Non-English-speaking genres

[Jim Van Dore]

Does anyone have good sources for Japanese and Italian comics genres?

Looking at the usage report, Italian giallo has 784 occurrences in the database, but there are others that look like Italian-specific genres.

Jim

[Mark]

For manga you get the age groupings/types:
Kodomo - for kids
Shonen - for teen males
Shojo - for teen females
Seinen - for young adult males
Redisu - for young adult females
Seijin - for adult males
Dojinshi - amateur publications
Yonkoma - newspaper panels

Actually I just found this, which is pretty good with little
explanations against them.
http://www.mangaupdates.com/genres.html

Mark

[Brian Saner Lamken]

Jim Van Dore wrote:

> Non-English-speaking genres

So are those genres that don't speak English?

(And would the American publication 'Amour' be the love that dare not speak its name?)

I'm tired.

Blam

Brian Saner Lamken
blamken.blogspot.com

"You are indeed possessed, for those are not the words of a friendly Bavarian farmer!"
— Doctor Strange, "The Possessed!"; Strange Tales #118 (Marvel, 1964)

[Tony Rose]

Here's what I've got for manga:

chanbara or kengeki = stories, usually set in the Edo period, featuring sword fighting
essei = chronicle occurrences in the life of the author in a diary or blog form, often published online.
jōhō or sararīman = stories featuring businessmen
akushon = stories dominated by action sequences.
bōken = characters are continually placed in dangerous situations, often while on a journey.
fantajī = plot or setting contains supernatural elements
fūshi = Satirical stories with ridicule and critique of individual or human shortcomings as a main plot element.
gyagu = comedy as the main purpose of the plot.
hāremu = stories in which, for some reason, a male protagonist comes to be surrounded by a group of attractive girls or women.
horā = Horror
rabukomedi = romantic comedy
renai = romance
suiri = detectives
dōbutsu = anthropomorphic animals as important characters.
gakuen = stories which take place in a school setting.
isha =  medical
jikken =  stories about the medium of manga itself
kakutō = dominated by battle scenes
keizai = finance and economy stories, I think
mājan = stories with mahjong as a main subject.
moe = stories about moe girls (big eyes and bangs)
pachinko = stories about pachinko playing
ryōri = cooking or eating stories
seikimatsu =  post-apolyptic science fiction
sensō = war
supōtsu = sports
yakuza = crime stories about gangsters
yakyū =  baseball
shotakon = erotic comics about young boys
hentai = hard core porn
ecchi = soft porn
lilicon = erotic comics about young girls
mecha = giant robots
yuri = female homosexual romance
yaoi = male homosexual romance
kauju = giant monsters

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From: "Jim Van Dore" <jrva...@gmail.com>
To: "gcd-genre" <gcd-...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 9, 2012 12:10:52 PM
Subject: [gcd-genre] Non-English-speaking genres

[bobah...@comcast.net]

If we'd just used these we could have saved ourselves a lot of time.

---

From: "Tony Rose" <tonyr...@comcast.net>
To: gcd-...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Friday, February 10, 2012 12:04:45 PM
Subject: Re: [gcd-genre] Non-English-speaking genres

[Jim Van Dore]

Can we agree that all the manga genres that fit under romance or erotica we can eliminate from discussion...with the understanding that they can be keywords?  In other words, that they do not rise to the level of genre for our purposes.

Jim

[Dave Reeder]

makes sense to me.

dave

[Tony Rose]

I'm really having a fit of cognitive dissonance over these manga genres.  I think our regular genre list can be used to describe all of them, but I KNOW that Japanese comics people are going to expect to find the terms they are comfortable with.  If we use manga terms, do we restrict them only to items published in Japan or reprinted from Japanese publications?

I guess I need to hear others express their opinions before mine can become clear to me.




tony

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From: "Jim Van Dore" <jrva...@gmail.com>

To: gcd-...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Friday, February 10, 2012 1:08:19 PM

Subject: Re: [gcd-genre] Non-English-speaking genres

[Jim Van Dore]

My thinking is most of them work very well as keywords, other than the list of target age group, which I don't think we want to put here.

I mean, isn't Mecha a subset of science fiction? And so on.

I figure that any keyword that is legitimately a genre and used enough times can someday be on the official list.  And vice verse.

Jim

[Dave Reeder]

i don't think language is the barrier. i think it's the unspoken desire for a global comics database that tries to shoehorn everything into an american format…

dave

[Jim Van Dore]

I really dont think we do that.  I understand why people say things like that, but it is very hard for those of us only or primarily familiar with American comics to anticipate the needs of all comics everywhere.

And sometimes we come up with policies that work better for European comics than American, like treating books as series.

At least in my opinion.

And, sorry that this is in response to you, Dave, because you aren't someone who does this often that I've noticed, but a blanket criticism of American-bias get us nowhere.  We need to know the specific problems, we need to know the specific needs of the non-Americans, in order to respond.

And if no one is going to index manga, bending over backwards to satisfy their every possible desire (which we most certainly are NOT doing for Americans) seems ridiculous.

Jim

[Dave Reeder]

one obvious starting point is the insistence that the indicia is the key element of any record.

that is not something that is usual in uk comics. we might have a publisher statement (copyright, publisher address, etc) but other details such as title and date would only normally be found on the cover.

equally, the 50% comics rule is very discriminatory against a whole history of english comics. we do not, generally, distinguish between all-comic content or a selection of comic content plus text stories or even all text stories. this grows out of our history of story papers like ;'champion' and the rest. the english comics i read as i was growing up - from 'eagle' to 'lion' to 'champion' and so on - were considered by me and all my friends as 'comics', whether they were all sequential art or text stories. 

i have the greatest love and respect for american comics. i think the work the gcd does is essential and worthy of support. but i also take a wider view that 'comics' come in multiple formats for multiple audiences and that maybe a wider, more inclusive definition and indexing format might be more useful.

that's all.

dave

ps and, yers, i do understand the issue of drawing a line between 'story papers' and 'comics'. 

[Tony Rose]

We have some English-translations of manga indexed.  Not a lot, but some.

tony

---

From: "Jim Van Dore" <jrva...@gmail.com>
To: gcd-...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Friday, February 10, 2012 1:35:05 PM

[Brian Saner Lamken]

Jim wrote:

> Can we agree that all the manga genres that fit under romance or erotica we can eliminate from discussion...with the understanding that they can be keywords? In other words, that they do not rise to the level of genre for our purposes.

Tony wrote:

> I'm really having a fit of cognitive dissonance over these manga genres. I think our regular genre list can be used to describe all of them, but I KNOW that Japanese comics people are going to expect to find the terms they are comfortable with. If we use manga terms, do we restrict them only to items published in Japan or reprinted from Japanese publications?
>
> I guess I need to hear others express their opinions before mine can become clear to me.

Yes, Jim, I *think* so, but kinda what Tony said. 8^)

Blam

Brian Saner Lamken
blamken.blogspot.com

"Batman must win! If he should lose this duel, his inferiority complex could become permanent!"
— Robin, "The Feud Between Superman and Batman"; World's Finest Comics #143 (DC, 1964)

[bobah...@comcast.net]

I think we should try to match manga genres to our existing list and then add them as examples/alternates- and most of the ones that are too specific we suggest as keywords.

---

From: "Jim Van Dore" <jrva...@gmail.com>
To: gcd-...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Friday, February 10, 2012 2:08:19 PM

Subject: Re: [gcd-genre] Non-English-speaking genres

[bobah...@comcast.net]

Everything is a subset of science fiction. That's not a good argument.  Mecha might be a legitmate addition to the genre list.

---

From: "Jim Van Dore" <jrva...@gmail.com>
To: gcd-...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Friday, February 10, 2012 2:26:07 PM

[Jim Van Dore]

Agreed.

[Tony Rose]

That has a great deal of merit.




tony

---

From: bobah...@comcast.net
To: gcd-...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Friday, February 10, 2012 3:23:49 PM

[Jim Van Dore]

Going through Mark's list, my opinions follow. Short summary: I'd add
Hentai as example keyword under Erotica; Mecha as example keyword
under Science Fiction, Psychological as example keyword under Drama,
School Life as example keyword under Teen, and perhaps Slice of Life
and Tragedy under Drama and Supernatural under Horror-Suspense.

The rest are either target audience, sex genres, or already covered.

Jim


Action -> On list as Adventure (will add as example)
Adult -> Age-related, not genre
Adventure -> on list
Comedy -> on list as humor
Doujinshi (fan-work) -> not genre
Drama – on list
Ecchi (fan-sex) –> not genre
Fantasy -> on list
Gender-Bender -> not on list, keyword certainly
Harem -> not on list, keyword certainly
Hentai (adult sex) -> Erotica surely; probably good example keyword
Historical -> Period equivalent, so not on list
Horror -> on list as horror-suspense
Josei (young adult women) -> target age
Lolicon (girl porn) -> Erotica
Martial Arts -> on list
Mature -> Erotica or target age
Mecha -> Science Fiction, probably good example keyword
Mystery -> On list as Detective-Mystery
Psychological -> Drama or horror-suspense keyword
Romance -> on list
School Life -> Under Teen, probably good example keyword
Sci-Fi –> On list as Science fiction
Seinen (young adult men) -> target audience
Shotacon (boy porn) -> Erotica, keyword
Shoujo (female audience) -> target audience
Shounen (male audience) -> target audience
Slice of Life -> Drama; keyword
Smut -> Erotica, keyword
Sports -> On list
Supernatural -> On list as Horror-Suspense keyword
Tragedy -> Drama, keyword
Yaoi (gay male) -> Erotica, probably good example keyword
Yuri (gay female) -> Erotica, keyword

[Jim Van Dore]

I dont see anything much different on Tony's list:


Adventure - chanbara or kengeki = stories, usually set in the Edo
period, featuring sword fighting
Biography - essei = chronicle occurrences in the life of the author in

a diary or blog form, often published online.

Drama (add as keyword?) - jōhō or sararīman = stories featuring
businessmen
Adventure - akushon = stories dominated by action sequences.
Adventure - bōken = characters are continually placed in dangerous

situations, often while on a journey.

Horror-Suspense - fantajī = plot or setting contains supernatural
elements
Humor - fūshi = Satirical stories with ridicule and critique of

individual or human shortcomings as a main plot element.

Humor - gyagu = comedy as the main purpose of the plot.
Erotica or Romance - hāremu = stories in which, for some reason, a

male protagonist comes to be surrounded by a group of attractive girls
or women.

Horror-Suspense - horā = Horror
Romance or Humor - rabukomedi = romantic comedy
Romance - renai = romance
Mystery-Detective - suiri = detectives
Anthropomorphic - dōbutsu = anthropomorphic animals as important
characters.
teen - gakuen = stories which take place in a school setting.
Medical - isha = medical
Drama (?) - jikken = stories about the medium of manga itself
Adventure - kakutō = dominated by battle scenes
Drama (add as keyword?) - keizai = finance and economy stories, I
think
Sports - mājan = stories with mahjong as a main subject.
Style, not genre - moe = stories about moe girls (big eyes and bangs)
Sports - pachinko = stories about pachinko playing
Drama or Humor - ryōri = cooking or eating stories
Science Fiction - seikimatsu = post-apolyptic science fiction
War - sensō = war
Sports - supōtsu = sports
Crime - yakuza = crime stories about gangsters
Sports - yakyū = baseball
Erotica - shotakon = erotic comics about young boys
Erotica - hentai = hard core porn
Erotica - ecchi = soft porn
Erotica - lilicon = erotic comics about young girls
Science Fiction - mecha = giant robots
Erotica or Romance - yuri = female homosexual romance
Erotica or Romance - yaoi = male homosexual romance
Horror-Suspense - kauju = giant monsters

[Mark]

On 10 February 2012 23:27, Jim Van Dore <jrva...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I dont see anything much different on Tony's list:

I think with those last two e-mails you pretty much nailed it, even as
a manga reader I'd be hard pushed to argue against those.

Mark