eruptions cracks, flaking, itching. But I am still here - just.
An aside here: I’ve spent most of the morning trying to verify on the net mostly the nature of Polysorbate 80 reactions the results were inconclusive. It seems that the old adage you can’t believe what you read in the papers is now true of the internet. I have not given up but I found one reference which described your side effects but it had been suspiciously removed on the grounds that its source was unproven or inaccurate. I think that is reason enough that you should report your reaction to the site that Harland mentioned, if for no other reason than there might be others like you and the authorities need to know. I don’t completely trust the internet either but I think your government’s intentions are basically good. I certainly hope so and anyway I suspect that all these problems are part of this unseen struggle that is going on over the rug. In some ways we cannot escape it. I do not want to dwell on this here because it takes us off track. So, to get back to our rug:
I think we
are all working on one massive carpet with one very impressive
integrated design, but we each have a part of that carpet to
work on. The carpet is both the entire plan and the finished
result.
If this is so I believe perhaps you need to oppose the situation it is too easy to lose sight of our abilities as weavers to control and change the outcomes on the rug. I think you have to think a bit more about this in relation to the weaver scenario. I know it seems fantastical and I do not have the complete answer yet nor can I prove anything. If it was not for your situation I would not be exposing this view at this point in time.
However, you can find the logic if you like, to turn the situation of how you feel around a bit. If reality is a rug that you are weaving then you have the power to improve its design and outcome for yourself and others in a positive way. Think about the placebo effect. You take a sugar pill and it can cure you. You take aspirin and it takes your pain away. Researchers do not like to consider that the reason the aspirin works is the same as why the sugar pill can sometimes work. It is almost as if when the enough of the group consciousness is convinced that aspirin works it does or it does for most, you will find people who claim it does nothing for them. If enough people stopped believing in it then it would be as effective as a sugar pill. So, we can ask the question is this how the carpet is woven? If enough of the weavers accept a reality, it becomes a reality. The good threads overcome the bad ones. I don’t believe it is quite that simple there are complications but it is the glimmer of an idea.
Our bodies are basically strong they have immune systems that can change and learn they are built to withstand many dangerous natural factors in the environment and I suspect the truth is that we can influence its effectiveness by our attitudes. Even if an element of the vaccine has to some degree affected you badly your immune system can demolish and absorb it. But you may feel the effects while it achieves this feat. However, a crucial aspect of all this is your mind or consciousness. There is mounting evidence that the immune system is affected by even the presence of bacteria in your gut and genes that switch on and off in response to effects, some of them mental. More worryingly bugs and your immune system can even affect how your mind feels. When everything achieves a reasonable balance we start to feel well. Things like vaccines can work to varying degrees and sometimes there is a price to pay but the alternative is worse.
Taking a completely spiritual view of things we can get confused. We should not forget that the rug may be an illusion of our own making. But we should not forget either that it is us making it into a reality within which most of us chose to live.
Perhaps you have heard the Christian story of the lady trapped on her roof in a flood praying fervently for god’s help. A helicopter comes by and she waves it away my god will save me she says. A boat approaches she says the same to them, she has faith. A broken piece of decking drifts by and she thinks no I won’t take a chance my god will save me. Unfortunately she drowns and when she gets to heaven she asks god why, did you not save me. I prayed and had faith in you. To which god replies what do you mean, I sent a helicopter a boat a bit of decking, why did you not use them?
I think we sometimes don’t recognise how intertwined our spiritual and physical realities are. Believe me I know the difficulties I have my issues with dealing with drug treatments. Our doctors mean well they are attempting to help us. Think about it this way. When we reach out with our minds to discover how molecules work in relation to our bodies we are seeking ways to manipulate the carpet. Our hands and bodies are instruments for manipulating the unseen. They allow us to weave the rug your hands can move things around in reality and are thus changing things on the rug. The spirit is using them to manipulate things. All this is helpless though if the right spiritual attitude is unable to guide those hands. The outright miracle induced by mind might be much harder to achieve.
We need to become better at weaving the rug in a more aware way.
I know you like music, if you have not heard this go to link.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdWsrHQUfv5tfGzjnVDaMIQ
It is best listened to with headphones relaxed in bed imagining the sounds as golden healing light passing through and over your body. And this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mi2WtNfmfJI
Read the words on this one if you can for inspiration and solace. You can find longer versions just for listening if you need to you will find them.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to general_theor...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/general_theory/3c8b9735.1da2.177aac918ed.Webtop.107%40btinternet.com.
Philip Benjamin
everyth...@googlegroups.com Subject: RE: [Consciousness-Online] FW: Falling Outward (was: Words, definitions, and Many "Worlds")
[Philip Benjamin]
Va-alaikum As-salaam. In all ancient languages, Sanskrit, Hebrew, Latin, Greek and even in English, these terms have their etymological roots in “breeze” and “breath”. The ancients observed that when the last breath was gone, the body was dead, So, they figured out that something invisibly “wind-like” is the life- principle. Had they known about dark-matter and its possible chemistries they could have attributed the “soul or spirit” to the “dark twin”. Bio Dark-Matter Chemistry is indeed taboo today. Because it implies the possibility of “light” and “dark” twin bodies co-created at the moment of conception. That almost sounds like existence of “spirit’ or “soul”.
Definitions are very important here, especially when multicultural studies are involved. English language is nourished and enriched by the Bible (particularly the KJV). The Bible divides the world into heathen (foreign, strange, Gentile) and non-heathen [The Redeemed of Adonai (plural) YHWH (singular) Elohim (uni-plural)]. The word pagan (pan-Gaia-n, earthling or earth-worshipper) is of more recent origin than KJV. Redemption in the Old Testament and the New Testament is on the principle of “grace” in the cancellation of the universal Death Sentence by the vicarious death of the Sentencer as in Genesis 3:15-19 (the Protoevangelium), which you have also referred to, as the Lamb ordained before and slain from the foundation of the world (1Peter 1:19-20 , Revelation 13:8).
“Not He begets and not He is begotten” of the Koran 112 may be applicable to Adonai (plural) but not the prophetic Incarnation of YHWH (singular) in the form of the Messiah at Bethlehem. Here, Infinity1 + Infinity2 + Infinity3 = 1 Infinity. A unitary deity is a solitary, solipsistic being with no communication with anybody other than oneself possible.
Philip Benjamin
[Samiya Illias]
“Salam alaikum” https://signsandscience.blogspot.com/2020/06/draft-all-about-nafs.html Say, "He (is) Allah, the One. Allah, the Eternal, the Absolute. Not He begets and not He is begotten. And not is for Him equivalent any [one]." [Al-Quran 112]. And be not like those who forgot Allah, so He made them forget their own nafs... [Al-Quran 59:19]
Purpose
The purpose of this study is to try understand what the nafs is, and where it lies in the human body.
The Quran repeatedly mentions the nafs. Sins are committing injustices against the nafs, and we are warned against making changes in the nafs. Our nafs is removable from our body. It is in pledge. The Quran warns of the loss of the nafs in the Hereafter, and it is described as the most depriving dispossession, the extreme loss!
https://signsandscience.blogspot.com/2017/05/human-body-or-soul.html
The Bible and The Quran both inform us that we are made of dust:
[Bible, Genesis 3:19] In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread till thou return unto the ground, for out of it was thou taken; for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.”
[Al-Quran, ar-Rum 30:20] And among His Signs (is) that He created you from dust then behold! You (are) human beings dispersing.
We all know that we have a body that is composed of earthly materials. Religious people generally believe that they are a SOUL that is temporarily staying in the body. Atheists do not believe in the existence of a SOUL.
Jews, Christians and Muslims (People of the Book) shroud and bury the body of their dead. Hindus (Polytheists) burn many of their dead and crush the remaining bones into dust. More on Funeral Rites in References and Further Reading at the end of this post.
From: Philip Benjamin
Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2021 9:39 AM
To: Donald Naysmith <don...@cardonconsulting.net>; Caroline Naysmith (Caro...@cardonconsulting.net) <caro...@cardonconsulting.net>
Subject: FW: [Consciousness-Online] FW: Falling Outward (was: Words, definitions, and Many "Worlds")
From:
everyth...@googlegroups.com <everyth...@googlegroups.com>
On Behalf Of Samiya Illias
Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2021 11:22 PM
To: everyth...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [Consciousness-Online] FW: Falling Outward (was: Words, definitions, and Many "Worlds")
Salam alaikum
These might be of interest:
So, I think we are saying the same thing here. Therefore the issue is, why do we seem to be disagreeing with one another. I think I can begin to perceive an answer when you say.
What is more rational? Dead matter having aseity or LIFE having aseity. Dead matter cannot produce life. LIFE can produce dead matter and life.
Then this more or less equates with my view.
Philip Benjamin
everyth...@googlegroups.com Subject: RE: [Consciousness-Online] FW: Falling Outward (was: Words, definitions, and Many "Worlds")
[Philip Benjamin]
There is a formal fallacy when the reasoning or inferences are incorrect or when there is any violation of the rules of cognitive actions within the argumentation. Recognizing logical fallacies of any general procedure is useful for the correction of beliefs based on that procedure. One has to stick with the same frame of reference in any reasonable argument. Integers and points belong to two different frames of reference. To bring them into the same reference frame is a logical fallacy.
“Logic and critical thinking skills are a disappearing art form today. As a result of postmodern, relativistic philosophies, in their place are often contradictory and foolish arguments.” John Loeffler.
Philip Benjamin
From:
everyth...@googlegroups.com <everyth...@googlegroups.com>
On Behalf Of John Clark
Sent: Friday, February 19, 2021 4:14 AM
To: everyth...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [Consciousness-Online] FW: Falling Outward (was: Words, definitions, and Many "Worlds")
On Thu, Feb 18, 2021 at 10:50 AM Philip Benjamin <medin...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Infinity1 + Infinity2 + Infinity3 = 1 Infinity.
Not necessarily. Not if "1 Infinity" Is the number of integers and "infinity2" or "infinity3" is the number of points on a line.
.
Philip Benjamin
everyth...@googlegroups.com Subject: RE: [Consciousness-Online] FW: Falling Outward (was: Words, definitions, and Many "Worlds")
[Philip Benjamin]
This an example of the fallacy of irrelevance, an irrelevant conclusion ( ignoratio elenchi is Latin for ''ignoring refutation'' or missing the point). It is the informal fallacy of presenting an argument (that may or may not be logically valid and sound), where the conclusion fails to address the issue in question. What the biospherical ‘light matter’ is to astrophysical light matter is what Bio dark-matter is to astrophysical dark-matter. Where matter exists, chemistry exists. The source of biophotons is still not clearly settled. The weak interactions between ‘light’ and ‘dark’ chemical bonds (spin governed particle configurations) could very well be the source.
Philip Benjamin
From: 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List <everyth...@googlegroups.com> Sent: Thursday, February 18, 2021 1:55 PM Subject: Re: [Consciousness-Online] FW: Falling Outward (was: Words, definitions, and Many "Worlds")
It's not "taboo". It's non-existent because we don't know what dark-matter is. It's like saying the genetics of Big Foot are taboo because we're not studying them. There are an infinite number to "possibilities"
that are not being studies for the simple reason that nobody thinks they're worth the time to study. So dark-matter chemistry is a wide open field, Phil. Go for it.
Brent
On 2/18/2021 7:50 AM, Philip Benjamin wrote:
Bio Dark-Matter Chemistry is indeed taboo today. Because it implies the possibility of “light” and “dark” twin bodies co-created at the moment of conception. That almost sounds like existence of “spirit’ or “soul”.
.
Rosemary Rock-Evans
https://allaboutheaven.org/science/Dark-matter
hope this helps
rosie
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From: "Philip Benjamin" <medin...@hotmail.com>
To: "general...@googlegroups.com" <general...@googlegroups.com>
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Philip Benjamin
The “Cosmic Egg” as “dark-matter” is an equivocation fallacy. Philip
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Philip Benjamin
everyth...@googlegroups.com Subject: RE: [Consciousness-Online] FW: Falling Outward (was: Words, definitions, and Many "Worlds")
[John Clark]
It is entirely right to sate: “400 years ago Galileo found a way of converting one reference frame to another that worked very well as long as the speeds involved we're not extremely large, and when they were Einstein found a way 100 years ago that could be used to develop an entirely consistent way of converting one reference frame into another that also conformed with all known experimental results”.
There is no logical fallacy here. The fallacy arises when categories are mixed in the two separate frames of reference. “Mixing categories” is not “converting reference-frames”. Infinity1 (odd numbers) + Infinity2 (even numbers) + Infinity3 (odd + even) = 1 Infinity (numbers). The essence here is “numbers”. To go back to Samiya Illias comment on Koranic eternally solitary, solipsistic Unitary-ness vs Scriptural (Augustinian) Triunity-ness, One essence three Persons of the aseitous Adonai (plural) YHWH (singular) Elohim (uni-plural) is eternally Communicative and is no logical fallacy.
Philip Benjmain
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From:
everyth...@googlegroups.com <everyth...@googlegroups.com>
On Behalf Of John Clark
Sent: Friday, February 19, 2021 1:27 PM
Subject: Re: [Consciousness-Online] FW: Falling Outward (was: Words, definitions, and Many "Worlds")
On Fri, Feb 19, 2021 at 10:13 AM Philip Benjamin <medin...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> One has to stick with the same frame of reference in any reasonable argument.
No, you are entirely wrong and way way behind the times. 400 years ago Galileo found a way of converting one reference frame to another that worked very well as long as the speeds involved we're not extremely large, and when they were Einstein found a way 100 years ago that could be used to develop an entirely consistent way of converting one reference frame into another that also conformed with all known experimental results, and It even worked when the reference frames were accelerating.
< Integers and points belong to two different frames of reference. To bring them into the same reference frame is a logical fallacy.
Numbers have no units, therefore 10 apples and 10 oranges have one thing in common, the integer 10. It's the same 10 in both cases. And all the positive integers have something in common with all the negative integers, Aleph-0. That sort of generality is the very reason mathematics is such a useful tool and helping us figure out how the world works. If that were not true mathematics would not be of much use or interest.
John K Clark
Rosemary Rock-Evans
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Philip Benjamin
From: Philip Benjamin Saturday, February 20, 2021 2:23 PM everyth...@googlegroups.com Subject: RE: [Consciousness-Online] FW: Falling Outward (was: Words, definitions, and Many "Worlds")
[Philip Benjamin]
The premise “If "1Infinity" Is the number of odd integers and "2infinity" is the number of even integers and 3infinity" is the number of points” is actually, “Infinity1 (odd integers) + Infinity2 (even integers) + Infinity3 (odd + even) = 1 Infinity (numbers). Points do not mix with numbers in the same frame of reference.
As for Muhammad, he is a historical fact: 300-700 years of domination in Western Europe (from Italy to Spain), still dominant in Eastern and central Europe and the old Byzantine Empire, 1000 years in India (eventually the British Empire stopped it, India became free from Britain, probably never could have from Muslim rulers). There was indeed a “change of consciousness” by forced conversions.
That is not what “transformed” the civilized and erudite Phoenician pagan Augustine (of Greco-Roman roots). It was a free and willing obedience to what he considered a “call” (https://www.midwestaugustinians.org/conversion-of-st-augustine), through the instrumentality of a child’s song. Science cannot ignore the facts of history. Augustinian transformation of individual consciousness contributed to creating an atmosphere for science and technology to develop. Islam forced conversion of mathematicians and scientists and artists of an Augustinian ethos. In fact European nations would not have explored new ocean routes to the East, if the Muslim rulers had not closed the land routes to the East. (Most probably India might still have been under Muslim rule). There is a noticeable historical difference between “Koranic change” and “Scriptural Quickening or Regeneration” of individual consciousness.
Nafs is an Arabic word used in the Quran, literally meaning “self“. I is translated as “psyche”, “ego” or “soul”. In the Quran, the word is used in both the individualistic (verse 2:48) and collective sense (verse 4:1). The soul/spirit in the Scriptures is always individualistic. As I have mentioned in the previous post ancient languages such as Hebrew, Sanskrit, Greek and Latin have soul/spirit derived from the roots of Breath/breeze. When the last breath was gone, life ceased. So the ancients considered soul/spirit of life as something akin to wind. Had they known bio dark matter with its chemistry, most likely they might have used that instead!!!
Philip Benjamin
From:
everyth...@googlegroups.com <everyth...@googlegroups.com>
On Behalf Of John Clark
Sent: Saturday, February 20, 2021 12:32 PM
To: everyth...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [Consciousness-Online] FW: Falling Outward (was: Words, definitions, and Many "Worlds")
On Sat, Feb 20, 2021 at 9:42 AM Philip Benjamin <medin...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> You are entirely right to sate: “400 years ago Galileo found a way of converting one reference frame to another that worked very well as long as the speeds involved we're not extremely large, and when they were Einstein found a way 100 years ago that could be used to develop an entirely consistent way of converting one reference frame into another that also conformed with all known experimental results”. There is no logical fallacy here. The fallacy arises when categories are mixed in the two separate frames of reference.
Your first mistake was using the term "frames of reference" because it's used appropriately in physics but not in pure mathematics, such as the study of infinity in set theory, and not in philosophy, and you were doing both.
> “Mixing categories” is not “converting reference-frames”. Infinity1 (odd numbers) + Infinity2 (even numbers) + Infinity3 (odd + even) = 1 Infinity (numbers). The essence here is “numbers”.
No, you're still dead wrong. If "1Infinity" Is the number of odd integers and "2infinity" is the number of even integers and "3infinity" is the number of points on a line then 1Infinity + 2infinity is NOT equal to the 3infinity number.
> To go back to Samiya Illias comment on Koranic [blah blah]
No thanks, I'd rather not go back to the silly myths an obscure iron age tribe had 1,400 years ago. Humanity has been there and done that, it's time to look for something better, much better. With a mountain of important relevant new information being discovered every day giving us clues into the nature of reality why anybody would be willing to spend one nanosecond studying this ancient nonsense is beyond me.
John K Clark See what's on my new list at Extropolis
.
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Philip Benjamin
[Philip Benjamin]
Mystic fancy is categorically different from scientific facts.
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Rosemary Rock-Evans
xxx
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Philip Benjamin
[Philip Benjamin]
Pythagoreans also must have had a subtle sense of humor! Thanks for your encouraging note in the last post of “go for it [bio dark-matter chemistry]”. Why don’t you come along?
Whether the inquisitive “ancients” or the hard-nosed “moderns”, all have a common enemy “death” [the Sentence of Death]. The responses of Pagans and Non-pagans are poles apart. It is falsely attributed to “Left” & “Right” in politics. Augustine the pagan (pre-transformation) was ignorant or indifferent of after-life, Augustine the non-pagan (post-transformation) was absolutely confident and joyful of after-life. That was a turning point in Western history and also indirectly for the rest of the pagan histories. WAMP-the-Ingrate is the stealing beneficiary of that Augustinian Trust!!! WAMP = Western Acade-Media Pagan(ism).
Philip Benjamin
From: 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List <everyth...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 20, 2021 3:44 PM
To: everyth...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [Consciousness-Online] FW: Falling Outward (was: Words, definitions, and Many "Worlds")
On 2/20/2021 12:22 PM, Philip Benjamin wrote:
When the last breath was gone, life ceased. So the ancients considered soul/spirit of life as something akin to wind.
That's why the Pythagoreans forbade eating beans.
Brent .
Philip Benjamin
everyth...@googlegroups.com Cc: general...@googlegroups.com Subject: RE: [Consciousness-Online] FW: Falling Outward (was: Words, definitions, and Many "Worlds")