Re: [gcd-main] keywords description

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Henry Andrews

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Feb 9, 2012, 5:07:46 PM2/9/12

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In tech terms (note mailing list switch), there should just be one keyword table and a generic many-to-many relationship to each of the tables, right?

-henry

From: Jochen G. <gcd...@garcke.de>
To: gcd-...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Thursday, February 9, 2012 12:35 PM
Subject: Re: [gcd-main] keywords description

There is a keyword field for every object: publisher, series, issue, story.

Jochen

Am 09.02.2012 21:34, schrieb bobah...@comcast.net:
> I don't understand this at all. Isn't keywords just one field? Why
> would you have multiple keyword fields? What is the purpose of this?
> What are we trying to accomplish?
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From: *"Jochen Garcke" <gcd...@garcke.de>
> *To: *"gcd-main" <gcd-...@googlegroups.com>
> *Sent: *Thursday, February 9, 2012 3:08:24 PM
> *Subject: *[gcd-main] keywords description
>
> This task isn't be limited to tech, if anyone could do this ?
>
> Thanks,
> Jochen
>
> -------- Original-Nachricht --------
> Betreff: Re: [gcd-tech] [Bug 686] Add keywords
> Datum: Wed, 08 Feb 2012 10:45:06 +0100
> Von: Jochen G. <gcd...@garcke.de>
> Antwort an: gcd-...@googlegroups.com
> An: gcd-...@googlegroups.com
>
> If someone can write for keywords
>
> a) a short help text which shows on the OI editing screens (mostly a
> sentence or two for the existing ones)
> b) a wiki page with a longer description which we can link to from the OI
>
> When these are done I can add the field to the db-tables, OI and
> advanced search.
>
> Jochen
>
> Am 08.02.2012 06:53, schrieb GCD Tech Bugs:
>> http://dev.comics.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=686
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --- Comment #5 from Lionel English <lio...@beanmar.net> 2012-02-08
> 07:14:43 PST ---
>> OK, I'm going to make an executive decision on this one.
>>
>> We should add a new field, keyword, to each of the major object
> tables--master
>> publisher, indicia publisher, publisher brand, series, issue, story.
> We should
>> also add it to future major object tables as they're added--e.g. creators,
>> characters, strips, etc.
>>
>> The search questions can be deferred for a few months till we get Solr
>> integrated.
>>
>>
>
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Henry Andrews

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Feb 9, 2012, 5:08:18 PM2/9/12

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And for that matter, I think there's already a django-tagging app that could probably be used as the back end.

-henry

From: Henry Andrews <hh...@cornell.edu>
To: GCD Tech <gcd-...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 9, 2012 2:07 PM
Subject: [gcd-tech] Re: [gcd-main] keywords description

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Jochen G.

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Feb 9, 2012, 5:12:22 PM2/9/12

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Quoting Lionel.

--- Comment #5 from Lionel English <lio...@beanmar.net> 2012-02-08
07:14:43 PST ---
OK, I'm going to make an executive decision on this one.

We should add a new field, keyword, to each of the major object
tables--master
publisher, indicia publisher, publisher brand, series, issue, story. We
should
also add it to future major object tables as they're added--e.g. creators,
characters, strips, etc.

The search questions can be deferred for a few months till we get Solr
integrated.

Am 09.02.2012 23:08, schrieb Henry Andrews:
> And for that matter, I think there's already a django-tagging app that
> could probably be used as the back end.
> -henry
>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* Henry Andrews <hh...@cornell.edu>
> *To:* GCD Tech <gcd-...@googlegroups.com>
> *Sent:* Thursday, February 9, 2012 2:07 PM
> *Subject:* [gcd-tech] Re: [gcd-main] keywords description

>
> In tech terms (note mailing list switch), there should just be one
> keyword table and a generic many-to-many relationship to each of the
> tables, right?
>
> -henry
>
>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* Jochen G. <gcd...@garcke.de>
> *To:* gcd-...@googlegroups.com
> *Sent:* Thursday, February 9, 2012 12:35 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [gcd-main] keywords description

>
> There is a keyword field for every object: publisher, series,
> issue, story.
>
> Jochen
>
> Am 09.02.2012 21:34, schrieb bobah...@comcast.net

> <mailto:bobah...@comcast.net>:

> > I don't understand this at all. Isn't keywords just one
> field? Why
> > would you have multiple keyword fields? What is the purpose
> of this?
> > What are we trying to accomplish?
> >
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > *From: *"Jochen Garcke" <gcd...@garcke.de

> <mailto:gcd...@garcke.de>>
> > *To: *"gcd-main" <gcd-...@googlegroups.com
> <mailto:gcd-...@googlegroups.com>>

> > *Sent: *Thursday, February 9, 2012 3:08:24 PM
> > *Subject: *[gcd-main] keywords description
> >
> > This task isn't be limited to tech, if anyone could do this ?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Jochen
> >
> > -------- Original-Nachricht --------
> > Betreff: Re: [gcd-tech] [Bug 686] Add keywords
> > Datum: Wed, 08 Feb 2012 10:45:06 +0100

> > Von: Jochen G. <gcd...@garcke.de <mailto:gcd...@garcke.de>>
> > Antwort an: gcd-...@googlegroups.com
> <mailto:gcd-...@googlegroups.com>
> > An: gcd-...@googlegroups.com <mailto:gcd-...@googlegroups.com>

> >
> > If someone can write for keywords
> >
> > a) a short help text which shows on the OI editing screens
> (mostly a
> > sentence or two for the existing ones)
> > b) a wiki page with a longer description which we can link to
> from the OI
> >
> > When these are done I can add the field to the db-tables, OI and
> > advanced search.
> >
> > Jochen
> >
> > Am 08.02.2012 06:53, schrieb GCD Tech Bugs:
> >> http://dev.comics.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=686
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --- Comment #5 from Lionel English <lio...@beanmar.net

> <mailto:lio...@beanmar.net>> 2012-02-08

> > 07:14:43 PST ---
> >> OK, I'm going to make an executive decision on this one.
> >>
> >> We should add a new field, keyword, to each of the major object
> > tables--master
> >> publisher, indicia publisher, publisher brand, series, issue,
> story.
> > We should
> >> also add it to future major object tables as they're
> added--e.g. creators,
> >> characters, strips, etc.
> >>
> >> The search questions can be deferred for a few months till we
> get Solr
> >> integrated.
> >>
> >>
> >
> > --
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Henry Andrews

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Feb 9, 2012, 5:23:44 PM2/9/12

to gcd-...@googlegroups.com

That's not an answer. That just says how it should behave, it doesn't say anything about the implementation in my view. I doubt Lionel intended to force anyone to write a bunch of unnecessary code.

-henry

From: Jochen G. <gcd...@garcke.de>
To: gcd-...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Thursday, February 9, 2012 2:12 PM
Subject: Re: [gcd-tech] Re: [gcd-main] keywords description

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Jochen G.

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Feb 9, 2012, 5:26:40 PM2/9/12

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I read that as adding a field, not a foreign key. And this was the point
of the design question Lionel recently asked...

Jochen

Am 09.02.2012 23:23, schrieb Henry Andrews:
> That's not an answer. That just says how it should behave, it doesn't
> say anything about the implementation in my view. I doubt Lionel
> intended to force anyone to write a bunch of unnecessary code.
> -henry
>
>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* Jochen G. <gcd...@garcke.de>
> *To:* gcd-...@googlegroups.com

> *Sent:* Thursday, February 9, 2012 2:12 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [gcd-tech] Re: [gcd-main] keywords description

>
> Quoting Lionel.
>
> --- Comment #5 from Lionel English <lio...@beanmar.net

> <mailto:lio...@beanmar.net>> 2012-02-08
> 07:14:43 PST ---
> OK, I'm going to make an executive decision on this one.
>
> We should add a new field, keyword, to each of the major object
> tables--master
> publisher, indicia publisher, publisher brand, series, issue, story. We
> should
> also add it to future major object tables as they're added--e.g.
> creators,
> characters, strips, etc.
>
> The search questions can be deferred for a few months till we get Solr
> integrated.
>

> Am 09.02.2012 23:08, schrieb Henry Andrews:
> > And for that matter, I think there's already a django-tagging app that
> > could probably be used as the back end.
> > -henry
> >
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> > *From:* Henry Andrews <hh...@cornell.edu <mailto:hh...@cornell.edu>>

> > *To:* GCD Tech <gcd-...@googlegroups.com

> <mailto:gcd-...@googlegroups.com>>

> > *Sent:* Thursday, February 9, 2012 2:07 PM
> > *Subject:* [gcd-tech] Re: [gcd-main] keywords description
> >
> > In tech terms (note mailing list switch), there should just be one
> > keyword table and a generic many-to-many relationship to each
> of the
> > tables, right?
> >
> > -henry
> >
> >
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > *From:* Jochen G. <gcd...@garcke.de

> <mailto:gcd...@garcke.de>>
> > *To:* gcd-...@googlegroups.com
> <mailto:gcd-...@googlegroups.com>

> > *Sent:* Thursday, February 9, 2012 12:35 PM
> > *Subject:* Re: [gcd-main] keywords description
> >
> > There is a keyword field for every object: publisher, series,
> > issue, story.
> >
> > Jochen
> >
> > Am 09.02.2012 21:34, schrieb bobah...@comcast.net
> <mailto:bobah...@comcast.net>

> > <mailto:bobah...@comcast.net

> <mailto:bobah...@comcast.net>>:
> > > I don't understand this at all. Isn't keywords just one
> > field? Why
> > > would you have multiple keyword fields? What is the purpose
> > of this?
> > > What are we trying to accomplish?
> > >
> > >
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > *From: *"Jochen Garcke" <gcd...@garcke.de
> <mailto:gcd...@garcke.de>

> > <mailto:gcd...@garcke.de <mailto:gcd...@garcke.de>>>

> > > *To: *"gcd-main" <gcd-...@googlegroups.com
> <mailto:gcd-...@googlegroups.com>

> > <mailto:gcd-...@googlegroups.com

> <mailto:gcd-...@googlegroups.com>>>
> > > *Sent: *Thursday, February 9, 2012 3:08:24 PM
> > > *Subject: *[gcd-main] keywords description
> > >
> > > This task isn't be limited to tech, if anyone could do this ?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Jochen
> > >
> > > -------- Original-Nachricht --------
> > > Betreff: Re: [gcd-tech] [Bug 686] Add keywords
> > > Datum: Wed, 08 Feb 2012 10:45:06 +0100
> > > Von: Jochen G. <gcd...@garcke.de

> <mailto:gcd...@garcke.de> <mailto:gcd...@garcke.de

> <mailto:gcd...@garcke.de>>>
> > > Antwort an: gcd-...@googlegroups.com
> <mailto:gcd-...@googlegroups.com>

> > <mailto:gcd-...@googlegroups.com
> <mailto:gcd-...@googlegroups.com>>
> > > An: gcd-...@googlegroups.com
> <mailto:gcd-...@googlegroups.com> <mailto:gcd-...@googlegroups.com

> <mailto:gcd-...@googlegroups.com>>
> > >
> > > If someone can write for keywords
> > >
> > > a) a short help text which shows on the OI editing screens
> > (mostly a
> > > sentence or two for the existing ones)
> > > b) a wiki page with a longer description which we can link to
> > from the OI
> > >
> > > When these are done I can add the field to the db-tables,
> OI and
> > > advanced search.
> > >
> > > Jochen
> > >
> > > Am 08.02.2012 06:53, schrieb GCD Tech Bugs:
> > >> http://dev.comics.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=686
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> --- Comment #5 from Lionel English <lio...@beanmar.net
> <mailto:lio...@beanmar.net>

> > <mailto:lio...@beanmar.net <mailto:lio...@beanmar.net>>>

> 2012-02-08
> > > 07:14:43 PST ---
> > >> OK, I'm going to make an executive decision on this one.
> > >>
> > >> We should add a new field, keyword, to each of the major
> object
> > > tables--master
> > >> publisher, indicia publisher, publisher brand, series,
> issue,
> > story.
> > > We should
> > >> also add it to future major object tables as they're
> > added--e.g. creators,
> > >> characters, strips, etc.
> > >>
> > >> The search questions can be deferred for a few months
> till we
> > get Solr
> > >> integrated.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > > --
> > > GCD-Tech mailing list - gcd-...@googlegroups.com
> <mailto:gcd-...@googlegroups.com>

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Henry Andrews

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Feb 9, 2012, 6:02:14 PM2/9/12

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OK, fine. Clearly the fact that I was too busy to pay attention for a while means that my recommendation of saving a bunch of time is worthless.

-henry

From: Jochen G. <gcd...@garcke.de>
To: gcd-...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Thursday, February 9, 2012 2:26 PM
Subject: Re: [gcd-tech] Re: [gcd-main] keywords description

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Jochen G.

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Feb 9, 2012, 7:25:57 PM2/9/12

to gcd-...@googlegroups.com

Point the new information to Lionel and not me.

Besides, depending on what is intended with keywords (I don't know what
is intended) adding fields can be simpler to code than adding an
external tag library and integrating that. If additional functionality
besides searches are intended it is different.

Jochen

Am 10.02.2012 00:02, schrieb Henry Andrews:
> OK, fine. Clearly the fact that I was too busy to pay attention for a
> while means that my recommendation of saving a bunch of time is worthless.
> -henry
>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* Jochen G. <gcd...@garcke.de>
> *To:* gcd-...@googlegroups.com

> *Sent:* Thursday, February 9, 2012 2:26 PM

> *Subject:* Re: [gcd-tech] Re: [gcd-main] keywords description
>

> I read that as adding a field, not a foreign key. And this was the point
> of the design question Lionel recently asked...
>
> Jochen
>
> Am 09.02.2012 23:23, schrieb Henry Andrews:
> > That's not an answer. That just says how it should behave, it doesn't
> > say anything about the implementation in my view. I doubt Lionel
> > intended to force anyone to write a bunch of unnecessary code.
> > -henry
> >
> >
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> > *From:* Jochen G. <gcd...@garcke.de <mailto:gcd...@garcke.de>>

> > *To:* gcd-...@googlegroups.com <mailto:gcd-...@googlegroups.com>

> > *Sent:* Thursday, February 9, 2012 2:12 PM
> > *Subject:* Re: [gcd-tech] Re: [gcd-main] keywords description
> >
> > Quoting Lionel.
> >
> > --- Comment #5 from Lionel English <lio...@beanmar.net
> <mailto:lio...@beanmar.net>

> > <mailto:lio...@beanmar.net <mailto:lio...@beanmar.net>>>
> 2012-02-08
> > 07:14:43 PST ---
> > OK, I'm going to make an executive decision on this one.
> >
> > We should add a new field, keyword, to each of the major object
> > tables--master
> > publisher, indicia publisher, publisher brand, series, issue,
> story. We
> > should
> > also add it to future major object tables as they're added--e.g.
> > creators,
> > characters, strips, etc.
> >
> > The search questions can be deferred for a few months till we
> get Solr
> > integrated.
> >

> > Am 09.02.2012 23:08, schrieb Henry Andrews:
> > > And for that matter, I think there's already a django-tagging
> app that
> > > could probably be used as the back end.
> > > -henry
> > >
> > >
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > *From:* Henry Andrews <hh...@cornell.edu

> <mailto:hh...@cornell.edu> <mailto:hh...@cornell.edu

> <mailto:hh...@cornell.edu>>>
> > > *To:* GCD Tech <gcd-...@googlegroups.com
> <mailto:gcd-...@googlegroups.com>

> > <mailto:gcd-...@googlegroups.com
> <mailto:gcd-...@googlegroups.com>>>

> > > *Sent:* Thursday, February 9, 2012 2:07 PM
> > > *Subject:* [gcd-tech] Re: [gcd-main] keywords description
> > >
> > > In tech terms (note mailing list switch), there should
> just be one
> > > keyword table and a generic many-to-many relationship to each
> > of the
> > > tables, right?
> > >
> > > -henry
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > *From:* Jochen G. <gcd...@garcke.de
> <mailto:gcd...@garcke.de>

> > <mailto:gcd...@garcke.de <mailto:gcd...@garcke.de>>>
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> <mailto:gcd-...@googlegroups.com>>

> > > *Sent:* Thursday, February 9, 2012 12:35 PM
> > > *Subject:* Re: [gcd-main] keywords description
> > >
> > > There is a keyword field for every object: publisher,
> series,
> > > issue, story.
> > >
> > > Jochen
> > >
> > > Am 09.02.2012 21:34, schrieb bobah...@comcast.net
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> > <mailto:bobah...@comcast.net <mailto:bobah...@comcast.net>>>:

> > <mailto:gcd...@garcke.de <mailto:gcd...@garcke.de>>>>

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Lionel English

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Feb 9, 2012, 7:30:05 PM2/9/12

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Jochen's right that this is what I wanted to know when I posed the design discussion question a few weeks ago. I think you participated in that discussion briefly but didn't directly address the question, and then presumably got sidetracked, which is understandable.

If the single keyword table would be the better tech solution, then that's the direction we should take. Though that does beg several other questions:

* Presumably we'd add a keyword data entry box to each of the object edit screens (publisher, series, issue, etc).

* Presumably the programs that handle data changes would need to parse entries in these fields so that each word in the field is added to the keyword table (i.e. if the user inputs "golf; rain; skunk", the program would need to separate that into a keyword entry for golf, and one for rain, and one for skunk, rather than adding the whole field to a single keyword record. Otherwise "golf; rain; skunk" would be distinct from "rain; golf; skunk").

OK, I guess those aren't questions. The question would be, are those valid assumptions? I can update the bug, I just need to know if those design decisions make the most sense.

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--
Lionel English

San Diego, CA
lio...@beanmar.net

Lionel English

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Feb 9, 2012, 7:35:45 PM2/9/12

to gcd-...@googlegroups.com

The main point of keywords is to serve as search anchors. They enable one to add words that will improve the likelihood of someone doing a search to find what they want, if they aren't looking for a specific publisher, series, issue or story (or if they are looking for one of those things, but don't actually know which one), and they help one to be able to find a particular subset of a given category (i.e. find all the covers by Neal Adams with a tank on them).

Whether or not it makes sense to integrate a library to do this is a question I'll leave up to whoever is going to do the coding.

Jochen G.

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Feb 10, 2012, 2:24:40 AM2/10/12

to gcd-...@googlegroups.com

These are valid assumptions. In particular the part about "golf; rain;
skunk" would be distinct from "rain; golf; skunk". The same problem of
order is of course with the characters table or the creators table.
Helping there will the solr-search integration Henry aims for till mid
of the year.

The question is do we want to handle keywords the same as a text field
now (with limitations now, and better search using solr) ? And make for
all these fields the same underlying tech base later ? As in, for
creators and characters we want to have separate models anyway and need
new code then in any case.

Or do we want to introduce keywords with a model from the beginning
using a separate solution which will be different from whatever we do
for creators and characters down the road.

Adding keywords as a text field is less work now but will need more work
later, big parts of which is seemingly similar to work we need for
creator and character tables.
Adding keywords with an external django library (there are at least two
around, although one isn't being developed anymore) is more work now,
both from the code side and the design questions. Although I am not sure
how much more work it is from the code side. It at least parses
"golf; rain; skunk" into three separate values, but otherwise there
wouldn't be a point for an external lib anyway :-)

Jochen

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* Jochen G. <gcd...@garcke.de <mailto:gcd...@garcke.de>>
> *To:* gcd-...@googlegroups.com <mailto:gcd-...@googlegroups.com>

> *Sent:* Thursday, February 9, 2012 2:26 PM

> *Subject:* Re: [gcd-tech] Re: [gcd-main] keywords description
>

> I read that as adding a field, not a foreign key. And this was
> the point
> of the design question Lionel recently asked...
>
> Jochen
>
> Am 09.02.2012 23:23, schrieb Henry Andrews:
> > That's not an answer. That just says how it should behave, it
> doesn't
> > say anything about the implementation in my view. I doubt Lionel
> > intended to force anyone to write a bunch of unnecessary code.
> > -henry
> >
> >
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > *From:* Jochen G. <gcd...@garcke.de

> <mailto:gcd...@garcke.de>>
> > *To:* gcd-...@googlegroups.com
> <mailto:gcd-...@googlegroups.com>

> > <mailto:lio...@beanmar.net <mailto:lio...@beanmar.net>>>
> 2012-02-08
> > 07:14:43 PST ---
> > OK, I'm going to make an executive decision on this one.
> >
> > We should add a new field, keyword, to each of the major object
> > tables--master
> > publisher, indicia publisher, publisher brand, series,
> issue, story. We
> > should
> > also add it to future major object tables as they're
> added--e.g.
> > creators,
> > characters, strips, etc.
> >
> > The search questions can be deferred for a few months till
> we get Solr
> > integrated.
> >

> > Am 09.02.2012 23:08, schrieb Henry Andrews:
> > > And for that matter, I think there's already a
> django-tagging app that
> > > could probably be used as the back end.
> > > -henry
> > >
> > >
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > *From:* Henry Andrews <hh...@cornell.edu

> <mailto:hh...@cornell.edu> <mailto:hh...@cornell.edu

> <mailto:hh...@cornell.edu>>>
> > > *To:* GCD Tech <gcd-...@googlegroups.com
> <mailto:gcd-...@googlegroups.com>

> > <mailto:gcd-...@googlegroups.com
> <mailto:gcd-...@googlegroups.com>>>

> > > *Sent:* Thursday, February 9, 2012 2:07 PM
> > > *Subject:* [gcd-tech] Re: [gcd-main] keywords description
> > >
> > > In tech terms (note mailing list switch), there should
> just be one
> > > keyword table and a generic many-to-many relationship
> to each
> > of the
> > > tables, right?
> > >
> > > -henry
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > *From:* Jochen G. <gcd...@garcke.de
> <mailto:gcd...@garcke.de>

> > <mailto:gcd...@garcke.de <mailto:gcd...@garcke.de>>>
> > > *To:* gcd-...@googlegroups.com

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> <mailto:gcd-...@googlegroups.com>>

> > <mailto:gcd...@garcke.de <mailto:gcd...@garcke.de>>>>

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> Lionel English
> San Diego, CA

> lio...@beanmar.net <mailto:lio...@beanmar.net>

Tony Rose

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Feb 10, 2012, 12:21:31 PM2/10/12

to gcd-...@googlegroups.com

Not to put the cart before the horse, implementation-wise, but do we need to include, in the OI and wiki instructions some sort of delimiter? Like: KEYWORDS: /green kryptonite/ /Fortress of Solitutde/ /time travel/ ?

tony

Tony Rose

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Feb 10, 2012, 12:24:20 PM2/10/12

to gcd-...@googlegroups.com

Ignore this. Semi-colons. Duh.

tony

From: "Tony Rose" <tonyr...@comcast.net>
To: gcd-...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Friday, February 10, 2012 11:21:31 AM
Subject: Re: [gcd-tech] Re: [gcd-main] keywords description

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