Fwd: Becoming and Editor

Lionel English

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Aug 10, 2012, 2:53:25 PM8/10/12

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I also have a note from Mike that needs our attention:

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Mike Nielsen

Date: Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 9:56 AM

I don't know if I sent it, or if it got lost in the shuffle of your vacation emails, but the committee has the layout of the new editor text.

I ran it past the editor list and there wasn't much outcry. There were a few items that specific people questioned but they either liked they answers or didn't care enough to push another agenda.

So I guess we just need the board to ratify and then get it on the website somewhere?

Here is the text:

EDITORIAL DUTIES

1) An editor must join the editor mailing list to stay current with topics. While not required to participate, they must read the posting on the mailing list and follow the discussions with attention. Joining the policy list, while not required, is recommended.

2) An editor must be committed to following and enforcing the formatting rules as currently set forth. Where the formatting documentation is not clear the editor should seek the advice of other editors to determine if data has been entered satisfactorily. Consultation of other editors can happen either on the Editor list or by placing an index in discussion mode, or both, depending on the circumstances of the situation.

3) The duty of an editor is the approval of indexes and covers. As often as possible an editor should log into the pending queue and examine indexes for approval. Editors may also check the error list and make such corrections as they are able and willing.

4) Editors should also be willing to help mentor new indexers.

BECOMING AN EDITOR

1) Indexer must have done enough indexing to have become a voting member of the GCD.

2) Indexer has indexed some complete books, as opposed to just tiny changes to already existing indexes.

3) Indexer has satisfactorily demonstrated that they follow the current indexing rules, so far as our "rules" are codified

4) Indexer has either asked to become, or another editor has proposed them to be appointed as an Editor.

5) A vote will be held among the active editors for granting Editor status. Indexer must receive at least 75% yes votes to become an Editor.

Mike Nielsen

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Lionel English

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lio...@beanmar.net

Merlin Haas

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Aug 10, 2012, 3:20:41 PM8/10/12

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Only thing I think that needs clarification is #5, that approval is
75 percent yes of votes cast, not of total editors. Under #2, there
was some discussion that an editor needs to be able to set up a
series and skeletons in addition to doing a complete index. (Ideally
an editor would be able to do everything, but even I haven't learned
how to download data and upload again.)

best -- Merlin Haas

><mailto:lio...@beanmar.net>lio...@beanmar.net
>

R Bottorff

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Aug 10, 2012, 10:35:06 PM8/10/12

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Yes clarification on the 75% rule would be nice. However, why does editors have a higher threshold of acceptance (75%) than election to the board does (plurality) or any other rule voted on? Probably too steep I think.

my best
-Ray

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Donald Dale Milne

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Aug 11, 2012, 8:15:33 AM8/11/12

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I questioned the 75% vote also, when this was submitted to the
Editors for comment. I'm thinking that a majority of ALL editors (not
voting editors) would be sufficient.

I also suggested that an editor needs to be able to set up a series
and skeletons in addition to doing a complete index. So that we can
continue discussion and offer any amendments, I'll make a motion to
adopt the recommendations.

- Don

Donald Dale Milne

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Aug 11, 2012, 8:17:56 AM8/11/12

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I move that the recommendations of the committee report on
EDITORIAL DUTIES and BECOMING AN EDITOR be adopted.

- Don Milne

> 1)Indexer must have done enough indexing to have become a voting
> member of the GCD.
> 2)Indexer has indexed some complete books, as opposed to just tiny

> changes to already existing indexes.

> 3)Indexer has satisfactorily demonstrated that they follow the

> current indexing rules, so far as our "rules" are codified

> 4)Indexer has either asked to become, or another editor has proposed

> them to be appointed as an Editor.
> 5) A vote will be held among the active editors for granting Editor
> status. Indexer must receive at least 75% yes votes to become an Editor.
>
> Mike Nielsen
>
>
>
> --
> Lionel English
> San Diego, CA

> lio...@beanmar.net <mailto:lio...@beanmar.net>

Lionel English

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Aug 11, 2012, 2:27:26 PM8/11/12

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Motion recognized. Second?

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Tony Rose

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Aug 11, 2012, 6:16:30 PM8/11/12

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second.

tony

From: "Lionel English" <lio...@beanmar.net>
To: gcd-...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2012 1:27:26 PM
Subject: Re: [gcd-board] MOTION: EDITORIAL DUTIES and BECOMING AN EDITOR

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Lionel English

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Aug 11, 2012, 7:30:28 PM8/11/12

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Second recognized.

Feel free to discuss.

Lionel English

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Aug 11, 2012, 7:38:46 PM8/11/12

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The board has a fixed number of seats to fill. It's an office. Editorship isn't that kind of position. The main criteria are knowing the rules and being able to work well with others. The latter suggests requiring a high level of buy in from other editors.

Tony Rose

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Aug 11, 2012, 7:53:22 PM8/11/12

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If we elect a bad board member, the idea is that the others will be able to deflect his "badness." If we allow a bad editor, we've got the possibility of bad data, misformatted data, angry indexers, angry editors all manner of other undefelcted badness. I suggested a 100% vote to Mike and the committee and it was discussed but it was decided that 75% would probably weed out enough bad actors.

tony

From: "R Bottorff" <carch...@yahoo.com>
To: gcd-...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2012 9:35:06 PM

Merlin Haas

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Aug 11, 2012, 8:07:36 PM8/11/12

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>Second recognized.
>
>Feel free to discuss.

Were we still thinking of clarifying the 75 percent of voting editors
rule and maybe adding "being able to add a series and skeleton" to
#2, or were we going to vote on this as is?

75 percent seems reasonable. If a nominee can't get that many "yes"
votes, then there's a problem somewhere. 100 percent is not
reasonable. One editor could blackball someone he didn't like (even
if everyone else endorsed him.)

best -- Merlin Haas

>
>On Aug 11, 2012 3:16 PM, "Tony Rose"

><<mailto:tonyr...@comcast.net>tonyr...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>second.
>
>
>
>
>tony

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Donald Dale Milne

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Aug 11, 2012, 8:33:48 PM8/11/12

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One question is unanswered: 75% of the total editors or of the
voting editors?

- Don Milne

On 8/11/2012 7:53 PM, Tony Rose wrote:
> If we elect a bad board member, the idea is that the others will be
> able to deflect his "badness." If we allow a bad editor, we've got
> the possibility of bad data, misformatted data, angry indexers, angry
> editors all manner of other undefelcted badness. I suggested a 100%
> vote to Mike and the committee and it was discussed but it was decided
> that 75% would probably weed out enough bad actors.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> tony
>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From: *"R Bottorff" <carch...@yahoo.com>
> *To: *gcd-...@googlegroups.com
> *Sent: *Friday, August 10, 2012 9:35:06 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [gcd-board] Fwd: Becoming and Editor

R Bottorff

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Aug 11, 2012, 8:57:10 PM8/11/12

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So that means you have to have 75% to vote them out if they are bad too?

my best

-Ray

--- On Sat, 8/11/12, Tony Rose <tonyr...@comcast.net> wrote:

Merlin Haas

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Aug 11, 2012, 9:28:17 PM8/11/12

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>So that means you have to have 75% to vote them out if they are bad too?
>
>my best
>-Ray

Well, technically this is only about adding editors. I don't know
that we have a policy for removing editors, though we should have
one, I suppose.

best -- Merlin Haas

>
>--- On Sat, 8/11/12, Tony Rose <tonyr...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
>From: Tony Rose <tonyr...@comcast.net>
>Subject: Re: [gcd-board] Fwd: Becoming and Editor
>To: gcd-...@googlegroups.com
>Date: Saturday, August 11, 2012, 7:53 PM
>

>#yiv273189428 p {margin:0;}

>If we elect a bad board member, the idea is that the others will be
>able to deflect his "badness." If we allow a bad editor, we've got
>the possibility of bad data, misformatted data, angry indexers,
>angry editors all manner of other undefelcted badness. I suggested
>a 100% vote to Mike and the committee and it was discussed but it
>was decided that 75% would probably weed out enough bad actors.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>tony
>
>

><http://groups.google.com/group/gcd-board>http://groups.google.com/group/gcd-board

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Lionel English

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Aug 12, 2012, 12:09:55 AM8/12/12

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Don made the motion to adopt with the intent we discuss and revise if needed.

In RE: to #2, given that Gregg adds each week's new books skeletons to the db, it is possible that an indexer who does mainstream U.S. comics might never have the opportunity to create new issues or series. Obviously those who index outside the mainstream and outside the U.S. still have that opportunity, but it doesn't seem like it needs to be a deal breaker. A lot of indexers might never need to do this, and there are so many editors that *do* know how to do this that I'd be OK with a new editor who hadn't yet had that opportunity.

In RE: to #5, there are two questions:

1) All editors, or all who vote?

2) 75%?

For (1), there's actually a sub-question not addressed--how would the vote be conducted? The editor list doesn't have a voting mechanism like the board or policy list do. It'd be pretty easy (I think) to have one set up--you'd want a hybrid of the two existing voting platforms (wouldn't need tokens; would need to be a member of the editor group (similar to board votes), passage wouldn't be based on simple majority but rather on specific threshold). But this might happen infrequently enough that we could just call for an open vote on the editor list.

At any rate, almost any voting system I can think of is based on the results of those who vote, rather than those who could have voted. No matter what threshold we decide for (2) below, we should require that that percentage of those voting vote in favor. Abstentions shouldn't influence the voting one way or the other. We have a large pool of editors already, and some of them pay less attention to the editor list than others. People who can't be bothered to vote at all shouldn't have an impact on what decisions get made.

Finally, on point (2)....I agree with the point raised on the editor list that we don't want an editor who only got a 51% approval rating. They won't be competing against other applicants; the vote is to establish whether the existing editors think the candidate in question would be a good editor. A good candidate would be one whom a majority of current editors would support. A large majority. I'd say at least 2/3, and I'm OK with 75%. That isn't too out of whack with the informal process that the existing editors had to pass--"anyone have a problem with Joe Candidate?" "Do we think he'd make a good editor?". A 75% vote is actually probably easier to get past than that informal criteria--with a 75% vote, you'd need several editors voting against someone to block them, and if you have that many editors voting against a candidate, that should be cause for concern. Editors are the people who interact most frequently with indexers, so we definitely want a high threshold for recruiting them--they need to be people who are easy to work with and who will work well with indexers.

On Sat, Aug 11, 2012 at 5:07 PM, Merlin Haas <mvh...@elpaso.net> wrote:

Second recognized.

Feel free to discuss.

Were we still thinking of clarifying the 75 percent of voting editors rule and maybe adding "being able to add a series and skeleton" to #2, or were we going to vote on this as is?

75 percent seems reasonable. If a nominee can't get that many "yes" votes, then there's a problem somewhere. 100 percent is not reasonable. One editor could blackball someone he didn't like (even if everyone else endorsed him.)

best -- Merlin Haas

On Aug 11, 2012 3:16 PM, "Tony Rose" <<mailto:tonyrose99@comcast.net>tonyr...@comcast.net> wrote:

second.

tony

From: "Lionel English" <<mailto:lio...@beanmar.net>lion...@beanmar.net>
To: <mailto:gcd-board@googlegroups.com>gcd-board@googlegroups.com

Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2012 1:27:26 PM
Subject: Re: [gcd-board] MOTION: EDITORIAL DUTIES and BECOMING AN EDITOR

Motion recognized. Second?

<mailto:lio...@beanmar.net>lion...@beanmar.net <mailto:<mailto:lionel@beanmar.net>lio...@beanmar.net>

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Donald Dale Milne

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Aug 12, 2012, 7:35:13 AM8/12/12

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If we wish to go with basing an editor vote on the results of those
who vote, then I would be OK with 75%. It is likely that not all
editors will vote on each candidate, so the threshold should be high
among those voting. If we wish to go that way, we probably need to
amend the motion to make it clear.

- Don Milne

> <<mailto:tonyr...@comcast.net
> <mailto:tonyr...@comcast.net>>tonyr...@comcast.net

> <mailto:tonyr...@comcast.net>> wrote:
>
> second.
>
>
>
>
> tony
>
>
> From: "Lionel English" <<mailto:lio...@beanmar.net

> <mailto:lio...@beanmar.net>>lio...@beanmar.net
> <mailto:lio...@beanmar.net>>

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> Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2012 1:27:26 PM
> Subject: Re: [gcd-board] MOTION: EDITORIAL DUTIES and BECOMING
> AN EDITOR
>
> Motion recognized. Second?
>
> On Sat, Aug 11, 2012 at 5:17 AM, Donald Dale Milne
> <<mailto:dond...@att.net

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Lou Mazzella

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Aug 12, 2012, 10:28:54 AM8/12/12

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Because editors work directly with the data and therefore have the potential to cause damage to the data, I would be much more comfortable with a higher threshold of acceptance.

-Lou

From: Lionel English <shoeb...@gmail.com>
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Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2012 7:38 PM

Andres Jimenez

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Aug 12, 2012, 10:38:27 AM8/12/12

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2012/8/12 Merlin Haas <mvh...@elpaso.net>:

> Well, technically this is only about adding editors. I don't know that we
> have a policy for removing editors, though we should have one, I suppose.

I also agree now it's the best moment for setting both politics.

I guess it makes sense to keep the same threshold for adding and removing.

--
Andres Jimenez

Daniel Nauschuetz

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Aug 12, 2012, 10:44:12 AM8/12/12

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Each aspect of the GCD has the potential for causing damage in different ways. I think that the rules for becoming an editor should be strigent, but no more so (or less) than is needed for the Board.

There absolutely needs to be a policy for removing an editor. It is unlikely to be needed, but you will appreciate it if you find yourself trying to oust a distruptive presence.

Daniel

From: Lou Mazzella <gloi...@yahoo.com>
To: "gcd-...@googlegroups.com" <gcd-...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2012 10:28 AM
Subject: Re: [gcd-board] Fwd: Becoming and Editor

Because editors work directly with the data and therefore have the potential to cause damage to the data, I would be much more comfortable with a higher threshold of acceptance.

-Lou

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Donald Dale Milne

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Aug 12, 2012, 1:19:07 PM8/12/12

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I could go for that as an amendment.

- Don Milne

Merlin Haas

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Aug 12, 2012, 1:32:52 PM8/12/12

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I have no problem with 75 percent for both adding and removing
editors. I wonder, however, if removal might not be better served by
its own motion. (We have to decide how it starts. Do a certain
number of editors petition the Board to call a vote to remove an
editor? Is a specific list of grievances needed? This is going to
be akin to an impeachment in US government, so specific procedures
need to be in place.)

I think just clarification to "voting editors" is all that is needed right now.

best -- Merlin Haas

Daniel

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Aug 12, 2012, 2:22:24 PM8/12/12

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wow. I can see no justifiable reason for keeping 75%. What are we concerned will happen if a simple majority is aythorized? Is there a fifth column within the editors that we need to prevent from getting stronger? GOB much?

You should honestly consider a practical removal policy. Is there a probation period? What activity warrents ouster? Is there an appeal process? Is there a wait period to reapply? It seems that you dont want to wait until you have an editor that you want gone before you figure out how.

You know how subversive that fifth column can be! ;)

Daniel

Merlin Haas <mvh...@elpaso.net> wrote:

Merlin Haas

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Aug 12, 2012, 4:27:21 PM8/12/12

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>wow. I can see no justifiable reason for keeping 75%. What are we
>concerned will happen if a simple majority is aythorized? Is there
>a fifth column within the editors that we need to prevent from
>getting stronger? GOB much?

The editors group has to work together and be on the same page. So
far we've been able to do that reasonably well. However the editors
are a small group of 30 or so. (Some more active than others. Some,
like me, bouncing in and out of approvals as time allows.) If an
applicant can't get 75 percent of the vote then that's probably a red
flag. Anyone who could only muster a simple majority would be
carrying baggage of some sort. (I can't see anyone that divisive
getting anywhere near half the votes.)

>
>You should honestly consider a practical removal policy. Is there a
>probation period? What activity warrents ouster? Is there an
>appeal process? Is there a wait period to reapply? It seems that
>you dont want to wait until you have an editor that you want gone
>before you figure out how.

That's why I thought this should be a separate motion. We've been
pretty lucky as far as editors go, even though there are some that
disagree on certain issues. But it only takes one to cause problems
(as we found out with the mailing lists). A formal procedure put in
place before any problem happened would give the Board some guidance.

I hadn't thought about a probation period. Maybe necessary, but the
75 percent rule would probably eliminate any shaky candidates.

I also should note that we don't have a lot of people asking to be editors.

best -- Merlin Haas

Tony Rose

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Aug 12, 2012, 7:01:40 PM8/12/12

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I'm in agreement with everything Lionel said. I think the votes could be handled directly by "roll call" on the list since it won't happen too terribly often and there won't be that many votes.

tony

From: "Lionel English" <lio...@beanmar.net>
To: gcd-...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2012 11:09:55 PM

To unsubscribe send email to gcd-board+...@googlegroups.com

R Bottorff

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Aug 12, 2012, 8:56:11 PM8/12/12

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Has any thought been given to take this vote out of the editors hands? It seems to me that if I got 80% of the vote as an editor, i may still have lingering resentment against the 20% who wouldn't vote for me. And you get people who just do not like people, just because. I know of at least two people on the editor list who, for some reason, has to snipe at me whenever I post something. I am sure if I tried to come aboard now there would be those who would push to not let me in because of it.

It seems to me this role shouldn't be decided on a popularity contest.

Just have the recommendations sent to the Board and have us decide yay or nay.

my best
-Ray

--- On Sun, 8/12/12, Merlin Haas <mvh...@elpaso.net> wrote:

> From: Merlin Haas <mvh...@elpaso.net>
> Subject: Re: [gcd-board] Fwd: Becoming and Editor
> To: gcd-...@googlegroups.com

R Bottorff

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Aug 12, 2012, 8:57:56 PM8/12/12

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So if only 3 vote and only 2 or those say yes, then that 67% would fail winning editorship. Shouldn't there be a minimum of voters to make a vote valid?

my best

-Ray

--- On Sun, 8/12/12, Tony Rose <tonyr...@comcast.net> wrote:

From: Tony Rose <tonyr...@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [gcd-board] MOTION: EDITORIAL DUTIES and BECOMING AN EDITOR

Lionel English

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Aug 13, 2012, 12:41:03 AM8/13/12

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Why would we want to create extra work for the board? And how would that change anything, given that almost all of us are editors anyway? Wouldn't your resentment scenario still apply, if that's a concern? You'd just be making the decision more public, and lowering the threshold for admitance (given that we only require a simple majority for decisions). We created a senior editor committee with the express purpose of adding a layer between ourselves and the editors. If the editors make the decision, then the decision is private to the editor list unless/until someone is added. Rejected candidates need not see who rejected them or why.

Given that this job requires the ability to work well with other people, the ability to convince a large segment of the current editors that you would make a good editor seems like a good thing. If you *can't* convince them, then you presumably don't have the people skills needed for the job.

Lionel English

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Aug 13, 2012, 12:51:40 AM8/13/12

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There are 45 members on the list. If only two of them vote in favor of a given candidate, then yes, they'd fail, and I wouldn't have a problem with that scenario.

What kind of minimum were you thinking of?

Andres Jimenez

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Aug 13, 2012, 1:07:11 AM8/13/12

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I would set a minimum quorum of about 20 editors (somewhere about at least 50% of all editors).

We can allow members not to vote in many situations, but becoming an editor or a board member involves a bigger implication on how the GCD works and we should require editors to participate.

Andrés

2012/8/13 Lionel English <lio...@beanmar.net>

--
Andres Jimenez

R Bottorff

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Aug 13, 2012, 4:51:12 AM8/13/12

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Create extra work for the board? Hilarious. Its not like we are swamped. Its not like we add editors daily. I am sure we could get through it.

If the Board is unwilling to do the work to approve agents that are representatives of the organization, then we are feeble, flaccid, and not worthy of approving anything.

And the argument that this process should be on the editor list so people wouldn't be subject to public scrutiny is exactly why we should NOT be doing this on the editors list. How often has their been complaints about the secretive nature of events on the Editors list that we had to address in some fashion or another? So we are creating a process now to approve people who act on the behalf of the GCD without people in the GCD knowing the process? Then we are back to square one on the matter.

I wasn't against the idea completely, but now I am.

my best

-Ray

--- On Mon, 8/13/12, Lionel English <lio...@beanmar.net> wrote:

R Bottorff

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Aug 13, 2012, 4:52:47 AM8/13/12

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How about a quorum of at least half of the eligible voting members?

my best

-Ray

--- On Mon, 8/13/12, Lionel English <lio...@beanmar.net> wrote:

R Bottorff

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Aug 13, 2012, 4:54:37 AM8/13/12

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I am inclined to go with that number too, if I go with the measure at all. My previous pronouncement remains a work in progress.

my best

-Ray

--- On Mon, 8/13/12, Andres Jimenez <gand...@gmail.com> wrote:

Donald Dale Milne

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Aug 13, 2012, 7:37:07 AM8/13/12

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I think this would be a good idea also. Half plus 1 must vote to
have a valid election of a new editor.

- Don Milne

On 8/13/2012 4:52 AM, R Bottorff wrote:
> How about a quorum of at least half of the eligible voting members?
>
> my best
> -Ray
>

> --- On *Mon, 8/13/12, Lionel English /<lio...@beanmar.net>/* wrote:
>
>
> From: Lionel English <lio...@beanmar.net>
> Subject: Re: [gcd-board] MOTION: EDITORIAL DUTIES and BECOMING AN
> EDITOR
> To: gcd-...@googlegroups.com
> Date: Monday, August 13, 2012, 12:51 AM
>
> There are 45 members on the list. If only two of them vote in
> favor of a given candidate, then yes, they'd fail, and I wouldn't
> have a problem with that scenario.
> What kind of minimum were you thinking of?
>
> On Sun, Aug 12, 2012 at 5:57 PM, R Bottorff <carch...@yahoo.com
> </mc/compose?to=carch...@yahoo.com>> wrote:
>
> So if only 3 vote and only 2 or those say yes, then that 67%
> would fail winning editorship. Shouldn't there be a minimum of
> voters to make a vote valid?
>
> my best
> -Ray
>

> --- On *Sun, 8/12/12, Tony Rose /<tonyr...@comcast.net

> </mc/compose?to=tonyr...@comcast.net>>/* wrote:
>
>
> From: Tony Rose <tonyr...@comcast.net
> </mc/compose?to=tonyr...@comcast.net>>
>
> Subject: Re: [gcd-board] MOTION: EDITORIAL DUTIES and
> BECOMING AN EDITOR
> To: gcd-...@googlegroups.com

> </mc/compose?to=gcd-...@googlegroups.com>

> Date: Sunday, August 12, 2012, 7:01 PM
>
>
> I'm in agreement with everything Lionel said. I think the
> votes could be handled directly by "roll call" on the list
> since it won't happen too terribly often and there won't
> be that many votes.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> tony
>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From: *"Lionel English" <lio...@beanmar.net
> </mc/compose?to=lio...@beanmar.net>>
> *To: *gcd-...@googlegroups.com
> </mc/compose?to=gcd-...@googlegroups.com>
> *Sent: *Saturday, August 11, 2012 11:09:55 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [gcd-board] MOTION: EDITORIAL DUTIES and

> <http://mc/compose?to=mvh...@elpaso.net>> wrote:
>
> Second recognized.
>
> Feel free to discuss.
>
>
> Were we still thinking of clarifying the 75 percent of
> voting editors rule and maybe adding "being able to
> add a series and skeleton" to #2, or were we going to
> vote on this as is?
>
> 75 percent seems reasonable. If a nominee can't get
> that many "yes" votes, then there's a problem
> somewhere. 100 percent is not reasonable. One editor
> could blackball someone he didn't like (even if
> everyone else endorsed him.)
>
> best -- Merlin Haas
>
>
> On Aug 11, 2012 3:16 PM, "Tony Rose"

> <<mailto:tonyr...@comcast.net
> <http://mc/compose?to=tonyr...@comcast.net>>tonyr...@comcast.net

> <http://mc/compose?to=tonyr...@comcast.net>> wrote:
>
> second.
>
>
>
>
> tony
>
>
> From: "Lionel English" <<mailto:lio...@beanmar.net
> <http://mc/compose?to=lio...@beanmar.net>>lio...@beanmar.net
> <http://mc/compose?to=lio...@beanmar.net>>
> To: <mailto:gcd-...@googlegroups.com
> <http://mc/compose?to=gcd-...@googlegroups.com>>gcd-...@googlegroups.com
> <http://mc/compose?to=gcd-...@googlegroups.com>
>
> Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2012 1:27:26 PM
> Subject: Re: [gcd-board] MOTION: EDITORIAL DUTIES
> and BECOMING AN EDITOR
>
> Motion recognized. Second?
>
> On Sat, Aug 11, 2012 at 5:17 AM, Donald Dale Milne
> <<mailto:dond...@att.net

> <http://mc/compose?to=dond...@att.net>>dond...@att.net

> <http://mc/compose?to=lio...@beanmar.net>>lio...@beanmar.net
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Donald Dale Milne

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Aug 13, 2012, 7:39:44 AM8/13/12

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I agree that a removal process for editors should be in a separate
motion. In fact, I think it would be a good idea to charge the
committee that came up with the current report to go back and create a
recommendation for removing editors.

- Don Milne

R Bottorff

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Aug 13, 2012, 7:56:33 AM8/13/12

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I see two main reasons to remove and editor. 1) combativeness to indexers and fellow editors (ala a certain someone we remember well), and 2) they stop editing or participating after an X amount of time.

my best
-Ray

--- On Mon, 8/13/12, Donald Dale Milne <dond...@att.net> wrote:

> From: Donald Dale Milne <dond...@att.net>
> Subject: Re: [gcd-board] Fwd: Becoming and Editor

Tony Rose

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Aug 13, 2012, 8:13:33 AM8/13/12

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If only 2 out of 30 think enough of the person to vote for him or her, I don't want them to be an editor.

tony

From: "R Bottorff" <carch...@yahoo.com>
To: gcd-...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2012 7:57:56 PM

Tony Rose

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Aug 13, 2012, 8:16:24 AM8/13/12

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I don't want to require an editor to vote, but setting a quorum of 20 votes, hmmm, that would require 15 votes to get admitted. At a minimum. Hmmmm.

tony

From: "Andres Jimenez" <gand...@gmail.com>
To: gcd-...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2012 12:07:11 AM

Tony Rose

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Aug 13, 2012, 8:17:45 AM8/13/12

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Personnel matters call for a certain amount of privacy and this is a personnel matter.

tony

From: "R Bottorff" <carch...@yahoo.com>

To: gcd-...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2012 3:51:12 AM

Tony Rose

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Aug 13, 2012, 8:19:29 AM8/13/12

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I'm okay with the editors coming up with a recommendation for removal, but I think I'd like the board to be the removing authority.

tony

From: "Donald Dale Milne" <dond...@att.net>

To: gcd-...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2012 6:39:44 AM

Subject: Re: [gcd-board] Fwd: Becoming and Editor

Daniel

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Aug 13, 2012, 8:22:15 AM8/13/12

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Not sure why my phone opted to send this only to Ray.

Daniel <nausc...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>Defing a quorum is good, and 50% seems fair if the editors typically have 50% participation. i defer that question to the editors on the board.
>
>I am still confused about the need for a super-duper majority. What does it buy us in real terms over a simple majority? Merlin's "red flag" could apply to board membership votes, board votes and policy votes, so what situation would 75% protect us from? Have there been cases in which the wisdom of the majority was called into question? Is there an advesarial system in which one group must seek compromise with the other in order to keep balance?
>
>Daniel

Lionel English

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Aug 13, 2012, 12:07:53 PM8/13/12

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Sounds right to me.

As an FYI, Mike indicated he's aware they need to tackle the issue of how to remove editors, but wanted to establish the criteria for becoming an editor first. So I think as soon as we finalize this discussion they'll begin work on the removal criteria, and our final decision will play heavily into that discussion.

Lionel English

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Aug 13, 2012, 12:16:04 PM8/13/12

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You didn't address my main question, and it could be because it probably wasn't clear what my main question was, so I'll try again:

On Sun, Aug 12, 2012 at 5:56 PM, R Bottorff <carch...@yahoo.com> wrote:

Has any thought been given to take this vote out of the editors hands? It seems to me that if I got 80% of the vote as an editor, i may still have lingering resentment against the 20% who wouldn't vote for me. And you get people who just do not like people, just because. I know of at least two people on the editor list who, for some reason, has to snipe at me whenever I post something. I am sure if I tried to come aboard now there would be those who would push to not let me in because of it.

If we buy in to the idea of lingering resentment, then how does moving the vote from the editor list to the board list address that perceived problem? Instead of resenting the editors who voted against me, wouldn't I then resent the board members who voted against me? Who are probably editors?

It seems to me this role shouldn't be decided on a popularity contest.

How would a vote by the board be different?

Just have the recommendations sent to the Board and have us decide yay or nay.

Board votes are simple majority. Would you thus be advocating lowering the standard of approval from 3/4 to simple majority? Do we want an editor who four out of nine board members voted against? Would that not increase your resentment scenario?

And what about people who weren't approved? A board vote would mean everyone knew we were considering someone for an editorship, and there'd be a public, permananent record of our rejection of said individual.

Lionel English

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Aug 13, 2012, 12:30:58 PM8/13/12

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Daniel <nausc...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>I am still confused about the need for a super-duper majority. What does it buy us in real terms over a simple majority? Merlin's "red flag" could apply to board membership votes, board votes and policy votes, so what situation would 75% protect us from? Have there been cases in which the wisdom of the majority was called into question? Is there an advesarial system in which one group must seek compromise with the other in order to keep balance?

The board and the policy list are primarily decision making entities. And none of the members have any real power apart from their ability to participate in the votes that actually decide things.

Editors are not decision makers; this voting scenario would be an exception. A pretty rare exception at that; it's been a few years since we added any new editors IIRC. The main function of an editor is to peer review data submissions and work with indexers. If we use a city council analogy for the board, then the editors could be seen as teachers or a police force. We "hire" them as needed, and once hired they remain editors until they retire or we have some reason to remove them. So they have a great deal more "power" individually than board members or policy list members do; they interact with indexers on a daily basis, meaning it's very important they have proper people skills.

A simple majority vote is sufficient when making a binary decision such as should we do A or B? A plurality is often fine when choosing amongst A, B, or C. Editorial candidates are not competing against anyone though. We're looking to establish simple competency for the job at hand, so an academic standard is a better analogy--a 75% approval means a solid "C" or above passes, while a "C-" or below isn't sufficient. (Yes, it's somewhat of a poor analogy given that we're not offering training programs and assessment tests; but we don't have those resources).

Tony Rose

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Aug 13, 2012, 12:44:31 PM8/13/12

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What Lionel said.

tony

From: "Lionel English" <lio...@beanmar.net>

To: gcd-...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2012 11:30:58 AM

Subject: Re: [gcd-board] MOTION: EDITORIAL DUTIES and BECOMING AN EDITOR

Andres Jimenez

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Aug 13, 2012, 12:48:49 PM8/13/12

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+1

2012/8/13 Tony Rose <tonyr...@comcast.net>:

--
Andres Jimenez

Daniel Nauschuetz

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Aug 13, 2012, 1:29:04 PM8/13/12

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I am clearly an outsider on this, and my position is only getting stronger by phrases such as "great deal more 'power' individually" than other critical aspects of the GCD. My lone "nay" vote will not have an impact on this, so I will move on.

Cheers,

Daniel

From: Tony Rose <tonyr...@comcast.net>
To: gcd-...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2012 12:44 PM

Tony Rose

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Aug 13, 2012, 1:41:32 PM8/13/12

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Hang on, Daniel. You're confusing me. You think that because editors have a "great deal more 'power' individually" that it should be easier to become one? I'm not following you.

tony

From: "Daniel Nauschuetz" <nausc...@yahoo.com>
To: gcd-...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2012 12:29:04 PM

Donald Dale Milne

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Aug 13, 2012, 3:27:14 PM8/13/12

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Agreed, and he said it very well, too.

- Don Milne

On 8/13/2012 12:44 PM, Tony Rose wrote:
> What Lionel said.

>
>
>
>
> tony
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From: *"Lionel English" <lio...@beanmar.net>

> *To: *gcd-...@googlegroups.com
> *Sent: *Monday, August 13, 2012 11:30:58 AM
> *Subject: *Re: [gcd-board] MOTION: EDITORIAL DUTIES and BECOMING AN EDITOR

> lio...@beanmar.net <mailto:lio...@beanmar.net>

R Bottorff

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Aug 13, 2012, 8:49:56 PM8/13/12

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I would rather, yes after most editors voting than, let's say, on the off chance that only a handful do. I think 75% of 20 votes is better than 100% of 6 votes.

my best

-Ray

R Bottorff

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Aug 13, 2012, 9:00:00 PM8/13/12

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Same reason there is a difference between the local block club and the Congress, that if an greater authority authorizes something, it carries some weight and at least the illusion of impartiality. Whether it is, I know is problematic in reality. But sometimes impression counts.

my best

-Ray

Merlin Haas

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Aug 13, 2012, 9:02:03 PM8/13/12

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I have no problem with needing a quorum of half
the current editors casting ballots for a new
editor in order for the vote to be valid.

best -- Merlin Haas

>I would rather, yes after most editors voting
>than, let's say, on the off chance that only a
>handful do. I think 75% of 20 votes is better
>than 100% of 6 votes.
>
>my best
>-Ray
>
>--- On Mon, 8/13/12, Tony Rose <tonyr...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
>From: Tony Rose <tonyr...@comcast.net>
>Subject: Re: [gcd-board] MOTION: EDITORIAL DUTIES and BECOMING AN EDITOR
>To: gcd-...@googlegroups.com
>Date: Monday, August 13, 2012, 8:16 AM
>

>#yiv250016119 p {margin:0;}

>I don't want to require an editor to vote, but
>setting a quorum of 20 votes, hmmm, that would
>require 15 votes to get admitted. At a minimum.
>Hmmmm.
>
>
>
>
>
>tony
>
>

><<http://mc/compose?to=mvh...@elpaso.net>mvh...@elpaso.net>

>wrote:
>
>Second recognized.
>
>Feel free to discuss.
>
>
>Were we still thinking of clarifying the 75
>percent of voting editors rule and maybe adding
>"being able to add a series and skeleton" to #2,
>or were we going to vote on this as is?
>
>75 percent seems reasonable. If a nominee can't
>get that many "yes" votes, then there's a
>problem somewhere. 100 percent is not
>reasonable. One editor could blackball someone
>he didn't like (even if everyone else endorsed
>him.)
>
>best -- Merlin Haas
>
>
>On Aug 11, 2012 3:16 PM, "Tony Rose"

><<mailto:<http://mc/compose?to=tonyr...@comcast.net>tonyr...@comcast.net><http://mc/compose?to=tonyr...@comcast.net>tonyr...@comcast.net>

>wrote:
>
>second.
>
>
>
>
>tony
>
>
>From: "Lionel English"
><<mailto:<http://mc/compose?to=lio...@beanmar.net>lio...@beanmar.net><http://mc/compose?to=lio...@beanmar.net>lio...@beanmar.net>
>To:
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>
>Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2012 1:27:26 PM
>Subject: Re: [gcd-board] MOTION: EDITORIAL DUTIES and BECOMING AN EDITOR
>
>Motion recognized. Second?
>
>On Sat, Aug 11, 2012 at 5:17 AM, Donald Dale
>Milne

><<mailto:<http://mc/compose?to=dond...@att.net>dond...@att.net><http://mc/compose?to=dond...@att.net>dond...@att.net>

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Lionel English

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Aug 13, 2012, 9:17:36 PM8/13/12

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Does someone want to make a motion to amend?

Are we leaning towards a hard and fast number, such as Andres' 20, or a percentage, such as 50%?

On Aug 13, 2012 6:02 PM, "Merlin Haas" <mvh...@elpaso.net> wrote:

I have no problem with needing a quorum of half the current editors casting ballots for a new editor in order for the vote to be valid.

best -- Merlin Haas

I would rather, yes after most editors voting than, let's say, on the off chance that only a handful do. I think 75% of 20 votes is better than 100% of 6 votes.

my best
-Ray

--- On Mon, 8/13/12, Tony Rose <tonyr...@comcast.net> wrote:

From: Tony Rose <tonyr...@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [gcd-board] MOTION: EDITORIAL DUTIES and BECOMING AN EDITOR
To: gcd-...@googlegroups.com
Date: Monday, August 13, 2012, 8:16 AM

#yiv250016119 p {margin:0;}

I don't want to require an editor to vote, but setting a quorum of 20 votes, hmmm, that would require 15 votes to get admitted. At a minimum. Hmmmm.

tony

From: "Andres Jimenez" <gand...@gmail.com>
To: gcd-...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2012 12:07:11 AM
Subject: Re: [gcd-board] MOTION: EDITORIAL DUTIES and BECOMING AN EDITOR

I would set a minimum quorum of about 20 editors (somewhere about at least 50% of all editors).

We can allow members not to vote in many situations, but becoming an editor or a board member involves a bigger implication on how the GCD works and we should require editors to participate.

Andrés

2012/8/13 Lionel English <<>lio...@beanmar.net>

There are 45 members on the list. If only two of them vote in favor of a given candidate, then yes, they'd fail, and I wouldn't have a problem with that scenario.

What kind of minimum were you thinking of?

On Sun, Aug 12, 2012 at 5:57 PM, R Bottorff <<>carch...@yahoo.com> wrote:

So if only 3 vote and only 2 or those say yes, then that 67% would fail winning editorship. Shouldn't there be a minimum of voters to make a vote valid?

my best
-Ray

--- On Sun, 8/12/12, Tony Rose <<>tonyr...@comcast.net> wrote:

From: Tony Rose <<>tonyr...@comcast.net>

Subject: Re: [gcd-board] MOTION: EDITORIAL DUTIES and BECOMING AN EDITOR

To: <>gcd-...@googlegroups.com
Date: Sunday, August 12, 2012, 7:01 PM

I'm in agreement with everything Lionel said. I think the votes could be handled directly by "roll call" on the list since it won't happen too terribly often and there won't be that many votes.

tony

From: "Lionel English" <<>lio...@beanmar.net>
To: <>gcd-...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2012 11:09:55 PM
Subject: Re: [gcd-board] MOTION: EDITORIAL DUTIES and BECOMING AN EDITOR

Don made the motion to adopt with the intent we discuss and revise if needed.

In RE: to #2, given that Gregg adds each week's new books skeletons to the db, it is possible that an indexer who does mainstream U.S. comics might never have the opportunity to create new issues or series. Obviously those who index outside the mainstream and outside the U.S. still have that opportunity, but it doesn't seem like it needs to be a deal breaker. A lot of indexers might never need to do this, and there are so many editors that *do* know how to do this that I'd be OK with a new editor who hadn't yet had that opportunity.

In RE: to #5, there are two questions:
1) All editors, or all who vote?
2) 75%?

For (1), there's actually a sub-question not addressed--how would the vote be conducted? The editor list doesn't have a voting mechanism like the board or policy list do. It'd be pretty easy (I think) to have one set up--you'd want a hybrid of the two existing voting platforms (wouldn't need tokens; would need to be a member of the editor group (similar to board votes), passage wouldn't be based on simple majority but rather on specific threshold). But this might happen infrequently enough that we could just call for an open vote on the editor list.

At any rate, almost any voting system I can think of is based on the results of those who vote, rather than those who could have voted. No matter what threshold we decide for (2) below, we should require that that percentage of those voting vote in favor. Abstentions shouldn't influence the voting one way or the other. We have a large pool of editors already, and some of them pay less attention to the editor list than others. People who can't be bothered to vote at all shouldn't have an impact on what decisions get made.

Finally, on point (2)....I agree with the point raised on the editor list that we don't want an editor who only got a 51% approval rating. They won't be competing against other applicants; the vote is to establish whether the existing editors think the candidate in question would be a good editor. A good candidate would be one whom a majority of current editors would support. A large majority. I'd say at least 2/3, and I'm OK with 75%. That isn't too out of whack with the informal process that the existing editors had to pass--"anyone have a problem with Joe Candidate?" "Do we think he'd make a good editor?". A 75% vote is actually probably easier to get past than that informal criteria--with a 75% vote, you'd need several editors voting against someone to block them, and if you have that many editors voting against a candidate, that should be cause for concern. Editors are the people who interact most frequently with indexers, so we definitely want a high threshold for recruiting them--they need to be people who are easy to work with and who will work well with indexers.

On Sat, Aug 11, 2012 at 5:07 PM, Merlin Haas <<http://mc/compose?to=mvhaas@elpaso.net>mvh...@elpaso.net> wrote:

Second recognized.

Feel free to discuss.

Were we still thinking of clarifying the 75 percent of voting editors rule and maybe adding "being able to add a series and skeleton" to #2, or were we going to vote on this as is?

75 percent seems reasonable. If a nominee can't get that many "yes" votes, then there's a problem somewhere. 100 percent is not reasonable. One editor could blackball someone he didn't like (even if everyone else endorsed him.)

best -- Merlin Haas

On Aug 11, 2012 3:16 PM, "Tony Rose" <<mailto:<http://mc/compose?to=tonyr...@comcast.net>tonyros...@comcast.net><http://mc/compose?to=tonyrose99@comcast.net>tonyr...@comcast.net> wrote:

second.

tony

From: "Lionel English" <<mailto:<http://mc/compose?to=lio...@beanmar.net>lionel@beanmar.net><http://mc/compose?to=lio...@beanmar.net>lio...@beanmar.net>
To: <mailto:<http://mc/compose?to=gcd-...@googlegroups.com>gcd-bo...@googlegroups.com><http://mc/compose?to=gcd-board@googlegroups.com>gcd-board@googlegroups.com

Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2012 1:27:26 PM
Subject: Re: [gcd-board] MOTION: EDITORIAL DUTIES and BECOMING AN EDITOR

Motion recognized. Second?

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Donald Dale Milne

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Aug 13, 2012, 10:08:27 PM8/13/12

to gcd-...@googlegroups.com

I MOVE to amend the motion on the floor to modify Section 5) of the
"BECOMING AN EDITOR" recommendations to:
a) Require that all votes to grant Editor status must have a quorum of
at least 50% plus 1 of the eligible Editors voting to be valid.
b) Require that all votes to grant Editor status must have at least 75%
yes votes of those Editors voting on the question to be valid.

- Don Milne

On 8/13/2012 9:17 PM, Lionel English wrote:
>
> Does someone want to make a motion to amend?
>
> Are we leaning towards a hard and fast number, such as Andres' 20, or
> a percentage, such as 50%?
>
> On Aug 13, 2012 6:02 PM, "Merlin Haas" <mvh...@elpaso.net

> <mailto:mvh...@elpaso.net>> wrote:
>
> I have no problem with needing a quorum of half the current
> editors casting ballots for a new editor in order for the vote to
> be valid.
>
> best -- Merlin Haas
>
> I would rather, yes after most editors voting than, let's say,
> on the off chance that only a handful do. I think 75% of 20
> votes is better than 100% of 6 votes.
>
> my best
> -Ray
>
> --- On Mon, 8/13/12, Tony Rose <tonyr...@comcast.net

> <mailto:tonyr...@comcast.net>> wrote:
>
>
> From: Tony Rose <tonyr...@comcast.net
> <mailto:tonyr...@comcast.net>>
> Subject: Re: [gcd-board] MOTION: EDITORIAL DUTIES and BECOMING
> AN EDITOR
> To: gcd-...@googlegroups.com <mailto:gcd-...@googlegroups.com>
> Date: Monday, August 13, 2012, 8:16 AM
>
> #yiv250016119 p {margin:0;}
> I don't want to require an editor to vote, but setting a
> quorum of 20 votes, hmmm, that would require 15 votes to get
> admitted. At a minimum. Hmmmm.
>
>
>
>
>
> tony
>
>
> From: "Andres Jimenez" <gand...@gmail.com
> <mailto:gand...@gmail.com>>
> To: gcd-...@googlegroups.com <mailto:gcd-...@googlegroups.com>
> Sent: Monday, August 13, 2012 12:07:11 AM
> Subject: Re: [gcd-board] MOTION: EDITORIAL DUTIES and BECOMING
> AN EDITOR
>
> I would set a minimum quorum of about 20 editors (somewhere
> about at least 50% of all editors).
>
> We can allow members not to vote in many situations, but
> becoming an editor or a board member involves a bigger
> implication on how the GCD works and we should require editors
> to participate.
>

> Andr�s
>
> 2012/8/13 Lionel English <<>lio...@beanmar.net
> <mailto:lio...@beanmar.net>>

>
> There are 45 members on the list. If only two of them vote in
> favor of a given candidate, then yes, they'd fail, and I
> wouldn't have a problem with that scenario.
>
> What kind of minimum were you thinking of?
>
> On Sun, Aug 12, 2012 at 5:57 PM, R Bottorff
> <<>carch...@yahoo.com <mailto:carch...@yahoo.com>> wrote:
>
> So if only 3 vote and only 2 or those say yes, then that 67%
> would fail winning editorship. Shouldn't there be a minimum of
> voters to make a vote valid?
>
> my best
> -Ray
>
> --- On Sun, 8/12/12, Tony Rose <<>tonyr...@comcast.net

> <mailto:tonyr...@comcast.net>> wrote:
>
>
> From: Tony Rose <<>tonyr...@comcast.net
> <mailto:tonyr...@comcast.net>>
>
> Subject: Re: [gcd-board] MOTION: EDITORIAL DUTIES and BECOMING
> AN EDITOR
>
> To: <>gcd-...@googlegroups.com

> <mailto:gcd-...@googlegroups.com>

> <<http://mc/compose?to=mvh...@elpaso.net>mvh...@elpaso.net

> <mailto:mvh...@elpaso.net>> wrote:
>
> Second recognized.
>
> Feel free to discuss.
>
>
> Were we still thinking of clarifying the 75 percent of voting
> editors rule and maybe adding "being able to add a series and
> skeleton" to #2, or were we going to vote on this as is?
>
> 75 percent seems reasonable. If a nominee can't get that many
> "yes" votes, then there's a problem somewhere. 100 percent is
> not reasonable. One editor could blackball someone he didn't
> like (even if everyone else endorsed him.)
>
> best -- Merlin Haas
>
>
> On Aug 11, 2012 3:16 PM, "Tony Rose"

> <<mailto:<http://mc/compose?to=tonyr...@comcast.net>tonyr...@comcast.net

> <mailto:tonyr...@comcast.net>><http://mc/compose?to=tonyr...@comcast.net>tonyr...@comcast.net

> <mailto:tonyr...@comcast.net>> wrote:
>
> second.
>
>
>
>
> tony
>
>
> From: "Lionel English"
> <<mailto:<http://mc/compose?to=lio...@beanmar.net>lio...@beanmar.net
> <mailto:lio...@beanmar.net>><http://mc/compose?to=lio...@beanmar.net>lio...@beanmar.net
> <mailto:lio...@beanmar.net>>
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>
> Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2012 1:27:26 PM
> Subject: Re: [gcd-board] MOTION: EDITORIAL DUTIES and BECOMING
> AN EDITOR
>
> Motion recognized. Second?
>
> On Sat, Aug 11, 2012 at 5:17 AM, Donald Dale Milne

> <<mailto:<http://mc/compose?to=dond...@att.net>dond...@att.net

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Lionel English

unread,

Aug 13, 2012, 10:42:09 PM8/13/12

to gcd-...@googlegroups.com

Recognized. Is there a second?

Andrés

2012/8/13 Lionel English <<>lio...@beanmar.net
<mailto:lio...@beanmar.net>>

There are 45 members on the list. If only two of them vote in
favor of a given candidate, then yes, they'd fail, and I
wouldn't have a problem with that scenario.

What kind of minimum were you thinking of?

On Sun, Aug 12, 2012 at 5:57 PM, R Bottorff
<<>carch...@yahoo.com <mailto:carch...@yahoo.com>> wrote:

So if only 3 vote and only 2 or those say yes, then that 67%
would fail winning editorship. Shouldn't there be a minimum of
voters to make a vote valid?

my best
-Ray

--- On Sun, 8/12/12, Tony Rose <<>tonyr...@comcast.net
<mailto:tonyr...@comcast.net>> wrote:

From: Tony Rose <<>tonyr...@comcast.net
<mailto:tonyr...@comcast.net>>

Subject: Re: [gcd-board] MOTION: EDITORIAL DUTIES and BECOMING
AN EDITOR

To: <>gcd-...@googlegroups.com

<mailto:gcd-board@googlegroups.com>

<<http://mc/compose?to=mvhaas@elpaso.net>mvh...@elpaso.net

<mailto:mvh...@elpaso.net>> wrote:

Second recognized.

Feel free to discuss.

Were we still thinking of clarifying the 75 percent of voting
editors rule and maybe adding "being able to add a series and
skeleton" to #2, or were we going to vote on this as is?

75 percent seems reasonable. If a nominee can't get that many
"yes" votes, then there's a problem somewhere. 100 percent is
not reasonable. One editor could blackball someone he didn't
like (even if everyone else endorsed him.)

best -- Merlin Haas

On Aug 11, 2012 3:16 PM, "Tony Rose"

<<mailto:<http://mc/compose?to=tonyr...@comcast.net>tonyros...@comcast.net
<mailto:tonyr...@comcast.net>><http://mc/compose?to=tonyr...@comcast.net>tonyrose...@comcast.net

<mailto:tonyr...@comcast.net>> wrote:

second.

tony

From: "Lionel English"
<<mailto:<http://mc/compose?to=lio...@beanmar.net>lionel@beanmar.net
<mailto:lio...@beanmar.net>><http://mc/compose?to=lionel@beanmar.net>lio...@beanmar.net
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Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2012 1:27:26 PM
Subject: Re: [gcd-board] MOTION: EDITORIAL DUTIES and BECOMING
AN EDITOR

Motion recognized. Second?

On Sat, Aug 11, 2012 at 5:17 AM, Donald Dale Milne

<<mailto:<http://mc/compose?to=dond...@att.net>dondmilne@att.net
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Lionel English

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Aug 16, 2012, 11:23:53 PM8/16/12

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Still waiting for a second.

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R Bottorff

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Aug 16, 2012, 11:33:22 PM8/16/12

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second

--- On Thu, 8/16/12, Lionel English <shoeb...@gmail.com> wrote:

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Lionel English

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Aug 16, 2012, 11:42:22 PM8/16/12

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Second recognized.

I'll give this an additional day for discussion in case there are any last minute thoughts, then I'll call for a vote on this amendment tomorrow if nothing comes up.

Lionel English

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Aug 19, 2012, 1:16:25 AM8/19/12

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Lou, can we have a ballot on this motion to amend the motion on the floor?

Thanks

On Mon, Aug 13, 2012 at 7:08 PM, Donald Dale Milne <dond...@att.net> wrote:

I MOVE to amend the motion on the floor to modify Section 5) of the "BECOMING AN EDITOR" recommendations to:
a) Require that all votes to grant Editor status must have a quorum of at least 50% plus 1 of the eligible Editors voting to be valid.
b) Require that all votes to grant Editor status must have at least 75% yes votes of those Editors voting on the question to be valid.

- Don Milne

On 8/13/2012 9:17 PM, Lionel English wrote:

Does someone want to make a motion to amend?

Are we leaning towards a hard and fast number, such as Andres' 20, or a percentage, such as 50%?

On Aug 13, 2012 6:02 PM, "Merlin Haas" <mvh...@elpaso.net <mailto:mvh...@elpaso.net>> wrote:

I have no problem with needing a quorum of half the current
editors casting ballots for a new editor in order for the vote to
be valid.

best -- Merlin Haas

I would rather, yes after most editors voting than, let's say,
on the off chance that only a handful do. I think 75% of 20
votes is better than 100% of 6 votes.

my best
-Ray

--- On Mon, 8/13/12, Tony Rose <tonyr...@comcast.net
<mailto:tonyr...@comcast.net>> wrote:

From: Tony Rose <tonyr...@comcast.net
<mailto:tonyr...@comcast.net>>

Subject: Re: [gcd-board] MOTION: EDITORIAL DUTIES and BECOMING
AN EDITOR

To: gcd-...@googlegroups.com <mailto:gcd-board@googlegroups.com>

Date: Monday, August 13, 2012, 8:16 AM

#yiv250016119 p {margin:0;}
I don't want to require an editor to vote, but setting a
quorum of 20 votes, hmmm, that would require 15 votes to get
admitted. At a minimum. Hmmmm.

tony

From: "Andres Jimenez" <gand...@gmail.com
<mailto:gand...@gmail.com>>
To: gcd-...@googlegroups.com <mailto:gcd-board@googlegroups.com>

Sent: Monday, August 13, 2012 12:07:11 AM
Subject: Re: [gcd-board] MOTION: EDITORIAL DUTIES and BECOMING
AN EDITOR

I would set a minimum quorum of about 20 editors (somewhere
about at least 50% of all editors).

We can allow members not to vote in many situations, but
becoming an editor or a board member involves a bigger
implication on how the GCD works and we should require editors
to participate.

Andrés

2012/8/13 Lionel English <<>lio...@beanmar.net

<mailto:lio...@beanmar.net>>

There are 45 members on the list. If only two of them vote in
favor of a given candidate, then yes, they'd fail, and I
wouldn't have a problem with that scenario.

What kind of minimum were you thinking of?

On Sun, Aug 12, 2012 at 5:57 PM, R Bottorff
<<>carch...@yahoo.com <mailto:carch...@yahoo.com>> wrote:

So if only 3 vote and only 2 or those say yes, then that 67%
would fail winning editorship. Shouldn't there be a minimum of
voters to make a vote valid?

my best
-Ray

--- On Sun, 8/12/12, Tony Rose <<>tonyr...@comcast.net
<mailto:tonyr...@comcast.net>> wrote:

From: Tony Rose <<>tonyr...@comcast.net
<mailto:tonyr...@comcast.net>>

Subject: Re: [gcd-board] MOTION: EDITORIAL DUTIES and BECOMING
AN EDITOR

To: <>gcd-...@googlegroups.com

<mailto:gcd-board@googlegroups.com>

<<http://mc/compose?to=mvhaas@elpaso.net>mvh...@elpaso.net

<mailto:mvh...@elpaso.net>> wrote:

Second recognized.

Feel free to discuss.

Were we still thinking of clarifying the 75 percent of voting
editors rule and maybe adding "being able to add a series and
skeleton" to #2, or were we going to vote on this as is?

75 percent seems reasonable. If a nominee can't get that many
"yes" votes, then there's a problem somewhere. 100 percent is
not reasonable. One editor could blackball someone he didn't
like (even if everyone else endorsed him.)

best -- Merlin Haas

On Aug 11, 2012 3:16 PM, "Tony Rose"

<<mailto:<http://mc/compose?to=tonyr...@comcast.net>tonyros...@comcast.net

<mailto:tonyr...@comcast.net>><http://mc/compose?to=tonyr...@comcast.net>tonyrose...@comcast.net

<mailto:tonyr...@comcast.net>> wrote:

second.

tony

From: "Lionel English"

<<mailto:<http://mc/compose?to=lio...@beanmar.net>lionel@beanmar.net

<mailto:lio...@beanmar.net>><http://mc/compose?to=lionel@beanmar.net>lio...@beanmar.net
<mailto:lio...@beanmar.net>>

To:
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Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2012 1:27:26 PM
Subject: Re: [gcd-board] MOTION: EDITORIAL DUTIES and BECOMING
AN EDITOR

Motion recognized. Second?

On Sat, Aug 11, 2012 at 5:17 AM, Donald Dale Milne

<<mailto:<http://mc/compose?to=dond...@att.net>dondmilne@att.net

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Lionel English

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Aug 27, 2012, 12:32:43 AM8/27/12

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We have voted to amend section five of the proposal on becoming an editor (full and original text below) as follows:

a) Require that all votes to grant Editor status must have a quorum of at least 50% plus 1 of the eligible Editors voting to be valid.
b) Require that all votes to grant Editor status must have at least 75% yes votes of those Editors voting on the question to be valid.

It is my belief that these were the extent of the changes we were interested in imposing on the original recommendation. I'll allow another 24 hours for objections to that belief, and, if none are forthcoming, I'll call for a vote on Don's original motion with the amendments above tomorrow evening.

lio...@beanmar.net <mailto:lio...@beanmar.net>

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Lionel English

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Aug 28, 2012, 2:55:39 PM8/28/12

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Lou, please put up a ballot for this as well. The amended text we're voting on should read:

I move that the revised recommendations of the committee report on EDITORIAL DUTIES and BECOMING AN EDITOR (enumerated below) be adopted.

EDITORIAL DUTIES
1) An editor must join the editor mailing list to stay current with topics. While not required to participate, they must read the posting on the mailing list and follow the discussions with attention. Joining the policy list, while not required, is recommended.
2) An editor must be committed to following and enforcing the formatting rules as currently set forth. Where the formatting documentation is not clear the editor should seek the advice of other editors to determine if data has been entered satisfactorily. Consultation of other editors can happen either on the Editor list or by placing an index in discussion mode, or both, depending on the circumstances of the situation.
3) The duty of an editor is the approval of indexes and covers. As often as possible an editor should log into the pending queue and examine indexes for approval. Editors may also check the error list and make such corrections as they are able and willing.
4) Editors should also be willing to help mentor new indexers.

BECOMING AN EDITOR
1) Indexer must have done enough indexing to have become a voting member of the GCD.
2) Indexer has indexed some complete books, as opposed to just tiny changes to already existing indexes.
3) Indexer has satisfactorily demonstrated that they follow the current indexing rules, so far as our "rules" are codified
4) Indexer has either asked to become, or another editor has proposed them to be appointed as an Editor.
5) a) Require that all votes to grant Editor status must have a quorum of at least 50% plus 1 of the eligible Editors voting to be valid.

b) Require that all votes to grant Editor status must have at least 75% yes votes of those Editors voting on the question to be valid.

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