[freebeach:407] Obelisk Beach

[www.freebeach.info]

The Mosman Daily
Nudies take over Obelisk Beach as stripping-off faces a ban
06 May 10 @ 03:59pm by Emma Page

Drink-brand nudie spelled out the word "thirsty'' in the sand on
Obelisk Beach today.

A fruit juice brand was promoting nudity on Obelisk Beach today as
Mosman Council revealed its plans to ban nude bathing at the popular
beach.

This morning, drink-brand nudie spelled out the word "thirsty’’ in the
sand on Obelisk Beach to launch its new nudie coconut water.

The publicity stunt comes as Mosman Council voted to lobby the State
Government to ban nude bathing at Obelisk and Cobblers beaches and
return the beaches to the wider community.

At Tuesday night’s meeting the council also said it would campaign for
a police crackdown on illicit behaviour occurring at these nude beach
sites, which have become gay beats over the last 10 years.

Would you support a nudity ban at Obelisk and Cobblers beaches?
Comment below.

Councillor Simon Menzies said nudists at Obelisk and Cobblers often
engaged in sexual liasons in public areas where children played,
including in the public toilets at Middle Head Oval and surrounding
bushland.

"The gay beat is impacting on the lives of children using sporting
facilities down there and parents are very concerned,’’ Cr Menzies
said.

"There are reports of naked men coming out of the bushes and waiting
in the toilets – one mother had to escort her children out of the
amenities because she feared what they might be exposed to.’’

"It’s time the State Government closed the area and moved it somewhere
else.’’

Councillor Denise Wilton, who spearheaded a campaign to ban nude
bathing at Obelisk in 2007 when she was the mayor of Mosman,
emphasised the council was not homophobic or opposed to nudists but
was committed to stopping illegal behaviour and protecting children.

Mosman Council does not have the authority to enforce the ban, as the
beaches are in a national park, but will lobby the state government
over the issue.

http://mosman-daily.whereilive.com.au/news/story/nudies-take-over-obelisk-beach-as-stripping-off-faces-a-ban/

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[Pete]

Hi everyone,

I'm biting my tongue and would love to say more on what I'd like to see done
to any selfish pervert, devient or idiot who is harming our free beaches.

I say call in the police and arrest/or issue on the spot summons's for
offensive behaviour away from these two beaches. Zero tolerance towards any
offenders and total support for and from the good naturists on the beach
should be the goal.

If there is a leader of free beach users on Cobblers, he or she should
liasie with Mosman Coucil and Harbour Side Police LAC asap because Obelisk
and Cobblers are still legally gazette free beaches under Section 633 and
therefore beach going naturists are entitled to protection and visits from
the local police.

Cheers,
Pete

P.S. Can anyone else see the conflict of control over NSW Free Beaches here
at Mosman LGA compared to Randwick LGA?

Mosman want to push the issue of these beaches being gazetted legally
clothing optional back on the NSW State Govt, whereas in the case of Little
Congwong Beach the NSW State Govt has pushed the issue back onto Randwick
LGA.

[Shane]

Every single nudist beach in sydney that has ever been closed has been
closed because of homosexual behaviour. Every single nudist beach in sydney
has degenerated into a "gay beat", driving families and the general public
away. This has nothing to do with "poofta bashing" or "homophobia"

These subspecies of human beings, theses vile, evil perverted scum, need to
be driven off the beaches. The only way that this can be done, and the only
way that nudism will be accepted, is to bring families back to the beaches,
en mass, each and every weekend.

Every single nudist club must come on board with this and bring their
families back to the beaches. Send a clear message to these filthy vermin
that has given every single nudist in australia a bad name. YOU ARE NOT
WELCOME AT OUR BEACHES. Because of these vile perverted scum, every nudist
is a predatory pervert. Becaus of these vermin, public nudity will never be
accepted as normal behaviour.

It is the reason why, at a well known sydney park, when a ten year old boy
fell off his bicycle, screaming in pain, not one single male came to his
aid. They actually kept on walking. Why? They did not want to be accused of
being a pedophile for wanting to touch a ten year old boy.

Such is the evil of these vile vermin. If I had my way they would be shot on
sight.

Michael Hudson

[www.freebeach.info]

The Mosman Daily
Comments:

Andrew writes:
Posted on 7 May 10 at 12:41pm

I would just like to remind readers that this sort of behaviour is
objected to by many, many people in the gay community and it is only a
tiny minority who indulge in this selfish behaviour.

Pat writes:
Posted on 7 May 10 at 11:22am

I do not understand why NSW Police have turned a blind eye to the
sexually deviant behaviour that has gone on in the Middle Head
precinct for decades.

Peter Coult writes:
Posted on 7 May 10 at 10:46am

Why are nudists being singled out as the cause of the problems at
these clothing optional beaches. The perverts that are acting
inappropriately have no relationship to the true nudist lifestyle, and
would only move somewhere else if they are not dealt with
apprpriately.
You wouldn’t ban all cars because some people drink drive, why ban
nudists because some people don’t follow the laws on appropriate
behaviour.
As for handing the beaches back to the wider community, they have
never been taken away, there is no law that says you must be nude.
Clothing optional beaches only account for a tiny fraction of
Australia’s coastline, if someone is truly offended by the human body
in its natural state they have enormous opportunity to find other
locations to visit the beach.
The Mossman Council and the N.S.W. Police Force need to not take
the perceived easy option of penalising legitimate nudists and bring
the full force of the law to bear on these perverts because once all
the clothing optional beaches have gone these people will be hiding in
the bushes at any beach.

david writes:
Posted on 6 May 10 at 10:43pm

I agree. Everyone needs police protection from those looking for
sexual gratification at any beach. Many of the men cruising for sex at
so called gay beats are married and can only indulge in a public
place. I’m pleased that no one on the council criticized the genuine
nudists. Occasional police patrols with prosecution of anyone
indulging in public sex would soon clear up the problem.

mick writes:
Posted on 6 May 10 at 09:06pm

Dear Mr Simon Menzies, you quote that nudists at obelisk and
cobblers beaches often engage in sexual liasons is total
misrepresantation of genuine nudists/naturists whom come from all
walks of life including singles, couples, and families.
Genuine nudists do not tolerate sexual liasons in public and we
also would like to stamp out sexual liasons in public areas, these
areas you use the term “gay beats” are not what you say, people who
prefer the same sex often have partners and are also against the
people who enagage in sexual liasons in public areas, what these
people who engage in sexual liasons are greedy selfish individuals who
seek other greedy selfish individuals for there own sexual
gratifaction and have no regard for honest community members of
differant lifestyles or sexual choices whom are honest community
members.
While i dont live in your state im a nudist and have encountered
both anti-socail males and females at my local nudist beach and would
like anti-socail sexual liasons at public places stamped out. Next
time you make a statement in public please make sure it is a correct
one.

sara writes:
Posted on 6 May 10 at 07:29pm

What a joy to skinny-dip,
Bare as one can be,
Water felt on all my skin
As it washes over me.
To feel warming rays all over,
Lying in the sun,
Remembering to rotate when
One side enough is done.
It’s time to turn your life skin-side out
(Naturistmingle.com)

Rebecca writes:
Posted on 6 May 10 at 06:59pm

I think that it’s high time that something be done in this area
around Obelisk and Cobblers Beach.
We often walk along the road from Burnt Orange to Chowder Bay and
have seen many unsavoury acts along the way in the bushes between men.
It is not somewhere that I would feel comfortable walking on my own. I
have nothing against nudists but this area definitely needs to be
regularly patrolled to stamp out this kind of behaviour!!!
If there is a petition, I would be more than happy to sign it
along with 100s of others!

J. R. Pimpinpan... writes:
Posted on 6 May 10 at 06:54pm

I’d go to Obelisk more if it wasn’t such a gay beat. Look at Reef
Beach - that used to be nudist and became known as being a bit of a
gay beat, but now it is nude bathing prohibited and a nice, quiet
family beach.

Why not de-nude Obelisk, and leave Cobblers as is?

David writes:
Posted on 6 May 10 at 06:52pm

If there is a problem, the police should address that with the
individuals. I regularly go to Cobblers with my family and have not
witnessed any problems. I feel a hell of a lot safer taking my family
to Cobblers than walking down George Street after dark.
Leave the nudist alone, the textiles have more than enough beaches
to choose from, what we really need is more nudist beaches so we are
not packed in like sardines on a hot summers days. Surely councillors
have more important things to do, imagine the revenue they would reap
from the nudist if parking meters were installed. Let me guess, when
the new carpark opens, will we see parking meters???

Graham writes:
Posted on 6 May 10 at 05:49pm

Genuine nudists using Obelisk and Cobblers are no problem what so
ever, the beaches are remote and difficult to access. If there are
problems in the toilets (which are forever locked from my experience
but that’s another matter) then police the area and deal with the
issue.
A ban will do nothing to chase the “problem” away and there is no
connection between the area being a gay beat and being adjacent to
nude beaches . . . the beaches have been used by nudists for many
years and will continue to be.
Fix the parking in the area if you’ve got a burning desire to do
something and leave harmless genuine nudists alone.

Add your Comment
http://mosman-daily.whereilive.com.au/news/comments/nudies-take-over-obelisk-beach-as-stripping-off-faces-a-ban/

[madpair]

To tell you all the truth, as we all do know, it's not only
guys that hide in the bushes or in the open, but also couples,
they get a thrill from doing it in front of other.

I am a nudist male and I had lived in Sydney for many years.
The open display of any sexual acts should not be tolerated by any
real nudist on any nudist beaches.
We have been nudists for many years and I have always kept up with the
free beach forum, but the bull rubbish about gay beat this & that.
We now don't take our kids to our local Birdie Beach just because of the
total lack of control.
By more so the males then the females to refrain from have SEX in some
form on an open beach.
It is the not 1 persons job to stop this action but all of ours,
On the few times we had gone with our kids and had requested,
that CPLS that were having open sex on the beach more it more private,
we were told it fun here and exciting, to whom we wondered and receive
no assistance from other nudist on the beach.
It is a shame that the only places where we as a family can be free
and nude together is at home.
No wonder nudism is now something no one stands up for or help others
support.
It's easy to send in a blog or forum as a show of support but when we
need to stand up and be counted.
I bet the real numbers will be less then 1/5 if we're lucky at all to
get a show on the beach.
& that is what we need, full support so we can let not only mine or your
kids if you have any feel and enjoy the life and freedom.
LETS STAND UP AGAINST THE PEOPLE THAT FEEL SEX ON THE BEACH is not a
drink but an action they want.
We don't need to go bash anybody but move them to a place at least kids
wont get to see them.

Thank you Jake, Kris & the 4 nudist kids

[www.freebeach.info]

The Mosman Daily
More comments:

Jon writes:
Posted on 7 May 10 at 05:29pm

I have been to cobblers very often over the last few years. I
think there may be a problem with people going into the bushes to
commit dodgy acts. But what I find is the weird characters who just
pretend to be regular nudists. There are quite a few other dodgy
characters who go there. If these people left and the other perverts
we may have a great clothing optional beach. Making it illegal to go
nude there will make decent people break the law.

Pauline writes:
Posted on 7 May 10 at 03:54pm

Anyone that ever goes to Middle Head Oval can see the “gay scene”
that exists down there. It is not nudists that are the problem but
continued acts of indecency, lewd behaviour and on occasions illegal
photography. With children playing down there every day and sometimes
at night surely something should be done to clean it up and closing
the nude beaches (that are the excuse for such gatherings) will be a
start.

Paul writes:
Posted on 7 May 10 at 03:41pm

The issue here is not nudity but lewd behaviour by men in the
bushland and public toilets that goes on 24/7-fuelled by internet
sites that encourage such meetings.The excuse for this scene would
appear to be the nude beaches.The odd visit by the police does nothing
to stop this scene which as everyone knows has been going on for years
unchecked.
The Oval is being used more for CHILDREN'S sports and to have such
rampant lewd acts taking place in the surrounding bushland and toilets
is unacceptable-the beaches should be closed immediately.

Jack writes:
Posted on 7 May 10 at 03:22pm

What children are being exposed to?
I’m sorry, but are children really being brought up to think that
the naked body is abnormal?
Yes, it’s wrong to have sex in a public place regardless of your
sexuality, but what is wrong with sex?
Again, are children being brought up to think that sex is this
perverse act?
There are many worse things in the area that parents should be
worried about e.g drug and alcohol abuse which also takes place in
these places.

Conservative Mosmanites, put your effort and money on something
more worthwhile.

Add your Comment
http://mosman-daily.whereilive.com.au/news/comments/nudies-take-over-obelisk-beach-as-stripping-off-faces-a-ban/

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The Mosman Daily
Can’t bare it: nudity at Obelisk and Cobblers under threat
12 May 10 @ 07:40am by Emma Page

You can leave your hat on: nude bathers' days at Obelisk beach may be
numbered. Picture: Dave Swift

STRIPPING off at Obelisk and Cobblers beaches could be illegal if
Mosman Council can rally State Government support for a ban on nude
bathing.

The council voted unanimously last week to endorse a ban at Obelisk
and Cobblers, two of the last nude beaches in Sydney.

Councillor Simon Menzies, who pushed for the ban, said the beaches
were known gay beats and that sexual liaisons were taking place in
surrounding bushland, public toilets and near Middle Head Oval, where
children play sport.

He said the beaches had been promoted as gay beats over the past 10
years through internet websites such as gaytraveller.com.au, which
names the bush path to Obelisk beach as the “Enchanted Forest Trek”
where “bad things happen to nice boys”.

"The gay beat is operating because of the attraction of nude bathing,”
Cr Menzies said.

"The only way to stamp out lewd behaviour is, unfortunately, to ban
nude bathing at these beaches.”

But naturists who frequent Obelisk and Cobblers beaches argue the
council’s decision to return the sites to the wider community is an
unfair attack on genuine nudists who do the right thing.

"It’s unjust to link nudists who legally use the beach to enjoy the
sun with people who commit illicit activities in the surrounding
bushland,’’ Juan Mellado, of the NSW Free Beach Action Group said.

"They need to look at targeting the real problem, which is getting rid
of these bad elements that we don’t want there either.’’

What do you think? Should there be a ban on nudity? Comment below.

Another nudist at Obelisk beach told the Daily he was fined by
Harbourside police earlier this year for bathing nude on a rocky
outcrop on the edge of the beach because it was outside the legal
zone.

"I don’t come here to engage in sexually lewd behaviours, I come here
to enjoy the sun, sand and water and be nude,’’ he said.

"I commend the police for stamping out perverse activity but, in my
case, I was fined for being normal.’’

Obelisk and Cobblers are owned by NSW National Parks and were two of
five Sydney beaches officially recognised as legal nudist locations in
1996.

In 2007, then-Mosman Mayor Denise Wilton spearheaded a campaign to ban
nudists from Mosman beaches to stop illegal behaviour including
prostitution from occurring in public spaces, but was unsuccessful.

"You will get called homophobic, which I abhor because I do not
discriminate against anyone based on sexual preference, all kinds of
nasty names, but I urge you to be brave and go ahead with this,’’ Cr
Wilton told councillors at last week’s council meeting.

Harbourside Inspector Greg Jewiss said increased police patrols had
monitored the beaches since 2005 and police had made many arrests,
handed out fines and charged people for offensive behaviour.

He said the incidence of offensive behaviour had not increased since
2005 but the number of people witnessing incidents had spiked since
the area had opened up to the public and more sporting groups used
Middle Head Oval.

North Shore State Liberal MP Jillian Skinner said she had recently
received a "sudden spate of emails’’ from residents who believed
families should be able to enjoy two of Sydney’s most beautiful
beaches.

"It’s totally inappropriate for these beaches to continue as nude
bathing sites in this day,’’ Mrs Skinner said.

"We need to deal with the problem ahead of time and eradicate the
source of illegal behaviours.’’

Join the debate: Read comments already posted on the issue.

The council does not have the authority to enforce the ban, as the
beaches are in a national park, but will lobby the State Government
over the issue.

Climate Change and the Environment Minister Frank Sartor, Local
Government Minister Barbara Perry and Police Minister Michael Daley
would all need to agree on a plan to prohibit nude bathing at Obelisk
and Cobblers beaches.

All three ministers were contacted by the Daily, but would not state
whether they would support the ban until they had been contacted by
the council.

http://mosman-daily.whereilive.com.au/news/story/can-t-bare-it-nudity-at-obelisk-and-cobblers-under-threat/

[www.freebeach.info]

From: Richard Mason <rchrd...@aol.com>
To: Free Beach Action NSW <free...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Mon, May 10, 2010 1:43 am
Subject: The Gay Issue on Australian Naturist Beaches

I am in response to the email written by Mr. Hudson.
I have not been to Australia, so I am only speaking from my American
experience, particularly in Florida, USA and other USA sites.
I am not an "ugly American" and I have the deepest respect for
Australians. As an Army Vet, Korean War, I was told by my training
Sergeants who had come back from Korea, that best thing that could
happen to you was to be integrated with an Anzac Unit, especially
Australians.
The naturist beach issue:
First, in America, we learned that there had been no effort on the
part
of Free Beach Groups to organize a Political Action Educational
Program.
The landed resorts had, over the years kept a low profile, in remote
areas, mostly living in fear of closure. They had never been involved
in the Free Beach movement.  Many owners believed that the Free Beach
Movement was bringing unwanted publicity to the nudist lifestyle and
could only cause problems by the visibility that they were bringing to
nude RECREATION.
In 1989, South Florida Free Beaches, a Free Beach Group organized with
the help of Lee Baxandall of The Naturist Society in 1980, decided, to
survive, we had to chart a different course.  We had to get off the
defensive position, which was a loosing position, and establish
certain
truths.
The first thing we did was set up a Legal Defense and Political Action
Fund. This was to raise money needed to employ lawyers, cost of legal
research, participating in court cases of people arrested for nude
and/or top free sunbathing
Next we had to establish for ourselves, what nude sunbathing was.
We quickly learned that the issue of "Public Nudity" is a
Constitutional Law, a State Statute Law and local Ordinance Law,
mishmash  of conflicting definitions and mostly based on ignorance and
old religious myths. All interpreted by some court, somewhere
Further, most people being arrested or cited for public nudity, Being
merely nude, absent any inappropriate behavior,  were being cited
wrongfully. They were being cited for lewd and lascivious behavior or
indecent exposure.
Also, the media would print or report these arrests and create an
atmosphere that all nudity was lewd and all people who were nude were
always involved in inappropriate sex.
We then researched court decisions on the public nudity issue, we
learned that most courts were stating that for the nudity to be lewd,
lascivious or indecent, the nudity had to be combined with some form
of
behavior that was lewd, lascivious and indecent.  Thus "mere nudity"
was not lewd.  The courts also stated in these cases that the nudity
would be OK if it was in an area set apart for that purpose.
Thus, we learned that the police were, in most cases, wrongfully
citing
nude sunbathers. Also, the prosecutors, knowing that they were wrong
citations would prosecute anyway.
Once we learned this, we proactively went out to help people cited. We
showed them where they were wrongfully cited and requested they plead
not guilty and request a jury trial.  This put a stop to wrongfully
convicions by immoral prosecutors.
In 1989, most nudists, naturists, government officials, elected
officials and people in the media believed that mere nudity was
unlawful and indecent, when it was not.
We also learned that government did not have to provide a designated
area for people to enjoy their "lifestyle."
However, in the United States we have the US Constitution with its
Amendments. The 14th Amendment states that we must be treated equally.
The Civil Rights Acts define the equality issue. Many Supreme Court
decisions supported the issue the the intent of the 14th Amendment was
that we are to be treated equally.  Australia may have that right
built
into its Constitution.
We then defined nude sunbathing as nude "recreation".  As a
recreation,
we pointed out that government was spending tax dollars on golf
courses, marinas, stadiums, ball parks to meet other peoples
recreational needs. A designated clothing optional naturist family
beach was our form of recreation. If government did not provide us a
beach, they would be guilty of discriminating against us as a minority
group of people.
We developed a presentation to educate the media and government
officials that mere nudity was not lewd and acceptable in an area set
apart for that purpose.  Many people skinny dipped as young adults in
pools, lakes and the ocean. In the army, boy scouts, People get nude
to
be baptized or in a doctors office. They started to understand.
In South Florida, tourism is our big industry. We then searched for
model Free Beach locatons and used their attendance  numbers as proof
that a designated beach would be good for tourism.
In our effort we learned that a religious back political action group
was behind all the anti nudity efforts. agitating and training city
and
county attorneys on how to close nude beaches.  They wanted to make
mere nudity a crime so that they could go after there main target,
nude
night clubs.
The beach site we picked, at Haulover Beach Park,  was a dangerous
beach area at the time. It had a public rest room where there was a
constant flow of men looking for men for sex.  Once we established our
designated beach at Haulover Beach park, we chased this group out.
What we learned about the public sex issue and the men who are
involved. When police pull a sting and arrest these men, 80% of the
men
are married men. There biggest fear is being identified.  We set up a
team of naturists and with a megaphone, we chased them out of the
park.
We told them we would take there auto tag numbers and find out who
they
were and tell there families what they were doing. They moved on. Are
they gay men? They are married to women. They are fathers of children.
They are also a public health problem, bringing aides, HIV and other
STD home to their wives.
The gay issue.  At Haulover Beach, we have a large gay population.
They
are well behaved and report to us any inappropriate behavior. They are
naturists who happen to be gay. They are also as a group one of the
strongest financial supporters of naturism in the USA. They are also
upset with the public sex element, but we have to redefine the issue
to
government officials, who we have found, are some of the people
hanging
out at these public restrooms.
When we established Haulover Beach Park's, designated naturist beach
in
1991, we knew that the public sex issue would be the issue that would
close the beach after it was set up.
Because of this, we set up our own Crime Watch Program and named it
the
Beach Ambassador Program. We worked with the local police department
to
train our Ambassadors in the Crime Watch Program.  We developed a
Beach
Ambassador Program Handbook. This is available on our web site.
www.sffb.com
The setting up of the Beach Ambassador Program instantly informed the
government officials and the police that we were not going to tolerate
inappropriate behavior on 'our' beach.
It immediately differentiated the naturists from the other guys.
One of the problems we learned was that the police departments have
limited resources. Because they haven't enough officers, they believe
if they can close a beach to nudity, the public sex issue will go
away.
But the fact is, and us naturists have to educate the public, that it
is not the nudity that is the cause of the public sex.
Most men involved in public sex are wearing clothes. Most sex on a
beach is the result of the beach being remote and the number of people
in the area being few. And, there being no police or code enforcement
officers in the area.
If the naturists select a narrow spot on a beach and all go to that
area, they will have power in numbers. They can then expand the area,
as they gain more people.
I can't emphasize enough the power of the Beach Ambassador Program.
Both in Public Relations, the ability to open a dialog with elected
officials, police, neighborhood homeowners associations and chamber of
commerce type groups, it puts naturism into a positive force in the
community.
With the Beach Ambassador Program and a proactive effort to get
officially designated beaches, you change the dynamic from a defensive
effort to a offensive effort. This puts government officials in a
defensive position, and having to explain why they are discriminating
against good citizens.
Haulover's  1/3 mile Naturist Beach today, in its 19th year, sees over
1.5 million visitors annually. The parking lot earned $1.7 million
dollars last year and the economic impact was in excess of $600
million
dollars annually.
Inappropriate behavior will kill a naturist beach, but is the
responsibility of the naturists to stop it. When you do, you will gain
friends from your present enemies in government.

Richard Mason
President
South Florida Free Beaches/
Florida Naturist Association
Miami Beach, Florida 33054
Google Map 150th and Collins Avenue, Miami Beach Florida USA