Women, safety, lodging & Thamkrabok Monastery
Natasha
to Thamkrabok. I would fly with her and during her 28 days at the
Monastery I would need lodging? The after care program she is
considering is the New Life Foundation that opened 2010 in Thailand.
Any insight on female safety? Any insight on Females at the
Monastery? Any insight would be extremely comforting and Helpful. To
further complicate the issue... mother nature has reared her head, any
word on Flooding.
As many of you know when someone makes the leap to ask for help, time
is ticking...
George Bourassa
with drug and alcohol addiction, no doubt.
When I was there, almost the whole time it seemed very safe to me.
There ARE, however, people who have half lost their mind on drugs,
having serious withdrawals off of drugs that can make them temporarily
out of their minds, and convicted rapists, and sometimes murderers, in
"the hay", where the "patients" are kept. And if you end up in a
situation where you are uncomfortable sleeping in a dorm or sharing
the same close quarter grounds with someone you feel is a safety risk
within the first 7 days, they WILL NOT let you leave. For the first 7
days, you are a prisoner.
When I was there, I met a group of great, upstanding people
(westerners) who had fallen into drugs and alcohol and were looking
for solutions to their addictions, and we had great rapport. Then in
the last 2 days an axe murdered who was clearly mentally off was
admitted and since my problem was not as serious (moderate alcohol
addiction... I already lived in Thailand and went on my holiday sort
of as a detox, introduction to trying to quit. I'm still young and in
good shape and it wasn't a serious problem. I saw it as a learning
experience....), I decided that it was time for me to go. I wasn't
comfortable having to sleep in a room with a person that had murdered
someone with an axe and was mentally unbalanced, and also coming off
of heroine, so he wouldn't be getting much sleep. I talked to
everyone I could and got very serious about needing to leave, and they
would not let me leave until my 7 days were up. I was a prisoner.
Another "inmate" at the time was also young and had been on a tour of
temples learning to meditate, etc., but also kick alcohol, and he
wanted to leave with me, but they also would not let him.
Take this with a grain of salt. I just had bad luck that there was a
person who I was not comfortable with who I did not feel safe around.
Ironically, the "monks" (a lot of them are ex-triad/mafia drug dealers
who went straight at thomkrabok and decided to stay), told me that it
was all in my mind, and the problem was not with the axe murderer, but
with me. Now, I am ALL for forgiving the guy. I understand the
principal. But I think it should be up to me as to whether I risk my
safety by giving him access to me while he is sleep deprived and
coming off heroin and I'm sleeping. (He had also, right when I met
him, told a story about beating on a woman just the week before
because she "provoked him", so he had been violent very recently.)
Thomkrabok is the place of last resort for a lot of people, and a lot
of people have been saved there and lead great, happy lives. I am NOT
knocking Thomkrabok. I am just giving an honest, full picture of the
situation. Most of the people running the area where the detoxing
"inmates" stay are covered with mafia tattoos, and a good deal of the
foreign "monks" have very rough pasts. THEY ABSOLUTELY DESERVE A
SECOND CHANCE AND I'M SURE MANY LIVE VERY HARMONIOUS AND PRODUCTIVE
LIVES NOW. (To all those Thomkrabok supporters that might want to
reply to this post negatively...) but still, it is what it is.
If your daughter has sunk low and had a past of dealing with a really
rough crowd and has been through some awful experiences and done some
awful things while addicted, it's probably a great place, because the
people who can help her have had similar experiences and can relate.
If you are there, and she really ends up in a situation where she
feels for her safety, you might be able to cause enough of a rucus
with the US Embassy to get her out. (remember, that's only the first
7 days you're a prisoner. And you have to sign the contract for that
on your way in.)
Don't let this deter you. Just let it get you ready for what's ahead.
The bottom line is, if she's totally ruining her life on drugs, the
risks of being in Thomkrabok for a month are FAR less than just
existing in that world back in the US, and the outcome could save her
life. All things considered, I TOTALLY recommend her going to
thomkrabok if her addiction is serious, because it's a great detox
experience. And she doesn't have to buy into the religious stuff
either. I didn't. I left with a bad taste in my mouth because they
wouldn't let me leave when I felt I needed to.... (they did compromise
and let me sleep in a separate room that the murderer had absolutely
no access to...), so I went right back to drinking for a few weeks,
but since then I just manned up and used my own willpower and I've
stopped on my own. The lessons they teach about how to live... the
practical lessons, are great. The more etherial parts are not
necessary to buy into to get the productive experience you need to
quit.
Also, when they line up for the herbal tea, they have everyone drink
it in succession out of the same cup. Anything like herpes or other
active viruses that can be passed on through touching the mouth are
ripe to be spread with that system, so I'd send her with her own
plastic cup. I'm sure they won't mind. of course, they'll rely on
Buddha to stop them from spreading disease, but I still have to stick
with western science on that one. =-)
> --
> The OFFICIAL Thamkrabok Monastery website is http://www.thamkrabok-monastery.org
> INDEPENDENT information can be found at http://www.thamkrabok.net
> To post to this group, send email to Friends-of-Tham...@googlegroups.com
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to Friends-of-Thamkrabok...@googlegroups.com
> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Friends-of-Thamkrabok-Monastery
>
--
Mobile 18606505039
rebecca elbe
> Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 14:21:52 +0800
> Subject: Re: [FOTM:3134] Women, safety, lodging & Thamkrabok Monastery
> From: casabo...@gmail.com
> To: friends-of-tham...@googlegroups.com
Vince Cullen
I think George has many interesting and colourful points but perhaps he misunderstood what Thamkrabok is i.e. , the last resort for many desperate people. (I wonder if George has ever come across the story of Angulimala?)
Thamkrabok has treated more than 110,000 individuals over the last 50 years. The conditions have much improved over the years but they are still very basic even by Thai standards.
Thamkrabok is what it is.
It is NOT the Betty Ford clinic.
Anyone looking for a miracle cure is looking in the wrong place.
No one is forced to go to Thamkrabok - you must go of your own free will. A condition of admittance is that you complete at least 7-days treatment during which time you agree to be confined to the Hey (the treatment compound). This agreement is your first Sajja, your first promise to change - to see things through.
If you seek treatment at Thamkrabok, you are committing to changing yourself, your view of your self; and your view of the world. Anyone expecting to change their view of themselves and the world in 7 or less days in treatment may well be wasting their time and everybody else's efforts.
I share a lot of values with Wat Thamkrabok including the power of Sajja and the truth of Karma. This is powerful stuff and it is enough to get people on the road to recovery (although the hard work really starts when you get home).
The gift of Sajja is beyond giving.
The taste of Sajja is beyond sweetness;
The joy of Sajja is beyond joy.
The end of addiction is the end of sorrow.
Sajja is not just a sacred vow but it is a commitment to truth, a commitment to change. From a Buddhist perspective 'Truth' is that which does not deceive (either ourselves or others).
Karma is driven by 'intentionality' so that if your thoughts, words or deeds are knowingly intended to deceive then this is not skilful, wise or wholesome; and in a sense it is not Sajja. We are all the inheritors of the results of our Karma whether those results are good or bad, positive or negative; wholesome or unwholesome. The truth of Karma is that you don't get away with anything :-)
2. A (sometimes) frightening, difficult, but exhilarating journey, helped along by unexpected hospitality from strangers and help from mystical allies. So you face your vulnerability and break out of many youthful fears and neuroses.
3. Finally, a return home: the traveller apparently the same person, but forever changed.
There is life after drugs and alcohol; it is a very good life.
Best wishes and Metta to all.
Vince
(h) 01635-552665
(m) 07909-545380
www.5th-precept.org
www.thamkrabok.net
www.TARA-detox.org
_________________________________
422
A great being is fearless like a bull,
noble, strong, wise, diligent,
sees through delusions,
is clear, attentive and awake.
__________________________________
A DHAMMAPADA for CONTEMPLATION
George Bourassa
Thanks for understanding my viewpoint vince.
To the lady who said not to listen, if you read my whole email I highly recommend going. I'm just giving my story to paint a complete picture. It is not the betty ford clinic, nor should it be. Overall it was a very positive experience except for the end.
As for the monks and nuns "keeping you safe", they don't stay in the dorm overnight. It's only as safe as the people you are locked in with, which I would guess is safe enough 99% of the time. Like I said, probably more safe than the people you end up passed out around at drug flop houses back in the US.
The best of luck to you. I hope your daughter quits and stays clean.
On 07/11/2011 7:42 PM, "rebecca elbe" <bec...@msn.com> wrote:
Dont listen to this guy! My son went in april 2011 and said he felt safe the whole time. The monks and nun will look after your daughter. Going to the monastery was the best thing my could have done for himself. Good luck to you. Rebecca.
> Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 14:21:52 +0800
> Subject: Re: [FOTM:3134] Women, safety, lodging & Thamkrabok Monastery
> From: casabo...@gmail.com
> To: friends-of-tham...@googlegroups.com
>
> Thomkrabok can and has been an extremely useful place to help people
> with drug and alcohol a...
--
The OFFICIAL Thamkrabok Monastery website is http://www.thamkrabok-monastery.org
INDEPENDENT in...
George Bourassa
By the way, vince, you are spot on. I did misunderstand what it was until a couple days in, and that is my fault. You do very important work and the world is VERY lucky to have you. Keep it up.
Also, since we're talking, I've tried to get removed from this mailing list a couple times to no avail. I've emailed the address listed but it doesn't work. Any thoughts?
> Thomkrabok can and...
Vince Cullen
so sorrow drops from those
who are free of toxic craving.
(336 Dhammapada)
Best wishes and Metta to all,
Vince
(h) 01635-552665
(m) 07909-545380
www.5th-precept.org
www.thamkrabok.net
www.TARA-detox.org
_________________________________
To understand all dimensions
of past existence,
to see accurately into all realms,
to reach the end of rebirths,
to know with insight
that which must be known,
to free the heart from ignorance –
this is the essence of great being.
--
Hazel Macmillan
Dear Vince
I too would like to be removed from the listings. I only made an enquiry a year or so ago and have ever since received yr e-mails despite trying numerous ways to remove them.
Wishing you much strength in all you do
Hazel
Vince Cullen
My apologies for any trouble you have had in trying to unsubscribe from this group.
In theory (and it seems to be only in theory!) the process is simply: "To unsubscribe from this group, send email to Friends-of-Thamkrabok...@googlegroups.com" but this doesn't seem to work.
Consider yourselves both unsubscribed :-)
Best wishes and Metta,
Vince
(h) 01635-552665
(m) 07909-545380
www.5th-precept.org
www.thamkrabok.net
www.TARA-detox.org
_________________________________
423
To understand all dimensions
of past existence,
to see accurately into all realms,
to reach the end of rebirths,
to know with insight
that which must be known,
to free the heart from ignorance –
this is the essence of great being.
__________________________________
A DHAMMAPADA for CONTEMPLATION
Natasha
nasty business, I hear your comparison and it's true. My hope was not
to hear you are locked up in a dark room with an ax murder. I will
trust that your experience is rare? Or maybe I'm being naive? I
believe people go to the Monastery freely and with intention. At this
point George, being on drugs would be a good comparison to an ax
murderer, completely out of control, loose cannon and scary. Coming
off drugs, bares your sole to the world... it takes extreme courage. I
am grateful that humanity shows us all sides of life.
Stay Well,
Natasha
On Nov 7, 5:24 am, George Bourassa <casaboura...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Thanks for understanding my viewpoint vince.
>
> To the lady who said not to listen, if you read my whole email I highly
> recommend going. I'm just giving my story to paint a complete picture. It
> is not the betty ford clinic, nor should it be. Overall it was a very
> positive experience except for the end.
>
> As for the monks and nuns "keeping you safe", they don't stay in the dorm
> overnight. It's only as safe as the people you are locked in with, which I
> would guess is safe enough 99% of the time. Like I said, probably more
> safe than the people you end up passed out around at drug flop houses back
> in the US.
>
> The best of luck to you. I hope your daughter quits and stays clean.
>
>
> Dont listen to this guy! My son went in april 2011 and said he felt safe
> the whole time. The monks and nun will look after your daughter. Going to
> the monastery was the best thing my could have done for himself. Good luck
> to you. Rebecca.
>
> > Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 14:21:52 +0800
> > Subject: Re: [FOTM:3134] Women, safety, lodging & Thamkrabok Monastery
Audrey Delaney
To any women travelling to Thamkrabok,
Hi guys,
I travelled to Thamkrabok from Ireland alone over three years ago. Firstly doing it on my own added strength and commitment. Secondly I put security in place. I arranged for the taxi from the Monastery to pick me up at arrivals and drop me into the monastery itself. The cost of this was very reasonable, It think for the couple of hours journey, around 60 euro. The same can be arranged on checkout. A taxi from your detox to departures. This should be the only way as it is not a time for holidaying and sight seeing. This totally eliminates any options of walking in Thailand alone.
Regarding Thamkrabok itself. It was the safest place I ever stayed in as a female. You are protected and precautions put in place. Apart from the fact that you are now in your right mind without drugs and can make rational decisions for yourself as opposed to being in your own environment and your mind under the influenced would not be focused on self protection. In a drugged state your are more vulnerable. I have dealt with ladies over the past few years travelling from different counties to Thamkrabok and all have gone and returned with nothing other than an amazing self discovering experience. Your security in the monastery is something you don’t think about as it is an automatic feeling of a very safe and loving environment. Your companions who are also doing a detox have continuously kept up a comradeship and support, that seems to happen ongoing. It is an extremely peaceful place and everyone has everyone’s best interests at heart. No messing is tolerated. I have not heard one complaint from the any of the ladies I have dealt with. The biggest fear is facing oneself and a sober brain. But any specific questions I would only be to happy to answer.
Love and best wishes to the women who are travelling, it will be the most positive experience of your life and certainly the best investment.
Kindness and compassion on a tough but life changing journey,
Audrey x
From: friends-of-tham...@googlegroups.com
[mailto:friends-of-tham...@googlegroups.com]
On Behalf Of Angie Foley
Sent: 07 November 2011 11:31
To: friends-of-tham...@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [FOTM:3135] Women,
safety, lodging & Thamkrabok Monastery
Hi Natasha
I am considering going out there myself but have been worried going
alone. When are you thinking of going?
> Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2011 14:47:13
-0800
> Subject: [FOTM:3133] Women, safety, lodging & Thamkrabok Monastery
> From: nata...@aol.com
> To: friends-of-tham...@googlegroups.com
> --
> The OFFICIAL Thamkrabok Monastery website is
http://www.thamkrabok-monastery.org
> INDEPENDENT information can be found at http://www.thamkrabok.net
> To post to this group, send email to Friends-of-Tham...@googlegroups.com
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
Friends-of-Thamkrabok...@googlegroups.com
> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Friends-of-Thamkrabok-Monastery
INDEPENDENT information can be found at http://www.thamkrabok.net
jonlie....@gmail.com
powered by Sinyal Kuat INDOSAT
Ben
From what I understand, people are segregated in their sleeping area
based on sex anyways, isn't that correct, Vince? Would seem to make
sense in the Buddhist setting. If that's the case, it should put your
mind at ease.
Saraburi, just to the north of Bangkok, is probably affected by the
floods, if not directly right now under water (I think it's higher
ground than Ayuttaya, which is inundated under about 2 meters and has
been for a while) then it could very well be facing shortages. I live
8 hours from Bangkok, but our village is now filling up more every day
with "refugees" who have been forced out of the city due to no food or
potable water. The situation there is not yet at a point of getting
any better and the areas north of the capital are still under water,
which is spreading. The end result is that the shortages are now
affecting the rest of the country as that population starts to spread
out and overwhelm the supply infrastructure, which is already under
strain from transportation problems due to roads being flooded out.
I'd recommend getting into direct contact with the temple and seeing
how they are faring when it comes to supplies. Even if they are ok at
the Wat for the moment, this crisis isn't over, and the indirect
consequences of the flooding in that massively populated capital are
now being felt throughout the country. It might not be a bad idea to
wait a few months. That's what the folks who have returned home here
are going to do. Today the ATM's were out of money and our weekly
markets have been overrun.
Anyways, it might actually just add to the excitement of your
adventure! Flooding aside, don't overstress about safety issues in
Thailand in general. It's really a very safe country to travel in and
the people are very accommodating.
Regards,
Ben
Natasha
Thank you for your response. She is yearning for "The journey of The
Hero" She understands the conditions of Thamkrabok and is ok with all
of it. Im not saying she isn't worried which is why I tried to start a
thread for women who have gone. George has many points that would
concern either gender, its unfortunate his is the first post. However
we can't live in those moments of fear. Knowing someone you love has
stop breathing , again and again is real enough.
Back to the topic of women... and Thamkrabok, Any insight or
suggestions while taking this courageous journey? Any lodging
suggestions in the area? After Care program experience?
Humbly,
Natasha
On Nov 7, 5:12 am, Vince Cullen <vince.cul...@5th-precept.org> wrote:
> Hi Natasha,
>
> I think George has many interesting and colourful points but perhaps he
> misunderstood what Thamkrabok is i.e. , the last resort for many desperate
> people. (I wonder if George has ever come across the story of
> ?)
> Thamkrabok has treated more than 110,000 individuals over the last 50
> years. The conditions have much improved over the years but they are still
> very basic even by Thai standards.
>
> Thamkrabok is what it is.
>
> It is NOT the Betty Ford clinic.
>
> Anyone looking for a miracle cure is looking in the wrong place.
>
> No one is forced to go to Thamkrabok - you must go of your own free will.
> A condition of admittance is that you complete at least 7-days treatment
> during which time you agree to be confined to the Hey (the treatment
> compound). This agreement is your first Sajja, your first promise to change
> - to see things through.
>
> If you seek treatment at Thamkrabok, you are committing to changing
> yourself, your view of your self; and your view of the world. Anyone
> expecting to change their view of themselves and the world in 7 or less
> days in treatment may well be wasting their time and everybody else's
> efforts.
>
> I share a lot of values with Wat
> hard work really starts when you get home*).
>
> *The gift of Sajja is beyond giving.
> The joy of Sajja is beyond joy.
> *(354 Dhammapada - alternative version)*
> Sajja is not just a sacred vow but it is a commitment to truth, a
> commitment to change. From a Buddhist perspective 'Truth' is that which
> does not deceive (either ourselves or others).
>
> Karma is driven by 'intentionality' so that if your thoughts, words or
> deeds are knowingly intended to deceive then this is not skilful, wise or
> wholesome; and in a sense it is not Sajja. We are all the inheritors of the
> results of our Karma whether those results are good or bad, positive or
> negative; wholesome or unwholesome. The truth of Karma is that you don't
> get away with anything :-)
>
> The treatment at Thamkrabok has been likened to the 'Journey of the Hero';
> this 'Journey' has three steps -
>
> 1. A Separation from home and family, and all that is familiar.
> 2. A (sometimes) frightening, difficult, but exhilarating journey,
> helped along by unexpected hospitality from strangers and help from
> mystical allies. So you face your vulnerability and break out of many
> youthful fears and neuroses.
> 3. Finally, a return home: the traveller apparently the same person, but
> forever changed.
>
> There is life after drugs and alcohol; it is a very good life.
>
> Best wishes and
>
> Vince <http://www.5th-precept.org/html/interview.html>
>
> (h) 01635-552665
> (m) 07909-545380
>
> www.5th-precept.orgwww.thamkrabok.netwww.TARA-detox.org<http://www.tara-detox.org/>
> _________________________________
> 422
> *A great being is fearless like a bull,
> sees through delusions,
> __________________________________
> A DHAMMAPADA for
> CONTEMPLATION<http://aruno.org//index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=241&Itemi...>
> <http://aruno.org//index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=241&Itemi...>
> > > We live in Colorado and our 30 year old daughter is considering going
> > > to Thamkrabok. I would fly with her and during her 28 days at the
> > > Monastery I would need lodging? The after care program she is
> > > considering is the New Life Foundation that opened 2010 in Thailand.
> > > Any insight on female safety? Any insight on Females at the
> > > Monastery? Any insight would be extremely comforting and Helpful. To
> > > further complicate the issue... mother nature has reared her head, any
> > > word on Flooding.
>
> > > As many of you know when someone makes the leap to ask for help, time
> > > is ticking..
> > > --
> > > The OFFICIAL Thamkrabok Monastery website is
> >http://www.thamkrabok-monastery.org
> > Friends-of-Tham...@googlegroups.com
> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>
>
> read more »
Natasha
Mother nature plays a role in our departure...Flooding, To further
complicate the issue she hurt her mouth during her last "episode"
Until the dentist gives the go ahead, she is in a holding pattern.
November 28th would be our target date. Keep us updated on your
decision :)
All the best,
Natasha
On Nov 7, 4:31 am, Angie Foley <angelfo...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
> Hi Natasha
> I am considering going out there myself but have been worried going alone. When are you thinking of going?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2011 14:47:13 -0800
> > From: natah...@aol.com
> > To: friends-of-tham...@googlegroups.com
> > The OFFICIAL Thamkrabok Monastery website ishttp://www.thamkrabok-monastery.org
> > To post to this group, send email to Friends-of-Tham...@googlegroups.com
Natasha
On Nov 7, 4:42 am, rebecca elbe <becc...@msn.com> wrote:
> Dont listen to this guy! My son went in april 2011 and said he felt safe the whole time. The monks and nun will look after your daughter. Going to the monastery was the best thing my could have done for himself. Good luck to you. Rebecca.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 14:21:52 +0800
> > Subject: Re: [FOTM:3134] Women, safety, lodging & Thamkrabok Monastery
> > > We live in Colorado and our 30 year old daughter is considering going
> > > to Thamkrabok. I would fly with her and during her 28 days at the
> > > Monastery I would need lodging? The after care program she is
> > > considering is the New Life Foundation that opened 2010 in Thailand.
> > > Any insight on female safety? Any insight on Females at the
> > > Monastery? Any insight would be extremely comforting and Helpful. To
> > > further complicate the issue... mother nature has reared her head, any
> > > word on Flooding.
>
> > > As many of you know when someone makes the leap to ask for help, time
> > > is ticking..
> > > --
> > > INDEPENDENT information can be found athttp://www.thamkrabok.net
> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to Friends-of-Thamkrabok...@googlegroups.com
>
> > --
> > Mobile 18606505039
>
> > --
> > The OFFICIAL Thamkrabok Monastery website ishttp://www.thamkrabok-monastery.org
> > INDEPENDENT information can be found athttp://www.thamkrabok.net
Audrey Delaney
There are a few hotels in surrounding areas to Thamkrabok, depending on your
needs. You know your daughter and only you would know if she needs
companionship on her journey. It can be a great comfort. Here is a website
of a guy called Paolo http://www.miswaki.com. He is very familiar with
Thamkrabok, as he volunteers there. Since I was there new hotels have been
built closer to the Monastery. Paolo is a travel agent, knows what your
about to encounter and speaks English. I hope this is of help. Your
daughter is so lucky to have such an understanding mother. Thamkrabok is no
luxury but believe me that adds to the experience and appreciation. I found
that its mths after you come back that you still discover things that the
Monastery has given you. I do not know what country you are from but
regardless Paolo can certainly give you help and advise. It can be good on
the travel aspect to have someone to get you there and back home. It is
just important for them to go through their actual stay inside the detox and
recovery period allowed on their own without distractions. Her thoughts and
fears are lonely and she will spend alone time after her treatment, so it is
good she gets to find what outlook to take her through will work for her.
I congratulate and admire you so much for not giving up or being bitter. It
sounds just like pure love.
It will be very tough for her. Please believe me when I say inside she will
be all emotions, pain, anger, uplifted, down, peaceful, wanting to leave,
fighting to stick it out. Her safety though will be one that I have yet to
hear was an issue with any woman. I have a small information pack that I
give to people from Ireland going to Thamkrabok, what to bring etc. I can
include stuff for females to take note of. Just let me know if you need it
and I will email it to you with pleasure.
All my compassion and I can only imagine what you yourself are going through
as its your child.
Audrey
-----Original Message-----
From: friends-of-tham...@googlegroups.com
[mailto:friends-of-tham...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of
INDEPENDENT information can be found at http://www.thamkrabok.net