Drilling masonry for shelf supports
mentalguy2004
I'm trying to put up some supports for small shelves, I've got a set of
screws/wallplugs (brown). I forget what size they are, but I know I need a
7mm drill bit to accommodate the wallplugs. Do I need to pilot drill the
hole first, and if so, what size(s) would you recommend starting
with/stepping up through? The walls are about 1 inch plaster, then brick,
which means that my hammer drill chews a huge hole in the plaster, and then
struggles with the brick. I'm going out tomorrow for some new masonry drill
bits, any suggestions as to make/type? (My drill is a chuck-key type).
Can anyone advise, or point me towards a decent guide to doing this without
ending up with a hole I can stick my head through?? Thanks a lot!
tin...@isbd.co.uk
> Hi,
>
> I'm trying to put up some supports for small shelves, I've got a set of
> screws/wallplugs (brown). I forget what size they are, but I know I need a
> 7mm drill bit to accommodate the wallplugs. Do I need to pilot drill the
In my opinion (I know others may disagree) that's *way* too big. For
anything except huge weights yellow (4mm) or red (5mm) will be
absolutely fine.
> hole first, and if so, what size(s) would you recommend starting
> with/stepping up through? The walls are about 1 inch plaster, then brick,
> which means that my hammer drill chews a huge hole in the plaster, and then
> struggles with the brick. I'm going out tomorrow for some new masonry drill
> bits, any suggestions as to make/type? (My drill is a chuck-key type).
>
> Can anyone advise, or point me towards a decent guide to doing this without
> ending up with a hole I can stick my head through?? Thanks a lot!
>
If you're happy to spend a few (tens) of pounds get an SDS drill and
forget about masonry bits in a 'conventional' hammer drill. I have an
(oldish) Stayer SDS and it drills holes in even very hard engineering
bricks incredibly fast. You can get a cheapo (but still quite
effective) SDS drill for only 30 pounds or so nowadays.
--
Chris Green
Tanner-'op
> Hi,
>
> I'm trying to put up some supports for small shelves, I've got a set
> of screws/wallplugs (brown). I forget what size they are, but I know
> I need a 7mm drill bit to accommodate the wallplugs. Do I need to
> pilot drill the hole first, and if so, what size(s) would you
> recommend starting with/stepping up through?
No, you don't really need a pilot hole for a drill of this size.
The walls are about 1
> inch plaster, then brick, which means that my hammer drill chews a
> huge hole in the plaster, and then struggles with the brick. I'm
> going out tomorrow for some new masonry drill bits, any suggestions
> as to make/type? (My drill is a chuck-key type).
Possible four problems here (or a combination):
1) The tungsten drill bit is blunt - or of poor quality.
2) The drill itself is slightly bent thus inducing a 'wobble' effect.
3) You are starting the hole with the drill on the 'hammer' setting.
4) Your drill is not 'man-enough' for the job (especially if it's a
'cheap' cordless one).
The solutions are obvious:
1 Change the drill bit for a good quality new one.
2 Start the hole with the drill 'off' the hammer setting until the hole
is started and just below the surface - and then apply the 'hammer', and
push the drill with an even pressure - letting the drill bit do the work -
and occasionally pulling the drill out of the hole to clear any build up of
dust - especially if the wall is a bit on the damp side.
3 Get hold of a good quality cordless drill - or better still (in my
opinion) a good quality 'wired' one.
Hope this helps mentalguy2004
Tanner-'op
mentalguy2004
"Tanner-'op" <tannerop@i......nvalid.com> wrote in message
news:6dnbsdF...@mid.individual.net...
Hi, thanks for the advice.... I'm using a corded drill, I'm not sure of the
speed but a couple of years ago it was one of the better ones, not a Lidl
special!
Im buying some good quality bits tomorrow, hopefully that'll make the
difference.
mentalguy2004
<tin...@isbd.co.uk> wrote in message
news:487678e4$0$78077$bed6...@news.gradwell.net...
What's the difference between an SDS drill and a "normal" one?
I picked the brown plugs as the screws looked about the right length to go
through the wood shelf supports, and have a decent amount going into the
wallplug as well. I'm going to be using the shelves for storing power tools,
tins of paint etc., and I wasn't sure if the smaller screws/plugs would be
enough.
Palindrome
A bit like the difference between driving to downtown Baghdad in a tank
compared to driving down in a hearse. No one that has used an SDS drill
will ever want to use anything else..
>
> I picked the brown plugs as the screws looked about the right length to go
> through the wood shelf supports, and have a decent amount going into the
> wallplug as well. I'm going to be using the shelves for storing power tools,
> tins of paint etc., and I wasn't sure if the smaller screws/plugs would be
> enough.
>
>
You really don't want a power tool landing on a stray child/ grand
child. I use the biggest fixings that will go through the holes in the
shelf brackets. It is easy to end up with an incredible amount of weight
on a shelf..
--
Sue
Harry Stottle
"mentalguy2004" <no...@none.com> wrote in message
news:b4vdk.209183$Ek2.1...@newsfe17.ams2...
brick.
The problem with drilling through plaster into bricks is that you don't
know where on the bricks the drill point will hit it, so if you drill
into the edge of the brick, it can push the drill to one side,
elongating the plaster hole, so sometimes a pilot hole can help, but not
very often in my experience.
Joker7
b4vdk.209183$Ek2.1...@newsfe17.ams2
Don't knock Lidi or other cheapo tools- I have a 3 year old DEWALT 12v
(about �240 at the time) where as the new line of 18v cheapo are better
.Names is not always the best ,you have to compare like for like.Then
there's the out lay- if you are only going to use a tool 3 times a year is
it money well spent to spend �100+ on a tool just to have it sitting on a
shelf.
Chris
--
Superb hosting & domain name deals http://dn-22.co.uk
The Handyman http://www.looker.me.uk
The FlatPack Man http://www.flat-pack.info
Palindrome
Yes, IMHO, buying quality tools is money well spent. They do a better,
easier and safer job on day 1 and are still doing that 20 years later.
If you only need one once in a blue moon, hire a quality tool when needed.
My electro pneumatic hammer drill is the whole dog and its puppies.
Because it is effortless to use, it is easier to control and thus a lot
safer. It is now decades old but works like new. The case even still
works like new.
--
Sue
tin...@isbd.co.uk
> >
> > I picked the brown plugs as the screws looked about the right length to go
> > through the wood shelf supports, and have a decent amount going into the
> > wallplug as well. I'm going to be using the shelves for storing power tools,
> > tins of paint etc., and I wasn't sure if the smaller screws/plugs would be
> > enough.
> >
> >
> You really don't want a power tool landing on a stray child/ grand
> child. I use the biggest fixings that will go through the holes in the
> shelf brackets. It is easy to end up with an incredible amount of weight
> on a shelf..
>
weight on the shelf that is). What *may* happen is that fixings can
pull out, preventing this is much more to do with having the right
sized holes with the right sized plugs and the right sized screws.
Even ordinary mild steel has a breaking strain (in most modes) of
something like 40 tons/sq.in. Thus a single 5mm screw would have a
breaking strain of something like 1.2 tons even if it was made of mild
steel, in reality most modern screws are stronger than that. So, as I
said, forget about the screws breaking.
The important thing is to drill holes such that your red (or whatever)
plugs are a snug fit and then use screws that are a tight fit in the
plugs. I use either 3.5 or 4mm screws in yellow plugs and 5mm screws
in red plugs. You should then have a fixing where the screw won't
pull out and ultimate failure is limited by the screw's strength.
I only use larger plugs when a hole has become enlarged or, possibly,
in really soft material.
--
Chris Green
Alang
I usually use a 3mm pilot drill just to get started. It's easier to
see your mark. Especially if your eyesight is getting a bit iffy :(
Joker7
4hwdk.195861$3p2....@fe10.news.easynews.com
As I said Sue like with like.
Of my experience witch is not a lot with the lower end ,if you are only
going to need a tool a couple of times a year- I would not spend heap on
power tools to hang a shelf or two.Hiring is good but can make a job
expensive.
Chris
Tanner-'op
-------------------------------------------------------
"No one that has used an SDS drill will ever want to use anything else.."
Not quite true Sue. SDS has its place in the wider look of things, but
sometimes a good, old fashioned hammer drill (or even one without a hammer)
is better - especially on cost if you only use it once-in-a-blue-moon or on
purely light, domestic work
>> I picked the brown plugs as the screws looked about the right length
>> to go through the wood shelf supports, and have a decent amount
>> going into the wallplug as well. I'm going to be using the shelves
>> for storing power tools, tins of paint etc., and I wasn't sure if
>> the smaller screws/plugs would be enough.
>>
>>
> You really don't want a power tool landing on a stray child/ grand
> child. I use the biggest fixings that will go through the holes in the
> shelf brackets. It is easy to end up with an incredible amount of
> weight on a shelf..
That's a little 'overkill' there really. Even a couple of 1" or 11/2" x No7
or No 8 steel screws used in a common or garden shelf bracket will withstand
a huge shear load - and there are far more instances of things falling off a
shelf because of poor stacking, than shelves collapsing because of
inadequate fixings.
Tanner-'op
Palindrome
I can only think "on cost" - but, even then, that doesn't stop the user
from /wanting/ to use an SDS drill :)
>
>>> I picked the brown plugs as the screws looked about the right length
>>> to go through the wood shelf supports, and have a decent amount
>>> going into the wallplug as well. I'm going to be using the shelves
>>> for storing power tools, tins of paint etc., and I wasn't sure if
>>> the smaller screws/plugs would be enough.
>>>
>>>
>> You really don't want a power tool landing on a stray child/ grand
>> child. I use the biggest fixings that will go through the holes in the
>> shelf brackets. It is easy to end up with an incredible amount of
>> weight on a shelf..
>
> That's a little 'overkill' there really. Even a couple of 1" or 11/2" x No7
> or No 8 steel screws used in a common or garden shelf bracket will withstand
> a huge shear load - and there are far more instances of things falling off a
> shelf because of poor stacking, than shelves collapsing because of
> inadequate fixings.
>
I'm more thinking about the risk of them pulling out, rather than
shearing. The larger diameter and the longer the plug (within limits),
the less load per unit area being placed on what may easily just be
plaster and mortar. Smaller screws for the bottom of the bracket, which
only has to take shear, is fine - but I do go for "overkill" for the
screws at the top, which are in tension as well as shear.
However, each to his or her own. It really does depend on what the shelf
is being fastened to and how deep the plaster is at that point.
--
Sue