Re: Always remember that there will be many wrongly convicted people in prison
Mel Rowing
wrote:
> > Those who slaver for ever more demanding prison conditions should bear
> > in mind that a small but significant proportion of those in prison will
> > be innocent or at least convicted on inadequate evidence. Even if it is
> > only 5%, at present prison numbers that would mean around 4,000 people
> > are currently in prison who have been wrong convicted. To those can be
> > added those wrongfully convicted but not imprisoned, almost certain a
> > higher percentage than thos imprisoned because most of those cases go
> > through the magistrates courts which are more prone to conviction.
> > Finally, there are the ongoing effects of wrongful convictions to consider.
Best let them all out!
90% of those in prison pleaded guilty!
> What fills me with equal disgust is the practice of charging the innocent with the cost of
> their imprisonment.
What fills me with disgust is that this character has survived at the
expense of the taxpayer ever since the midwife slapped his arse! He
now seems likely to get a hell of a lot more.
You're right! There's no justice in this world!
john...@gmail.com
In assessing Mel's view that American justice is the best in the the
world, we must bear in mind that he does not himself believe in
justice as the rest of us understand it.
Mel Rowing
> In assessing Mel's view that American justice is the best in the the
> world, we must bear in mind that he does not himself believe in
> justice as the rest of us understand it.
The very fact that this thread has nothing to do with American justice
points to the stupidity of the poster to the point of obsession. Does
he ever think of anything else?
To humour him:
I do believe that US judicial systems are as good as any and better
than most to repeat what I think I am now saying to him for the third
time.
To put it another way, would I prefer to being tried for some alleged
crime in the USoA rather than say China, North Vietnam, Zimbabwe, Iran
or a host of other similar regimes. The answer is an emphatic "Yes"
just a it would be in his case.
Would I rather be tried in the UK, in the EU (for all I say about it)
Australia, Canada, New Zealand as examples. The answer is I have no
feelings on the matter except that I might merely be more familiar
with the UK system than anywhere else. In those circumstances my mind
would be more focussed upon the charge. I could be confident that I
would enjoy the highest standards of justice in these countries just
as is the case in the USoA.
Farmer Giles
> On Aug 3, 8:36 am, Borked Pseudo Mailed <nob...@pseudo.borked.net>
> wrote:
>
>>> Those who slaver for ever more demanding prison conditions should bear
>>> in mind that a small but significant proportion of those in prison will
>>> be innocent or at least convicted on inadequate evidence. Even if it is
>>> only 5%, at present prison numbers that would mean around 4,000 people
>>> are currently in prison who have been wrong convicted. To those can be
>>> added those wrongfully convicted but not imprisoned, almost certain a
>>> higher percentage than thos imprisoned because most of those cases go
>>> through the magistrates courts which are more prone to conviction.
>>> Finally, there are the ongoing effects of wrongful convictions to consider.
> Best let them all out!
How about just trying to get it right, or are you happy that many
innocent people are being locked up? If so, I suspect that you would
very quickly change your tune if you were one of them!
> 90% of those in prison pleaded guilty!
And many of those are innocent too. Defendants are often presented with
a very stark and uncomfortable choice when it comes to making a plea. As
unjust and unsatisfactory as it is, pleading guilty is often the only
realistic option that they have.
>
>> What fills me with equal disgust is the practice of charging the innocent with the cost of
>> their imprisonment.
>
> What fills me with disgust is that this character has survived at the
> expense of the taxpayer ever since the midwife slapped his arse! He
> now seems likely to get a hell of a lot more.
And deservedly so.
>
> You're right! There's no justice in this world!
Very little. And, it would appear, there would be even less if those of
your distorted view were put in charge of the asylum!
Robert Henderson
Giles <gi...@nospam.com> writes
>
>
>> 90% of those in prison pleaded guilty!
>
>And many of those are innocent too. Defendants are often presented with
>a very stark and uncomfortable choice when it comes to making a plea.
Very true, not least under pressure from self serving lawyers who want
to make things easy for themselves. Rh
>As unjust and unsatisfactory as it is, pleading guilty is often the
>only realistic option that they have.
--
Robert Henderson
Blair Scandal website: http://www.geocities.com/ blairscandal/
Personal website: http://www.anywhere.demon.co.uk
john...@gmail.com
To spell it out. Your post appears to suggst that Barry George's
innocence of the crime of which he was convicted is of little concern
to you. Therefore nothing you say about justice deserves to be taken
as seriously as it would if you were employing the word in its normal
sense.
The thread is about justice, so I think it is on topic to point this
out.
john...@gmail.com
> expense of the taxpayer ever since the midwife slapped his arse! He
> now seems likely to get a hell of a lot more.
>
Personally I'm not too happy about the continued existence of men with
unpleasannt opinions such as your good self. Collectively you are far
more of a meance than the likes of Barry George, because you can vote
for your views, and connive at the perecution and imprisonment of many
good people, so wrecking countless lives.
But I am humane and tolerant and would never counteneance strangling
you at birth.
True Blue
"Robert Henderson" <phi...@anywhere.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:BJ73H7YU...@anywhere.demon.co.uk...
> In message <-dKdnZMn6fVEFAjV...@brightview.com>, Farmer Giles
> <gi...@nospam.com> writes
>>
>>
>>> 90% of those in prison pleaded guilty!
>>
>>And many of those are innocent too. Defendants are often presented with a
>>very stark and uncomfortable choice when it comes to making a plea.
>
> Very true, not least under pressure from self serving lawyers who want to
> make things easy for themselves. Rh
>
>
>>As unjust and unsatisfactory as it is, pleading guilty is often the only
>>realistic option that they have.
Ahh, ........prisons. No subject triggers the "Incomplete Equation" amongst
the ranks of the Rights Brigade quite like prisons. If you double the prison
population, you double the amount of people put inside wrongly, so you
double the "wrong". Simple, yes? But hold on, you are also doubling the
number of correctly convicted felons, which means you are greatly reducing
the murder, rape, maiming, assault, robbery, burglary, fear and loathing
*outside* the prison walls.
Ditto costs. People who find talking about the NHS in terms of cost to be
the cold, vulgar and unfeeling preserve of the Right - "who know the cost of
everything and the value of nothing" - never hesitate to quote "cost" as a
primary reason for not using prisons as a means of reducing crime. We often
hear the per capita figure of incarcerating the average lag in British
prisons. Never have I seen the costs of having the criminals *outside* the
prison system balanced against this figure. Although I admit that it is hard
to numerate what this figure should be, when you ponder the number of
criminals who ask for 20 or 30 other offences to be taken into
consideration, and the number of offences committed whilst on bail, it would
be fair to guess, that figure is high. Add to this the huge industry that
thrives on crime <l-a-w-y-e-r-s> - at our expense, and there is a compelling
argument that imprisonment, for certain areas of crime *saves money*.
Getting back to the original point, you are only looking at the balance
sheet wrt to the "wrong" perpetrated by the State. In the wider society, we
must look at the whole balance sheet. And when we do that, we see that
increasing prison population decreases the whole "wrong".
Mel Rowing
Really? You don't say!
I was of the impression that you wanted to use this as an opportunity
to get in your periodic americano bashing. I was a little surprised
that you didn't work in a little anti-Bushism and "illegal wars"
whilst you were about it. Your sort usually do!
You are right in one sense. The question of George's innocence or
guilt is of no concern to me. I have no idea (as I've already said)
whether George killed Dando or not. I rather suspect he might have but
am in no position to judge. For that reason I'm content to leave such
to others better placed and tasked with making that judgement on both
occasions.
However I thought it pertinent to point out that we aren't dealing
with a folk hero here. George is an ex-con by virtue of his past
misdemeanors that have subsequently been repeated all be it at a lower
level as far as we know.
His possibly mistaken incaceration almost certainly has perhaps
fortuitously spared unknown ladies his unwanted attentions as they do
no more than walk public streets. I feel more sorrow for them than
happiness for him.
I note there have been no suggestions here as to how the menace or
nuisance he clearly presents to female society is going to be
addressed.
john...@gmail.com
> On Aug 3, 6:17 pm, john....@gmail.com wrote:
>
>
>
> > On 3 Aug, 10:40, Mel Rowing <mel.row...@btinternet.com> wrote:
> > > Would I rather be tried in the UK, in the EU (for all I say about it)
> > > Australia, Canada, New Zealand as examples. The answer is I have no
> > > feelings on the matter except that I might merely be more familiar
> > > with the UK system than anywhere else. In those circumstances my mind
> > > would be more focussed upon the charge. I could be confident that I
> > > would enjoy the highest standards of justice in these countries just
> > > as is the case in the USoA.
>
> > To spell it out. Your post appears to suggst that Barry George's
> > innocence of the crime of which he was convicted is of little concern
> > to you. Therefore nothing you say about justice deserves to be taken
> > as seriously as it would if you were employing the word in its normal
> > sense.
> > The thread is about justice, so I think it is on topic to point this
> > out.
>
> Really? You don't say!
>
> I was of the impression that you wanted to use this as an opportunity
> to get in your periodic americano bashing. I was a little surprised
> that you didn't work in a little anti-Bushism and "illegal wars"
> whilst you were about it. Your sort usually do!
It's Mel bashing that really concerns me here. You seem to have an
excessively high opinion of your intellectual powers.
>
> You are right in one sense. The question of George's innocence or
> guilt is of no concern to me. I have no idea (as I've already said)
> whether George killed Dando or not. I rather suspect he might have but
> am in no position to judge. For that reason I'm content to leave such
> to others better placed and tasked with making that judgement on both
> occasions.
Like the second jury?
>
> However I thought it pertinent to point out that we aren't dealing
> with a folk hero here.
No one says he is that. He is a victim.
>George is an ex-con by virtue of his past
> misdemeanors that have subsequently been repeated all be it at a lower
> level as far as we know.
>
> His possibly mistaken incaceration almost certainly has perhaps
> fortuitously spared unknown ladies his unwanted attentions as they do
> no more than walk public streets. I feel more sorrow for them than
> happiness for him.
>
> I note there have been no suggestions here as to how the menace or
> nuisance he clearly presents to female society is going to be
> addressed.
As I pointed out, you yourself present a serious menace to quite a lot
of decent people through your obnoxious opinions. Some menaces we just
have to put up with as part of the price of freedom.
Farmer Giles
To even bother to try and answer such rambling twaddle would dignify it
far more than it deserves. Why don't we just do away with trials
altogether, throw everyone in prison who looks vaguely suspicious, that
way we're bound to have locked up a few more 'felons'.
True Blue
"Farmer Giles" <gi...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:NpWdnZ32cLuCVAvV...@brightview.com...
Trans: "I can't counter it"
> Why don't we just do away with trials altogether, throw everyone in prison
> who looks vaguely suspicious,
Now you're being childish.
>that way we're bound to have locked up a few more 'felons'.
All I ask, is that people look at the broader picture. It is notable that
those who go overboard when a miscarriage occurs, are usually silent on the
subject of the actions of criminals. The vast majority of oppressors in our
society are not the State, but criminals and thugs who make life unbearable
for those around them.
Some people can't see injustice until it starts wearing a uniform.