Je$u$ Chri$t $ave$ Mini$trie$
David
Chri$t $ave$ Mini$trie$.
Is this really the type of propaganda that God wishes?
Think of what has gone before!
Tax fraud ministries, pyramid scheme ministries, fraudulent faith
healing ministries, all in the name of God and all making a quick buck
for the supposed preacher.
This turns people away from God.
David
People converted - negative.
Money in the bank - positive.
Poorer Christians - all over the place.
Routerider
"David" <da...@hotmail.com> wrote ...
You have to understand...Jason is after "persecution points". The more
disgusting his behaviour, the more people will put him in his place...Jason
apparently believes he'll get rewarded in heaven for acting ignorant on
earth.
Verne
"David" <da...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:7ac69154.04010...@posting.google.com...
already and I have just not seen it. I have not been on the net much of late
so would you please point by point prove the accusations you have just made
against Jason. If anything you have just said is true you need to spread the
word, as frauds need to be rooted out. And of course if you are simply
slandering Jason you need to be rooted out.
Uncle Davey
Użytkownik "Verne" <No...@nospam.com,> napisał w wiadomości
news:vv95q02...@corp.supernews.com...
100%
Uncle Davey
Bible Bob
wrote:
With regard to Jason's advertising of his book on Usenet. Jason posts
via Roadrunner (as do I) which does allow some advertising so long as
it is not crossposted to many groups. So I do not believe that he is
in violation of any terms of service agreement. However, roadrunner
is fickle and interprets things one way one day and another way
another day or several different ways on the same day (depends on who
answers the phone).
BB
David
> "David" <da...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:7ac69154.04010...@posting.google.com...
> > This newsgroups has become the partners and patrons society of Je$u$
> > Chri$t $ave$ Mini$trie$.
> >
> > Is this really the type of propaganda that God wishes?
> >
> > Think of what has gone before!
Alright, on rereading this sentence I can see how this has been
misinterpreted, sorry for the confusion. I mean the other ‘so called'
Christian ministries that have gone before, NOT other Jason Gastrich
ministries.
> > Tax fraud ministries,
Jimmy Swaggart
Rev Moon
Dr Hovind
Jim Bakker
> > pyramid scheme ministries,
David Whitfield and others, Greater Ministries International
> > fraudulent faith healing ministries,
Robert Tilton Ministries
Peter Poppoff
Rev. W.V. Grant.
> > all in the name of God and all making a quick buck
> > for the supposed preacher.
> >
> > This turns people away from God.
> >
<snip>
> David that a serious accusation. Its possible that you have gone over this
> already and I have just not seen it. I have not been on the net much of late
> so would you please point by point prove the accusations you have just made
> against Jason. <snip>
Sorry for the confusion these are not accusation against Jason
Gastrich. They are examples of religious scams by others. However,
when I see people peddling religion, Jason is always posting about his
book in this newsgroup, why shouldn't I be a bit cynical?
Uncle Davey has mentioned that Jason's book is online, however, I have
not seen it online does someone know the link? Shouldn't the online
version be offered as prominently as the paper version?
This is not about whether I can afford the book. It is about what
happens to the profits from the book. Jason Gastrich is in a position
to prey on people who are innocent enough to trust him. I'm sorry if
this offends you but I am cynical.
David
Verne
I understand and cynicism is not a bad thing when one is careful before
making accusations. I can see that you did not intend to put Jason in the
company you did. Merely addressing the possibility of fraud is not necessary
a bad thing. But in a public forum and in the same sentence as some serious
bad apples you unintentionally went to far. Like you I always question were
my money will go and personally I tend to put it in the hands of those I
have personal knowledge of.
Prosperity theory is a real problem and those that use it for their own gain
need to be shown for what they are. Frauds who give the followers of Christ
a very bad name.
Dr. Jason Gastrich
All of the money from book sales goes directly to JCSM. The money goes back
into the ministry.
JG
Verne
"Dr. Jason Gastrich" <ne...@jcsm.org> wrote in message
news:vtmJb.39370$nG3....@twister.socal.rr.com...
And ministries need to be supported. Strange how many think that a ministry
would not need money or should not need money. I have never seen you go into
the false doctrine of prosperity theology = give the Lord (me) money and you
will be $blessed$.
Dr. Jason Gastrich
No, that's terrible theology. The "name-it-and-claim-it" doctrine. Also
called the "blab it and grab it" doctrine. "You got a need? Plant a seed!"
No, that's not the way it works. God doesn't want His people simply giving
in order to get. That's manipulation and using God for one's own gain.
We need to give from our love of God and His people. If we give with a pure
heart, then God will bless and reward us.
In Him,
Jason
David
> "Dr. Jason Gastrich" <ne...@jcsm.org> wrote in message
> news:vtmJb.39370$nG3....@twister.socal.rr.com...
> > Verne wrote:
> > > "David" <da...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > > news:7ac69154.04010...@posting.google.com...
> > >> happens to the profits from the book. Jason Gastrich is in a
> > >> position to prey on people who are innocent enough to trust him.
> > >> I'm sorry if this offends you but I am cynical.
> > > Prosperity theory is a real problem and those that use it for their
> > > own gain need to be shown for what they are. Frauds who give the
> > > followers of Christ a very bad name.
> > All of the money from book sales goes directly to JCSM. The money goes
> > back into the ministry.
>
> And ministries need to be supported. Strange how many think that a ministry
> would not need money or should not need money. I have never seen you go into
> the false doctrine of prosperity theology = give the Lord (me) money and you
> will be $blessed$.
I might add, I don't just have a problem with religion in this regard.
I have a problem with CEO salaries for organizations such as the red
cross. The overheads for many charities are way to high.
David
David
> Verne wrote:
> > "Dr. Jason Gastrich" <ne...@jcsm.org> wrote in message
> >>> Prosperity theory is a real problem and those that use it for their
> >>> own gain need to be shown for what they are. Frauds who give the
> >>> followers of Christ a very bad name.
> >>
> >> All of the money from book sales goes directly to JCSM. The money
> >> goes back into the ministry.
> >>
> > ministry would not need money or should not need money. I have never
> > seen you go into the false doctrine of prosperity theology = give the
> > Lord (me) money and you will be $blessed$.
>
> No, that's terrible theology. The "name-it-and-claim-it" doctrine. Also
> called the "blab it and grab it" doctrine. "You got a need? Plant a seed!"
> No, that's not the way it works. God doesn't want His people simply giving
> in order to get. That's manipulation and using God for one's own gain.
>
> We need to give from our love of God and His people. If we give with a pure
> heart, then God will bless and reward us.
>
> In Him,
> Jason
But you never miss a chance to cash in on the publicity that you
engineer, do you? So far all your preaching is indistinguishable from
marketing. It is perfectly valid to call you on this.
You only listen and talk with your buddies. As soon as anyone
criticises you on theology or your business approach you become deaf.
I seem to remember that Jesus sought out people who disagreed with him
and then had a conversation. Your strategy is seek, promote your
book, then run away.
Worse the people you attempt to convert are often those who are
already in the flock. You're not trying to convert anyone, you're
trying to get a large group of followers from other ministries.
Preferably followers who will pay to use your site and buy your book.
Business 101, advertise the product to a core audience. In this case
not atheists but other Christians.
Only Gastrich knows his true motives. In ten years we will all know.
David
Uncle Davey
Uzytkownik "David" <da...@hotmail.com> napisal w wiadomosci
news:7ac69154.04011...@posting.google.com...
This is hardly fair because when he goes into atheist, wiccan and
creation-rejectance groups, then he gets told off for not sticking to the
Christians groups. You're now saying he sticks to the Christian groups. The
guy can't win, can he?
You seem to have a big problem with ministers being in any way maintained
out of their work. Have you raised the issue with your local episcopalian
bishop or roman catholic priest, or is it only the evangelicals you worry
about?
Uncle Davey
David
> "David" <da...@hotmail.com> wrote
I don't have a problem with ministers who minister. When Jason
ministers he's as good as anyone, however, he also loves to sell his
book. Selling and ministering at the same time is unseemly.
Another problem I have is that he is continually blocking out people
who do not agree with him, theist or atheist. I'll give you credit
Davey, you always argue your point to the end. Not only that but you
seem to listen too. I've seen you take stock on your really dumb
positions and re-evaluate them. I have not seen Jason do that. (By
the way, I still think the socks are a poor way to discuss an issue.
Everything gets trivialized). Anyway on...
Gastrich gets all bent out of shape if you tell him his research is
poor. Yet, quiet frankly, his research performance over the last two
weeks has been abysmal. His logic has been abysmal. He has a
terrible track record in lies (as well as perpetuating lies) and
civility (rude with a smile but it's still rude). Sometimes I really
wonder how he even got a degree. He really thinks research is "I'll
read until I find the quote I want". He does not care if the quote is
a misquote, out of context or plain wrong. His attitude is "If it's
there on the page and God let me see it, it must be right.". Moses he
is NOT.
He idolizes Hovind and Johnson while at the same time ICR and Aig
can't get far enough away from Hovind. What's going on there?
Matthew 15:14, "And if the blind lead the blind, both will fall into
a ditch." Well Jason's ditch is looking a lot like the Grand Canyon
right now.
I think he has a business brain. That's why he behaves the way he
does. He could and should apply that brain to higher levels of
critical thinking. Who gives a damn about Pi in the bible. What was
all that bullshit numerology he was spewing before. It was another of
his hero's Missler's garbage. Again, no critical thinking he just
spews out the quotes he gets from his creationist literature. Anyone
who was really bright would have realized that the Pi= 3 therefore the
bible is in error crap is a straw man. He fell for it, so how bright
can he be? As I said before, he has a business brain. He knows how
to market, he knows how to sell, he does not know how to think but he
can reguri-post all day long. When he's out of diapers will Hovind,
Missler and Johnson still be holding his hand?
Anyway you get the idea. I think Jason could be a leader if he chose
to open his mind. I'm not saying he has to believe in evolution but
for crying out loud he hangs out with Hovind. Even mainstream
creationists don't do that! One day he'll grow up. When that day
comes I may respect his ministry. Presently, it looks like a business
and sounds like a business. In fact, not that dissimilar to Hovinds
business, strange...
I needed to get that off my chest. David
P.S. By the way is talk origins always so crazy? What with yourself,
Charles, Schenk, Glen, Horn and Flank, it's a dog house.
Uncle Davey
Uzytkownik "David" <da...@hotmail.com> napisal w wiadomosci
news:7ac69154.04011...@posting.google.com...
If Jason has a business brain, and were only after making money, then there
would be better ways to do it that the meagre living he can possibly get
from what he does. He must be putting pre-existant money into his ministry
rather than making anything from it.
I'm a businessman, and I make money. I make it and I help my clients make
it.
I wouldn't swap an accounting and business consultancy practice for a pulpit
and a box with a slot in it, not from a material perspective, I can tell
you.
I really am about making money, and I've got a good nose for who's making it
and who isn't. This guy's got to make some sort of living. All the other
ministers do.
Uncle Davey
David
Well it's certainly not worth the flack. Who should I say Flank?
> I really am about making money, and I've got a good nose for who's making it
> and who isn't. This guy's got to make some sort of living. All the other
> ministers do.
>
> Uncle Davey
You're right. I am a strong cynic so I should give him a chance. He
still need to be a better scholar though, he leaves himself open to
criticism. Sometimes his arguments are so weak it's like shooting fish
in a barrel. David
Dr. Jason Gastrich
No. I'm sure I miss all kinds of opportunities because I do not look for
them.
>> So far all your preaching is indistinguishable
>> from marketing. It is perfectly valid to call you on this.
I find this hard to believe; especially if you've visited http://jcsm.org.
With all due respect, you can call me on anything, but until I know more
than your first name, I'll have to take this criticism with a grain of salt.
>> You only listen and talk with your buddies. As soon as anyone
>> criticises you on theology or your business approach you become deaf.
>> I seem to remember that Jesus sought out people who disagreed with
>> him and then had a conversation. Your strategy is seek, promote your
>> book, then run away.
As Davey says below, this is an absurd accusation. And these kinds of wild
accusations are precisely why I don't "stick around" and entertain the
mockers.
I've always been happy to discuss issue with respectful people.
>> Worse the people you attempt to convert are often those who are
>> already in the flock. You're not trying to convert anyone, you're
>> trying to get a large group of followers from other ministries.
>> Preferably followers who will pay to use your site and buy your book.
>> Business 101, advertise the product to a core audience. In this case
>> not atheists but other Christians.
I don't think you know who I'm trying to convert.
Nobody EVERY pays to use my site. We have over 60,000 web pages and they
are all free to the public.
I don't want any followers. I just want to encourage people with the Word
of God.
Jason
>> Only Gastrich knows his true motives. In ten years we will all know.
>
>> David
>
> This is hardly fair because when he goes into atheist, wiccan and
> creation-rejectance groups, then he gets told off for not sticking to
> the Christians groups. You're now saying he sticks to the Christian
> groups. The guy can't win, can he?
>
> You seem to have a big problem with ministers being in any way
> maintained out of their work. Have you raised the issue with your
> local episcopalian bishop or roman catholic priest, or is it only the
> evangelicals you worry about?
>
> Uncle Davey
--
Jesus Christ Saves Ministries
http://www.jcsm.org
Over 60,000 web pages!
John 8:36 reads, "Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be
free indeed."
Galatians 5:1 reads, "Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which
Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of
bondage."
ICQ#: 20731140
AIM: MrJasonGastrich
YIM: Jesus_Saved_Jason
MSN: jasong...@hotmail.com
Uncle Davey
Uzytkownik "David" <da...@hotmail.com> napisal w wiadomosci
news:7ac69154.0401...@posting.google.com...
Heh. Good old Lenny 'Thorn-in-the-" Flank.
I've got my flank jacket on.
>
> > I really am about making money, and I've got a good nose for who's
making it
> > and who isn't. This guy's got to make some sort of living. All the other
> > ministers do.
> >
> > Uncle Davey
>
> You're right. I am a strong cynic so I should give him a chance. He
> still need to be a better scholar though, he leaves himself open to
> criticism. Sometimes his arguments are so weak it's like shooting fish
> in a barrel. David
Whereas what you said about lawyers earlier was bang on the button.
Uncle Davey
R.Schenck
> I needed to get that off my chest. David
>
> P.S. By the way is talk origins always so crazy? What with yourself,
> Charles, Schenk, Glen, Horn and Flank, it's a dog house.
er? was i acting in an unusual manner?
R.Schenck
if anything he is out flanking the creationists. they try to address
some made up issue that only causes a problem in their own heads, and
he attacks their weak flanks, 'whats the theory of creatioism', 'who
made you god' etc.
Charles C.
When I read that I thought that's an odd question for someone that has
been posting in T.O. for almost 3 years and has posted in several of
those crazy threads. Why would a regular poster in talk.origins ask if
it is "always so crazy"?
I guess that he missed the hundreds of sock puppetry posts.
Charles
Remove the underscores to email.
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Charles C.
>
>"Dr. Jason Gastrich" <ne...@jcsm.org> wrote in message
>news:vtmJb.39370$nG3....@twister.socal.rr.com...
>> Verne wrote:
>> > "David" <da...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> > news:7ac69154.04010...@posting.google.com...
>> >> "Verne" <No...@nospam.com,> wrote in message
>> > news:<vv95q02...@corp.supernews.com>...
>> >>> "David" <da...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> >>> news:7ac69154.04010...@posting.google.com...
>> >>>> This newsgroups has become the partners and patrons society of
>> >>>> Je$u$ Chri$t $ave$ Mini$trie$.
<SNIP>
>> >
>> > Prosperity theory is a real problem and those that use it for their
>> > own gain need to be shown for what they are. Frauds who give the
>> > followers of Christ a very bad name.
>>
>> All of the money from book sales goes directly to JCSM. The money goes
>>back into the ministry.
>>
>> JG
>
>And ministries need to be supported. Strange how many think that a ministry
>would not need money or should not need money. I have never seen you go into
>the false doctrine of prosperity theology = give the Lord (me) money and you
>will be $blessed$.
Then you must have missed:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
:Subject: Re: Tithing Question
:Message-ID: <FM1eb.12844$Ak3....@twister.socal.rr.com>
:Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 21:48:21 GMT
labmgr wrote (Al):
:: I'm really interested to know if people think you should still tithe
::even if the income you receive each month isn't even enough
::to pay for your necessities.
Jason Gastrich responds:
:Hi Al,
:Thanks for your message.
:I think it is more important to tithe than pay credit card bills. I think
:you will be more blessed for giving to God than Visa.
:JG
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Of course you don't "give" to VISA because you are paying them back
the money that they "gave" you and that you promised to return. Not
returning their money would be stealing. So not only is Jason telling
them that if you give to the Lord that you will be blessed, but he is
recommending that you steal so you can give to the Lord to be ble$$ed.
Now that it is in your mind to give to the Lord instead of returning
the money you promised to return maybe the following posts will guide
you in the "proper" direction:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Tithing Question
Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2003 00:48:46 GMT
Message-ID: <Ovpeb.16923$T46....@twister.socal.rr.com>
P.S. While I'm mentioning this, please see http://vision.jcsm.org and
considering giving to Jesus Christ Saves Ministries. JCSM is a
501(c)(3), non-profit organization with a dynamic ministry to the lost
and hungry. Today, unfortunately, we had one donator stop giving
because his business is hurting. This was a big blow to us and him,
so we pray his business recovers and more people can support JCSM.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 09:53:19 GMT
Message-ID: <jASeb.39223$5z....@twister.socal.rr.com>
I'm concerned that you don't know of any ministries worth supporting.
Is this what you really mean to say? How about Compassion
International? JCSM? Koinonia House? Billy Graham? Calvary Chapel?
Answers in Genesis?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Uncle Davey
"Charles C." <charles_casey@opt_online.net> wrote in message
news:s9oh00tdgfr89ca31...@4ax.com...
I'd sooner give to JCSM than Billy Graham, that's for sure. Billy Graham was
associated with the registered, ie. communist controlled Church in Soviet
times. The unregistered brethren I know always couldn't understand that.
I certainly believe myself that giving liberally means that you're more
likely to receive in return, with some percentage on top, even. I think any
believer in God wouldn't have a hard time believing that. The only remaining
question is, who to give to?
Uncle Davey
Uncle Davey
David
> >>
> >> P.S. By the way is talk origins always so crazy? What with yourself,
> >> Charles, Schenk, Glen, Horn and Flank, it's a dog house.
> >
> >er? was i acting in an unusual manner?
>
> When I read that I thought that's an odd question for someone that has
> been posting in T.O. for almost 3 years and has posted in several of
> those crazy threads. Why would a regular poster in talk.origins ask if
> it is "always so crazy"?
>
> I guess that he missed the hundreds of sock puppetry posts.
>
Actually I wouldn't call myself a regular. I have posted now and then
on topics that interest me. I usually don't follow the threads which
deteriorate. However, this time I did, and I was surprised at how
crazy it got. In fact, in general it seems crazier than before. Why
is everyone attacking Stew Dean, Wilkins killfiled Horn etc.? That's
rhetorical, I don't really want to know.
By the way I enjoy your posts (R Schenck and Charles S) i didn't mean
it as a personal insult.
I have to say that Gastrich's continual BS really got to me. More so
than other creationists I have observed at T.O. That is why I hung
around. David
Dr. Jason Gastrich
Would you mind posting my entire message to Al? GG and RR aren't
carrying it any longer, but I'd like to see the context.
I wasn't recommending stealing. I also wasn't recommending that a
person avoid paying credit bills. I was suggesting that a person
should do both: tithe and pay credit bills.
If you would have read Al's message, I think you would have seen that
he wanted to pay off his credit bills and was wondering if he should
do both tithe and pay them. I emphasized the importance of tithing;
regardless of how many bills he had.
Sincerely,
Jason
Sean McHugh
> Charles C. <charles_casey@opt_online.net> wrote
> > On Fri, 2 Jan 2004 15:47:53 -0800, "Verne" <No...@nospam.com,> wrote:
> > >"Dr. Jason Gastrich" <ne...@jcsm.org> wrote
> > >> Verne wrote:
> > >> > "David" <da...@hotmail.com> wrote
> > >> >> "Verne" <No...@nospam.com,> wrote
> > >> >>> "David" <da...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > >> >>> news:7ac69154.04010...@posting.google.com...
> > >> >>>> This newsgroups has become the partners and patrons society of
> > >> >>>> Je$u$ Chri$t $ave$ Mini$trie$.
> <SNIP>
> > >> > Prosperity theory is a real problem and those that use it for their
> > >> > own gain need to be shown for what they are. Frauds who give the
> > >> > followers of Christ a very bad name.
> > >> All of the money from book sales goes directly to JCSM. The money goes
> > >> back into the ministry.
And what kinds of nice stuff get included under the term "ministry"?
> > >> JG
> > >And ministries need to be supported. Strange how many think that a ministry
> > >would not need money or should not need money. I have never seen you go into
> > >the false doctrine of prosperity theology = give the Lord (me) money and you
> > >will be $blessed$.
> > Then you must have missed:
> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > :Subject: Re: Tithing Question
> > :Message-ID: <FM1eb.12844$Ak3....@twister.socal.rr.com>
> > :Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 21:48:21 GMT
> > labmgr wrote (Al):
> > :: I'm really interested to know if people think you should still tithe
> > ::even if the income you receive each month isn't even enough
> > ::to pay for your necessities.
> > Jason Gastrich responds:
> > :Hi Al,
> > :Thanks for your message.
> > :I think it is more important to tithe than pay credit card bills. I think
> > :you will be more blessed for giving to God than Visa.
> > :JG
> > Of course you don't "give" to VISA because you are paying them back
> > the money that they "gave" you and that you promised to return. Not
> > returning their money would be stealing. So not only is Jason telling
> > them that if you give to the Lord that you will be blessed, but he is
> > recommending that you steal so you can give to the Lord to be ble$$ed.
> Would you mind posting my entire message to Al? GG and RR aren't
> carrying it any longer, but I'd like to see the context.
> I wasn't recommending stealing. I also wasn't recommending that a
> person avoid paying credit bills. I was suggesting that a person
> should do both: tithe and pay credit bills.
Whether or not you would also recommend that they pay their credit
bills is not the point here. Here is what you said:
::: I think it is more important to tithe than pay credit card bills.
::: I think you will be more blessed for giving to God than Visa.
There you are clearly giving priority to tithing and recommending that
if you can't afford to tithe and pay your bills, then just tithe. It
is the most irresponsible and shady advice I have every seen coming
from one advising on moral responsibilities. It is effectively saying,
if you can't tithe with your own money, then use someone else's. There
is no way you can redeem the comment. All you can do is withdraw it
and admit to being wrong. Of course, that's not going to happen.
I think that whoever came up with the subject header for this thread,
was right on the money.
Sean McHugh
"The most sensitive part of man is not his skin but his wallet."
(Adolf Hitler)
John Drayton
<snip>
> >
> > Then you must have missed:
> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > :Subject: Re: Tithing Question
> > :Message-ID: <FM1eb.12844$Ak3....@twister.socal.rr.com>
> > :Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 21:48:21 GMT
> >
> > labmgr wrote (Al):
> > :: I'm really interested to know if people think you should still tithe
> > ::even if the income you receive each month isn't even enough
> > ::to pay for your necessities.
> >
> > Jason Gastrich responds:
> > :Hi Al,
>
> > :Thanks for your message.
>
> > :I think it is more important to tithe than pay credit card bills.
<snip>
> Would you mind posting my entire message to Al? GG and RR aren't
> carrying it any longer, but I'd like to see the context.
Why?
When you were taken to task for using out of context
quotes regarding evolution, you said:
(in http://makeashorterlink.com/?H2EC13237)
Jason said:
Back to the quotes in question. The quotes were
uttered from the quoted evolutionists. If you don't
like what they say, then perhaps you should take it
up with them. Even though they were usually making
other points and using those quotes to illustrate
something else, they still spoke those words and
they cannot be interpreted any differently.
So how can any context be relevant here? After all,
you "still spoke those words and they cannot be interpreted
any differently"
<snip>
--
John Drayton
Dr. Jason Gastrich
> bills is not the point here. Here is what you said:
>
>>>> I think it is more important to tithe than pay credit card bills.
>>>> I think you will be more blessed for giving to God than Visa.
As I already said, this was a misquote. I've already explained my quote,
Sean. Did you read my explanation? It doesn't look like it. You are
telling me what I meant even after I've told you what I meant. Now that is
disingenuous.
I challenge someone to find the original post of mine to Al and repost the
whole message. The way those two sentences are structured (above), one on
top of the other, it doesn't look like I made them in succession and I
surely don't think I made them without clarifying remarks. I cannot find
the original post. Nonetheless, I've already explained my intent.
Jason
Dr. Jason Gastrich
I'm sure this goes without saying, but "Charles C." has misrepresented
my words by pasting together a variety of partial things that I said.
Quite malicious, Charles. I think you need another hobby.
Jason
Uncle Davey
Uzytkownik "Dr. Jason Gastrich" <ne...@jcsm.org> napisal w wiadomosci
news:cc651a96.04020...@posting.google.com...
He's a nasty piece of work. But people are still stroking his head and
consoling him from when I shared a few leetle thoughts with him a while
back.
Uncle Davey
Uncle Davey
Użytkownik "Dr. Jason Gastrich" <ne...@jcsm.org> napisał w wiadomości
news:DbpVb.10104$ow4....@twister.socal.rr.com...
This reminds me of the passage in Mark 14, I think it is, when people were
getting upset with the woman who brought a box of spikenard and anointed the
head of Jesus. Everybody was telling her that she should have sold it for
300 pence and given it to the poor. Christ commended her for her putting Him
first, and doing what she could.
What we need to do is do what we can. Our poor, and our bills for consumer
spending, we can always pay off anytime we like, but when God provides us
with a way to serve him with our time or our substance, we should do what we
can.
Christ says that what that woman did, despite the fact that it left other
duties undone, would be preached as an honourable memorial to her for doing
what she could in a timely way, wherever the gospel would be preached.
Uncle Davey
www.usenetposts.com
Dr. Jason Gastrich
You're absolutely right. Jesus didn't tell us to forget our financial
obligations. However, He did prioritize kingdom work and God's will over
all else. "Give to Caesar what is Caesar's AND give to God what is His."
JG
Silver Blaze
>
> Christ says that what that woman did, despite the fact that it left other
> duties undone, would be preached as an honourable memorial to her for doing
> what she could in a timely way, wherever the gospel would be preached.
>
> Uncle Davey
I only got the last bit of your post
I take it that we are still talking about that Jackson womans right tit.
I must say I rather agree with your courageous stand in the face of so
much criticism from the wowser element.
Uncle Davey
Użytkownik "Silver Blaze" <pintag...@yourlocal.com> napisał w wiadomości
news:pintaguinness-0...@ppp184.dyn12.pacific.net.au...
I can tell it's a Sunday night.
Uncle Davey
Tom McDonald
This is Gastrich at his hypocritical best. He is all a-twitter
because he says someone quoted him out of context. He is even
more a-twitter because he has explained what he meant, and feels
unhappy that some may not accept his 'clarification'.
OTOH, he refuses to remove clearly out of context quotations
from his website, even when full context and explanations show
the mined quotations to be misleading, often to the point of
being flat-out lies.
He says he won't change the quotations because he "trusts" the
author of the book, Johnson. Now, when his ox is gored, he
whines that one should look into the context for themselves,
which suggests that he fully understands how trust need not enter
into a matter of fact.
Someone should tell Gastrich to butch up. If he wants to play
the game by his own rules, he can hardly claim a foul if someone
uses his rules against him. Well, on second thought, he probably
can. After all, Gastrich is the center of the world, and things
need to go his way or he just goes home.
Tom McDonald
Tom McDonald
One wonders how Gastrich thinks that what Charles C is said to
have done is worse than what Gastich has done. Gastrich has been
shown, conclusively, that quotations he has on his web site by
Phillip Johnson, lawyer, are at least as out of context as
anything anyone has done to Gastrich.
Where, you might ask, can you go to read Gastrich apologizing
for the unfair and partial quotations he has advocated by
maintaining them on his web site? Where can you go to see an
archived version of those pages, to compare them with the
corrected and explained quotations that he's posted to his web
site? IOW, where can we go to see Gastrich make an honest man of
himself on the issue of perpetuating out of context and
misleading quotations?
Why, nowhere. Mr. Gastrich has not seen fit to correct those
misrepresentations of other peoples' words. And why? He's told
us why: because he trusts Johnson, not the 'atheists' (many of
whom turn out to be theists, and even Christians) that have shown
him the errors in Johnson's quotemine.
And why should trust be an issue in this matter? It should not,
since it is a matter that can be directly observed by anyone who
compares the full context of the bits Johnson quotes with
Johnson's quotes. IOW, it is a matter that can be dealt with by
the very techniques creationists assert must be used in science;
direct observation of the ding an sich.
Mr. Gastrich seems to maintain that his dignity and his honor
demand scupulous care; but that the dignity and honor of others
is unimportant. There is a name for this, and it's one Mr.
Gastich has used often against honest folk who disagree with him.
Tom McDonald
Tom McDonald
Davey,
He's a careful and insightful piece of work. In fact, you had
to resort to some nasty bits of work yourself to appear to have
countered his arguments.
BTW, do you think it is correct for Jason to complain of being
misinterpreted via partial quotations while Jason himself keeps
Phillip Johnson's misinterpretive partial quotations on his web
site after being shown that they misrepresented their authors'
meanings? Or is there some different standard for quotemining of
evolutionary scientists?
Tom McDonald
Littleboy
@nohormelcharter.net says...
Please see http://tinyurl.com/3fr52 for "Dr." Gastrich's considered
opinion regarding quotations and context.
A brief excerpt for his explanation, "If the evolutionists quoted didn't
want their words to be used against the theory of evolution, then they
should have worded their statements differently. As it sits, they have
said a number of things against the ToE while speaking on a variety of
subjects. While these could be called out of context, they are also in
context."
Jason believes that any words, no matter the context of those quotes,
are fair game. The writer has the responsibility to phrase their words
so there is no possibility that they could be taken out of context. If
the writer fails in this task, it is not the responsibility of the
person quoting to make the context clear.
Considering this is "Dr." Gastrich's definition of fair play, I see no
reason that anyone needs to go beyond his own words, "I think it is more
important to tithe than pay credit card bills. I think you will be more
blessed for giving to God than Visa."
Game, set, match. Per the rules of the good "Dr." himself.
John Drayton
> Charles C. <charles_casey@opt_online.net> wrote in message news:<s9oh00tdgfr89ca31...@4ax.com>...
> > On Fri, 2 Jan 2004 15:47:53 -0800, "Verne" <No...@nospam.com,> wrote:
<snip>
> > :Thanks for your message.
>
> > :I think it is more important to tithe than pay credit card bills. I think
> > :you will be more blessed for giving to God than Visa.
>
> > :JG
<snip>
> I'm sure this goes without saying, but "Charles C." has misrepresented
> my words by pasting together a variety of partial things that I said.
> Quite malicious, Charles. I think you need another hobby.
>
> Jason
Well Jason, in you own words: you "made the statements in
question. I don't think the question of legitimacy is even
in dispute."
you "still spoke those words and they cannot be interpreted
any differently."
The words in quotes are what you said when the misrepresentation
and distortion of quotes on your website was pointed out to you.
You are not interested in truth at all. You are a monumental
hypocrit.
--
John Drayton
Don
wrote:
>Uncle Davey wrote:
>> Christ says that what that woman did, despite the fact that it left
>> other duties undone, would be preached as an honourable memorial to
>> her for doing what she could in a timely way, wherever the gospel
>> would be preached.
>>
>> Uncle Davey
>> www.usenetposts.com
>
>You're absolutely right. Jesus didn't tell us to forget our financial
>obligations. However, He did prioritize kingdom work and God's will over
>all else. "Give to Caesar what is Caesar's AND give to God what is His."
>
>JG
Hey Fake Doctor Goodwrench. Still touting your sham degree from that
school that YOU "accredited" the same day they gave you a degree???
I'm glad you didn't have to go to court and swear on that little bit
of "accreditation fabrication." In California, Perjury is punishable
by imprisonment in the state prison for two, three or four years.
Are you STILL POSTING FAKE POSTS under someone else's name? Or did
you bother to tell anyone here about your hypocrisy???
QUOTE======================
WARNING ABOUT JASON GASTRICH:
Jason Gastrich pretends that he upholds 'Christian principles'. But
in reality he is a liar and an admitted fraudster. He cannot be
trusted.
Gastrich admitted to forging an email under another person's name, and
defaming him by pretending that person admitted to being GAY:
This is the original (forged) message by Jason Gastrich:
BEGIN JASON'S FORGERY===============
"This is a little embarrassing, but lately, I've had some gay urges.
You could even call me a "gay old Gus".
I'm considering joining a gay men's group. Does anybody know
what they are like?
I'm sorry. I probably shouldn't have mentioned this.
Farrell Till
Skepticism, Inc.
jf...@theramp.net"
END OF JASON'S FORGERY===================
END OF QUOTE=============================
Jason, if one gives his life to Christ like you CLAIM to have given
YOUR life to Christ, will one also be able to LIE and DEFRAUD others
like YOU HAVE DONE???
And what's the deal with your little "Pay To Post" Inerrancy.com
forum??? In the FAQ, you overuse the negative "DON'T" over FIFTEEN
TIMES, then you come back and state an IMPOSSIBLITY...when you post:
"Please feel free to agree or disagree without fear of censorship or
ridicule."
Heck, you can't even disagree with you or you will DELETE the posts,
BAN the poster and claim victory for Jesus (and for you) !!! It
another LITTLE KINGDOM for you, isn't it?
Why don't you just be honest and say, "IF YOU PISS-OFF JASON, HE WILL
ELIMINATE YOU FROM SPEAKING YOUR MIND. THIS IS NOT ONE WORLD...THIS
IS JASON'S WORLD AND HE IS DA BOSS...a legend in his own mind."
Are all those folks paying you with real, American dollars through
PayPal? Do they know you claim fake degrees as legit?
Jason, how long since you were last "evidence bombed"??
Just wondering...
"Even Bill Clinton with all of his moral weaknesses and deficiencies
doesn't refer to himself as "doctor" even after having an honorary doctorate
granted to him by Oxford University in England! He knows if he did
he would not be taken seriously and ridiculed behind his back
(more than he already is!). Vain and flamboyant country singer,
Dolly Parton, was also given an honorary doctorate by a Southern
Baptist college, but does she refer to herself as "doctor"? Hardly.
But give one of these pieces of paper to many Fundamentalist preachers
and what do they do with it? To them it is as serious as a heart attack.
They treat it as if it actually confers a college education and they are
full fledged doctors!"
-- Timothy S. Morton
Don
<tmcdon...@nohormelcharter.net> wrote:
> Someone should tell Gastrich to butch up.
You noticed that also?
Is that why he forged a posting in the name of
Farrell Till, confessing to his gay urges?
BEGIN JASON'S FORGERY===============
"This is a little embarrassing, but lately, I've had some gay urges.
You could even call me a "gay old Gus".
I'm considering joining a gay men's group. Does anybody know
what they are like?
I'm sorry. I probably shouldn't have mentioned this.
Farrell Till
Skepticism, Inc.
jf...@theramp.net"
END OF JASON'S FORGERY===================
> After all, Gastrich is the center of the world, and things
>need to go his way or he just goes home.
That's why he runs his own highly-edited "innerancy" forum where HE
alone edits OUT any thought that challenges him. It't his "Pay to
Post" forum.
Poor deluded Jason...
Don
wrote:
>I'm sure this goes without saying, but "Charles C." has misrepresented
>my words by pasting together a variety of partial things that I said.
>Quite malicious, Charles. I think you need another hobby.
>
>Jason
I'm sure this goes without saying but fake-Dr. Jason accuses others of
"misrepresent[ing] [his] words" yet, fake-Dr. Jason forged a posting
in the name of Farrell Till, confessing to his gay urges. I guess
fake-Dr. Jason thinks the Eighth Commandment does not apply to him.
BEGIN JASON'S FORGERY===============
"This is a little embarrassing, but lately, I've had some gay urges.
You could even call me a "gay old Gus".
I'm considering joining a gay men's group. Does anybody know
what they are like?
I'm sorry. I probably shouldn't have mentioned this.
Farrell Till
Skepticism, Inc.
jf...@theramp.net"
END OF JASON'S FORGERY===================
HEY JASON, if I trust Christ like YOU trust Christ, is it OK for me to
LIE ABOUT OTHERS they way you lie about others???
One is often told that it is a very wrong thing to attack religion,
because religion makes men virtuous.
So I am told; I have not noticed it.
-- Bertrand Russell
Don
<tmcdon...@nohormelcharter.net> wrote:
> BTW, do you think it is correct for Jason to complain of being
>misinterpreted via partial quotations while Jason himself keeps
>Phillip Johnson's misinterpretive partial quotations on his web
>site after being shown that they misrepresented their authors'
>meanings? Or is there some different standard for quotemining of
>evolutionary scientists?
>
>Tom McDonald
Tom, it is a common practice among MANY Christians...at least, in MY
experience and several decades in the ministry. Many Christians live
not double standards but MULTIPLE STANDARDS, morally and
intellectually. After hours and hours and hours of ministry together
including hundreds of hours of conversations, I have concluded that
FEW "Christians" actually desire TRUTH, yet they yell just the
opposite to the general public. It IS a different standard, rules
that THEY set and from which they run if challenged too deeply.
I have only known a couple of "evangelical" Christians who honestly
admit that they do not know everything. I thought I knew three, but
after several hours of intimate theological discussions in January, I
realized that HE is also playing the game. His income from his church
job (as pastor) is too vital for him to be very honest at this
point...his wife just had a baby.
Seriously.
The following quote describes our fake "Dr." friend perfectly...
"Writing for a penny a word is ridiculous. If a man really wanted to make a million dollars,
the best way would be to start his own religion."
--- (You wouldn't believe me if I told ya?)
Dr. Jason Gastrich
> On Sun, 08 Feb 2004 20:31:58 GMT, "Dr. Jason Gastrich" <ne...@jcsm.org>
> wrote:
>
>> Uncle Davey wrote:
>>> Christ says that what that woman did, despite the fact that it left
>>> other duties undone, would be preached as an honourable memorial to
>>> her for doing what she could in a timely way, wherever the gospel
>>> would be preached.
>>>
>>> Uncle Davey
>>> www.usenetposts.com
>>
>> You're absolutely right. Jesus didn't tell us to forget our
>> financial obligations. However, He did prioritize kingdom work and
>> God's will over all else. "Give to Caesar what is Caesar's AND give
>> to God what is His."
>>
>> JG
>
> Hey Fake Doctor Goodwrench. Still touting your sham degree from that
> school that YOU "accredited" the same day they gave you a degree???
First, this is my last post to you because you are very offensive to me. I
already had you on killfile, but you changed your name or email address.
Next, I didn't accredit anyone. OCCM - which is made up of a fantastic
Board of Directors - deemed Shepherd Bible College a school that preaches
the biblical gospel of Jesus Christ. It was decided by a majority vote.
See our Board at http://occm.org.
Lastly, I was awarded my degree many months after they became OCCM members.
> I'm glad you didn't have to go to court and swear on that little bit
> of "accreditation fabrication." In California, Perjury is punishable
> by imprisonment in the state prison for two, three or four years.
I have no idea what you are referring to when you mention me "swearing" on
an "accreditation fabrication." I'm not breaking any laws. If someone
thinks I am, then they should prove it.
> Are you STILL POSTING FAKE POSTS under someone else's name? Or did
> you bother to tell anyone here about your hypocrisy???
I have confessed to pretending to be Farrell Till. Where have you been? I
confessed publicly and privately. I've confessed to God. Need I say or do
more? That was the first, last, and only time I have pretended to be
another person.
Farrell Till was suspended from the JCSM Forum. He signed on during his
suspension AND POSTED under TWO FAKE NAMES. Therefore, he was banned.
Therefore, I decided to play a poor joke on him.
Instead of trying to find something I did that wasn't right, why don't you
try and find the things I have done that are good? You're not looking like
a "free-thinker" any more. You're looking like a fault finder.
I don't expect you to understand Christian forgiveness. You're still under
the curse. Right? However, I have been forgiven, so whether you mention my
shortcomings once or a hundred times, I've been purified and forgiven
because I repented. You should try it. God would forgive you. It could be
quite liberating for you.
- snip -
> Jason, if one gives his life to Christ like you CLAIM to have given
> YOUR life to Christ, will one also be able to LIE and DEFRAUD others
> like YOU HAVE DONE???
Able? What do you think? Has becoming a member of any religion (even
atheism) caused a person to become UNABLE to do anything? Of course not.
Christians aren't perfect. Christians are forgiven. Furthermore,
Christians have the Holy Spirit inside of them that convicts them and helps
them repent. This is why I have repented.
You are no better. You are living the biggest lie possible. Your life is a
lie because you will not repent to your Creator. If you think I am a fraud,
then you and every unbeliever are even bigger frauds. You are telling the
worst lie imaginable; that the Creator doesn't exist.
I have sinned, felt broken, and repented. You have sinned, acted
arrogantly, and told God that He doesn't exist. If anyone is a "legend in
their own mind," it must be you. I'm a humble sinner, by my own admission,
that is only saved by God's loving grace.
Can you admit that you are a sinner? Can you tell us about your sins, how
you've learned from them, and how you've apologized to your Creator? If
not, then perhaps you are the arrogant legend in your own mind. If not,
then perhaps you are the detestable one.
> And what's the deal with your little "Pay To Post" Inerrancy.com
> forum???
Inerrancy.com isn't a "Pay To Post" venue. Members are verified with
PayPal. They send me .01 and I send it back to them. Members do it only
once. If it's not your cup of tea, then don't sign up.
Sincerely,
Jason
Bible Bob
wrote:
Evidently you don't understand forgiveness either Jason as evidenced
by your hate filled post towards me about my computer problems. You
asked this person to try and find good things that you have done.
Well, what are they? For the most part you attack people, lie,
deceive, teach false doctrine, act arrogantly, and don't behave
anything like Jesus Christ. You act more like Satan than Christ, so
why are you giving unbelievers a hard time for not doing what they are
not supposed to do when you don't do what you are supposed to do?
You need to change your posting handle to Hypocrite.
BB
Uncle Davey
Uzytkownik "Bible Bob" <bibl...@saintly.com> napisal w wiadomosci
news:9plj20h0juhb0sn27...@4ax.com...
When someone breaks my ironymeter on Usenet, is there regress anywhere?
Uncle Davey
Ariaan
Do you believe in God and have you accepted Jesus Christ as your Lord and
Saviour?
Ariaan
Snowbird
They mis-heard him. He actually said :
"Render to Visa the things that are Visa's, and to God the things that
are God's".
-
Wayne
Therion Ware
On Sun, 08 Feb 2004 11:37:07 GMT in free.christians, Dr. Jason
Gastrich ("Dr. Jason Gastrich" <ne...@jcsm.org>) said, directing the
reply to free.christians
Original message complete with headers:
>Path: sn-us!sn-xit-06!sn-xit-09!supernews.com!newshosting.com!news-xfer2.atl.newshosting.com!diablo.voicenet.com!c03.atl99!rip!news.webusenet.com!peer01.cox.net!peer02.cox.net!cox.net!news-server.columbus.rr.com!cyclone2.kc.rr.com!news2.kc.rr.com!twister.socal.rr.com.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail
>From: "Jason Gastrich" <Ja...@freechristians.org>
>Newsgroups: free.christians
>References: <7cOdb.21675$ev2.4...@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com> <zRWdb.7607$4X4....@newssvr27.news.prodigy.com> <zHXdb.22966$ev2.4...@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>
>Subject: Re: Tithing Question
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>Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 21:48:21 GMT
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>Xref: sn-us free.christians:575
>
>labmgr wrote:
>> Thanks for all the responses so far. But I think I've confused people
>> by throwing my wife into the mix. I'm really interested to know if
>> people think you should still tithe even if the income you receive
>> each month isn't even enough to pay for your necessities. And by
>> necessities I mean Rent, Groceries, Diapers, Automotive Fuel, Car
>> Insurance, Car Payments, Electricity, Any medical bills that may
>> occur. Should someone still give a full tenth in those circumstances?
>> It is confusing to me because God doesn't want us to be in debt. And
>> many times I've thought to myself, "Wow. I would have been able to
>> make more than a minimum payment to these people if I didn't tithe."
>> So sometimes I feel like obeying God's command to tithe is forcing me
>> to disobey His command to not be in debt. Therein lies the confusion.
>>
>> Sorry for the confusion,
>> Please Reiterate,
>> Al
>
>Hi Al,
>
>Thanks for your message.
>
>I think it is more important to tithe than pay credit card bills. I think
>you will be more blessed for giving to God than Visa.
>
>JG
>
>--
>Jesus Christ Saves Ministries
>http://www.jcsm.org
>Over 50,000 web pages!
>
>John 8:36 "Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free
>indeed."
>
>Galatians 5:1 "Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has
>made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage."
>
Mark Fox
>
> This reminds me of the passage in Mark 14, I think it is, when people were
> getting upset with the woman who brought a box of spikenard and anointed the
> head of Jesus. Everybody was telling her that she should have sold it for
> 300 pence and given it to the poor. Christ commended her for her putting Him
> first, and doing what she could.
>
> What we need to do is do what we can. Our poor, and our bills for consumer
> spending, we can always pay off anytime we like, but when God provides us
> with a way to serve him with our time or our substance, we should do what we
> can.
>
> Christ says that what that woman did, despite the fact that it left other
> duties undone, would be preached as an honourable memorial to her for doing
> what she could in a timely way, wherever the gospel would be preached.
>
> Uncle Davey
> www.usenetposts.com
Or another way of explaining it would be that The "poor" have no use
for spikenard. The poor need food, clothing and shelter. Selling the
spikenard would have not created any more food, clothing or shelter
for the poor. The "people who were getting upset" were ignoring the
joy of the woman who has accepted Jesus' offer of salvation and were
merely engaged in another worldly financial scheme to use that woman's
resources to make themselves feel good. The woman was clearly using
her wealth to worship God and not for worldly greedy purposes. If you
subscribe to the theory that "everything" should be sold and the money
given to the poor then Jesus should have never wasted time proclaiming
the word of God and the offer of salvation and instead should have
spent his life being a carpenter building homes for the poor. The
biblical examples of giving to the poor are good ones but the
fundamental reason for God's command to give away your wealth is to
free you from worshipping wealth and bring your heart and soul back to
worshipping God the way you were created to do. If giving away your
wealth is required to save your soul then giving it to the poor is a
wonderful idea.
Jerzy Jakubowski
But you might like to compare what you just said with the episode in Mark 14.
Uncle Davey