Lazarus
sande...@gmail.com
Regards
Sandeep
Michael Genereux
bee
Actually you can make G Framework compilable using FreePascal and
Lazarus. The specific Delphi features you're using now can be easily
converted to more "standard" object pascal. This way you'll have your
G framework cross platform through FreePascal and Lazarus.
Too bad such a good framework will can ONLY be run on Windows using
the commercial Delphi, while its functions are supposed to be cross
platform. This project will be a lot more interesting and promising,
also will attract other developers to join in, if it's cross platform
and can be used with other (free open source) modern object pascal
compiler.
This project suppose to be the Ruby On Rails of Object Pascal. Hope
you'll consider more about this bound to Delphi (only). Thanks.
-bee-
Michael Genereux
backwards to me. It would be nice if FreePascal was updated to
support these language features. There's hopefully going to be future
language updates to Delphi to bring it up to speed with Java and other
languages. I would like to see G use advanced features like
parametrized types and property attributes in the future to provide
the end application programmer with as declarative a method possible
for the foundation for their business logic. The release candidate
for FreePascal has parameterized types and that's exciting to me.
What are you thoughts given this perspective? Please post on the
group so that we can have a collaborative discussion on this. Thanks!
mg
Michael Genereux
Object Pascal". I hadn't seen that anywhere.
mg
On 6/29/07, bee <bee.o...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
bee
> backwards to me.
On language point of view, you got a point. But from functional/
purpose point of view, making this framework tightly bound to a
specific commercial compiler which can be run only on a specific
commercial OS seems like more steps backwards to me. Besides, I
believe Windows-only-minded developers wouldn't care much about other
framework/technology alternatives beside ASP.Net and IIS.
> It would be nice if FreePascal was updated to
> support these language features. There's hopefully going to be future
> language updates to Delphi to bring it up to speed with Java and other
> languages.
This framework still can be build using less-future language features,
but would have cross platform ability as the return.
> I would like to see G use advanced features like
> parametrized types and property attributes in the future to provide
> the end application programmer with as declarative a method possible
> for the foundation for their business logic. The release candidate
> for FreePascal has parameterized types and that's exciting to me.
Yes, FreePascal will add more and more language features in the
future. But, since FreePascal is a community open source project, you
can't precisely predict what features are going to be added on the
next releases. I'm still not mentioning the time line and roadmap. So,
I think we should focus to what current release offers than hoping
some features in the future release. If the requested features are
already available in stable state, we could improve the codes to use
those features.
> What are you thoughts given this perspective? Please post on the
> group so that we can have a collaborative discussion on this. Thanks!
This framework is about building a web application that run on server
side on a server farm. CMIIW. So, cross platform ability is an
important issue for such kind of framework due to variety of OSes that
is used on server machine. I believe non-Windows OSes (especially
Linux) have bigger market-share compare to Windows. From (user)
developers point of view who want to build a web application, me for
example, the deployment limitation of this framework is a negative
issue to me since I only have Linux and FreeBSD servers and wouldn't
consider to install Windows on my server machines. I prefer to choose
other frameworks such as IntraWeb, or Morfik, or Pascal Server Page
over G-Framework. Since I don't use this framework, I couldn't help
much to improve the code nor join into this project.
I hope this would clear my thought on cross platform ability of this
framework.
-bee-
bee
> Object Pascal". I hadn't seen that anywhere.
I didn't read, it's my own statement, and my hope as well. :D
-bee-
Michael Genereux
now stands is "a declarative web-based rapid application framework
written against the IDE/language/compiler provided with Delphi 2006".
Now that's not set in stone at all. It's the goal if you will that
keeps the core developers on task to producing a productive framework
for the sponsoring company. Everything was written to be not be
coupled to a technology unless there was good reason like a language
feature. I'll look into the workload required and what would be lost
by converting to FreePascal language compatibility. There may be
more than the list currently provided on the FAQ but if there's
interest, we should have a good idea as to what the commitment would
be for a core developer or a community member to implement.
mg
Michael Genereux
I agree with a lot of what you're saying. Let me present you with
this question though. Say G is coded for Delphi 7 and works with
FreePascal and commercial Delphi. Then both platforms come out with
language features that would make G just that much cooler but not both
languages implement. Does G suffer from this incompatibility? It's
like Linux. That operating system compiles on many platforms but
ultimately the Intel x86 platform is the target when certain
optimizations are implemented that work better on a specific platform.
Being brand new, G can't have two code bases this early on. As G
grows and it's community support grows, then the maintenance of code
becomes easier. For right now, Delphi needs to be the target for both
the shop sponsoring G and for the size of the Delphi community that
desires and would support a native web application framework as
opposed to Delphi for Windows apps and Ruby on Rails for web apps as
has been the case.
On the flip side (this coin has 10 sides and can be used for D&D), as
a Ruby on Rails developer replying to you using Firefox on Ubuntu
Feisty Fawn, I have a deep appreciation of open-source cross-platform
solutions. As I said, I'll look into the overall commitment of
FreePascal compatibility.
mg
On 6/30/07, bee <bee.o...@gmail.com> wrote:
bee
> this question though. Say G is coded for Delphi 7 and works with
> FreePascal and commercial Delphi. Then both platforms come out with
> language features that would make G just that much cooler but not both
> languages implement. Does G suffer from this incompatibility?
FYI, FreePascal (FPC) syntax is almost 100% compatible with Delphi 7.
FPC even has {MODE DELPHI} directive that 100% compatible with Delphi
7. So, I believe we don't need to worry about language incompatibility
here. And we all know that newer Delphi version after 7 still accepts
and compiles Delphi 7 codes without any modifications.
> It's like Linux. That operating system compiles on many platforms
> but ultimately the Intel x86 platform is the target when certain
> optimizations are implemented that work better on a specific platform.
Agree. But, since we're now talking about the language syntax
incompatibility between Delphi and FPC, I think optimization and
implementation of the framework features on specific platform is
another issue. I know that building a cross platform application is
not easy since every platform has its own way on implementing
something. That's the risk that we must accept for any cross platform
applications development. But, at least you already have eliminate the
language incompatibility syntax problems.
> Being brand new, G can't have two code bases this early on. As G
> grows and it's community support grows, then the maintenance of code
> becomes easier. For right now, Delphi needs to be the target for both
> the shop sponsoring G and for the size of the Delphi community that
> desires and would support a native web application framework as
> opposed to Delphi for Windows apps and Ruby on Rails for web apps as
> has been the case.
If you build G with cross platform ability in mind since the
beginning, you don't need to have two different code bases. Maybe
you'll need some IFDEF directives here and there, just like when we're
building VCL that targets different Delphi version, but it doesn't
need to be on different code bases. You also don't need to loose
Delphi community since G's code is still can be accepted by Delphi
compiler. By using Delphi 7 language features and syntaxes,
automatically you already had aimed G on two targets: Delphi community
and open source community (that is using FPC). You also will have
supports from both community. Look, everybody wins! :D
> On the flip side (this coin has 10 sides and can be used for D&D), as
> a Ruby on Rails developer replying to you using Firefox on Ubuntu
> Feisty Fawn, I have a deep appreciation of open-source cross-platform
> solutions. As I said, I'll look into the overall commitment of
> FreePascal compatibility.
If G's core developers have a solid commitment to make G cross
platform through FPC, without need to omit Delphi compatibility at
all, I believe you'll also get support commitment from FPC/Lazarus
community. Both Delphi and FPC/Lazarus lacks of web application
frameworks. Both communities are demanding such frameworks. Yes, there
are some web frameworks out there for Delphi and FPC, but none is like
G. Morfik as a commercial framework is considered too expensive,
Pascal Server Page as free open source project is considered too low
level, Intraweb only supports Delphi and Kylix (which is dead
already). G as a high level framework and an open source project seems
very interesting and promising for both communities.
-bee-
Goog
I agree that we should make G compatible with FreePascal. Although I
know about FreePascal's existence, I haven't actually used it. The
thing that keeps holding me back is its lack of package (specialized
delphi dll) support. G relies heavily on packages, so FreePascal
seemed to be a non-starter until it added that feature. Do you have
any idea when FreePascal will add package support? Are there
FreePascal developers who know how to add package support? If so, I'd
like to know how much it would cost, because I'd be interested to help
sponsor it.
Thanks for all your thoughtful feedback...
Goog
bee
> know about FreePascal's existence, I haven't actually used it. The
> thing that keeps holding me back is its lack of package (specialized
> delphi dll) support. G relies heavily on packages, so FreePascal
> seemed to be a non-starter until it added that feature. Do you have
> any idea when FreePascal will add package support?
According to FPC roadmap (http://www.freepascal.org/future.var),
package support will be added after v.2.2. No further detail
informations when and which version it will target.
> Are there FreePascal developers who know how to add package support?
I suggest you to join FPC development list. See the list address
here.... http://www.freepascal.org/maillist.var
There you can ask or discuss anything related to FPC developments,
also with FPC core developers.
> If so, I'd like to know how much it would cost, because I'd be interested to
> help sponsor it.
FPC/Lazarus has unique mechanism about sponsorship. It's called
Bounty. You can read more about it here... http://wiki.lazarus.freepascal.org/index.php/Bounties
> Thanks for all your thoughtful feedback...
No problem. Thank you for listening and considering my ideas about G.
If someday G can be compiled by FPC/Lazarus, I'll try to help G
development. ;)
-bee-