> We recommend that in the future genres may be added to the official
> list based on their number of uses as keyword and their qualification
> as a genre.
I don't remember us discussing this. Not that I'm against it per se, and I realize that there are two parts to the litmus test proposed, but I hafta tell ya that on my first reading of the sentence I thought, "Supernatural would be added in a week." I bring this up less to get back on that particular hobby-horse than to suggest that this makes it sound like the addition of Genres is to be considered a much more regular than than I would expect based on all the work we just did to pare the list down and short it up.
> We defer any recommendation on whether some sequence types should not
> accept genre identifications.
You noted that nobody had made a proposal and so I made one. It's true that nobody picked up on it, but I was surprised that there wasn't a poll or something to see if anyone wanted to pursue that further. The past couple of weeks I've been too distracted / exhausted by one of my cats getting sick and dying to pursue the thread myself.
> 1. Adventure ...
> C. See also animal, aviation, car, crime, detective-mystery, fantasy,
> horror-suspense, jungle, martial arts, science fiction, sports, spy,
> superhero, sword and sorcery, war, and western-frontier.
Don't we maybe want to knock a few of those off? I submit that just because an(other) official Genre *can* have Adventure-like qualities doesn't mean that it would — Superhero, War, Martial Arts, sure, but to me Animal and Sports can go right out while many of the others just be subsumed into a catch-all. Perhaps "See also crime, detective-mystery, jungle, martial arts, superhero, western-frontier, and several others, as comics publications often have an inherent bent of adventure".
> 3. Humor ...
> C. See also anthropomorphic, children, domestic, military, satire-
> parody, and teen.
Military? I wouldn't… oh, wait, I see that we separated it out from War.
> 4. Non-Fiction
> A. This genre consists of works purporting to present factual
> information.
> B. This genre includes fact and real life.
> C. See also biography, history, math & science, and nature.
> D. Examples include Ripley's Believe It or Not.
Non-Fiction is not a genre, and I'll believe that 'til I'm blue in the face. I won't be holding my breath, mind you; I just mean that even if someone were painting my face blue I would be happy to expound on how ridiculous this is. 8^) I especially don't get having Non-Fiction if we do have all the things listed in C, although I realize that this is meant to cover what was Fact and what I think is far better kept that way.
> 14. Science Fiction ...
> C. Examples include Buck Rogers, Star Wars, and Dr. Who.
This is one of the places, Horror-Suspense being another, where I think that excluding mention of anthologies because we give a Genre to Features or Sequences rather than Series hurts us in terms of representing the full breadth of potential examples. I would include, perhaps instead of Star Wars, "one-shot stories in such anthologies as Weird Science [or Mystery in Space]".
> 25. Anthropomorphic ...
> B. Example keywords include Disney and furry animals.
Don't we mean "funny animals" here? I've heard the terms "furries" — especially thanks to many years in CAPA-Alpha with Carl Gafford — and of course "funny animals" but "furry animals" is unfamiliar and seems redundant.
> 28. Military
> A. This genre consists of works featuring armed forces outside of
> combat, or related, situations.
I really think that not lumping this and War together like Western-Frontier is a mistake, particularly given our attempts to tighten the list and particularly when, grumble grumble, something that Supernatural fits so well has to be tagged with Fantasy or Horror-Suspense.
> 1. Political/Propaganda
> The things formerly categorized under this genre would be now be
> tagged with non-fiction, religious, or other tags.
There is no Genre of Religious. I took that sentence to refer to keywords at first, but Non-Fiction is a Genre and keywords are mentioned by name in the next sentence.
Unless I missed it there's nothing in here until discussion under the section on Current Genres Recommended for Elimination that explicitly preserves the notion of making more than one Genre selection, which in some cases is crucial. Perhaps it should be included with the opening statement about a drop-down menu.
I didn't realize that we'd made some of the decisions that we apparently did, but I can chalk that up to not always having the time or ability to pay attention to the extent that I would have liked. I'm still impressed that we did this, however, and our committee co-chairs, Jim in particular, deserve a great big unironic pat on the back.
>
Blam
Brian Saner Lamken
blamken.blogspot.com
"Ohhh! You're creating a terrible nightmare in my head!"
— Dream Girl, "The Secret Villain the World Never Knew"; Superboy #218 (DC, 1976)
On Thu, Mar 8, 2012 at 2:41 PM, Tony Rose <tonyr...@comcast.net> wrote:
> Speak fer yerself. :)
>
>
dave
I want to (belatedly, as usual) reiterate that my aim was not so much to demand that certain topics get addressed — or re-addressed… or redressed... And I'm certain that I *did* miss a discussion on occasion. It was just to pipe up on what I felt were important points in case, like you suggested, anyone else concurred on making one last go at this or that.
> whereas I was proud we had managed to reduce the number of official genres, he questioned whether that was part of our mandate, and I could find no evidence that it was.
No, I didn't take our mandate to explicitly include the reduction in size of [dun-dun-*dunnnn*] The Approved Genre List, although I'd expect that to be a by-product of us examining and tightening it up. And while the list of officially sanctioned Genres may not be any shorter now, if you consider that we went from (1) allowing write-ins as long as they were accompanied by at least one of the Approved Genres to (2) [a recommendation of] *only* allowing Approved Genres to be entered then we've certainly ended up with a shorter list. 34 is definitely < whatever the number of Approved Genres was before + the commonly used supplementary entires + theoretically anything else that an indexer would put in and an approver would not reject.
> On the question of sequence type and genre, there were several suggestions made by you, Mark, and someone else. None were seconded, so none were moved to discussion or voting.
I know that this is too late to do any good, and it's not really a complaint so much as a lament of likely misunderstanding / failure of realization on my part, but I'm compelled to mention that I didn't realize that certain things brought up by others that I thought were a good idea were more likely to have threads started on them by you if I chimed in to support them. In general I only reply to a comment that I support if I have something to add; I tend not to just ditto / "plus one" a comment unless I really feel strongly about it in the face of obvious opposition or if I know that some kind of informal poll is being taken.
> On the see alsos: All of the genres are listed under one of the first four.
I didn't realize what you meant by this for the longest time. Now I's got it, but I don't see the point, because I remain against the concept that if we're not breaking out certain Genres as Top-Level Genres (or whatever) the "other" Genres are nonetheless still subordinate to those first few Genres. The current definition of Adventure says "Realistic action and adventure stories that rely on the efforts of normal people to handle crises." And I continue to be of the mind that it should read along those lines — "realistic" and "normal people" — specifically contrasted with other Genres in which action or adventure play an explicit or implicit role per their definitions.
> On changing non-fiction to fact: That is a dead issue and I see no reason to open it or anything else on which we voted and came to a conclusion unless there is new information to discuss. I tried to address your concern in the discussion at the bottom. I will make it even clearer that there were objections: "Some on the committee objected that non-fiction is not a genre."
I appreciate it, and like I said above I'm not trying to relitigate it; it's just a big enough does-not-compute for me that I couldn't pass up the last chance to speak or forever hold my peace.
> From my side, I appreciate the acknowledgement, but to my mind I allowed this to go on much too long and we lost too many people along the way.
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree there, too, at least on the larger issue of you doing a yeoman's job in seeing this through particularly *because* it took so long and had so many hiatuseses.
> I also empathize with your loss. I have been separated from my cat much too much the past 2 years and now what it means to miss a pet.
Thanks; I still have to remember far too many times a day that he's not around. His sister is enjoying more lap time, but as much as I love her too that's not exactly a consolation.
Blam
Brian Saner Lamken
blamken.blogspot.com
"Subatomic particles of local materials rearranged themselves into a coded pattern to reform you! Do you understand me?"
— Superman, "Mission to Earth!"; Action Comics #571 (DC, 1985)