MHL Fine update

[Bruce dreaming]

Gday all,

Just an update but please keep this internal.

2016 Jan

I was hunted down cycling minus a helmet on the Yarra river shared path but they followed until they also got me for a red light fine. So 2 fines in one go. On a very quiet and peaceful Sunday morning ride.

2016 Sep

Summary Offence at the Magistrate Court.

Should by now have been read and I will need to prepare taking this case to court.

The red light fine is my point of first interest. It was only the service road into a dead end car park on the Richmond end of MRS – AAMI rugby stadium.

I took many pictures on Olympic Blvd. During arvo peak hours mid-week school holidays in front of MRS - AAMI a few hundred metres from Punt Rd.

At every traffic cycle initiated by a pedestrian, every motorist, cyclist and pedestrian ignored the traffic lights. Motorists because they could not be asked to not stop on the pedestrian crossing, pedestrians and cyclists because the default light is a red man when the vehicles face a green light.

Just to explain the normal light is green for all vehicles on Olympic Blvd. The normal light on the foot/bike path is a red man and bike, one has to stop press the button and wait for a green, this is while the motorist faces a green light. So 100% of cyclists and pedestrians don’t bother and continue walking/cycling.

In peak hour motorist have a speed of around 3kph in all 4 lanes, 2 each way.

Peds/cyclist push the crossing button and get a green man/bike every say 2 min, but of course 2-8 cars or even semi-trailers are illegally blocking the crossing and in the intersection.

All up 100% ignore the traffic signals.

Just maybe Vicroads should ask themselves if they are the problem!

Of course on this occasion the bike patrol pinged only a cyclist for trying to press the ped crossing button.

This entire area is part of the PBN on the road and on the shared paths on all sides of this intersection.

I intend to call Vicroads to explain how a cyclist or even a pedestrian is meant to legally use this intersection, noting it is a very low priority dead end service road to a private car park.

As I have never run a court case I am asking how do I subpoena Vicroads to my case, the object is to get off all fines. But also consume as much court time as possible wasting Vicroads and both of the coppers time.

It is now 9 months that they have had zero income from fining me!

Any thoughts very welcome.

 

Regards

Bruce

 

[ian redfern]

Good going Bruce! I'd like to see VicRoads limited resources stretched as far as legalities go.  Reminds me of a recent case where a lady was taken to court over a myki fine - the case was dismissed and it cost the PTV something like $100,000 plus in legal bills...

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[Bruce dreaming]

Legal Case completed, it’s over.

After one year since the cops hunted me down and made me the solo victim.

Firstly I have to say I am annoyed with myself for capitulating.

In my defence I can say, the system is designed to grind you down wasting as many days as possible and doing everything to avoid a contest i.e. an actual court case where you challenge the cops.

I came in to the Magistrate court for the third official day plus another 3 just doing a reckie to find out how it is supposed to work plus another 3 different attempts at free legal advice.

It is fair to say this has wasted lots of my time luckily it has cost me very few days off work.

So I capitulated after I was blackmailed or if that is too strong a word, coerced into doing a deal with the prosecutor.

As I had what I thought was a very good defence the prosecutor offered me a

Section 76. Unconditional dismissal

 A court, on being satisfied that a person is guilty of an offence, may (without recording a conviction) dismiss the charge.

 

This was mentioned by WMD Lawyers but discounted as not a possibility.

So to get this offer was a shock.

It works like this, you plead guilty to the charge and the prosecutor will state that they have NO OBJECTIONS. Then you are found guilty of the charge, you plead your case with the magistrate and if he agrees.  You’re guilty and it is dismissed.

This is a fantastic get out of jail for the prosecutors, the magistrate and the legal system.

It means in this case: The law is an ass but it is your fault not the legal system.

I have always said: The legal system only works for the rich. I now have one factual case, mine to confirm this.

If I had unlimited money I would of course had taken this to a contest, if I didn’t win, do what the rich do and appeal until I win.

 

So suddenly I am in the court and my name is called, I originally planned to plead not guilty to the red light fine and guilty to the MHL fine. This I expected would mean a plea for only the MHL and the red light fine adjourned to around 6 weeks later.

No doubt I was nervous so I missed some opportunities to speak up when I should have.

I pleaded guilty to both charges and sat down.

The prosecutor read out the fining cop’s statement of facts. Then sat down and remained silent.

They were mainly true with some exaggerations to imply I did more dangerous things.

So I stated exactly that when asked but missed several points.

Then it was my turn for the plea.

Whilst nervous I strongly asserted that: I am a risk avoiding safety seeking cyclist, and that my slow low risk style of cycling I avoid motorist wherever possible.

I explained in some detail exactly the failing of the intersection that I was given a red light at stating the entire area was declared part of the PBN and 16 years after this the MRS Soccer stadium was opened so Vicroads had 16 years to get this this intersection right and it is a total failure. I then pointed out the only way possible to get a green cycle crossing symbol is to press this button and that never does a motor car trigger a green cycle/pedestrian crossing light but to make it even more dangerous the only time you are allowed to cross Olympic Blvd, motorists are also given a green light this is incredibly dangerous for pedestrians/cyclist. This intersection is a complete failure for pedestrians/cyclist that it is meant to be designed for.

I went on for some time.

I asked if the magistrate needed to see some of my pictures and diagrams of this intersection the answer was no, you have explained it very clearly.

I missed my chance to go into some extra detail re the failing of MHL but lots of it was incorporated in explaining the red light intersection.

Perhaps he was thinking of lunch or an early finish.

The magistrate did not give me another chance to say anything and went straight into his decision.

Finding me guilty of both offences and then dismissed both of them immediately.

Sadly I was issued a 12 month bond re of all things, the red light fine.

And then as if to seem they did something I got a court bill: Costs $100

Nothing I got indicates any penalty for the MHL but as they were both combined together it cannot be seperated.

 

So as I stated the law is an ass.

The intersection design is a 100% Vicroads failure, the intersection operation is a 100% Vicroads failure, the VicPol hunted me down cycling on the Yarra River shared-path, so not a safety issue, the VicPol followed me for 2 minutes due to MHL and collected a bonus red light fine, the court system is designed to waste your time and only works if you are rich, the prosecutors agreed that the charges are not fair but refuse to drop them. The prosecutors coerce you to not contest the police and force you to give in to the-system, the magistrate is the final part of a legal and systemic failure.

Pissed off yes.

After one year of my avoiding cycling I am ready again to get back on to my very safe helmet free bicycle.

My suggestions to others is to do everything possible to keep away from cops they are not your friends.

If you do end up with a trivial MHL fine, I am sorry, seek your own counsel do not talk to people like me as my case knowledge is in total one case. I took lots of advice but you are and remain on your own.

Good luck my friends this it seems, is a long but a worthy battle.

 

Some final thoughts:

I have now spent a total of a few hours in Court 6 Level 3 of the Melbourne Magistrates court.

This court is it seems all road related issues. Seeing several different magistrates and at least one was a woman, I spotted a strong theme amongst them.

They stated things along the line of:

“An errant motorist in charge of a motor vehicle becomes a deadly weapon”

I heard this message several times stated in different ways.

Remember these magistrates are intelligent people. It is obvious to them that pedestrians and cyclists do not kill people but motorist do.

This is very much in our favour and something I deliberately worked with.

To me this appears we are in fact. “Friends of the road system, we are not the problem, we are the solution” and comparing us to people who have in fact committed serious injuries to other people is plain stupid.

Sadly despite the road laws and its enforcement having huge problems, no one in the legal system seems interested to remedy these problems.

Regards

Bruce

 

Any thoughts, please?

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[Nicholas Dow]

Bruce I think that's a good outcome. Although it does take up your time, you also dragged the policeman into court and the result isn't very satisfying for him. However I don't understand how you get a dismissed and a bond at the same time. But then I'm not a lawyer. Bond is an issue, I wonder if it only applies to crossing a red light or to any traffic offence?  Maybe a conviction is something the police can know about but a bond is between you and the court only.

I've had two proven and dismissed results from helmet tickets, prior to getting my Vicroads exemption.

I'd vote for the Freestyle Cyclists court fund to pay the court fee of $100.  Bruce if you have a notice to pay, send a scan of that to me and we can pay the court directly - this is preferred.

[Bruce dreaming]

Thanks Nik,

No sadly the fining cops do not come unless it is taken to a contest.

The only people that come are the prosecutors they have close to zero knowledge about each case only what the fining copper wrote, these cops seem to live inside the magistrate court and even some prosecutors have told me things that are not true.

I suspect the fining cop will find out directly that i only got a $100 fine but be very excited that I am on a it is called "Undertaking with conditions for Enter Intersection Red Traffic Light".

I also forgot to add that this case was heard originally in my absence so it you do not turn up I know what happens I was "found guilty with a $600 fine without conviction"

Bruce

[Bruce dreaming]

"I'd vote for the Freestyle Cyclists court fund to pay the court fee of $100.  Bruce if you have a notice to pay, send a scan of that to me and we can pay the court directly - this is preferred."

Thanks but I paid it on the day so I can move on.

Bruce




On Saturday, 14 January 2017 11:20:06 UTC+11, Nicholas Dow wrote:

[Kathy Francis]

Hi Bruce,

I would say that overall this is a good result. I'm sorry you have had to spend so long on it and it has given you so much concern. However it is good that the original penalties were 'dismissed without conviction' and the $100 is a lot less than the two fines would have been. I would have supported our Court fund paying the costs as well. We can still re-imburse you if you want - we just pay into your bank account. We have done this for others.

It sounds like the whole thing is a bit of theatre and that everyone knows that offences like this are a crock. I agree that the justice system is avoiding dealing with the underlying injustice of the original fine by putting this farce in place. All the more reason to continue to campaign for the end of the law. And we should all remember that, although it is a long tedious process, the more we take our fines to Court, the less inclined the Police will be to go to the trouble of booking us. I've now come to accept that a period of non enforcement will precede the repeal of the law. This has commenced already in Western Australia and some beach areas.

So I think you are to be congratulated on a win and your experience is useful to the next person who considers taking their fines to Court.

Kathy

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[Alan Todd]

Sounds like a fairly good result Bruce - congratulations.  I’m not too clear on how the bond could be for one offence only.  Is there some paperwork that went with the decision?  Twelve months also sounds a bit long for such a trivial matter.  I’m not sure what constitutes a breach of “good behaviour” - not an area of law I’ve managed to make much sense of with internet searches.  Are you joining our short ride on Sunday 22nd January?  I’d love to debrief on your experience if you are.

Thanks for taking up the fight

Alan

[Bruce dreaming]

Gday Freestylers again,

I have two pieces of paper from the court, no idea if I will have something in the mail one day.

 

One page is a payment notice. It has under the column FINE(S) the amount of $100

Under the column Due Date it has 11/2/2017 but it is opposite the COSTS column.

So nothing mentions what the fine is for.

 

Page Two is

"Undertaking with conditions for Enter Intersection Red Traffic Light".

It has no mention of anything to do with MHL or any costs to be paid. I do not have to do the drink-driving education program.

 

So it is fair to assume these are generic forms.

Yes and I also thought and tried to say at the time that 12 months is outrageous for a failure of the system Vicroads and not me. But magistrates making a decision will not let you speak, so you need to state this in advance, rather difficult if you do not know what is coming.

 

Yes and if anyone has a clue about what constitutes a breach of the "Undertaking with conditions”

Bruce

Kathy

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[Bruce dreaming]

Kathy and Nick,

I am happy to pay the fine myself, but if it looks good for the records to say Freestyle have paid another fine.
So we can run a story another cyclist went to court and we paid his $100 fine story.
I am happy for that to occur.

Bruce

Kathy

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[Nicholas Dow]

OK we can consider that an extra donation of $100 to the fund by you, without the % that gofundme takes :)

We are getting more enquiries about the fund and paid our first non-Sue costs recently (NSW) and another enquiry for NSW is pending. I'll write these up on our home page soon, to encourage more people to take cases to court. 

[Bruce dreaming]

Yes treat this $100 as my donation.

But please write it up that you have paid my fine. I will tell everyone my story and that the fine was paid our fund.

Bruce

[Kathy Francis]

Nik, I'm glad the Court cases are being written up for the home page. I remember the recipient of the last NSW Court case was going to write up his experience for us but must have overlooked it. It is good publicity.

Kathy

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[Bruce dreaming]

I will write something else up on this, we need to help people with the legal bullshit, to me the fine is a trivial amount but the time and unknown legal system is the biggest problem.

I am part of the media i know any publicity is good publicity.

The more noise we make the more we get heard.

Bruce

[Bruce dreaming]

we need to help people with the legal bullshit, to me the fine is a trivial amount but the time and unknown legal system is the biggest problem.

 

What to do if you have a MHL fine. Fail to wear a bicycle helmet fine.

We cannot give legal advice but we can make some suggestions.

Unless you unfortunately were given more than one fine along with the MHL fine, then it is either you did or you did not have a helmet on. This is the reason why the police love fining cyclists, it has no shades of grey.

This means at first you have two choices pay the outrageous fine before the due date or and we think the wiser choice is elect to take it to court.

This means you turn up at the magistrate court, plead guilty and then tell the magistrate why the helmet law is terrible for cycling safety. It’s called a “plea”

Our experience to date is unless you have a very nasty or have upset the magistrate you will get the $197 fine reduced. Just recently we had a Freestyle member contest a MHL plus a red light fine combined and he got it reduced from $600 to just $100 plus a good behaviour bond.

In Melbourne most of the road related fines are heard at the Melbourne Magistrates Court William St in Court 6 on level 3.

We suggest going in early as you will soon discover that a cycling helmet fine is the most trivial matter that can be listed compared to drunk drivers and motorists that have actually injured or killed other people.

After seeing several different magistrates and at least one was a woman, I spotted a strong theme amongst them all.

They stated things along the line of:

“An errant motorist in charge of a motor vehicle becomes a deadly weapon”

I heard this message several times stated in different ways.

Remember the magistrates are intelligent people. It is obvious to them that pedestrians and cyclists do not kill people but motorist do.

This is very much in our favour and something we can work with.

To us it appears we are in fact.

“Friends of the road system, we are not the problem, we are the solution” and comparing us to motorists who have committed serious injuries to other people is plain stupid.

Remember we have a fund to pay your MHL fine if you do take it to court.

If you would like one of us to show you how it goes on your court day all you need do is ask us. Most of us have only had the one helmet fine so we do not claim to know the system backwards, we can at least guide you on the day.

On the question of having a solicitor or lawyer help you out unless it is complex or not just a helmet fine the legal costs will be far more than any fine you are likely to receive.

You can get free advice from Fitzroy Legal Service but for more complex cases we have had good advice from WMD Lawyers but as an example they quote around $300 ph and offered $1,000 to run a more complex case.

 

 

WMD Lawyers

Suite 8, 233 Cardigan St, Carlton

03 9349 1288

ad...@wmblawyers.com.au

 

Fitzroy Legal Service

124 Johnston St, Fitzroy

03 9419 3744

 

INSERT:

One of our favourite plea statements, or several different variations to allow people a choice.

 

“I am a risk avoiding safety seeking low speed cyclist. I cycle down low speed residential street, street with laneways and dead end roads to avoid the high-speed high-volume motorist.

I recognize that walking and cycling are both very safe what is dangerous for both activities are motorists. By my cautious cycling style I have avoided most of this risk.

A safety device is something that reduces the chance a motorist will hit me.

A helmet does not reduce the chances of being hit, it does not make me safer.

A helmet is an injury reduction device after you have been hit.

 

 

Bruce