Airing cupboards and wiring regs.
Ret.
bathroom for wiring regs - or a room separate from the bathroom?
Kev
js.b1
> Is the interior of an airing cupboard in a bathroom considered part of the
> bathroom for wiring regs - or a room separate from the bathroom?
Heh-heh, this is a long one.
- Lax view used to be a close fitting door made it a separate room,
but I would not bank on this view being so common now.
- Typical view is that unless the door requires use of a tool (eg,
spline lock) then it is subject to any neighbouring zone when opened.
For example if you open the door on a cupboard which is butted up
against a bath then Zone 2 of the bath extends around the door/door-
frame into the cupboard. The usual solution is i) make the door hinge
so it blocks the zone ii) move wiring accessories further away iii)
move wiring accessories to the ceiling iv) use IPx4-in-use wiring
accessories.
Example.
You have a cupboard housing an immersion, someone in the bath can open
the door (does not require use of a tool) and turn the switch on
despite it being in a IP56 masterseal fused spur (flip lid and IP
rating is lost) because it is within 60cm of the bath.
Solution.
i) to iv) above.
Taking iv) use an Eterna IP65 box with any wiring accessory, box can
be locked by cable-tie or padlock; or Smiths (?) do an IP56 rated
fused spur with lockable box (requires padlock as I recall).
I do not recommend the use of IP65 rotary isolators.
Such isolators have terminals with arched conductor clamps that do not
close fully - they have a minimum cable size. This renders them
unusable for 1.5-2.5mm flex (load) unless bootlace ferrules are used
and even for 2.5mm cable (supply). By unusable I mean the terminal
appears tight, but the cable is truly not retained with a fire very
possible.
One remaining problem is the immersion cable-connection, few are IPx4
rated.
That can be resolved with a waterproof connector hood, or most apply
some common sense - no-one is going to undo it (screwdriver) whilst
sitting in the bath (zone 2) because what would the objective be?!.
Someone will no doubt fail it, in which case box the immersion in or a
sheet of hardboard with small holesaw cut holes. This one is not a
major problem, but someone reaching around from the bath into a
cupboard turning an immersion on is - particularly if a cast-iron
bath.
If you are planning on appliances, things can get more involved if a
boiler.
A lot of the Corgi/Gas-Safe crowd will fail it in a bathroom, others
will fit them - it comes down to interpretation plus manufacturers
requirements.
Ret.
Thanks for all that. It is indeed a boiler in my son's bathroom airing
cupboard which is being replaced. A simple combi swap. The heating engineer
who is doing the job is a friend of a friend of theirs and is not
electrically qualified. He will install the boiler, but would normally call
in an electrician he knows to wire up the boiler. He is happy for me to wire
up the boiler if I feel confident in doing that (which I do), but as a
tradesman he does not want to fall foul of regulations and so will not do
the wiring himself.
My query, therefore, was more to do with whether *I* will be falling foul of
wiring regs!
Kev
js.b1
> It is indeed a boiler in my son's bathroom airing
> cupboard which is being replaced.
Key is *replaced* - you are not adding a new final circuit in a
special location.
In short.
1 - Non-Notifiable Works
2 - DIY-able if you are competent
In full.
- BR AD "P" page 8 "Additional Notes"
- "b) Replacement, repair and maintenance jobs are generally not
notifiable, even if carried out in a kitchen or special location or
associated with a special installation"
If the cable is damaged you can likewise replace that.
If the backbox is 25mm and you need 35mm, likewise replace that.
If you have an application where oval/round conduit can better
facilitate replacement of the cable in the future - it would be worth
replacing capping accordingly. Mechanical protection is permitted
under Table 1 and plastic conduit IS mechanical protection w.r.t.
plastering trowel edge.
Ret.
That's excellent news - thanks for your advice. I would probably have gone
ahead and done the wiring anyway - but knowing that I will not be
contravening any regs is comforting.
The present boiler is controlled by a hard-wired timer - and I will be
replacing that with an rf wireless programmer/stat with the receiver in
place of the existing timer. I have the same boiler and wireless programmer
myself and so have been able to examine the wiring on mine and carefully
draw up a diagram showing where the wiring goes. No more difficult than
wiring up a plug really. I'll also be cross-bonding the pipes coming out of
the boiler (although that hasn't been done on the existing boiler).
An interesting point is that the wiring on my own boiler, put in 18months
ago, and wired up by a qualified electrician, was not impressive. In
particular, inside the wireless receiver, two live wires were simply twisted
together and left like that. No insulating 'twist' connector, no choc-blok
connector - and not even a covering of insulating tape. Where the flex goes
into the board on the boiler there are tapered conical neoprene glands which
are supposed to be cut to the precise size of the flex to form a seal. The
electrician who wired my boiler just cut both glands off at the base so that
the flex is very loose fit and there is no effective seal at all. I despair
of the workmanship of some professionals at times!
Kev
js.b1
> two live wires were simply twisted
> together and left like that.
Check on Ebay for 290315838827
- 2 wire (flex & solid) commoning connector
- Made by Wago, it is a Wago Lever connector
Flip up the orange lever, strip 10mm insulation, insert, flick lever
down, done.
Rated to 20A/32A. Handle tiny stranded right up to 4mm flex or 2.5mm
solid (not 4mm 7-strand I'm afraid).
> The electrician who wired my boiler just cut both
> glands off at the base so that the flex is very loose
> fit and there is no effective seal at all. I despair of
> the workmanship of some professionals at times!
Horrendous.
Ret.
> On Nov 10, 10:20 am, "Ret." <xxx> wrote:
>> two live wires were simply twisted
>> together and left like that.
>
> Check on Ebay for 290315838827
> - 2 wire (flex & solid) commoning connector
> - Made by Wago, it is a Wago Lever connector
>
> Flip up the orange lever, strip 10mm insulation, insert, flick lever
> down, done.
> Rated to 20A/32A. Handle tiny stranded right up to 4mm flex or 2.5mm
> solid (not 4mm 7-strand I'm afraid).
They look really useful - although I'm not sure that I do enough electrical
work to make good use of them.
>
>> The electrician who wired my boiler just cut both
>> glands off at the base so that the flex is very loose
>> fit and there is no effective seal at all. I despair of
>> the workmanship of some professionals at times!
>
> Horrendous.
Indeed!
Kev
ro...@cix.compulink.co.uk
> *From:* "js.b1" <js...@ntlworld.com>
> *Date:* Tue, 10 Nov 2009 06:45:26 -0800 (PST)
>
> On Nov 10, 10:20�am, "Ret." <xxx> wrote:
> > two live wires were simply twisted
> > together and left like that.
>
> Check on Ebay for 290315838827
> - 2 wire (flex & solid) commoning connector
> - Made by Wago, it is a Wago Lever connector
>
> Flip up the orange lever, strip 10mm insulation, insert, flick lever
> down, done.
> Rated to 20A/32A. Handle tiny stranded right up to 4mm flex or 2.5mm
> solid (not 4mm 7-strand I'm afraid).
I want! I want!
These are ideal for what I want - I can think of many uses where they'd be
much easier than using a choc block. I'm going to have to sort out an
order right away!
Roger
js.b1
>
> I want! I want!
> These are ideal for what I want - I can think of many uses
> where they'd be much easier than using a choc block.
> I'm going to have to sort out an order right away!
They are excellent - the lever works better than the push-in type, but
beware it can be very stiff.
ro...@cix.compulink.co.uk
<8cdd8847-0a7c-4e3e...@v30g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>,
js...@ntlworld.com (js.b1) wrote:
> *From:* "js.b1" <js...@ntlworld.com>
> *Date:* Wed, 11 Nov 2009 14:11:57 -0800 (PST)
Does anybody know how you make multiple purchases on E-bay (I rarely use
E-bay). I want to order about four different Wago items and the site
states that there is a discount in shipping costs if multiple purchases
are made. When I select the first item and click on "Buy now", I then get
the item price details etc. listed and have to click on another button to
confirm that I want it and which will make the contract binding.
There doesn't appear to be the equivalent of a cart or similar for that
seller's shop where you can add all the items together and then finalise
the order (with the reduced shipping costs). Or do I have to order the
items individually in the normal way and the seller reduces the shipping
charge before I get the final total to pay?
I did send a message to the W-bay shop (Cable Supplies) last night, but
I've had no reply yet (17.50).
Roger
ro...@cix.compulink.co.uk
ro...@cix.compulink.co.uk () wrote:
> *From:* ro...@cix.compulink.co.uk
> *Date:* Thu, 12 Nov 2009 11:53:47 -0600
Now sorted, I'd missed the seller's reply.
Roger