[Fur] Furnation Nakira = MPAA RIAA

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Furnation First

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Oct 11, 2003, 2:45:02 PM10/11/03
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FurFirst here!
Just to let you guys know that the FurNation crew is using the same
method of removing websites as the MPAA and the RIAA. It was nice
for the few days that the website was up, and we transfered over 1000
copies of Furnation Magazine #4. Many thanks to those who supported
us, and who are now sending us new material. Some of the new friends
we have made have been from as far away as siberia, in the far corners
of russia. Places where its difficult, if not impossible to get ahold
of copies of furry art. As well as, compared to the value of russian
currency, is unnaffordable. Those are the people that Nakira and
furnation exclude when they do not offer free, digital copies for
those who would rather see the magazine in a digital format. Have
they even considered offering the magazine at a much discounted rate
for those who would prefer digital transmission? I doubt it, and
while we encouraged those who downloaded the magazine to purchase it,
many did not. However, there is a percentage of those who have, such
as myself, who owns a copy of Furnation Magazine number 4.

We have several sites that are up now, and you can access privately.
Also we encourage you to run your own site! At irc.codenix.net in the
channel #furryunderground, we are a group of dedicated file sharing
furrys who want to spread the good art to as many furrys as we can!
We make no money doing this, and put our hard earned time and effort
into setting up servers and websites for the furry public to use.
Much like the effort a furry artist puts into their art! However we
do not aim to make any money from our craft, nor do we support those
who would use our images to make money off of them.

Please come down to irc.codenix.net and support us! We will gladly
share the furry art that we have for FREE with you!

Some of the things we are sharing are:
Furnation magazine 1-4
Fels 2003 art cd
Wookies 2002 art cd
Karabiners 2003 art cd
ASB 1-8
Genus 1-56
Genus Male 1-2
All Circles issues!
www.sexyfur.com site mirrors

And much much more! Please come on down and check out the stuff that
we have. We will be running some public sites with some of our
contend on alt.fan.furry and fur.artwork.erotica so keep your eyes
peeled!
Thank you for your support.. you know who you are!
-FurFirst

Nakira <nak...@rogers.com> wrote in message news:<3F86F36A...@rogers.com>...
> Greetings Furries,
>
> FurNation spent a few hours yesterday investigating the site hosting the
> FurNation magazines, ASB and my Wookiee CD. They made a few calls and
> received confirmation this morning that the site directory and the
> redirect were both removed with further investigation pending. I would
> like to personally thank the staff of FurNation for once again standing
> up for the artists and the furry community.
>
> Thank you!
> Wookiee

Furnation First

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Oct 11, 2003, 2:45:01 PM10/11/03
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artist

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Oct 11, 2003, 3:27:34 PM10/11/03
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Artist, the good little Microsoft drone heard furna...@fr.st
(Furnation First) say...

Whaaaat, you want a medal?

Your breaking the law, and violating the good faith of the authors in
question. How about, instead of stealing the stuff, you work *with* the
authors on a solution that would get the magazines and books out to
people who are having trouble getting them. Most of them are nice people
who just don't know about the plight of others.

Remember, the road to disaster is paved with good intentions. :(
--
AIM: GCCFurryBoy
mell...@yahoo.com
http://www.practialdesigns.com/

"Neither hope nor fear" -- Isabella d'Este
"For to do either is to fall to the beast" -- Joseph Richmond

Chakky

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Oct 11, 2003, 3:31:52 PM10/11/03
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*gets out his do not feed the trolls sign*


Rogue Gryphon

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Oct 11, 2003, 3:32:11 PM10/11/03
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Dude, if you feel as though art should be free, then YOU learn to draw and
distribute YOUR art to the Furry Fandom.

Otherwise, just stop being a prick and grow up for Pete's sake.


"Furnation First" <furna...@fr.st> wrote in message
news:b4c01ded.03101...@posting.google.com...

Preyfar

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Oct 11, 2003, 3:43:27 PM10/11/03
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Rogue Gryphon wrote:
> Dude, if you feel as though art should be free, then YOU learn to draw and
> distribute YOUR art to the Furry Fandom.
>
> Otherwise, just stop being a prick and grow up for Pete's sake.

Well, technically in a way, art is free. It's forced on us all on a
daily basis in the form of marketing, movies, music and television. It's
all around us, in our face. The art on these boards are free (to look
at). They all may have hidden messages in them, some of them saying "BUY
ME!" but for the most part, art doesn't have a cost. You can look at it.

It's just that you can't OWN A PHYSICAL COPY without having to pay.
Digital copies are sort of like memories: they're good, but never quite
as good as the original.

Technically having a digital copy isn't really owning anything at all,
because it's not tangible. 1's and 0's can be erased rather easily. This
isn't to say I support what's being done, but I'm just supporting the
notion that art is a bit more free than most people think.

The people who will buy the magazine will still buy it, even if they
downloaded it. Those that don't care... still don't, and probably
wouldn't have bought it in the first place.

This kind of "art trading" has been going on since I first got into the
fandom over seven years ago. People on yiff.net "traded" magazines and
art archives, and they still do it now.

The only thing I can suggest is that if you truly LIKE an artist,
support them by buying a print or an original or a CD. Artists EXPECT
(or should expect, anyway) that when they put something out in digital
form that it be stolen.

It's the way of the world.

Thieving is the second oldest profession.

- Preyfar

Stryyde

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Oct 11, 2003, 4:35:39 PM10/11/03
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I don't know, The artists who actually live off this stuff WITHOUT another
Job and use it as a source of income, Yeah, I would say Don't go stealin
from them as for those who just draw as a secondary source of income that
don't really need the cash they get from the art, they just like the extra
money eh heh well, Who would really want to look at their art anyways o.o??

My artwork is free, I do it because I like drawing I don't do it for the
cash, Now once I get good enough I will probaly start charging but never
while i'm in the military with a steady paycheck. If anything it would be a
Nonincome type the artwork pays for what I need to keep drawing. or
something to that effect.
"Preyfar" <pre...@furnation.com> wrote in message
news:bm9mh3$2ovn$1...@velox.critter.net...

Dave The Dancing Hyena

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Oct 11, 2003, 5:36:26 PM10/11/03
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Preyfar <pre...@furnation.com> shall never vanquished be until great
Birnam wood to high fur.artwork.erotica. hill shall come against him.

>Well, technically in a way, art is free. It's forced on us all on a
>daily basis in the form of marketing, movies, music and television. It's
>all around us, in our face. The art on these boards are free (to look
>at). They all may have hidden messages in them, some of them saying "BUY
>ME!" but for the most part, art doesn't have a cost. You can look at it.

Everything has an (opportunity) cost; the cost of looking at art is
time that could have been spent doing something else.

>It's just that you can't OWN A PHYSICAL COPY without having to pay.
>Digital copies are sort of like memories: they're good, but never quite
>as good as the original.

Well, in the case of hosting artists CD's, they are the original
product that is being sold. Thus it is effectively thievery.

>Technically having a digital copy isn't really owning anything at all,
>because it's not tangible. 1's and 0's can be erased rather easily. This
>isn't to say I support what's being done, but I'm just supporting the
>notion that art is a bit more free than most people think.

Some paintings are just made up of little daubs of paint, so people
who own "pictures" made up from daubs of paint don't really own
anything (except daubs of paint).

>The people who will buy the magazine will still buy it, even if they
>downloaded it. Those that don't care... still don't, and probably
>wouldn't have bought it in the first place.

Respect the artists wishes, that should be the foremost through it
your (and everyone else's) mind.
It is not for you, nor I, to decide the where, what and how of
distribution, it is for the artist themselves.

>This kind of "art trading" has been going on since I first got into the
>fandom over seven years ago. People on yiff.net "traded" magazines and
>art archives, and they still do it now.

"We've always done it this way"
"40,000 dead people can't be wrong"

You commit the fallacy of tradition.
Just because people have always done something, that does not make it
right.

>The only thing I can suggest is that if you truly LIKE an artist,
>support them by buying a print or an original or a CD. Artists EXPECT
>(or should expect, anyway) that when they put something out in digital
>form that it be stolen.

Artists should be able to expect for people to have a matrue attitude.
I.e respect the wishes of the creator.
If the artist doesn't care, fine. But if they don't want people to
distribute it?
Then they should not. Tis only on the sufferance of the artist that
they share their artwork with anyone else. And as creator, their
wishes should be respected.

>It's the way of the world.
>
>Thieving is the second oldest profession.

The Fallacy of Tradition. Again. Just because people have always done
something, that does not make it right or good.

---
Sample:
[1. "And at the gates the trumpets rang."]
[2. "This is my hour. Do you not know death when you see it? ... die now!"]

Mwongozi

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Oct 11, 2003, 6:03:07 PM10/11/03
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Furnation First wrote:
> [Blah]

+----------+
| PLEASE |
| DO NOT |
| FEED THE |
| TROLLS |
+----------+
| |
| |
.\|.||/..

Although I do feel slightly disgruntled that I have never received my
copy of Furnation #3, despite pre-ordering it very early on. Despite
several apologetic e-mails, nothing has been done.

I held off ordering #4 until I received #3, and now they're both out of
stock, I guess I will never read either.

Furnation First

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Oct 11, 2003, 8:48:41 PM10/11/03
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My art is making high speed public distro networks. It is free.
-FurFirst

Find us on irc.codenix.net on channel #furryxdcc

"Rogue Gryphon" <rogueg...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<bm9lrb$2ods$1...@velox.critter.net>...

Nyterious NyteDodger

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Oct 11, 2003, 9:48:31 PM10/11/03
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They are never out of stock. I got all four furnation mags at this past
Conifur. They are print on demand. They need copies, they print copies.

"Mwongozi" <li...@mwongozi.net> wrote in message
news:bm9ums$bj7$1...@velox.critter.net...

Rich Chandler

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Oct 11, 2003, 10:49:26 PM10/11/03
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Mwongozi wrote:
> Although I do feel slightly disgruntled that I have never received my
> copy of Furnation #3, despite pre-ordering it very early on. Despite
> several apologetic e-mails, nothing has been done.
>
> I held off ordering #4 until I received #3, and now they're both out of
> stock, I guess I will never read either.

If you recall, apparently they're available "Print on Demand" so they are not
out of stock.

As for your missing order, if you have proof of the charge, you should take it
up with Furnation.

FuzzWolf

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Oct 11, 2003, 10:56:59 PM10/11/03
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> Although I do feel slightly disgruntled that I have never received my
> copy of Furnation #3, despite pre-ordering it very early on. Despite
> several apologetic e-mails, nothing has been done.
>
> I held off ordering #4 until I received #3, and now they're both out of
> stock, I guess I will never read either.
>

As has already been pointed out they are not, and can never be, out of
stock! They're a print on demand magazine.

I know FN had a massive e-mail problem of some kind so if you still haven't
heard back, I'd suggest dropping them another line.

Fuzzy


Brian O'connell

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Oct 11, 2003, 11:27:47 PM10/11/03
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Your *stolen* art, you mean. Otherwise, you would understand why people
don't like having their creations taken away from them.

PlanetFur

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Oct 11, 2003, 11:57:01 PM10/11/03
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"Furnation First" <furna...@fr.st> wrote in message
news:b4c01ded.03101...@posting.google.com...
> My art is making high speed public distro networks. It is free.
> -FurFirst

Then, Sibe, why not distribute items in the public domain, in
freely-distributable formatted licenses, etc? Plenty of items in
the public domain for you to distribute.

Oh, yes, you do this not only to piss people off, but try to get
people to like you. I keep forgetting. No one feels sympathy
for you, and the only people who "support" you probably would
support any dirty vagrant who decided to pirate things, whether
or not the downloaders wanted it to begin with.

So, good luck on avoiding more jail time, and we won't cry
for you if you get a little action behind bars.


Mwongozi

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Oct 12, 2003, 7:10:22 AM10/12/03
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FuzzWolf wrote:
> I know FN had a massive e-mail problem of some kind so if you still haven't
> heard back, I'd suggest dropping them another line.

I have, several times. For a long time they simply never replied, and
eventually I was informed that my e-mails were never arriving. This was
odd, since I send e-mail to many other people with no problems at all.

In any case, I e-mailed them again a few days ago, and yesterday got a
reply to my previous posting in this thread, which I also replied to.

Lets hope finally something is done about it.


Dale Farmer

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Oct 12, 2003, 9:11:35 AM10/12/03
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Mwongozi wrote:

Your ISP may be on one of the anti-spam black hole lists. Once that
happens, many ISPs will just discard all mail from your domain silently.
Happened to me a few years ago. Massive PITA.

--Dale


Richard de Wylfin

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Oct 12, 2003, 10:02:45 AM10/12/03
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In article <bmahoo$o2l$1...@velox.critter.net>,

"Brian O'connell" <doge...@comcast.net> wrote:

> Your *stolen* art, you mean. Otherwise, you would understand why people
> don't like having their creations taken away from them.

Brian, weren't you defending filesharing (of music, of course) not long
ago?

New alt.possessive.its.has.no.apostrophe products on Cafeshops:
http://www.cafeshops.com/jotandcomma

Brian O'connell

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Oct 12, 2003, 12:30:09 PM10/12/03
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"Richard de Wylfin" <thetal...@mailandnews.com> wrote in message
news:thetalkingfox-F35...@velox.critter.net...

> In article <bmahoo$o2l$1...@velox.critter.net>,
> "Brian O'connell" <doge...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> > Your *stolen* art, you mean. Otherwise, you would understand why people
> > don't like having their creations taken away from them.
>
> Brian, weren't you defending filesharing (of music, of course) not long
> ago?

There's a BIG fucking difference, and you know it. Especially when you're
talking public domain stuff or stuff that's been out of print for decades.


GrauWolf

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Oct 12, 2003, 4:21:37 PM10/12/03
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>
>So, good luck on avoiding more jail time, and we won't cry
>for you if you get a little action behind bars.
>

Hopefuly he gets a nice cellmate named Bubba, or Billy Joe Bob who
will teach him where his place is.

The sick, tired, and hungry wuff.
GreyWolf

Mwongozi

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Oct 12, 2003, 7:00:13 PM10/12/03
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Dale Farmer wrote:
> Your ISP may be on one of the anti-spam black hole lists. Once that
> happens, many ISPs will just discard all mail from your domain silently.
> Happened to me a few years ago. Massive PITA.

I thought of that, so I checked on one of the multi-RBL IP checkers. I'm
not listed by anyone, thankfully! :)

artist

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Oct 12, 2003, 7:32:31 PM10/12/03
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Artist, the good little Microsoft drone heard "Chakky"
<targ...@hotmail.com> say...

> *gets out his do not feed the trolls sign*

*Grabs his full body "I Don't Care" sign*

:)

Cyberwuffy

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Oct 12, 2003, 8:32:10 PM10/12/03
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::shrug:: If you post art on the internet or some other electronic medium,
it's GOING to reach the internet at some point. There's no way to stop it.
As hard as you try, it's futile. The internet is a playground of data.
::sigh:: Although I disagree with furnation shutting down independent art
hosting sites, I really want anything of Sibe to die. so I have mixed
feelings about this whole thing.

~Cyberwuffy

"Furnation First" <furna...@fr.st> wrote in message
news:b4c01ded.03101...@posting.google.com...

Omen Raincloud

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Oct 12, 2003, 11:47:54 PM10/12/03
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Ok I'll just say this right now, as per what has happened in the past, he
wont go to jail, and nothing will be done because the vast majority of furs
wont do a damn thing, so just get pissed about it and blow off some steam.

GrauWolf <dek...@Juno.com> wrote in message
news:asdjovgs8t9n4rfmu...@4ax.com...

Shadow

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Oct 13, 2003, 2:57:10 AM10/13/03
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My ISP kills everything from grid.net and from several other ISP's

Ninereeds

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Oct 13, 2003, 5:40:50 AM10/13/03
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same here, i ordered issue #1 and got an email saying #4 would be included
due to late responce, i still havent recived it


§pectreWolf

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Oct 13, 2003, 8:12:30 PM10/13/03
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So i am not the only one eh?
"Ninereeds" <niner...@NOSPAMhotmail.comma> wrote in message
news:bmeodq$oif$1...@tiger.chameleon.net...

ShadowFang

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Oct 14, 2003, 4:39:03 AM10/14/03
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Jail time? Hah! Hardly. Even though what is being done here is illegal, the
FBI won't even talk to you unless you can prove over $5,000 in losses
because of the filesharing. Even then, good luck hiring a lawyer then. In
the end, it will cost the artist more than it would be to simply deal with
it. Last time I checked, artists have very little or no money to pay a nice
fat lawyer bill. Even if this was brought to court, jail time is very
unlikey.

--ShadowFang

"PlanetFur" <cb...@dragonmagic.net> wrote in message
news:hi4ib.120551$xx4.20...@twister.neo.rr.com...

Brian O'connell

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Oct 14, 2003, 5:43:26 AM10/14/03
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"ShadowFang" <garo...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:bmgcm6$2o8$1...@velox.critter.net...

> Jail time? Hah! Hardly. Even though what is being done here is illegal,
the
> FBI won't even talk to you unless you can prove over $5,000 in losses
> because of the filesharing. Even then, good luck hiring a lawyer then.
In
> the end, it will cost the artist more than it would be to simply deal with
> it. Last time I checked, artists have very little or no money to pay a
nice
> fat lawyer bill. Even if this was brought to court, jail time is very
> unlikey.
>
> --ShadowFang

However, Sibe HAS broken into relatively secured servers, along with
launching DDoS attacks on other private servers (such as fur.com,
Furnation's website, ets). That qualifies as a federal crime under the USA
PATRIOT act.

And then there's the time he travelled interstate to participate in sex with
a minor.

Those two points (and probably a few I'm missing) are worthy of FBI
involvement alone.


Paul Johnson

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Oct 14, 2003, 7:22:57 AM10/14/03
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

In alt.fan.furry Brian O'connell <doge...@comcast.net> wrote:
> And then there's the time he travelled interstate to participate in sex with
> a minor.

Then there's the time he travelled interstate in a car he got by
carjacking a local fur.

- --
.''`. Paul Johnson <ba...@ursine.ca>
: :' :
`. `'` proud Debian admin and user
`- Debian - when you have better things to do than fix a system
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Brian O'connell

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Oct 14, 2003, 10:01:08 AM10/14/03
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"Paul Johnson" <ba...@ursine.ca> wrote in message
news:ht2t51-...@ursine.ca...

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> In alt.fan.furry Brian O'connell <doge...@comcast.net> wrote:
> > And then there's the time he travelled interstate to participate in sex
with
> > a minor.
>
> Then there's the time he travelled interstate in a car he got by
> carjacking a local fur.

Yep. Wonder how much more the authorities are going to put up with, until
they decide whatever his daddy's paying them isn't enough.


Paul Johnson

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Oct 14, 2003, 10:48:12 AM10/14/03
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

In alt.fan.furry Brian O'connell <doge...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> Then there's the time he travelled interstate in a car he got by
>> carjacking a local fur.
>
> Yep. Wonder how much more the authorities are going to put up with, until
> they decide whatever his daddy's paying them isn't enough.

Probably around the time he stops getting caught in Washington State
where the taxpayers don't find it important to fund their police.

- --
.''`. Paul Johnson <ba...@ursine.ca>
: :' :
`. `'` proud Debian admin and user
`- Debian - when you have better things to do than fix a system
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Snake

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Oct 14, 2003, 11:30:16 AM10/14/03
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Paul Johnson <ba...@ursine.ca> wrote in message
news:cuet51-...@ursine.ca...

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> In alt.fan.furry Brian O'connell <doge...@comcast.net> wrote:
> >> Then there's the time he travelled interstate in a car he got by
> >> carjacking a local fur.
> >
> > Yep. Wonder how much more the authorities are going to put up with,
until
> > they decide whatever his daddy's paying them isn't enough.
>
> Probably around the time he stops getting caught in Washington State
> where the taxpayers don't find it important to fund their police.

With respect, I do not know the Sibe story. Are you guys serious about all
this stuff??

And if so, may I be so bold to ask: why, in a supposedly moderated group,
are his posts tolerated and left on the boards? Some of the problem may be
dissipated just by removing his posts; people can't download his stolen
works if they can't find him.


Chris Beilby

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Oct 14, 2003, 11:59:41 AM10/14/03
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> And if so, may I be so bold to ask: why, in a supposedly moderated group,
> are his posts tolerated and left on the boards? Some of the problem may
be
> dissipated just by removing his posts; people can't download his stolen
> works if they can't find him.

Um... Since when is A.F.F moderated?


Snake

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Oct 14, 2003, 12:07:09 PM10/14/03
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Chris Beilby <christop...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:Q3Vib.80604$0Z5.29137@lakeread03...

Sorry. :-( F.A.E. has gotten posts from the admin.


Paul Johnson

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Oct 15, 2003, 12:04:54 AM10/15/03
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

In alt.fan.furry Snake <fluidNOstatesSPAM...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>> Probably around the time he stops getting caught in Washington State
>> where the taxpayers don't find it important to fund their police.
>
> With respect, I do not know the Sibe story. Are you guys serious about all
> this stuff??

Yes.

> And if so, may I be so bold to ask: why, in a supposedly moderated group,
> are his posts tolerated and left on the boards?

This isn't a moderated group. What made you think otherwise?

- --
.''`. Paul Johnson <ba...@ursine.ca>
: :' :
`. `'` proud Debian admin and user
`- Debian - when you have better things to do than fix a system
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Rick Pikul

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Oct 16, 2003, 11:10:48 PM10/16/03
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In article <NaVib.8607$fv4....@nwrdny02.gnilink.net>,
fluidNOstatesSPAM...@mindspring.com says...

Since when is fae moderated?


--
Phoenix

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