Theban Play Theme

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khosch

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Sep 19, 2008, 11:08:41 AM9/19/08
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Work in groups of three (triad) or four (quad).

Read through the "Theme Ideas" handout.

Each member of the group should choose one theme statement (three
people -- three statements; four people -- four statements).

The triad/quad discussion will be at the beginning of class on Monday;
then you will write your individual posts and finish reading the play.

On Monday:
Discuss with the members of your triad or quad how the theme is played
out in the play.

Each member posts comments on the theme he or she chose. My thinking
is if we do it this way, we should get a variety of discussions.

Finish reading the play.

nathan

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Sep 19, 2008, 11:29:09 AM9/19/08
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My theme choice was is ignorance an excuse? I thought that it was an
excuse because if you dont know, how would you avoid it? Therefore, i
believe that ignorance is an excuse. Odeipus didnt no the prophecy.
How was he supposed to avoid marrying his mom and killing his dad

bpaterni

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Sep 20, 2008, 3:47:31 PM9/20/08
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I don't understand why we're doing this in groups. Nonetheless, here's
my individual post on my theme of choice, private vs. public:

There are two examples of the private vs public theme that jumped
right out at me. There may be more that I've overlooked or that are
later on in the story... The first example I recognized was the during
civil war that took place. Polyneices acted as a private individual of
the Theban rebels, and Eteocles acted as an agent of the state during
the civil war. Polyneices, being a part of the rebel forces, was seen
as an enemy of the public state and therefore, was left on the
battlefield unburied to set an example for all future dissenters of
Thebes.

The second example is that of Antigone (private) vs. Creon (public).
On one hand, Antigone believes that it's more important to care for
one's self and family. And on the other hand there's Creon, who
believes in obedience to man-made laws.

jordan n.

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Sep 21, 2008, 2:26:30 PM9/21/08
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my theme is run from it or accept it. i picked this because oedipus
was sent away when he was an infarnt. so his parents were making his
run away pretty much so the fortelling they heard won't come true.
then later in life oedipus ends up marrying his mom and killing his
father. just as was said. so then once oedipus finds out he did that
he stabs his eyes out and runs away because he couldn't accept what he
did. he then dies because of it also. so the whole book is talking
about someone running away because they can't accept something.

On Sep 19, 10:08 am, khosch <kho...@spartanpride.net> wrote:

Kayla

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Sep 22, 2008, 8:54:28 AM9/22/08
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My theme was the decent burial. Antigone tries to bury her brother
after he dies but they say it is against the law. They take Antigone
and and bring her underground to a cave like thing and bury her
alive.

AmandaStefl

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Sep 22, 2008, 10:31:00 AM9/22/08
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I did is ignorance an excuse... I believe it is in this situation.
It's evident that he would not have done what he did knowing that his
wife was his mother and he killed his father. Because of the huge
commotion he makes when he finds out. If his parents wouldn't have
sent him off to be killed.. or if he actually would have been killed
as planned none of this would have had to happen.

On Sep 19, 9:08 am, khosch <kho...@spartanpride.net> wrote:

Brittanee Deeringer

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Sep 22, 2008, 10:32:42 AM9/22/08
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I chose "the blind see". With this theme choice I believe that it
really came out in the first part of the play we read. Tiresias is a
blind prophet and can't physically see the truth but deep down he
knows whats going on. On page 177 line 360 Tiresias says "how terrible-
to see the truth when the truth is only pain to him who sees!" This
theme is quite obvious and that is why I chose it.

day

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Sep 22, 2008, 10:35:48 AM9/22/08
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o's desany was to kill his father and even though he didnt mean to he
did. he also married his mom and became king . he didnt know his mm
was the king though.

taylor

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Sep 22, 2008, 10:36:51 AM9/22/08
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My theme choice was decent burial. I believe that Antigone had every
right to try to bury her brother because he didn't deserve to be just
laid there. Just because he fought against his brother and they killed
each other. He still deserved a proper burial and Antigone did the
right thing by trying to bury him.

shuey

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Sep 22, 2008, 10:36:52 AM9/22/08
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My theme was destiny run from it or accept it. I think that if they
would of accepted their destiny throughout the plays they all would of
been better off.

On Sep 19, 9:08 am, khosch <kho...@spartanpride.net> wrote:

sharp

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Sep 22, 2008, 10:36:55 AM9/22/08
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My theme was respect for suffering. I think he should respect what he
did and shouldn't have ran out on everyone. He then bacame a lonly man
to die in the forest with no eyes.

On Sep 19, 9:08 am, khosch <kho...@spartanpride.net> wrote:

Treye

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Sep 22, 2008, 10:38:05 AM9/22/08
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My theme choice was the bline "see" (truth) two examples of this are
Tiresias and Oedipus. Oedipus is an example because when he wasnt
blind he saw things he wanted such as his mother because he didnt
know. Also he wanted to be rich and he also kept himself from his
foster parents but not his real parents and he ended up killing his
father. He took his own eyes because he saw the truth of his actions
and how he hurt those around him and didnt want to see the lie but he
wanted to just know the truth. Tiresias is a litteral example because
he is a blind prophet that see true things from the gods.

On Sep 19, 9:08 am, khosch <kho...@spartanpride.net> wrote:

Mr. Slave

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Sep 22, 2008, 10:39:50 AM9/22/08
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My theme is pain for gain. An example for this is when Oedipous pretty
much cuts out his eyes so he can't see anymore. He does this because
he is so embarrest that he slept with his mom and had kids with his
mom.

On Sep 19, 9:08 am, khosch <kho...@spartanpride.net> wrote:

Ryan

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Sep 22, 2008, 10:40:58 AM9/22/08
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I chose run from it or accept it. Oedipus was sent away but he still
fulfilled the prophecy that he was to marry his mother and kill his
father. Antigone chose to accept it. She didn't care what the
concequences were for her actions. She did what was right to her and
accepted what followed.

On Sep 19, 9:08 am, khosch <kho...@spartanpride.net> wrote:

Trevor

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Sep 22, 2008, 10:41:05 AM9/22/08
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My theme is a decent burial. I believe that everyone has his or her
right to a decent burial. I also believe that Antigone had every right
to bury her brother. It would have been terrible to let the man rot
above the soil.

On Sep 19, 9:08 am, khosch <kho...@spartanpride.net> wrote:

jacy

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Sep 22, 2008, 10:44:26 AM9/22/08
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My theme was a proper burial. Creon chooses only to give one of his
son's, Eteocles, a proper burial with mourning and honor because he
defended him. However he does not give his other son, Polynices, a
burial at all. He wants to keep him un-buried for everone to see and
his flesh to be eaten by animals. I think this is wrong because even
if there are disputes within the family, out of respect Polynices
should have a proper funeral and burial also.

On Sep 19, 9:08 am, khosch <kho...@spartanpride.net> wrote:

Ashley

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Sep 22, 2008, 10:46:35 AM9/22/08
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My theme is God's law vs. the law of society. When Antigone went and
buried her brother because she believed under God's law everyone
deserves a proper burial, plus it is her brother who she loves and she
knew he would do the same for her. The king said he didn't want him
buried and said that he would punish anyone who buried him and since
Antigone buried him she was brought to the palace and they tried to
decide what to do and she protested against his word with God's word.

On Sep 19, 9:08 am, khosch <kho...@spartanpride.net> wrote:

Ed

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Sep 22, 2008, 10:47:02 AM9/22/08
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my theme is is ignorance an excuse? i think that it is not an excuse
because it is still wrong and whether you know or not it is wrong. and
i think that O is wrong in what he does even though he doesn't know.
On Sep 19, 9:08 am, khosch <kho...@spartanpride.net> wrote:

alicia

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Sep 22, 2008, 10:49:45 AM9/22/08
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The theme I chose was is "is ignorance an excuse." I don't really know
if there is a full right or wrong. He didn't know that at the time
that he was killing his father and was going to end up marrying his
mom. Although after he found out I think I would have handled the
situation a little better than he had. I don't know if they believed
in divorce then but if they had that would have been the route I would
have chosen to take. So at the beginning I think he could have used it
as an excuse but sooner or later you would have had to come to the
realization that what you did was wrong and that it needs to end some
how. Thats my take on it and I'm not quite positive that I'm right.

Angel K.

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Sep 22, 2008, 10:55:08 AM9/22/08
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The theme I chose was The blind "see". This is about Oedipus finally
realizing
the truth and what he has done. Tiresias knew the whole time about
Oedipus and didn't say
anything. He is the blind "see" because he can't actually see, but he
understands the whole
situation.

On Sep 19, 9:08 am, khosch <kho...@spartanpride.net> wrote:

DUNNICK

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Sep 22, 2008, 11:01:55 AM9/22/08
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The theme that I chose was God's law vs. the law of society. Polyneices, Creon's nephew, was going to get buried but Creon didn't want Antigone's brother, Polyneices, didn't want her brother to get a proper burial. Which brings in the theme "A Decent Burial." The greeks thought that a proper burial was a high value.
"Creon: Did you not know that this had been forbidden?
Antigone: Of course I knew. There was a proclamation.
Creon: And so you dared to disobey the law?
Antigone: ...Imposed such laws as this upon mankind; Nor could I think that a decree of yours-- A man-- could override the laws of Heaven"

-----Original message below-----



Work in groups of three (triad) or four (quad).

Read through the "Theme Ideas" handout.

Each member of the group should choose one theme statement (three
people -- three statements; four people -- four statements).

The triad/quad discussion will be at the beginning of class on Monday;
then you will write your individual posts and finish reading the play.

On Monday:
Discuss with the members of your triad or quad how the theme is played
out in the play.

Each member posts comments on the theme he or she chose. My thinking
is if we do it this way, we should get a variety of discussions.

Finish reading the play.




*** This Email was sent by a student at Grundy Center Community Schools in Grundy Center Community Schools.

tylern

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Sep 22, 2008, 11:39:16 AM9/22/08
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I chose the blind see/truth. Basically, it means that only after being
blinded can the characters see the truth, such as Teirsias the seer
who is bind and yet can see the future, and also Oedipus, who blinds
himself after learning the truth.

On Sep 19, 9:08 am, khosch <kho...@spartanpride.net> wrote:

Joc

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Sep 22, 2008, 11:39:40 AM9/22/08
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The theme I chose was is ignorance an excuse? I believe that it is.
For example when Oedipus didn't no the prophacy therefore he married
his bio. mother and killed his father. After he did this and found out
that they were his parents he couldn't accept or avoid the fact that
he did it, so he poked his own eyes out, and from this he also died.

On Sep 19, 9:08 am, khosch <kho...@spartanpride.net> wrote:

spenc

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Sep 22, 2008, 11:41:20 AM9/22/08
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My theme was interference by the Gods. The God's interfered in
Oedipus's life lots of times. Right in the beginning them doomed his
life to marry his mom and kill his father. Next they keep him alive
by having the shepherd save his life and give him to another man.
Then they keep the tale of his actual family a secret and when he
hears of the prophecy he thinks that his adopted parents are his
actual parents and leaves and the Gods take him right back to his
actual parents. In Antigone the Gods interfere in everyones life and
take everything from Creon because he didn't give Antigone's brother a
rightful burial.

On Sep 19, 9:08 am, khosch <kho...@spartanpride.net> wrote:

Chris

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Sep 22, 2008, 11:42:57 AM9/22/08
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My theme was destiny:run from it or accept it? I think that people
should just accept their destiny because in the long run they will be
better off. In this play Oedipus learned his destiny but then he chose
to try and change it. It didn't work though because he ended up
fulfilling his destiny anyway.

On Sep 19, 9:08 am, khosch <kho...@spartanpride.net> wrote:

Mr. Slave

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Sep 22, 2008, 11:43:59 AM9/22/08
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My choice was respect for suffering. Antigone has lost all her family
so she isn't afraid of dying. She goes to her sister to ask for her
help in burring their brother. She doesn't want go help because she
doesn't want to go against Creon's order. Antigone then does it on her
own. She gets caught but is not afraid. She thinks her pain for
suffering will only take her to her brothers. Her sister then comes in
and says that she helped and wants to die with her Antigone. Antigone
then says that she was the only one in this act and doesn't want
anyone else to help take the blame. She respects suffering because she
feels she has nothing to lose.

On Sep 19, 9:08 am, khosch <kho...@spartanpride.net> wrote:

Nick M

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Sep 22, 2008, 11:44:44 AM9/22/08
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My theme was a decent burial. Antigone fights to give both of her
brothers equal treatment after the civil war and she wanted to allow
them both to have a decent burial. Creon thinks that Antigone's
brother should be left out in the open and eaten by the dogs because
he fought against their country. This is like the law of God vs. the
law of Creon. Antigone does the right thing by trying to to help out
her brother but Creon's laws forbid anyone that fights against him to
have a proper burial.

Janae Nibbelink

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Sep 22, 2008, 11:45:11 AM9/22/08
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With governce you have the letter of the law, meaning of the law, and
the purpose of the law.
Purpose of the law is to keep the peace and protect those who fall
under the jursdiction of the law. Meaning is to alow flexibiltiy into
the system of law bacuse a system inflexible no matter how strong will
break. Letter of the law is most inflexible because it does not allow
for those exceptions to the law and does not stand up to reason and
being infelxible it will break sonner or latter because people ussally
do not stand letter of the law exspecially if the law goes against
moral standings.

KSchoolman

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Sep 22, 2008, 11:45:24 AM9/22/08
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My theme was Blind People See.
I chose this because I think it represents itself in more than one way
during the play. Tieresias is obviously blind but he has a full
knowledge of what is happening and what is going to happen. When he
lost one sense his other senses grew stronger. Just because a person
can't see doesn't mean they don't realize what is happening.
At the end of the play Oedipus blinds himself because he feels that is
what he deserves for what he has done to his family. He comments that
there is nothing beautiful left in the world for him to see. He blinds
himself only after he realizes what he has done.

Shelby

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Sep 22, 2008, 11:45:59 AM9/22/08
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My theme is "no pain, no gain." In Oedipus, he goes through the pain
of learning that he killed his father and married his mother, to gain
the knowledge that he did it. And at the end he painfully blinds
himself so that he can see the big picture more clearly in his mind.

In Antigone, she is in mental pain over the fact that one of her
brothers has been left to be eaten by birds and dogs and not given a
proper burial. She has to sneak around to give him a sort of burial
and is caught and is going to be executed, but she has gained a more
proper burial for her brother.

Dalen

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Sep 22, 2008, 11:46:18 AM9/22/08
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My theme choice is decent burial. Burial rites were very important to
the people of Thebes. When Antigone's brother died I believe she had
every right to give her brother the respect he deserved and perform
the last rites for him even though Creon made a rule not to bury him.
The problem with this was that it was a kings rule over a rule of god
so I believe that what Antigone did was the right thing.

Adrianne

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Sep 22, 2008, 11:49:21 AM9/22/08
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My theme choice was decent burial. In the story Creon forbids anyone
to bury Polynices, he wants
him to sit outside the gate and rot. I think this is cruel because
everyone should have a right to a decent burial.
Antigone has every right to give him a burial. It doesnt matter who he
was fighting for he should still have that right.
Creon sends Antigone to a gave with a big stone rolled in front of it,
he is basically burying her alive. Which is
interesting because Creon earlier said anyone who goes against him
doesn't deserve to be buried.

morgan jo

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Sep 22, 2008, 11:52:10 AM9/22/08
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What i chose for the theme of the play was destiny. The way that i saw
this was when Creon was talking to Haemon about what the situation
Antigone was in. No he is not going to be able to marry her because
she will be dead. He tells his father what his opinion was about what
he was going to do to his fiance but he says that he accept what his
father's decision is. He said that he would not dream of challenging
his decision. So therefore that's how he accepts it.

On Sep 19, 9:08 am, khosch <kho...@spartanpride.net> wrote:

Brittany

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Sep 22, 2008, 11:55:19 AM9/22/08
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Decent Burial---Creon decides to give Eteocles a proper burial because
he fought on his side. Polynices on the other hand fought against
Creon and his brother. In the end both of the brothers die and Creon
gives Eteocles an honorable burial but leaves Polynices out in the
open for his body to rot. I believe Antigone had all the rights in
the world to give her brother a proper burial because nobody deserves
to just be thrown above ground and have their body rot for all to
see. I still can't believe that Ismene did not help out much even
though she agreed. Antigone had real courage to stand up for her
deceased brother and his rights of burial and put her own life in
jeopardy.

Brittany

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Sep 22, 2008, 12:02:41 PM9/22/08
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Decent Burial---I choose this because this theme stands out to me the
most in the play. I don't think any person, no matter what reason,
should just be thrown above ground to rot for everyone to see. I find
that very cruel and wrong. Yes, I can see why Creon is not in the
biggest favor of Polynices considering he was fighting against him but
he still should not have the say in giving him an honorable burial of
not. Antigone had all the rights to bury her brother properly and
should not have been punished.

Matejka

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Sep 22, 2008, 12:12:34 PM9/22/08
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My theme was the blind "see" (truth). Teiriseis is a blind prophet, he
tells Oedipus that he is gonna kill his father and marry his mother
and when he does he feels guilty about it and then Oedipus stabs his
eyes out because he can't bear to "see" the truth of what he has
done.

Zinnel

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Sep 22, 2008, 12:14:21 PM9/22/08
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My theme was destiny, and whether or not to run from it or accept it.
In the first play O was forced to try and run from his destiny but in
the end their actions forced his destiny to come true. So he couldn't
really run from his destiny. Your destiny will always "come true". So
there is no point in trying to run from it if it is inevitable. And in
the second play that we read the blind prophet told Creon that the
blight on the land was his fault because the gods were angry at what
he is doing. Or I could be that the gods were still mad at O so his
entire family line had been killed off because it was inpure. I don't
know.

Katherine

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Sep 22, 2008, 6:09:30 PM9/22/08
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I chose "run from it or accept it" as my theme. Everyone in this book
had a fate, and most of the characters ran from it. If they would've
just accepted the way things were meant to be, they could've actually
ended up avoiding the harsh reality of their destiny.

Jess

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Sep 22, 2008, 6:24:17 PM9/22/08
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I choose run from it or accept it.
At first Oedipus tries to find the truth, so he's not trying to run
from it, but once he hears the truth he doesn't believe it. He thinks
Creon and the prohpet are after him. I think he runs from it when he
stabs out his eyes and then continues to run when he leaves Thebes,
but it's somewhat accepting it too because for the plague to end he
has to leave.

Antigone accepts her fate, she isn't scared to die and she knows
she'll be put to death. Isama on the other hand runs from it, she does
not want to die and she doesn't want to have the respect for her
brother.

Creon also runs from the truth when everyone tells him not to kill
antigone. He keeps trying to avoid the fact that something bad is
gonna happen if he kills her. But towards the end he tries to accept
it an save antigone but it is to late.

Freese

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Sep 22, 2008, 10:40:26 PM9/22/08
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My theme is Destiny. the examples i can think of are when oedipus is
predicted to kill his father and marry his mother. the prophets make
predictions and they are right. they believe that destiny follows you.
another one is when Teiresia the blind prophet tells creon that there
is going to be a death in the family.

Jenn

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Sep 23, 2008, 12:20:02 PM9/23/08
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Antigone has nothing to lose if she gets caught for trying to bury her
brother. She has lost everything already. (I've already posted once
but its not on here so...)

mallory

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Sep 23, 2008, 5:09:54 PM9/23/08
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I choose ignorance an exuse becuase i think a lot of people would
think that. I think it does help him somewhat becuase how is it wrong
if he didnt know he was doing wrong?
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