Genre #35 - Religious

[Jim Van Dore]

As noted in the other thread, this is an existing genre that I overlooked, though we discussed it from time to time.

35. Religious

A. This genre consists of works centered on a particular religious tradition or reflecting a particular religious point of view.

B. Example keywords include mythology and propaganda.

C. Examples include Picture Stories from the Bible, The Crusaders, and ?

I need, as always, a non-US example.

[Dave Reeder]

Amar Chitra Katha, from India.

I would want some mention of fiction in this genre…

Dave

[James Ludwig]

Dangerous area that. I and millions of others would consider Bible
stories as fact. I am sure that is the view of many other religions
concerning their sacred books.

[Jim Van Dore]

I took Dave to mean that he wanted mention that this genre could be applied to both fictional and non-fictional stories.

Jim

[James Ludwig]

I go along with that. But would caution that except for Mythology and
some other "agreed" upon items, the indexer may wish to reserve
judgement.

[Tony Rose]

Mostly just Christians, Jews, and Muslims -- the People of the Book.  For just about every other religion it's more a matter of "revered" texts than "sacred" texts.

Please note that I put several qualifiers in the above.




tony

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From: "James Ludwig" <narfs...@gmail.com>
To: gcd-...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Thursday, March 8, 2012 1:29:14 PM
Subject: Re: [gcd-genre] Genre #35 - Religious

[Jim Van Dore]

A faithful presentation of someone's religious traditions would be non-fiction.  Archie Andrews learning about Jesus's love for him would be non-fiction.

Jim

[Jim Van Dore]

Yes, but an adaptation of the Mahabharata or Ramayana would still be non-fictional religious to my mind.

Jim

[bobah...@comcast.net]

Obviously there are fictional christian religious stories. Some of the Chick tracts for example. And any number of novels like Ben Hur, and the Robe.  For some reason we tend to relegate some random religions into a "mythology" category which really ticks off their followers. There's no need for us to be judgemental here.  Just report what it appears to us the publisher is intending the product to be.

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From: "James Ludwig" <narfs...@gmail.com>
To: gcd-...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Thursday, March 8, 2012 2:42:49 PM

Subject: Re: [gcd-genre] Genre #35 - Religious

[bobah...@comcast.net]

No it wouldn't.  It would still be an Archie story. 

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From: "Jim Van Dore" <jrva...@gmail.com>
To: gcd-...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Thursday, March 8, 2012 2:45:26 PM

Subject: Re: [gcd-genre] Genre #35 - Religious

[Tony Rose]

Yeah, I think we can all agree that Archie is fictional.  Can't we?



tony

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From: bobah...@comcast.net
To: gcd-...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Thursday, March 8, 2012 2:12:55 PM

[Jim Van Dore]

Archie isn't a genre.  Are you saying that Spire Archies should not be tagged as religious?  I would object to that.

Also, most Chick tracts are non-fiction in that they are non-narrative.

Jim

[Tony Rose]

I'm not sure that *most* of the Chick tracts are non-narrative, but a great many of them are and they should be called religious non-fiction.  However, that include a narrative, including "This is Your Life," are religious fiction.

I have not read the Spire Archies.  I'm aver that they are religious fiction, if the Archie characters appear.





tony

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From: "Jim Van Dore" <jrva...@gmail.com>
To: gcd-...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Thursday, March 8, 2012 2:15:31 PM

[Jim Van Dore]

I'm pretty sure they are.  You can see most of them at their site:

http://www.chick.com/default.asp

The important thing is not to worry about whether they are factual (which is what trips some people up), which was one of the reasons we changed Fact to Non-Fiction.

[Tony Rose]

We're agreeing, Jim, other than on the number of Chick tracts that are one way or the other.

FWIW, I've got all of 'em, less 10 or so.

tony

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From: "Jim Van Dore" <jrva...@gmail.com>
To: gcd-...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Thursday, March 8, 2012 2:22:16 PM

[Jim Van Dore]

I understand.  I was just providing that link so everyone could be on the same page.

Jim

[Tony Rose]

Re-reading my last couple of message, I'm surprised that anyone understood any of them considering how many typos and omitted words they contain.  Sheesh.  Must.  Slow.  Down.

tony

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From: "Jim Van Dore" <jrva...@gmail.com>
To: gcd-...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Thursday, March 8, 2012 2:31:37 PM

[bobah...@comcast.net]

Your distinction between fact and non-fiction escaped me while we were discussing it and still does.  The Archie one-way stories are religious fiction.

Fact and non-fiction mean the same thing as far as the dicitionary and I are concerned.

[Dave Reeder]

to be absolutely clear, i consider anything to do with gods, angels, divine beings, etc to be quite firmly fictional in the same sense that comics about elves or unicorns are fictional.

a belief in any such matters is, by its very nature, faith rather than fact based, therefore cannot be seen as biography etc.

dave

[Tony Rose]

You, me, and Miley Cyrus.




tony

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From: "Dave Reeder" <da...@cpidubai.com>
To: gcd-...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Thursday, March 8, 2012 3:10:47 PM

[bobah...@comcast.net]

Don't cause trouble Dave.  A lot of people say the same thing about the Higgs Boson.

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From: "Dave Reeder" <da...@cpidubai.com>

To: gcd-...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Thursday, March 8, 2012 4:10:47 PM

[Jim Van Dore]

I suspect this won't help.

Fiction tells a story.  It has a protagonist who experiences things, faces obstacles.

Non-fiction does not tell a story.  It presents information.

Fact implies something is true.  "It's a fact!"

So if I write a book about how chimpunks are causing climate change, I would be writing non-fictionm even though what I would be writing is not factual.

Jim

[Bob Hughes]

Oh NOw you want facts to be true!
No, seriously, I can accept that distinction.

Bob Hughes

"Information is not knowledge; knowledge is not wisdom; wisdom is not truth; truth is not beauty; beauty is not love; love is not music.  Music is best."

                                                     Frank Zappa- Joe's Garage Act III

[Dave Reeder]

the difference is that both chipmunks and climate change are demonstrable, real life entities. monkey gods or archangels are not.

however, i seem to be ploughing a lonely furrow here, so i will defer to the majority.

assuming you all exist…

dave

[Bob Hughes]

I suspect more people have seen archangels than have seen climate change.
But if we don't stop, we'll probably get banned.

[Tony Rose]

I have a theory that global warming is being caused by invisible, intangible time travelers from the future.  I think there are billions and billions and billions of them, all around us and their body heat is driving the global temperature up.

Also, they're watching me in the shower.

tony

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From: "Jim Van Dore" <jrva...@gmail.com>
To: gcd-...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Thursday, March 8, 2012 5:05:11 PM

[bobah...@comcast.net]

Think how much they save on your water heating bill!

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From: "Tony Rose" <tonyr...@comcast.net>
To: gcd-...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Friday, March 9, 2012 8:54:36 AM

[James Ludwig]

WHY did you force me to think of the word PROBE ?

[Jim Van Dore]

Reviewing this thread...that was a slip on my part. I was trying to
give an example each of non-fiction and fiction. So the Archie one
was meant to be my fiction example. Sorry about that.

Jim

On Mar 8, 3:12 pm, bobahug...@comcast.net wrote:
> No it wouldn't.  It would still be an Archie story.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jim Van Dore" <jrvand...@gmail.com>
> To: gcd-...@googlegroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, March 8, 2012 2:45:26 PM
> Subject: Re: [gcd-genre] Genre #35 - Religious
>
> A faithful presentation of someone's religious traditions would be non-fiction.  Archie Andrews learning about Jesus's love for him would be non-fiction.
>
> Jim
>

> On Thu, Mar 8, 2012 at 2:42 PM, James Ludwig < narfsta...@gmail.com > wrote:
>
> I go along with that. But would caution that except for Mythology and
> some other "agreed" upon items, the indexer may wish to reserve
> judgement.
>

[Jim Van Dore]

With Dave deferring to the majority on the issue of classifying all
religious stories and features as fiction, and adding the non-US
example, I believe we are done here.

Jim

On Mar 8, 2:13 pm, Jim Van Dore <jrvand...@gmail.com> wrote:
> As noted in the other thread, this is an existing genre that I overlooked,
> though we discussed it from time to time.
>
> 35. Religious
>
> A. This genre consists of works centered on a particular religious
> tradition or reflecting a particular religious point of view.
>
> B. Example keywords include mythology and propaganda.
>
> C. Examples include Picture Stories from the Bible, The Crusaders, and Amar Chitra Katha
>
> I need, as always, a non-US example.

[Brian Saner Lamken]

Late to the game again, I'm afraid…

A label like Religious can obviously be dicey. I think that we need to concentrate on the content of the story and — whether the framework of the story is clearly fictional or whether it would be fictional to someone not of the faith represented or whether it's clearly from a historical or biographical perspective — give a Genre of Religious purely based on that content just like Medical or Fashion or Western-Frontier. Then if History or Biography or Satire-Parody or Drama or Adventure would also apply, indicate that as well. Neither we in our guidelines nor the indexer in his/her indexing have to make a value judgment on the validity of the faith- or scripture-based aspect of the story.

Blam

Jim Van Dore wrote:

> As noted in the other thread, this is an existing genre that I overlooked, though we discussed it from time to time.
>
> 35. Religious
>
> A. This genre consists of works centered on a particular religious tradition or reflecting a particular religious point of view.
>
> B. Example keywords include mythology and propaganda.
>

> C. Examples include Picture Stories from the Bible, The Crusaders, and ?

>
> I need, as always, a non-US example.

Brian Saner Lamken
blamken.blogspot.com

"My grandpa told me when I was a pup... 'Howl at midnight, three strong.' Then again, they did put Grandpa down the next day."
— Whitey, "Stray"; The Dark Horse Book of Hauntings (Dark Horse, 2003)