WESTMORLAND GAZETTE, KENDAL, Saturday May 30 1891 / HEBBLETHWAITE, &c.
Barb Baker
====================================================
HEBBLETHWAITE &c..
"J.C.," of Hawes, writing in the Yorkshire Weekly Post, is sorry he is
unable to give the information required respecting this family. The
HEBBLETHWAITES, he says, were in existence as a family in England long
before the Normans ever thought of crossing the English Channel, as the name
itself "HEBBLE" and "THWAITE" is clearly of Anglo-Danish or Anglo-Saxon
origin. HEBBLE to this day in the "North Countree" is used to denote the
topstone on the wall of a bridge or other building, while "THWAITE" is the
old Danish affix meaning a forest clearing.
The name, continued "J.C.," I therefore take to mean one who lived at the
head or top of a clearing in the forest. Many of our North country names
are of the same origin. FAWCETT for example, I take to be from FAW or FORS,
a waterfall, and SETT means against or over. FAWCETT means one who lived
against or near to a waterfall.
Many who speak of their forefathers as having come with the Normans would,
if they took the trouble to look out the derivation of their names, find
their forefathers were in England to meet the Normans.
Many other Cumberland, Westmorland, North Lancashire, and Yorkshire dale
names are as pure strangers to any connection with the Conqueror's followers
as they are to the North American Indians or the Maories.
There are THWAITES, SATTERTHWAITE, THISTLETHWAITE, APPLETHWAITE,
BASSENTHWAITE, CORNTHWAITE, MURTHWAITE, CURTHWAITE, HALLTHWAITE, and
many others in the North, where it is well known the purest bred
representatives of the ancient inhabitants of Britain are still to be found.
The names GATH, KIRK, BECK, FELL, HOLMES, SWAINSON, NELSON, NANSON,
YATES, ALDERSON, KIRKBY, MOORE, and SEDGWICK are all AngloSaxon or
AngloDanish.
Few dales family names have any connection whatever with the Normans.
GARTH - a field, hence such names as APPLEGARTH, MOORGARTH, WOODGARTH,
MILLGARTH, STACKGARTH.
KIRK - a church, Kirkby a house or dwelling near to a church, &c.
BECK - a stream, Beckwith, by a stream, &c.
FELL - a hill.
HOLM - an island.
There are many families of GARTHS, KIRKS, BECKS, FELLS, and HOLMES in
the dales of Cumberland, Westmorland, and Yorkshire.
Names ending with 'sen' afford many instances of Anglo-Saxon and Danish
origin of family names. SEN - SON. So we have SWAINSON, NELSON, NANSON,
THOMSON, JOHNSON, &c.
TON - an enclosure, hence we have HETHERINGTON, or the enclosure among the
heather, i.e., the man who lived or owned the enclosure on the moor.
Again, BALDERSON and BALDERSTON, or BALDERSTONE, are derived from the son
of BALDER and the stone of BALDER, and is without doubt of Norse origin.
DINSDALE is another of Saxon origin, and means one who lived in a noisy dale
or in a dale of waterfalls, and, in fact, most of our purely North-country
names were used to designate individuals who lived at or near to certain
peculiar characteristics of the country.
In Wensleydale, ' sett ' is often the affix to place names, as Countersett,
Mar-sett, Aper-sett, Burter-sett, meaning, I suppose, against the other,
spoil the other, against or opposite the crab trees, and against or opposite
the bur or alder trees.
=======================================================
Petra Mitchinson
Petra
Liz Telford
somewhere and go back in time then come back to now and report "the real
story" - I know, I have a fanciful imagination!
Liz
Barb Baker
the series) as Clair tries to decide if she will "walk through the stones"
to return to her gallant Scot, Jamie Fraser, who survived the battle at
Culleden.
Barb.
Liz Telford
happens. Diana's books are where I first got the fanciful idea of "walking
through the stones". I wonder if I was to go to the Castlerigg Stone Circle
at Keswick at dawn on - now, should it be the longest day or midsummer's
day? If I chose the right stone ....... (cue The Twilight Zone music) ....
yes, very fanciful imagination. I'd meet the Druids though and that would
be interesting in itself.
Just think what I might be able to report about all our rellies though, I'll
bet we've all got some well-buried skeletons in the closets. I've
discovered a couple of mine but I'm sure there are bound to be more of them.
Can certainly recommend Diana Gabaldon's books if no-one else has read
them - cracking good reads ("a cracking good read" is my highest accolade!)
Liz
----- Original Message -----
From: "Barb Baker" <bbak...@sympatico.ca>
To: <Genealogy-...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 14, 2008 10:32 PM
Subject: [CUL GOOGLIES] Re: WESTMORLAND GAZETTE, KENDAL, Saturday May 30
1891 / HEBBLETHWAITE, &c.
>
Barb Baker
the final battle at Culleden a short time ago, that I realized those
articles were about the first two books that I had read. My dear "out of
town" friend has just supplied me with book #3 and book #4. The reading
means so much more, when you have transcribed the ' actual ' reports of what
happened Oh-so-many years ago.
Cracking good read, INDEED.
Barb.
-----
Petra Mitchinson
Midsummer's day (21st June) IS the longest day!! In spite of its name, it is the beginning of summer.
Petra
Barb Baker
Liz Telford
they were the same - we (as usual) argued this so I googled - I knew that
the longest day was 21st June but there was a site (can't remember which
now) that stated that midsummer's day was June 24th.
I had always thought that the longest day was midsummer's day. I hope he
hasn't won a pint wrongly from my google information!
Petra Mitchinson
Now, St. John the Baptist's saint day is on the 24th of June, allegedly his birthday - for the same reason that Jesus was allegedly born on the night of the 24th of December. St. John said about Jesus words to the effect that "He must increase, but I must decrease". So their days were chosen that John was born on the day when the days start to get shorter again, and Jesus on the day when the days start getting longer again.
However, that does not prove which is midsummer's day.
Wikipedia has these interesting pieces of information:
Midsummer may simply refer to the period of time centered upon the summer solstice, but more often refers to specific European celebrations that accompany the actual solstice, or that take place 24 June and the preceding evening, related to the birthday of Saint John the Baptist. European midsummer-related holidays, traditions and celebrations, many of which are pre-Christian in origin and have been Christianised as celebrating the Nativity of St. John the Baptist as "Saint John's Day" festivals, are particularly important in Latvia, Lithuania, Norway, Denmark, Sweden, Finland and Estonia, but found also in Ireland, parts of Britain (Cornwall especially), France, Italy, Malta, Portugal, Spain, in other parts of Europe and elsewhere, such as Canada, the United States, and even in the Southern Hemisphere (Brazil), where this imported European celebration would be more appropriately called Midwinter.
Midsummer is also sometimes referred to by neo-pagans and some others as Litha, stemming from Bede's De temporum ratione in which he gave the Anglo-Saxon names for the months roughly corresponding to June and July as "se Ærra Liþa" and "se Æfterra Liþa" (the "early Litha month" and the "later Litha month") with an intercalary month of "Liþa" appearing after se Æfterra Liþa on leap years. The fire festival or Lith- Summer solstice is a tradition for may pagans.
Solstitial celebrations still centre upon 24 June, which is no longer the longest day of the year. The difference between the Julian calendar year (365.2500 days) and the tropical year (365.2422 days) moved the day associated with the actual astronomical solstice forward approximately three days every four centuries, until Pope Gregory XIII changed the calendar bringing the solstice to around 21 June. In the Gregorian calendar, the solstice moves around a bit but in the long term it moves only about one day in 3000 years.
At least they state clearly that the 24th June is NOT the longest day, but it is still by some regarded as midsummer's day, whereas others celebrate on 21st June. So it seems you and your brother are both right!
You learn something new every day...
Petra
Liz Telford
amused to find we are both right though! Little sisters are NOT supposed to
know as much as big brother does and she certainly shouldn't be able to say
"it's a draw". He was thrilled to think that I was wrong about both being
the same (although to be fair, he'd have acknowledged my being right - even
though he wouldn't have been thrilled!) We still argue as much as we used
to but in a different way these days and we'd both defend each other to the
hilt and we're the best of friends and thoroughly enjoy spending time
together. It's a boon that my OH and S-I-L get on well too and we all enjoy
being together - doesn't stop "robust" debates though (we're all "big
gobs").
Geo.
Petra, my brother was around the other day and asked about them and I said
they were the same - we (as usual) argued this so I googled - I knew that
the longest day was 21st June but there was a site (can't remember which
now) that stated that midsummer's day was June 24th.
I had always thought that the longest day was midsummer's day. I hope he
hasn't won a pint wrongly from my google information!
Liz
Geo.
Well, the writer may of course be correct in saying that these PLACE NAMES were of the Anglo-Saxon or Anglo-Danish languages, but surnames did not really come into general use until about the 14th century. People were often, as he says quite correctly, named after the place where they lived - but if the place name was Anglo-Saxon, that does not prove that the person who took on the place name where they lived as their surname was of that ethnic extraction!
Petra
> "J.C.," of Hawes, writing in the Yorkshire Weekly Post, is sorry he is
> unable to give the information required respecting this family. The
> HEBBLETHWAITES, he says, were in existence as a family in England long
> before the Normans ever thought of crossing the English Channel, as the name
> itself "HEBBLE" and "THWAITE" is clearly of Anglo-Danish or Anglo-Saxon
> origin.
<snip>