Hysteria Project 2 Psp Highly Compressed

[Geppe Warton]

Im seeing a lot of righteous anger directed at those who are climbing wet sandstone, and that is understandable and justified. Here is some constructive criticism with some actions I think could be taken to reduce the problem a bit. Apologies for long post.

Here is the thought process I think people are using when they come to visit Red Rocks. My evidence is that it was my thought process before coming here. It starts with a scan of the map on MP for regions in the southwest, looking for ones that have favorable climbing weather in winter/spring. Upon finding Red Rocks, it seems pretty ideal. They investigate further and see the rain & wet rock warning. OK, no climbing if the sand at the base is wet. Simple enough. So, how long will that usually take? For information about this, MP says "After a heavy storm the rock will remain wet, sometimes for several days," and the only other source given is wet rock police, which strongly implies that 3 days is roughly the maximum amount of time you would ever need to wait after rain.* At the time, they have nothing else to go on, so they think "cool, if it rains we'll just climb limestone for 3 days, no big deal." Then they get here and learn that it's probably actually more like a several week wait if it rains hard. Crap.

"Well, at least there's all that world-class limestone nearby that's almost as inspiring as Red Rocks, we read about it when we planned our trip, remember? Having that as a backup is part of why we decided to come." So on their first day they go check out Gun Range or Lone Mountain. Now, I know that opinions differ and I don't mean to offend anyone. I'm just telling you what I think most visitors are going to think (and in fact I heard multiple groups saying so when I was there on 3/12). Most people are going to think something like, "this place is worse than my home crag. I didn't come all the way out here to climb this!" Then they check the weather for the next day at Potosi, Charleston, Lime Kiln, VRG, St. George etc, and see that they're all too cold/hard/far away. At this point they start making excuses. "It's basically dry, right? It's no big deal if one group climbs on rock that's basically dry anyway. We came all the way out here, we deserve at least one day of good climbing." And then you get those people climbing wet sandstone the next day.

Before anyone protests, I'm not saying it is your responsibility to educate people or that it isn't their own job to do the right thing or anything like that. Also, obviously this will not eliminate everyone climbing on wet rock, being optimistic maybe it would decrease it by like a few percent or something (but it's an easy + free intervention to take so why not just do it and take the free benefit?) I'm saying it is in your own best interest to heavily publicize the full extent of the true, major downsides of visiting Red Rocks, in the places online that people are most likely to look, and that isn't happening right now. I'm seriously baffled as to why this hasn't happened already, years ago, since this seems to be such a big problem. Currently the MP description does a great job of playing up how awesome Red Rocks is ("Red Rock: a few thousand routes, generally warm weather, every kind climbing from short sport routes to big 20-pitch outings, nearby Las Vegas for off-rock activities. Who could ask for more?") and a terrible job explaining the risks.

Put another way: right now, the online literature is basically untruthfully skewed in a direction that causes more people to come climb at Red Rocks, who wouldn't have come/would have gone somewhere else if they had just been told the truth, and that everyone would be better off if that were the case, including the visitors themselves. I'm saying that I myself wish that the full truth about what it's really like here had been put right up front in my face when I was doing my research, so I could have chosen somewhere else. It would have been better for me, since I could have gone somewhere where I could actually climb what I wanted to, and it would have been better for you, since that's a few less people in the crowd at the crags every weekend, and most people similar to me probably aren't as scrupulous about climbing on wet rock as I am. Some of the comments I have read in other threads, I get the feeling that the commenter is actually glad that people are climbing on wet rock, because they like the feeling of self-righteousness more than they care about people not climbing on wet rock...

*I am aware that MP specifically says not to just go off what wet rock police says. My point is, people have no other information to go off, and they have no reason not to trust that the wet rock police estimate isn't at least in the ballpark of being correct, since the whole reason it exists is to encourage them to make responsible choices. Why not just tell the truth and say "Generally, you should avoid climbing between 24 hours to 4 weeks after rain, depending on weather conditions and where you intend to climb. Because of this, planning a trip to visit Red Rocks is much more likely to result in weather-related disappointment than other areas like EPC, the Owens River Gorge, etc."? Or something like that. On the whole, I unfortunately feel that the website in its current state does more harm than good.

Isaac, I didn't see where you mentioned what I at least think would be the most useful thing that concerned and conscientious people locally can do: observe and document actual current conditions and post them here. Weather is widely various in this large valley, and to those of us who live and work in other parts of it, the reports from people who have been out hiking around the conservation area are sometimes--especially this winter--quite surprising, if one's only other information resource is basically NOAA. My point being, if it's improbable even for local residents to know the status of the crags, one cannot expect more from visitors.

Here's something like what I would rather see at the top of the MP page for Red Rocks that I wrote up in like 20 minutes. I guess it's probably too long and people just wouldn't read it but clearly I prefer to read/write long posts. Obviously it could be improved upon but at least it's closer to the truth and more complete than what's written there right now IMO.

Sandstone becomes fragile when wet. Climbing on sandstone after it has rained (even if the rock is dry to the touch) is dangerous. Rock breaking can lead to unexpected falls, rockfall onto belayers/climbers below, bolts pulling from holes, etc. By the ethics of today's climbing communtiy, it is also immoral. Key holds can be (and have been!*) pulled off thus changing the nature of routes forever, rock can be ripped out around gear placements, bolt holes grow larger when weighted thus necessitating early replacement, etc. For both locals and visitors, climbing after rain is wrong.

The best test of whether the rock is dry enough to climb at a given location is dry, powdery sand at the base to a depth of 3 inches. This is because sandstone is like a sponge made of compressed sand. It can hold water underneath the surface even after the rock is dry to the touch. It take a similar amount of thermal energy to dry 3 inches of sand at the base as it does to dry the rock enough to be safe to climb. How long this takes varies widely. Time in direct sunlight, high temperatures, low humidity, and wind tend to dry the rock faster (and inversely, the lack of any of those factors will increase the time until the rock is climbable). Rough estimates of how long to wait before climbing after rain [numbers made up but probably already closer than just saying "24 to 72 hours" or "several days"]:

Also note that most climbing areas in Red Rocks receive more rain than is reported in Las Vegas or at the visitor center weather station. The best source for recent rain accumulation is _______, and assume XYZ% more accumulation at the base of cliffs than reported there.

If you plan a trip to Red Rocks, you must be prepared for the eventuality that the weather before/during your trip will not be what you had hoped, and that you will not be able to climb sandstone. It is not acceptable to climb wet sandstone, full stop. It does not matter that you waited 3 months, bought an expensive plane ticket, and traveled 3,000 miles. It is not OK to just climb the one classic project you've been looking forward to for so long, and then stop. If you feel that your trip will be waste if you don't climb wet sandstone, and so you climb wet sandstone, then make no mistake, you are doing something morally wrong.

**Also, be aware that all the non-sandstone alternatives have serious compromises to be aware of (the local limestone crags e.g. Gun Club, Lone Mountain, Blue Diamond are NOT as destination-worthy as Red Rocks, Potosi is colder, Charleston is much colder, Lime Kiln is colder and 2 hours away, VRG has no moderates, etc, etc, etc.) If you make a trip to Las Vegas and it rains/has rained when you arrive, and you climb limestone the first day of your trip, you may feel disappointed. This does not excuse you to climb sandstone the following days of your trip. You may well go home at the end of your trip feeling very disappointed with the entire visit. Strongly consider this before you commit to traveling to Las Vegas to climb.

If this was the information we had gotten before we decided to come here, we probably would have gone somewhere else instead. And while we haven't climbed sandstone since it first rained this month, I bet there are lots more very much like us who have.

It has been an unusually cold and wet winter all over the west, including in the Vegas Valley. It takes a minimal amount of effort/research to find this out. The onus is on the climber to do the research on the areas they will visit (beyond just MP), the weather, the current conditions, the local ethic, alternatives in case of bad weather, etc. There is so much climbing within a 5 hour drive, it is pretty easy to find an alternative. Hell, when I visited Red Rock before moving here and it rained I would just drive the 3.5 hours to Joshua Tree, and on one trip I drove to Sedona when it was wet here but dry over there. If you are already travelling from Michigan or wherever then what's the big deal about driving a few hours to visit another world class climbing destination? Or just go out for some hiking/scrambling in Red Rock and see some beautiful canyons/spots that most climbers never see? Or visit some wonderful hot springs that our area has to offer? Or go canoeing in the black canyon? Or visit Zion or the Grand Canyon? Or rent a mountain bike and try not to crash into a cactus? Or head up to Utah for some skiing? Yeah, I get people travel here to climb, but sometimes that just doesn't work out. Fortunately you are in a beautiful area with access to many different outdoor adventures. Yes there may be "downsides" to visiting the area, but I see opportunity, it's a matter of perspective.

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