Incitement to violence.....

[Brian Robertson]

I have just read this article in the Daily 'Hurrah for the Blackshirts'
Mail.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2331399/Passengers-packed-sweltering-carriages-overflowing-toilets-clueless-staff-police-called-quell-mutiny-My-Bank-Holiday-nightmare-Britains-Third-World-railways-cost-125-ticket-10-hour-journey.html

I work in public transport, so I know that the British public get a raw
deal, but I also know that it is rarely the fault of front line staff.
The negativity shown towards the staff - with descriptions like
'gormless guard' and the suggestion that the conductor would have been
lynched many times over if he had tried to walk down the train - was
deeply unfair and shocking.

So I want to ask a question: what would be the opinion of fellow posters
on here about the possibility of reporting the hack responsible to the
police for incitement to violence?

Brian.

[Graeme Wall]

It's a standard hack piece by the Mail, note how the reporter is in just
the right place to help so many people�


--
Graeme Wall
This account not read, substitute trains for rail.
Railway Miscellany at <http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail>

[Brian Robertson]

On 27/05/2013 09:55, Graeme Wall wrote:
> On 27/05/2013 09:12, Brian Robertson wrote:
>> I have just read this article in the Daily 'Hurrah for the Blackshirts'
>> Mail.
>>
>> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2331399/Passengers-packed-sweltering-carriages-overflowing-toilets-clueless-staff-police-called-quell-mutiny-My-Bank-Holiday-nightmare-Britains-Third-World-railways-cost-125-ticket-10-hour-journey.html
>>
>>
>>
>> I work in public transport, so I know that the British public get a raw
>> deal, but I also know that it is rarely the fault of front line staff.
>> The negativity shown towards the staff - with descriptions like
>> 'gormless guard' and the suggestion that the conductor would have been
>> lynched many times over if he had tried to walk down the train - was
>> deeply unfair and shocking.
>>
>> So I want to ask a question: what would be the opinion of fellow posters
>> on here about the possibility of reporting the hack responsible to the
>> police for incitement to violence?
>>
>
> It's a standard hack piece by the Mail, note how the reporter is in just
> the right place to help so many people�
>
>

It's standard for sure. But it doesn't mean that it shouldn't be
challenged if it can be.

Brian.

[Roland Perry]

In message <0AEot.50952$An5....@fx08.am4>, at 09:12:44 on Mon, 27 May
2013, Brian Robertson <br...@nospams.com> remarked:

>I work in public transport, so I know that the British public get a raw
>deal, but I also know that it is rarely the fault of front line staff.
>The negativity shown towards the staff - with descriptions like
>'gormless guard' and the suggestion that the conductor would have been
>lynched many times over if he had tried to walk down the train - was
>deeply unfair and shocking.

The impression that the public have is that the staff are out of their
depth when things go wrong, and struggle to cope with the situation. If
articles like this cause the train companies to up their game when
there's serious disruption, it's a good thing.

The Friday evening of a Bank Holiday weekend on a line like East Coast
is exactly when the Train Company should have extra staff on duty (not
just on the train but at stations and at HQ managing the flow of
information and putting contingencies in place), because if things start
to go wrong they'll escalate badly if not handled properly.
--
Roland Perry

[Graeme Wall]

Nothing to challenge, it's just an opinion. They run similar pieces
most bank holidays.

[Mark Goodge]

On Mon, 27 May 2013 10:20:50 +0100, Roland Perry put finger to keyboard and
typed:

>In message <0AEot.50952$An5....@fx08.am4>, at 09:12:44 on Mon, 27 May
>2013, Brian Robertson <br...@nospams.com> remarked:
>>I work in public transport, so I know that the British public get a raw
>>deal, but I also know that it is rarely the fault of front line staff.
>>The negativity shown towards the staff - with descriptions like
>>'gormless guard' and the suggestion that the conductor would have been
>>lynched many times over if he had tried to walk down the train - was
>>deeply unfair and shocking.
>
>The impression that the public have is that the staff are out of their
>depth when things go wrong, and struggle to cope with the situation. If
>articles like this cause the train companies to up their game when
>there's serious disruption, it's a good thing.

Yes, I agree. And even if the on-train staff have no power to make any
significant changes, they can still make a big difference by how they
behave. There is an art in delivering bad news in a way which minimises its
effect, and that particular skill is all too often absent in this kind of
situation.

Also, unexpected situations have a tendency to reveal previously
unconsidered issues that, with the benefit of hindsight, turn out to be
very important. For example, the question of how to provide adequate
ventilation to a train where either the power has failed completely or the
air conditioning itself is faulty.

>The Friday evening of a Bank Holiday weekend on a line like East Coast
>is exactly when the Train Company should have extra staff on duty (not
>just on the train but at stations and at HQ managing the flow of
>information and putting contingencies in place), because if things start
>to go wrong they'll escalate badly if not handled properly.

Indeed. It's something of a truism that the difference between good and bad
customer service is how you handle things which go badly wrong.

Mark
--
Please take a short survey on salary perceptions: http://meyu.eu/am
My blog: http://mark.goodge.co.uk

[Neil Williams]

Brian Robertson <br...@nospams.com> wrote:

> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2331399/Passengers-packed-sweltering-carriages-overflowing-toilets-clueless-staff-police-called-quell-mutiny-My-Bank-Holiday-nightmare-Britains-Third-World-railways-cost-125-ticket-10-hour-journey.html
>
> I work in public transport, so I know that the British public get a raw deal,

Compared with genuine "third world" railways, a few of which I have used,
that comparison is childish. Then again, it is the Daily Wail we're
talking about.

Neil
--
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK. Put first name before the at to reply.

[Brian Robertson]

On 27/05/2013 18:17, Mark Goodge wrote:
> On Mon, 27 May 2013 10:20:50 +0100, Roland Perry put finger to keyboard and
> typed:
>

> Yes, I agree. And even if the on-train staff have no power to make any
> significant changes, they can still make a big difference by how they
> behave. There is an art in delivering bad news in a way which minimises its
> effect, and that particular skill is all too often absent in this kind of
> situation.
>

That is a complete pile of SHIT!

[Mitch]

> That is a complete pile of SHIT!

+1

[Mark Goodge]

On Mon, 27 May 2013 19:34:12 +0100, Brian Robertson put finger to keyboard

and typed:

>On 27/05/2013 18:17, Mark Goodge wrote:
>> On Mon, 27 May 2013 10:20:50 +0100, Roland Perry put finger to keyboard and
>> typed:
>>
>
>> Yes, I agree. And even if the on-train staff have no power to make any
>> significant changes, they can still make a big difference by how they
>> behave. There is an art in delivering bad news in a way which minimises its
>> effect, and that particular skill is all too often absent in this kind of
>> situation.
>>
>
>That is a complete pile of SHIT!

That's a perfect example of the absence of that skill :-)

[Frank Mander]

"Brian Robertson" <br...@nospams.com> wrote in message
news:0AEot.50952$An5....@fx08.am4...

> I work in public transport, >

Says it all doesn't it?
Perhaps rather than wasting your time on unimportant issues such as this you
should redirect your effort towards getting Tony Blair prosecuted for War
Crimes and Ted Heath for Treason.

[John C]

"Mark Goodge" <use...@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk> wrote in message
news:fd47q8pb6td0ta2ds...@news.markshouse.net...

> Yes, I agree. And even if the on-train staff have no power to make any
> significant changes, they can still make a big difference by how they
> behave. There is an art in delivering bad news in a way which minimises
> its
> effect, and that particular skill is all too often absent in this kind of
> situation.
>
> Also, unexpected situations have a tendency to reveal previously
> unconsidered issues that, with the benefit of hindsight, turn out to be
> very important. For example, the question of how to provide adequate
> ventilation to a train where either the power has failed completely or the
> air conditioning itself is faulty.
>

East Coast should be well rehearsed in what to do when the power fails.
There have been other incidents where people have broken windows to let in
fresh air. There are a few things in this story that don't add up. If the
1800 from King's Cross broke down and the 1900 rescued it, how did the 1830
get past? Why wasn't the 1900 held at Alnmouth until plans had been made to
rescue the 1800? And why did it take 90 minutes of dithering to couple a
mark 4 set onto the back of another mark 4 set? Clearly the suggestion that
they had to turn off the lights and air con in order to move up to assist
the failure is nonsense. All very strange.

John

[Roland Perry]

In message <S9mdndld965YCjnM...@bt.com>, at 12:40:53 on
Tue, 28 May 2013, John C <cig...@yahoo.co.uk> remarked:

>
>East Coast should be well rehearsed in what to do when the power fails.

"Should" being the operative word.

>There have been other incidents where people have broken windows to let
>in fresh air. There are a few things in this story that don't add up.
>If the 1800 from King's Cross broke down and the 1900 rescued it, how
>did the 1830 get past?

A good question.

According to Raildar, the 18.30 passed Alnmouth at 23:42 (90 late).

The 18.00 got to Alnmouth at 00:14 (181 late).

So somewhere these two trains got swapped. Just south of Newark,
according to Raildar.

And the 19:00 got to Alnmouth at 00:27 (128 late), but didn't get to
Berwick until 02:50 (252 late).

>Why wasn't the 1900 held at Alnmouth until plans had been made to
>rescue the 1800? And why did it take 90 minutes of dithering to couple
>a mark 4 set onto the back of another mark 4 set?

The dithering in question is fundamental to my earlier reply.
--
Roland Perry

[e27002]

On May 28, 1:22 am, "Frank Mander" <fredrick.man...@btinternet.com>
wrote:

Should you be prosecuted for giving aid and comfort, to the enemy, in
time of war?

[Graeme Wall]

Anyone would think a tabloid journalist just made it all up.

[Brian Robertson]

Do keep up with the news. Prosecuting Ted Heath would be somewhat difficult.

Brian.

PS Stop being such a turd.

[The Real Doctor]

On 27/05/13 10:20, Roland Perry wrote:
> The impression that the public have is that the staff are out of their
> depth when things go wrong, and struggle to cope with the situation.

Indeed. The on-train staff can do a huge amount to improve people's
perception of the situation by being seen, giving information when they
have it (and admitting when they haven't) and generally giving the
impression that someone cares. If they hide away, keep their heads down
and say nothing it creates a very bad impression.

I was once on a Go flight from Stansted to Edinburgh which was running
something like three hours late at Stansted. The atmosphere at the
departure gate was getting a bit restless, when the Captain appear at
the desk, "I'm sorry" he said "but we are waiting for a new component to
be fitted. I know you must find this frustrating, and I assure you that
we do too - we all get off shift in Edinburgh and we want to be home.
Please bear with us." It completely defused the tension and annoyance.

Many railway staff are just as good but some, alas, are not. I wonder if
the journalist's experience was a relic of the old "Sod the passengers,
unless they are first class commuters" which was endemic in GNER.

Ian

[The Real Doctor]

Customer service at its best.

Ian

[Graeme Wall]

As Master Figgis pointed out, they did it with Ollie.

[The Real Doctor]

On 27/05/13 09:12, Brian Robertson wrote:
> So I want to ask a question: what would be the opinion of fellow posters
> on here about the possibility of reporting the hack responsible to the
> police for incitement to violence?

Go on. Please. Remember to report the staff for false imprisonment and
disability discrimination while you're at it.

Ian

[MB]

On 29/05/2013 11:04, Graeme Wall wrote:
>> Do keep up with the news. Prosecuting Ted Heath would be somewhat
>> difficult.
>
> As Master Figgis pointed out, they did it with Ollie.
>

They only exhume and have posthumous executions for serious offences
like having used the wrong type of railway ticket or getting off at the
wrong station.

[John C]

"Roland Perry" <rol...@perry.co.uk> wrote in message
news:QNktBUkY...@perry.co.uk...

> A good question.
>
> According to Raildar, the 18.30 passed Alnmouth at 23:42 (90 late).
>
> The 18.00 got to Alnmouth at 00:14 (181 late).
>
> So somewhere these two trains got swapped. Just south of Newark, according
> to Raildar.
>

The earlier delays were caused by a broken rail between Newark and Retford.
Single line working over the up line was eventually set up, but by then a
few trains were running 120 to 180 minutes late. It appears that the 1830
(HST) overtook the 1800 (class 91) at Grantham. Perhaps the intention was to
divert via Lincoln.

John