Playing notes

[Gaz Williams]

Hi Geert, Gaz Williams here. Just got Geco, can you tell me please, is it possible to play midi notes like a theremin using Geco? I see that it just sends controller data but I wondered if there was a workaround? Apologies if this is really simple and have missed it. Can you run two leap motion apps simultaneously otherwise?

I really want to make a smooth theremin like instrument with as much multi dimensional control as possible. I love the look of Geco for setting up advanced controller ideas though!

www.Gazwilliams.me

[Geert Bevin]

Hi Gaz,

Thanks for reaching out.

It's on purpose that GECO doesn't send out MIDI notes, since MIDI really doesn't suit itself for theremin-like playing. You have distinct notes from which there are pitch-bend amounts that don't have fixed note distances. So this requires the user to both calibrate on the sending and the receiving end, just to make the distance between the notes bend correctly. There's another problem after that in the note-retriggering of most software synths. As soon as you switch to another note, the beginning of the envelopes play, meaning that you'll have to start from one note and work with large pitch-bend distances, reducing the resolution a lot. Finally, those large pitch bend distances are not the same on all synths, some only accept 12 semitones, while others do 24 and a few 48. In short, it's really a mess coming from MIDI. If I would support this in MIDI, you'll have to be configuring things both in GECO and in the target synth.

Therefore, I sort of expect people that want to do this sort of thing to be knowledgeable enough to not use MIDI. GECO can send each data stream in full precision using both OSC and CopperLan. For instance, here I'm doing a 3D theremin going over CopperLan to directly output CV: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRHcDuiF-60

I have plans to support note triggering when the capabilities of the Leap Motion controller improve. They're current working on supporting finger touches and I think that this will be a nice way to play the trigger-based note approach of MIDI.

At the moment you can't run two Leap Motion controllers on the same machine. As soon as this is supported through the software, I'll put support for it in GECO. 

Hope this helps,

Geert


On 27 Jan 2014 at 08:55:07, Gaz Williams (gazgo...@gmail.com) wrote:
>

>
From: Gaz Williams <gazgo...@gmail.com>

>
To: geco...@googlegroups.com
Subject:
> [geco] Playing notes
Date: 27 Jan 2014 04:47:38
> GMT+1

--
>
Everything related to Geco can be found on http://uwyn.com/geco
---
>
You received this message because you are subscribed
> to the Google Groups "Geco" group.
To unsubscribe from
> this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to
> geco-app+u...@googlegroups.com.
To post to
> this group, send email to geco...@googlegroups.com.
For
> more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.

[Gaz Williams]

Thank you Geert for your swift and comprehensive reply! That's going to save me quite a bit of head scratching that' s for sure!

I have to say though, your app is extremely well designed with a lot of excellent design ideas and usability. The effort you have gone to with your in depth tutorials is really above and beyond the call of duty, superb work sir!

[Geert Bevin]

Thanks a lot Gaz, glad that you appreciate the effort that I put into all those 'extras'.

I'm working on the next version of GECO at the moment that will provide more advanced mapping options, in case the data output needs to be fine-tuned even more. Don't hesitate to reach out with suggestions or feature requests if you have any.

Take care,

Geert

On 27 Jan 2014 at 14:32:48, Gaz Williams (gazgo...@gmail.com) wrote:
>

>
From: Gaz Williams <gazgo...@gmail.com>

>
To: geco...@googlegroups.com
Subject:

> [geco] Re: Playing notes
Date: 27 Jan 2014
> 14:32:41 GMT+1

[Yoram Ariel]

Gaz and Geert,

    Great info and very encouraging.

    I think note support is in order, I think the controller has the potential to allow playing of (hopefully beautiful) music.

    My suggested approach to achieving this is not for theremin like playing but rather triggering of individual notes with a fixed length while they are tonally sequenced using pre programmed scales. If you break up the whole MIDI note range using a sideways gesture into two or three octaves worth of a musical scale it can give you a usable and creative pallet. Scale note triggering can be glissando like by gesturing sideways or notes can be pecked using forward motion. Changing the height can for instance change the note length, if possible then pecking velocity will change velocity, both hands can control different scales and sounds at the same time or solo playing with scale note triggering using left hand and controlling other sound parameters at the same time with the right.

    Sounds a bit like fantasy, I know, there are probably a bunch of stumbling blocks on the way to accomplishing this not to mention the investment in resources, but it does sound for the most doable.

    On the bright side it could be commercially popular. If you manage to self contain the whole music system end to end, then you can give users the experience of creating their own music using gestures, diverse, colorful and tonally accurate. The scales can be pre chosen to fit certain styles and atmospheres, playbacks can be added in correlation with the scales allowing for a wide range of performances and exploration. More dreams, yes.

    I would probably attempt at some point to experiment with this approach by way of, Geco, LoopBe, Virtual MIDI Controller, Bome's MIDI Translator Pro, Hotz MIDI Translator, Ableton Live and some software synths, but it may take some time. Any help on your end in the form of note support would be appreciated.

Thanks.

Yoram Ariel

[Geert Bevin]

Hi Yoram,

Thanks for your suggestion, I've considered doing this and there is already a Leap Motion Airharp that does this. While it sounds nice, I fail to see the real usefulness of this besides a short initial coolness factor. Just waving your hands through scales ... seems not very useful as a real musical instrument. Since there are a lot of cool things that can be imagined, I try to keep GECO focused on things that I can see performing musicians use to uniquely express themselves live. I don't intend GECO to become the kitchen sink of gesture control mappings for music.

As I said to Gaz, I am working on note support together with Leap Motion who are working on a new tracking algorithm that has the potential to reliably detect finger touches (thumb to index, thumb to middle finger, thumb to ring finger, thumb to pinky). When combining this with two handed combinations, it's possible to play two octaves of a scale in a completely deterministic way. There's even a slight chance that the position on the other finger that you touch could be used for intensity, volume or velocity. Since this is completely orthogonal to the existing GECO gestures, it would allow you to still use the hand movements for all the existing gestural expression.

Neither Leap nor I know when this will be ready, but we're actively working on it. Eventually, I think that this will turn GECO in a much nicer note-driven instrument than just waving your hands through a virtual grid that triggers notes.

Sorry for not being more enthusiast about your suggestion.

Take care,

Geert 

[Yoram Ariel]

Geert,

    Your prompt and sincere reply is appreciated. By all means keep focused. I support your efforts and am looking forward to future Geco developments for note support.

Thanks.

Yoram.

[DrJeep]

Hello Geert,
After purchasing the LEAP motion controller and your software I can only echo Gaz and Yorams idea for more control of the MIDI commands, I jumped in feet first without fully understanding your softwares concept so this is in no way a knock at your software.
Would it not be possible to have a user defined MIDI message simply inserting into a user defined MIDI message string from GECO's gesture and postion data.
For instance [user defined status byte] [GECO Position data byte] [GECO Gesture data byte].

Many thanks,
Daz

[Geert Bevin]

Hi Daz,

Thanks for voicing your request. Notes will come,  as I said before, but when it's implemented into GECO it will make musical sense and not be a gimmick. If you're at the level of understanding individual bytes in MIDI messages, it should be pretty trivial to use the OSC or MIDI streams to trigger notes when you want them to play.

Take care,

Geert

> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>

[Marcel van As]

Hi all,

I also have been looking into this, and asked developers (geert) if this was possible.

I beg to differ on the point where it was said that it doesn't really add much to the software, or that i would be a "circus act" 

I use a thing called the 'Digitalent" for this. I have an operator-synth in Ableton with a flute and added distortion..i completely maximized decay and added delay, lots of feedback.

It's a great sound, and by playing it with my hands in this programmed way it's very expressive and is much different than it would be playing with keyboards. 

For scales i use midi-templates in Ableton, otherwise it's really not controlable; it bursts out midinotes as if it were raindrops falling from the sky :) That is why i had to put on so much decay and delay.

Here's an example: https://youtu.be/f-r11AlfiDk

But if Leap/ Geco would be able to do this..i think i could control more ( the digitalent is cv/gate?) and add more features to the preset.

I'm sorry i'm not really speaking the lingo. I'm a user, not really a tech guy.

But i would love for Geco to be able to do this. 

[Geert Bevin]

Hi Marcel,

GECO offers the possibility to do this, if you're willing to go through another application to do the mapping. The problem for playing notes is that this seems to be a very personal thing, so there would be a lot of configuration and options involved. We haven't come up with an approach that is reliable, predictable and works for most people.

Using OSC or 14-bit MIDI messages, you can use any application that is able to generate or map MIDI messages, to create the notes you want while moving your hands around.

Hope this helps.

Take care,

Geert Bevin
iOS Product Manager & Senior Software Engineer | Moog Music Inc.
Principle Software Engineer | Roger Linn Design
Founder, Owner & Engineer | Uwyn