Old rubber insulated wiring
Periproct
My mother house still has the original rubber insulated wiring. This quarter
her electricity bill was 7 times the amout of the same quarter the previous
year. Is it possible that the insulation could have broken down in such a
way as to draw current and not produce any obvious smoke/smell of burning
etc.
Secondly, is it OK for a competant but unqualified person to rewire a house
to a new consumer unit and then have a qualified electrician come in and
check the installation and swing the meter tails over to the new consumer
unit.
Obviously I'm aware a rewire is a matter of great urgency. At the first
opportunity I plan to turn off every eletrical appliance in the house and
see if the meter is still turning.
Regards
Andrew Gabriel
"Periproct" <Peri...@btinternet.com> writes:
> Two questions:-
>
> My mother house still has the original rubber insulated wiring. This quarter
> her electricity bill was 7 times the amout of the same quarter the previous
> year. Is it possible that the insulation could have broken down in such a
> way as to draw current and not produce any obvious smoke/smell of burning
> etc.
It seems unlikely. One place you can lose energy without noticing
is if it's leaking to a ground rod and therefore heating up the
earth. See if the meter is spinning. Switch everything off, and
then check if the meter is still spinning. If so, pull the circuit
fuses one by one and see which one is causing this.
Does she have any electric heating which might have been left on
unexpectedly? I managed to accidently leave a convector heat on
over the summer once in a rarely used room. Fortunately it was
on a thermostat, but I estimate that cost me £50.
> Secondly, is it OK for a competant but unqualified person to rewire a house
> to a new consumer unit and then have a qualified electrician come in and
> check the installation and swing the meter tails over to the new consumer
> unit.
Yes. You should probably find an electrician to do this before you
start though, and talk things through so you don't finish the job
and he then tells you you've done it all wrong. Obviously I can't
tell how competent you are, and to quote Rumsfeld, you don't know
how many unknown unknowns you have. Also the wiring regs are
changing quite substantially this year.
Don't fiddle with any of the rubber wire -- that can wreck it
instantly.
--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]
Periproct
"Andrew Gabriel" <and...@cucumber.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:478a2c58$0$516$5a6a...@news.aaisp.net.uk...
> In article <uaidnSQz66j...@bt.com>,
> "Periproct" <Peri...@btinternet.com> writes:
>> Two questions:-
>>
>> My mother house still has the original rubber insulated wiring. This
>> quarter
>> her electricity bill was 7 times the amout of the same quarter the
>> previous
>> year. Is it possible that the insulation could have broken down in such a
>> way as to draw current and not produce any obvious smoke/smell of burning
>> etc.
>
> It seems unlikely. One place you can lose energy without noticing
> is if it's leaking to a ground rod and therefore heating up the
> earth. See if the meter is spinning. Switch everything off, and
> then check if the meter is still spinning. If so, pull the circuit
> fuses one by one and see which one is causing this.
Thanks for the quick reply.
First job on my next day off work is to go round every room and switch off
everything and see what the meter does.
The whole three storey house has two fuses in old ceramic holders. I'm
guessing one for lighting and one for everything else.
> Does she have any electric heating which might have been left on
> unexpectedly? I managed to accidently leave a convector heat on
> over the summer once in a rarely used room. Fortunately it was
> on a thermostat, but I estimate that cost me £50.
This bill was £620 ish and working out the units used between the reading on
the last bill and current date showed she is heading for another £600 bill
this current quarter.
>> Secondly, is it OK for a competant but unqualified person to rewire a
>> house
>> to a new consumer unit and then have a qualified electrician come in and
>> check the installation and swing the meter tails over to the new consumer
>> unit.
>
> Yes. You should probably find an electrician to do this before you
> start though, and talk things through so you don't finish the job
> and he then tells you you've done it all wrong. Obviously I can't
> tell how competent you are, and to quote Rumsfeld, you don't know
> how many unknown unknowns you have. Also the wiring regs are
> changing quite substantially this year.
I rewired my own house way back when it didn't matter (or nobody cared).
> Don't fiddle with any of the rubber wire -- that can wreck it
> instantly.
That is my concern. My mother is 83 and wouldn't like the disruption of a
carpets and floorboards up rewire so I'd planned on surface mounted sockets
and trunking for the rings so I could leave existing wiring alone. Rather
that than the place going up in flames with my mother in it.
I'm fairly sure the lighting circuits are all in metal conduit so with time
and a fight I may be able to get new lighting wiring through that way. That
would be when I'd have to try and get power off and when the old wiring
insulation would crumble I guess.
ARWadworth
"Andrew Gabriel" <and...@cucumber.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:478a2c58$0$516$5a6a...@news.aaisp.net.uk...
> "Periproct" <Peri...@btinternet.com> writes:
>> Two questions:-
>>
>> My mother house still has the original rubber insulated wiring. This
>> quarter
>> her electricity bill was 7 times the amout of the same quarter the
>> previous
>> year. Is it possible that the insulation could have broken down in such a
>> way as to draw current and not produce any obvious smoke/smell of burning
>> etc.
>
> It seems unlikely. One place you can lose energy without noticing
> is if it's leaking to a ground rod and therefore heating up the
> earth. See if the meter is spinning. Switch everything off, and
> then check if the meter is still spinning. If so, pull the circuit
> fuses one by one and see which one is causing this.
Also double check her bills and check that there are no discrepancies due to
actual meter reading vs extimated ones. I once got an extra £180 bill when
my meter was eventually read. You should also try a quick test of the meter.
Turn everything off, check the meter is not spinning and then apply a known
load (say a 2kW heater) and count the number of revolutions the meter makes
against how many it should make. 10 minutes should be plenty of time to see
if it is spinning 7 times too fast.
> Does she have any electric heating which might have been left on
> unexpectedly? I managed to accidently leave a convector heat on
> over the summer once in a rarely used room. Fortunately it was
> on a thermostat, but I estimate that cost me £50.
Check the immersion heater is switched off.
>
>> Secondly, is it OK for a competant but unqualified person to rewire a
>> house
>> to a new consumer unit and then have a qualified electrician come in and
>> check the installation and swing the meter tails over to the new consumer
>> unit.
>
> Yes. You should probably find an electrician to do this before you
> start though, and talk things through so you don't finish the job
> and he then tells you you've done it all wrong. Obviously I can't
> tell how competent you are, and to quote Rumsfeld, you don't know
> how many unknown unknowns you have. Also the wiring regs are
> changing quite substantially this year.
You may find an electrician to do this, some will some won't. As Andrew
suggested, find the sparkie before you start.
> Don't fiddle with any of the rubber wire -- that can wreck it
> instantly.
Scary stuff rubber wire. Keep away from it.
Adam
Periproct
"ARWadworth" <adamwa...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:VGqij.76756$c_1....@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
I should be able to get that done Tuesday.
>> Does she have any electric heating which might have been left on
>> unexpectedly? I managed to accidently leave a convector heat on
>> over the summer once in a rarely used room. Fortunately it was
>> on a thermostat, but I estimate that cost me £50.
I've done a calculation on the last meter reading and the current meter
reading and she is heading for another £600 bill for this quarter so it is
consistent.
> Check the immersion heater is switched off.
I'm fairly sure that goes on each morning for something like 15 minutes
although it could get forgotten occasionally.
>>> Secondly, is it OK for a competant but unqualified person to rewire a
>>> house
>>> to a new consumer unit and then have a qualified electrician come in and
>>> check the installation and swing the meter tails over to the new
>>> consumer
>>> unit.
>>
>> Yes. You should probably find an electrician to do this before you
>> start though, and talk things through so you don't finish the job
>> and he then tells you you've done it all wrong. Obviously I can't
>> tell how competent you are, and to quote Rumsfeld, you don't know
>> how many unknown unknowns you have. Also the wiring regs are
>> changing quite substantially this year.
>
> You may find an electrician to do this, some will some won't. As Andrew
> suggested, find the sparkie before you start.
I'll work on that one. I'm really concerned about the place going up in
flames and want to get something done ASAP.
>> Don't fiddle with any of the rubber wire -- that can wreck it
>> instantly.
And from the point you touch it you are without any power at all I guess.
Particularly with only two fuses supplying the whole three storey house
there is little chance of isolating much.
ARWadworth
"Periproct" <Peri...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:uLqdnf313-TeoRfa...@bt.com...
> I'll work on that one. I'm really concerned about the place going up in
> flames and want to get something done ASAP.
With only 2 fuses you do not have much to go on. Even with rubber wiring
there used to be a seperate fuse for the immersion on most installations.
Good luck and let us know what you find/decide to do.
Adam
Palindrome
If it is an old terrace house or semi-detached, the first place I would
look was up in the loft.. Some of these properties have little or
nothing to stop a neighbour from walking into the neighbour's loft and
branching off one house's wiring and running their own house lighting
off it.. They may have a disconnect switch and only use her electricity
every second day or so.
The other thing to look for is whether she has had a run of estimated
readings over the last year or so - but an actual reading for the
quarter with a high bill. It is very easy for estimated use to fall way
behind actual use and a big catch-up bill is the result.
It is highly unlikely that faulty wiring will put the electricity bill
up significantly. Burn the house down, yes.
The other, very remote, possibility is that the meter has gone wonky.
You can test this yourself by switching everything off (so the
consumption stops) and putting in a standard load (eg a 100W lamp, 1kW
fan heater) and timing how long it takes to clock up one increment.
--
Sue
Neil - Usenet
"Palindrome" <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:_Grij.383724$WF3.2...@fe06.news.easynews.com...
get or borrow one of these :-)
http://www.maplin.co.uk/Free_UK_Delivery/Clamp_Meters_20839.htm
http://www.maplin.co.uk/Free_UK_Delivery/Clamp_Meters_20839.htm
Periproct
"Neil - Usenet" <use...@SPAMblueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:G5sij.192735$S37.1...@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
Periproct
"Palindrome" <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:_Grij.383724$WF3.2...@fe06.news.easynews.com...
>> Two questions:-
>>
>> My mother house still has the original rubber insulated wiring. This
>> quarter her electricity bill was 7 times the amout of the same quarter
>> the previous year. Is it possible that the insulation could have broken
>> down in such a way as to draw current and not produce any obvious
>> smoke/smell of burning etc.
>>
>> Secondly, is it OK for a competant but unqualified person to rewire a
>> house to a new consumer unit and then have a qualified electrician come
>> in and check the installation and swing the meter tails over to the new
>> consumer unit.
>>
>> Obviously I'm aware a rewire is a matter of great urgency. At the first
>> opportunity I plan to turn off every eletrical appliance in the house and
>> see if the meter is still turning.
>>
> New neighbours, perhaps?
>
> If it is an old terrace house or semi-detached, the first place I would
> look was up in the loft.. Some of these properties have little or nothing
> to stop a neighbour from walking into the neighbour's loft and branching
> off one house's wiring and running their own house lighting off it.. They
> may have a disconnect switch and only use her electricity every second day
> or so.
I think her neighbours wouldn't have a clue how to do that. Too busy
wondering whether to spend the weekend on the yacht or at the cottage in the
country. (My late Dad worked hard to get a great house).
> The other thing to look for is whether she has had a run of estimated
> readings over the last year or so - but an actual reading for the quarter
> with a high bill. It is very easy for estimated use to fall way behind
> actual use and a big catch-up bill is the result.
I will check but since my Dad died my Mum isn't out much and I'm fairly sure
she's had a run of non estimated readings.
> It is highly unlikely that faulty wiring will put the electricity bill up
> significantly. Burn the house down, yes.
That's my big concern.
> The other, very remote, possibility is that the meter has gone wonky. You
> can test this yourself by switching everything off (so the consumption
> stops) and putting in a standard load (eg a 100W lamp, 1kW fan heater) and
> timing how long it takes to clock up one increment.
I'm going to have to get the calculator out. :-) I'll give that a try
Tuesday.
Cicero
==================================
Since the wiring is so bad it would pay you to install some temporary
wiring for safe use so that you can disconnect all the old rubber stuff
immediately. Install just enough to supply essentials to give yourself
breathing space and peace of mind.
I did this some years ago when the house I'd just bought needed a complete
rewire.
Cic.
--
===================================
Using Ubuntu Linux
Windows shown the door
===================================
Martin
>
< snip >
>
> Thanks for the quick reply.
> First job on my next day off work is to go round every room and switch off
> everything and see what the meter does.
.
.
> This bill was £620 ish and working out the units used between the reading
> on the last bill and current date showed she is heading for another £600
> bill this current quarter.
You've obviously checked the meter and done your own sums... It strikes me
as a phenomenal amount, even for a winter quarter with no other energy
source (gas, oil etc). Though, AFAICS, you don't say how large the house
is - and whether in the coldest part of UK....
Clearly, and as others here have said,checking no unit-hungry appliance is
permanently on, and that no-one else is tapping into your Mum's supply, are
things to check urgently.
But there's something else I want to add, if not too cheeky, re....
> My mother is 83 and wouldn't like the disruption of a carpets and
> floorboards up rewire so I'd planned on surface mounted sockets and
> trunking for the rings so I could leave existing wiring alone.
Is there any way your Mum would be prepared to move out for a short period -
maybe holiday, visit friends etc...? It seems to me that a complete re-wire
this day and age, without flush mounting everything, and channelling in all
cabling, is not a financially sound proposition. Yes, it will cost more in
the short-run... but how much more satisfying and rewarding...?
Hope that doesn't seem too impertinent or mercenary a comment....
--
Martin
Periproct
"Martin" <n...@barrier.ngngng.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:Lovij.437$WJ....@newsfe4-win.ntli.net...
>
> "Periproct" <Peri...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
> news:NZOdnfGwhp8zqxfa...@bt.com...
>>
> < snip >
>>
>> Thanks for the quick reply.
>> First job on my next day off work is to go round every room and switch
>> off
>> everything and see what the meter does.
> .
> .
> .
>> This bill was £620 ish and working out the units used between the reading
>> on the last bill and current date showed she is heading for another £600
>> bill this current quarter.
>
> You've obviously checked the meter and done your own sums... It strikes me
> as a phenomenal amount, even for a winter quarter with no other energy
> source (gas, oil etc). Though, AFAICS, you don't say how large the house
> is - and whether in the coldest part of UK....
It's a three storey, five bedroom terraced house in SW London. So - far from
the coldest place in the country and not a lot of heat loss through the
party walls. Also the majority of heating is gas fires although there are a
couple of electric heaters on low. But they have always been running.
> Clearly, and as others here have said,checking no unit-hungry appliance is
> permanently on, and that no-one else is tapping into your Mum's supply,
> are things to check urgently.
I'm thinking the cheap clamp meter from Maplin on one of the meter tails
while I switch everything in the house off will be a good indication.
I don't think there is any way anybody could be tapping into the supply.
The only thing that used to only be turned on during the day but is now
running 24 hours is a pond pump.
> But there's something else I want to add, if not too cheeky, re....
>
>> My mother is 83 and wouldn't like the disruption of a carpets and
>> floorboards up rewire so I'd planned on surface mounted sockets and
>> trunking for the rings so I could leave existing wiring alone.
>
> Is there any way your Mum would be prepared to move out for a short
> period -
> maybe holiday, visit friends etc...? It seems to me that a complete
> re-wire
> this day and age, without flush mounting everything, and channelling in
> all
> cabling, is not a financially sound proposition. Yes, it will cost more
> in
> the short-run... but how much more satisfying and rewarding...?
> Hope that doesn't seem too impertinent or mercenary a comment....
Not at all. I had thought of packing her off to my brothers in Yorkshire but
any upheaval streses her.
Following my fathers death she keeps saying "when I go they'll only rip
everything out and start again". (I wish she wouldn't keep saying that). At
the risk of sounding horribley brutal myself, the wiring will be ripped out
by the new owners sometime in the future. Plus the redecorating involved.
Plus the need for speed. Plus she can keep appliances running on the old
wiring while I tackle the new.