Help the Homeless - Free MP3 Devotional
Jason Gastrich
the Homeless.
You can download it by clicking http://jcsm.org/ADA/Devos401.mp3 or you can
go to our site to stream it or hear other devotionals. Link:
http://ada.jcsm.org
God bless,
Jason
--
--------
Jesus Christ Saves Ministries
http://www.jcsm.org
Over 90,000 web pages!
John 8:36 reads, "Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free
indeed."
Galatians 5:1 reads, "Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ
has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage."
ICQ#: 20731140 . AIM: MrJasonGastrich . YIM: Jesus_Saved_Jason
Jason Gastrich
Jason Gastrich
Jason Gastrich
Jason Gastrich
_AnonCoward
news:HrJZd.40875$VD5....@twister.socal.rr.com...
<a bunch of nonsense designed to drive up traffic to his website>
For those not unfamiliar with Jason Gastrich, be warned. It is my belief
that he is a scam artist who among other things falsly promotes himself
as a "Doctor" of theology (http://tinyurl.com/4d78b,
http://tinyurl.com/53fz2) Here is a little information. See also
http://tinyurl.com/65olj.
Jason used to post as "Dr. Jason Gastrich" on USENET (see
http://tinyurl.com/3qm6z for one randomly selected example). He was
called out on it and finally dropped the title. It turns out that his
Doctorate was "honorary" (see http://tinyurl.com/6luoq for a thread
where he first introduced himself to A.T.C. and his ThD was challenged).
Jason is the founder and president of the "Online Christ Centered
Ministries" web site (http://www.occm.org). In his words, this site is
"a professional, membership association for individuals and ministries
proclaiming the true gospel of Jesus Christ".
Jason was awarded his honorary doctorate from the Shepherd Bible College
in Largo Florida (http://www.sbcollege.net). At one time, OCCM was
listed by Shepherd Bible College as an accrediting organization.
However, it this has been corrected on the accreditations page
(http://www.sbcollege.net/Accreditation.htm) to reflect that OCCM is
strictly a professional association only, not an accrediting
organization.
Shepherd College's only remaining claim to accreditaion is from the WWAC
(Worldwide Accreditation Commission of Christian Educational
Institutions (WWAC), overseen by Dr. Paul Richardson). Please note that
this page states plainly that the WWAC is not recognized by the U.S.
Department of Education (nor by any other credible source from what I
can tell). The website for WWAC is http://fgcfi.tripod.com/wwac.htm.
So in a nutshell, Jason promotes himself on his website has a "Dr.".
However, he fails to mention that his doctorate is honorary and was
awarded from a bible college that at one time was accredited by an
organization he founded. Further, this college now only claims to be
accredited by an accrediting organization that is not recognized by any
credible organization. Or in other words, his title of "Dr." is a sham.
Ralf
--
-----------------------------------------------------------
* ^~^ ^~^ *
* _ {~ ~} {~ ~} _ *
* /_``>*< >*<''_\ *
* (\--_)++) (++(_--/) *
-----------------------------------------------------------
We must at all times stand in opposition to the entaglement
of religious authority with political power. The outcome is
invariably an abomination.
SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim
"Jason Gastrich" <usene...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:lrJZd.40874$VD5....@twister.socal.rr.com...
Grendel
> "Jason Gastrich" <usene...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:HrJZd.40875$VD5....@twister.socal.rr.com...
>
>
> <a bunch of nonsense designed to drive up traffic to his website>
Yes, if you are an:
atheist/bible-scoffer/god-hater/fundamentalist-evolutionist, you would
in all likely-hood consider it nonsense.
However, if you are a Christian, it is a worthwhile listen.
Raymond E. Griffith
"Grendel" <na...@trynot.com> wrote in message
news:qlKZd.43916$KI2.14551@clgrps12...
> _AnonCoward wrote:
> > "Jason Gastrich" <usene...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:HrJZd.40875$VD5....@twister.socal.rr.com...
> >
> >
> > <a bunch of nonsense designed to drive up traffic to his website>
>
>
> Yes, if you are an:
> atheist/bible-scoffer/god-hater/fundamentalist-evolutionist, you would
> in all likely-hood consider it nonsense.
> However, if you are a Christian, it is a worthwhile listen.
And the faked credentials don't bother you?
cactus
> _AnonCoward wrote:
>
>> "Jason Gastrich" <usene...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:HrJZd.40875$VD5....@twister.socal.rr.com...
>>
>>
>> <a bunch of nonsense designed to drive up traffic to his website>
>
>
>
> Yes, if you are an:
> atheist/bible-scoffer/god-hater/fundamentalist-evolutionist, you would
> in all likely-hood consider it nonsense.
> However, if you are a Christian, it is a worthwhile listen.
et tu Grende?
cactus
> Our newest audio devotional message is online! It's #401 and called Help
> the Homeless.
>
> You can download it by clicking http://jcsm.org/ADA/Devos401.mp3 or you can
> go to our site to stream it or hear other devotionals. Link:
> http://ada.jcsm.org
>
> God bless,
> Jason
>
Mike Painter
> Grendel wrote:
>> _AnonCoward wrote:
>>
>>> "Jason Gastrich" <usene...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>> news:HrJZd.40875$VD5....@twister.socal.rr.com...
>>>
>>>
>>> <a bunch of nonsense designed to drive up traffic to his website>
>>
>>
>>
>> Yes, if you are an:
>> atheist/bible-scoffer/god-hater/fundamentalist-evolutionist, you
>> would in all likely-hood consider it nonsense.
>> However, if you are a Christian, it is a worthwhile listen.
I listened. It is a sad comment that it is worthwhile for a christian to
listen to this bit of vanity.
The ideas are bad, the concept is bad and giving them snacks is stupid.
Anybody that cared anything about homeless would know this and get involved
in a worthwhile program.
Saddest of all is that most of the message has nothing to do with the
homeless but in gaining points for some god part.
I average over ten hours a week helping to feed people. I wonder how much
time Jason has spent doing anything but talk about it - and giving them left
over Twinkies.
Chris Devol
news:7sqdnXdwMLi...@ctc.net...
>
> "Grendel" <na...@trynot.com> wrote in message
> news:qlKZd.43916$KI2.14551@clgrps12...
>> _AnonCoward wrote:
>> > "Jason Gastrich" <usene...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> > news:HrJZd.40875$VD5....@twister.socal.rr.com...
>> >
>> >
>> > <a bunch of nonsense designed to drive up traffic to his website>
>>
>>
>> Yes, if you are an:
>> atheist/bible-scoffer/god-hater/fundamentalist-evolutionist, you would
>> in all likely-hood consider it nonsense.
>> However, if you are a Christian, it is a worthwhile listen.
>
> And the faked credentials don't bother you?
"Brother" Jason doesn't like to discuss anything in real time. It's always
links, links and more links.
Some kind of tapeworm, I guess.
Jason Gastrich
I don't mind real time discussions. However, I have a limited amount of
time and I've already researched and written on a number of subjects. When
I link to my previous research, I hope that suffices; especially when I'm
short on time.
Regards,
Chris Devol
> Chris Devol wrote:
>> "Raymond E. Griffith" <rgri...@ctc.net> wrote in message
>> news:7sqdnXdwMLi...@ctc.net...
>>>
>>> "Grendel" <na...@trynot.com> wrote in message
>>> news:qlKZd.43916$KI2.14551@clgrps12...
>>>> _AnonCoward wrote:
>>>>> "Jason Gastrich" <usene...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:HrJZd.40875$VD5....@twister.socal.rr.com...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> <a bunch of nonsense designed to drive up traffic to his website>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Yes, if you are an:
>>>> atheist/bible-scoffer/god-hater/fundamentalist-evolutionist, you
>>>> would in all likely-hood consider it nonsense.
>>>> However, if you are a Christian, it is a worthwhile listen.
>>>
>>> And the faked credentials don't bother you?
>>
>> "Brother" Jason doesn't like to discuss anything in real time. It's
>> always links, links and more links.
>>
>> Some kind of tapeworm, I guess.
>
> I don't mind real time discussions. However, I have a limited amount of
> time and I've already researched and written on a number of subjects.
> When
> I link to my previous research, I hope that suffices; especially when I'm
> short on time.
>
> Regards,
> Jason
In the time it took you to write that, you could have responded to my last
post to you in the "inerrancy" thread, from which you simply disappeared.
Now, I understand the sectarian position, which is that there is not to be
discussion with someone who refuses to be proselytized. In other words, if
they aren't interested in joining your sect, you don't talk to them, except
maybe about the weather.
That is really what's going on. Why pretend that you're reasonable?
dEåÐåNGe£
let him be a scammer
we all need money
--
AIM: deadangell
http://profiles.myspace.com/users/9891627
"_AnonCoward" <a...@xyz.com> wrote in message
news:SDJZd.10720$nZ.8...@twister.southeast.rr.com...
Grendel
> cactus wrote:
>
>>Grendel wrote:
>>
>>>_AnonCoward wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>"Jason Gastrich" <usene...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>>>news:HrJZd.40875$VD5....@twister.socal.rr.com...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>><a bunch of nonsense designed to drive up traffic to his website>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Yes, if you are an:
>>>atheist/bible-scoffer/god-hater/fundamentalist-evolutionist, you
>>>would in all likely-hood consider it nonsense.
>>>However, if you are a Christian, it is a worthwhile listen.
>
>
>
> I listened. It is a sad comment that it is worthwhile for a christian to
> listen to this bit of vanity.
Simpld question Mike. Are you a Christian?
> The ideas are bad, the concept is bad and giving them snacks is stupid.
If yes to first question, why then, from a Christian perspective, would
it be bad.
>
> Anybody that cared anything about homeless would know this and get involved
> in a worthwhile program.
>
> Saddest of all is that most of the message has nothing to do with the
> homeless but in gaining points for some god part.
>
> I average over ten hours a week helping to feed people.
Commendable. What is your motivation?
I wonder how much
> time Jason has spent doing anything but talk about it - and giving them left
> over Twinkies.
Do you know what motivates Jason?
>
>
Grendel
> "Grendel" <na...@trynot.com> wrote in message
> news:qlKZd.43916$KI2.14551@clgrps12...
>
>>_AnonCoward wrote:
>>
>>>"Jason Gastrich" <usene...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>>news:HrJZd.40875$VD5....@twister.socal.rr.com...
>>>
>>>
>>><a bunch of nonsense designed to drive up traffic to his website>
>>
>>
>>Yes, if you are an:
>>atheist/bible-scoffer/god-hater/fundamentalist-evolutionist, you would
>>in all likely-hood consider it nonsense.
>>However, if you are a Christian, it is a worthwhile listen.
>
>
> And the faked credentials don't bother you?
I did not notice any Raymond, perhaps you could use your divine gift of
criticism a little more effectively and be more specific.
Seppo Pietikainen
> Raymond E. Griffith wrote:
>
>> "Grendel" <na...@trynot.com> wrote in message
>> news:qlKZd.43916$KI2.14551@clgrps12...
>>
>>> _AnonCoward wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Jason Gastrich" <usene...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:HrJZd.40875$VD5....@twister.socal.rr.com...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> <a bunch of nonsense designed to drive up traffic to his website>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Yes, if you are an:
>>> atheist/bible-scoffer/god-hater/fundamentalist-evolutionist, you would
>>> in all likely-hood consider it nonsense.
>>> However, if you are a Christian, it is a worthwhile listen.
>>
>>
>>
>> And the faked credentials don't bother you?
>
>
> I did not notice any Raymond, perhaps you could use your divine gift of
> criticism a little more effectively and be more specific.
(stripping superfluous ng's)
I don't doubt for a second that *you*, Jisty/Grendel/Whatsyourface, failed to notice.
Maybe you ought to get more acquainted with the term "diploma mill" and some other
associated terms, such as "phony" or "fake".
As starters, y'all might want to do a study on "Dr." Hovind and his "alma mater"...
>
>>
>>
>>> You can download it by clicking http://jcsm.org/ADA/Devos401.mp3 or you
>>
>>
>> can
>>
>>> go to our site to stream it or hear other devotionals. Link:
>>> http://ada.jcsm.org
>>
>>
>>
>>
Seppo P.
Jason Gastrich
> Grendel wrote:
>> Raymond E. Griffith wrote:
>>
>>> "Grendel" <na...@trynot.com> wrote in message
>>> news:qlKZd.43916$KI2.14551@clgrps12...
>>>
>>>> _AnonCoward wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> "Jason Gastrich" <usene...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:HrJZd.40875$VD5....@twister.socal.rr.com...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> <a bunch of nonsense designed to drive up traffic to his website>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Yes, if you are an:
>>>> atheist/bible-scoffer/god-hater/fundamentalist-evolutionist, you
>>>> would in all likely-hood consider it nonsense.
>>>> However, if you are a Christian, it is a worthwhile listen.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> And the faked credentials don't bother you?
>>
>>
>> I did not notice any Raymond, perhaps you could use your divine gift
>> of criticism a little more effectively and be more specific.
>
> (stripping superfluous ng's)
>
> I don't doubt for a second that *you*, Jisty/Grendel/Whatsyourface,
> failed to notice. Maybe you ought to get more acquainted with the
> term "diploma mill" and some other associated terms, such as "phony"
> or "fake".
>
> As starters, y'all might want to do a study on "Dr." Hovind and his
> "alma mater"...
. . . and how is this pertinent to helping the homeless?
>>>> You can download it by clicking http://jcsm.org/ADA/Devos401.mp3
>>>> or you
>>>
>>>
>>> can
>>>
>>>> go to our site to stream it or hear other devotionals. Link:
>>>> http://ada.jcsm.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
> Seppo P.
--
Raymond E. Griffith
> Seppo Pietikainen wrote:
> > Grendel wrote:
> >> Raymond E. Griffith wrote:
> >>
> >>> "Grendel" <na...@trynot.com> wrote in message
> >>> news:qlKZd.43916$KI2.14551@clgrps12...
> >>>
> >>>> _AnonCoward wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> "Jason Gastrich" <usene...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >>>>> news:HrJZd.40875$VD5....@twister.socal.rr.com...
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> <a bunch of nonsense designed to drive up traffic to his website>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Yes, if you are an:
> >>>> atheist/bible-scoffer/god-hater/fundamentalist-evolutionist, you
> >>>> would in all likely-hood consider it nonsense.
> >>>> However, if you are a Christian, it is a worthwhile listen.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> And the faked credentials don't bother you?
> >>
> >>
> >> I did not notice any Raymond, perhaps you could use your divine gift
> >> of criticism a little more effectively and be more specific.
> >
> > (stripping superfluous ng's)
> >
> > I don't doubt for a second that *you*, Jisty/Grendel/Whatsyourface,
> > failed to notice. Maybe you ought to get more acquainted with the
> > term "diploma mill" and some other associated terms, such as "phony"
> > or "fake".
> >
> > As starters, y'all might want to do a study on "Dr." Hovind and his
> > "alma mater"...
>
> . . . and how is this pertinent to helping the homeless?
When you are dishonest in one area, it reflects on everything else you do.
The Lord Jesus said that he which is faithful in the little things will be
faithful in the big things, and he which is not faithful in the little
things will not be faithful in the big things.
We Christians invite scrutiny, simply by our claims to righteousness through
Christ. People look at us to see whether we live up to those claims.
Jason, there have been several places in which you have been criticized
legitimately. The bogus Ph.D. is one of them. And whether you think it is
pertinent or not, it will color others' perceptions of you and your
ministry -- and even their perception of the God you claim to serve.
You would be better off disavowing the "honorary degree" given by an
institution to which your ministry at one time claimed to give
"accreditation". It will be an albatross around your neck until you do.
Regards,
Raymond E. Griffith
cactus
At least here. There are plenty of sheep out there, just waiting for
the con artist to fleece them. He really doesn't need us.
Sad isn't it?
Jason Gastrich
Nobody is perfect. I have my faults.
> The bogus Ph.D. is one of them. And whether
> you think it is pertinent or not, it will color others' perceptions
> of you and your ministry -- and even their perception of the God you
> claim to serve.
Bogus Ph.D.? I have a Th.D. from Shepherd Bible College. They awarded me
this degree.
> You would be better off disavowing the "honorary degree" given by an
> institution to which your ministry at one time claimed to give
> "accreditation". It will be an albatross around your neck until you
> do.
This is untrue. You'll never be able to find me or my ministry calling what
we do (or did) through OCCM "accreditation." We have never and can never
accredit anyone. In fact, we have found a couple of OCCM members calling
our approval an "accreditation," and we've warned them to stop.
I'm sorry you can't see this whole degree attack as the nonsense that it is.
SBC was an OCCM member for over a year. After writing my apologetics book
and contributing significant time, effort, and resources to reaching the
lost, SBC awarded me an honorary doctorate. They simply recognized my works
and rewarded me for them. This is exactly what thousands of other schools
have done for thousands of other people.
I have absolutely nothing to apologize for.
Now, if I seem irritable, it's because I've already explained this more than
once. Somehow, it seems that you have half of the story and some incorrect
details. This is what bothers me.
Regards,
Jason
Raymond E. Griffith
If this is indeed the case, I apologize. If it is the case, then you have
fallen afoul of the fact that many people in the ministry have gotten their
credentials from diploma mills, and from there used their credentials to
claim expertise in areas they had no business claiming knowledge of.
Unfortunately, those who abuse the credentialling process discredit many
others in the process. However, I would still be careful about using even an
honorary Th.D. Honorary it is. But those who have earned their degrees feel
that an honorary degree is worth rather less than an earned one.
Regards,
Raymond E. Griffith
Jason Gastrich
Apology accepted.
> If it is the case, then you
> have fallen afoul of the fact that many people in the ministry have
> gotten their credentials from diploma mills, and from there used
> their credentials to claim expertise in areas they had no business
> claiming knowledge of.
Not exactly.
I have two earned degrees (Psychology B.A. from SDSU and a Biblical Studies
M.A. from LBU) and I'm currently in a Ph.D. program at Louisiana Baptist
University (see http://lbu.edu).
Regards,
Jason
Harvest Dancer
> Raymond E. Griffith wrote:
> > "Jason Gastrich" <usene...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:dw%Zd.40968$VD5....@twister.socal.rr.com...
> >>
If you're in the process of earning the degree, why are you listed
among their distinguished alumni?
Oh, wait, that's a fake distinguished alumni page you have at
http://jcsm.org/LBU/LBUAlumni.htm and their real distinguised alumni
page http://www.lbu.edu/featuredalumni.html doesn't mention you.
If you're earning a degree there, do they know what you're doing at
that site?
Jason Harvestdancer
David
Harvestman minced:
Jason Harvestdancer
Neither the one or the other seems to work. Have you used your witchcraft to
stop them functioning?
Ralph Page
"David" <nuga...@pension.com> wrote in message
news:d1aguf$roe$0...@pita.alt.net...
<snipping to subject>
> Oh, wait, that's a fake distinguished alumni page you have at
> http://jcsm.org/LBU/LBUAlumni.虐tm and their real distinguised
> alumni
> page http://www.lbu.edu/featuredalu衫ni.html doesn't mention you.
>
> If you're earning a degree there, do they know what you're doing at
> that site?
>
> Jason Harvestdancer
>
>
> Neither the one or the other seems to work. Have you used your
> witchcraft to
> stop them functioning?
I found that a '-' was inserted into the browser address window
mid-way through the links. If you remove the '-' they work fine.
Jason is not listed in the distinguished alumni list at the lbu site.
-Ralph Page
Raymond Griffith
ra...@PANTSralphpage.net wrote on 03/16/05 10:03 PM:
Thank you for the help. It seems that Jason Gastrich maintains his own page,
and includes himself as a distinguished alumnus, along with some others that
are not listed at the lbu site. He does copy wholesale from the lbu site the
descriptions of the people common to both, although he does add some
personal comments.
I would tend to think that including oneself as one of the "distinguished
alumni" of LBU (especially when not so included on the LBU site) is covered
by "Let another man praise thee, and not thine own mouth" (Proverbs 27:2).
But I would not characterize Jason's page as "fake". He does not appear to
claim that it is the university's page.
Regards,
Raymond E. Griffith
Jason Gastrich
Should I grow a mustache?
Jason Gastrich
Actually, LBU took a couple people and their pictures and descriptions from
my site. They only had one or two alumni on their list when I made mine.
> I would tend to think that including oneself as one of the
> "distinguished alumni" of LBU (especially when not so included on the
> LBU site) is covered by "Let another man praise thee, and not thine
> own mouth" (Proverbs 27:2). But I would not characterize Jason's page
> as "fake". He does not appear to claim that it is the university's
> page.
>
> Regards,
>
> Raymond E. Griffith
It would be a bit odd to have a list of graduate school alumni from LBU and
not include myself. Wouldn't it? I graduated with a 4.0 in their M.A.
program and I'm in their Ph.D. program.
You'd have to look pretty hard to find me, though. I'm in the bottom
section of the page. I figured this would be the right thing to do. The
people above me have higher degrees and have done some awesome things in the
name of the Lord.
Regards,
Jason
Seppo Pietikainen
How are "devotionals" pertinent to helping the homeless?
>
>>>>>You can download it by clicking http://jcsm.org/ADA/Devos401.mp3
>>>>>or you
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>can
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>go to our site to stream it or hear other devotionals. Link:
>>>>>http://ada.jcsm.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>Seppo P.
>
>
Seppo P.
Jason Gastrich
This devotional is an encouraging message and a challenge for people to help
the homeless.
>>>>>> You can download it by clicking http://jcsm.org/ADA/Devos401.mp3
>>>>>> or you
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> can
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> go to our site to stream it or hear other devotionals. Link:
>>>>>> http://ada.jcsm.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>> Seppo P.
>>
>>
>
> Seppo P.
--
Raymond Griffith
usene...@yahoo.com wrote on 03/17/05 12:33 AM:
> Raymond Griffith wrote:
>> in article gs6_d.23847$OU1....@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com, Ralph
>> Page at ra...@PANTSralphpage.net wrote on 03/16/05 10:03 PM:
>>
>>>
>>> "David" <nuga...@pension.com> wrote in message
>>> news:d1aguf$roe$0...@pita.alt.net...
>>>
>>> <snipping to subject>
>>>> Oh, wait, that's a fake distinguished alumni page you have at
>>>> http://jcsm.org/LBU/LBUAlumni.htm and their real distinguised
>>>> alumni
>>>> page http://www.lbu.edu/featuredalumni.html doesn't mention you.
>>>>
>>>> If you're earning a degree there, do they know what you're doing at
>>>> that site?
>>>>
>>>> Jason Harvestdancer
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Neither the one or the other seems to work. Have you used your
>>>> witchcraft to
>>>> stop them functioning?
>>>
>>> I found that a '-' was inserted into the browser address window
>>> mid-way through the links. If you remove the '-' they work fine.
>>> Jason is not listed in the distinguished alumni list at the lbu site.
>>>
>>> -Ralph Page
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Thank you for the help. It seems that Jason Gastrich maintains his
>> own page, and includes himself as a distinguished alumnus, along with
>> some others that are not listed at the lbu site. He does copy
>> wholesale from the lbu site the descriptions of the people common to
>> both, although he does add some personal comments.
>
> Actually, LBU took a couple people and their pictures and descriptions from
> my site. They only had one or two alumni on their list when I made mine.
Clarification noted.
>
>> I would tend to think that including oneself as one of the
>> "distinguished alumni" of LBU (especially when not so included on the
>> LBU site) is covered by "Let another man praise thee, and not thine
>> own mouth" (Proverbs 27:2). But I would not characterize Jason's page
>> as "fake". He does not appear to claim that it is the university's
>> page.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Raymond E. Griffith
>
> It would be a bit odd to have a list of graduate school alumni from LBU and
> not include myself. Wouldn't it? I graduated with a 4.0 in their M.A.
> program and I'm in their Ph.D. program.
Hmmm. But to include yourself among their "distinguished" alumni? Come now.
Did you include every other alumna or alumnus who graduated with a 4.0 in
their graduate programs? You certainly have every right on your site to
introduce yourself and give your bio.
But it certainly *seems* pretentious. Especially to those who already see
too close a connection between your organization and the one which awarded
you your honorary degree. I see that OCCM uses "Certification" and
"Authentication" instead of "Accreditation", but I confess that it gives me
a bad feeling. Nothing is said as to how your organization certifies or
authenticates other ministries.
As to our own works and our evaluation of how "distinguished" we may be, I
refer you to the apostle Paul, who said
1 Corinthians 4
1 Let a man so account of us, as of the ministers of Christ, and stewards
of the mysteries of God.
2 Moreover it is required in stewards, that a man be found faithful.
3 But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or
of man's judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self.
4 For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he
that judgeth me is the Lord.
5 Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both
will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest
the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.
6 And these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself
and to Apollos for your sakes; that ye might learn in us not to think of men
above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against
another.
7 For who maketh thee to differ from another? and what hast thou that
thou didst not receive? now if thou didst receive it, why dost thou glory,
as if thou hadst not received it?
You will notice that Paul refused to grade himself. In another passage he
talked about how care was a necessity, lest he himself should become
disapproved even though he had preached to others.
>
> You'd have to look pretty hard to find me, though.
Not hard at all.
> I'm in the bottom
> section of the page.
Nope. Right at the middle, at least by what my scrollbar tells me.
> I figured this would be the right thing to do. The
> people above me have higher degrees and have done some awesome things in the
> name of the Lord.
I'm glad you recognize this. Of course, you are placed above 4 Ph.D. Holders
yourself.
But you need to think, Jason, and think hard. As Christians, we want the
ministry to be approved in all things. It is too hard at times for us to see
our own faults, but very often the very things we are blind to are obstacles
in the ministry.
I am not asking you to stop ministering. But you need to be careful with the
Lord's reputation. Bend over backwards if you must, but if you are going to
be a visible servant of the Lord remember you will be judged more harshly in
all things by both men and God. Make sure Jason isn't getting in the way of
the ministry. This is particularly true if you and your organizations are
seen in any way as "authenticating" or "certifying" other ministries.
I am trying to be fair. I want to be fair, and not judge you unjustly. I
certainly want to be careful for myself. And of course, my opinions carry as
much weight as you might wish to give them. So you are perfectly free to
ignore any of my advice. And frankly, that is what I expect. It is difficult
(usually impossible) to convince a person that they are doing something
wrong when they are absolutely convinced they are right. Thus the downfall
of many "men of God" in the ministry over the years!
Now I am quite happy that you are going for the Th.D. at LBU. But remember,
information is not knowledge -- but you can't have knowledge without the
information. And knowledge alone is not wisdom. But one cannot be wise
without knowledge. May you acquire all three.
Regards,
Raymond E. Griffith
>
> Regards,
> Jason
Harvest Dancer
No. Try cutting and pasting, as google sometimes does funny things
when you try to post links. At least this horrid Google-beta does.
Jason Harvestdancer
Harvest Dancer
> in article gs6_d.23847$OU1....@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com, Ralph
Page at
> ra...@PANTSralphpage.net wrote on 03/16/05 10:03 PM:
>
> >
> > "David" <nuga...@pension.com> wrote in message
> > news:d1aguf$roe$0...@pita.alt.net...
> >
> > <snipping to subject>
> >> Oh, wait, that's a fake distinguished alumni page you have at
> >> alumni
> >> page http://www.lbu.edu/featuredalumni.html doesn't mention you.
It seems that while the page itself doesn't claim to be LBU's
distinguised alumni page, Gastrich does tell people to go there to see
LBU's distinguished alumni. Very clever, as he doesn't actually say
anything that is untrue.
However, it's obvious he wants people to mistakenly think it's the LBU
distinguished alunmi page.
Jason Harvestdancer
Harvest Dancer
> Raymond Griffith wrote:
> > in article gs6_d.23847$OU1....@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com, Ralph
> > Page at ra...@PANTSralphpage.net wrote on 03/16/05 10:03 PM:
> >
> >>
> >> "David" <nuga...@pension.com> wrote in message
> >> news:d1aguf$roe$0...@pita.alt.net...
> >>
> >> <snipping to subject>
> >>> Oh, wait, that's a fake distinguished alumni page you have at
> >>> alumni
> >>> page http://www.lbu.edu/featuredalumni.html doesn't mention
you.
> >>>
> >>> If you're earning a degree there, do they know what you're doing
at
> >>> that site?
> >>>
> >>> Jason Harvestdancer
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Neither the one or the other seems to work. Have you used your
> >>> witchcraft to
> >>> stop them functioning?
> >>
> >> I found that a '-' was inserted into the browser address window
> >> mid-way through the links. If you remove the '-' they work fine.
> >> Jason is not listed in the distinguished alumni list at the lbu
site.
> >>
> >> -Ralph Page
> >
> > Thank you for the help. It seems that Jason Gastrich maintains his
> > own page, and includes himself as a distinguished alumnus, along
with
> > some others that are not listed at the lbu site. He does copy
> > wholesale from the lbu site the descriptions of the people common
to
> > both, although he does add some personal comments.
>
> Actually, LBU took a couple people and their pictures and
descriptions from
> my site. They only had one or two alumni on their list when I made
mine.
Ok ... then why didn't they take you as well?
> > I would tend to think that including oneself as one of the
> > "distinguished alumni" of LBU (especially when not so included on
the
> > LBU site) is covered by "Let another man praise thee, and not thine
> > own mouth" (Proverbs 27:2). But I would not characterize Jason's
page
> > as "fake". He does not appear to claim that it is the university's
> > page.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Raymond E. Griffith
>
> It would be a bit odd to have a list of graduate school alumni from
LBU and
> not include myself. Wouldn't it? I graduated with a 4.0 in their
M.A.
> program and I'm in their Ph.D. program.
The distinguishment of alumni is determined by what is done after
graduation, such as building a successful ministry and publishing
quality books. You've built a ministry and written a book. The
adjectives differ. Your GPA doesn't make that determination.
> You'd have to look pretty hard to find me, though. I'm in the bottom
> section of the page. I figured this would be the right thing to do.
The
> people above me have higher degrees and have done some awesome things
in the
> name of the Lord.
The fact that your on the page is the problem, not where you put
yourself on the page. You have corrupted the concept by placing
yourself as a peer of your betters. You have not done awesome work
except in the name of the Adversary.
Jason Harvestdancer
David D. aa#2219 thanks to Gastrich
Harvest Dancer wrote:
> Jason Gastrich wrote:
> > Raymond Griffith wrote:
> > >
> > > I would tend to think that including oneself
> > > as one of the "distinguished alumni" of LBU
> > > (especially when not so included on the LBU
> > > site) is covered by "Let another man praise
> > > thee, and not thine own mouth" (Proverbs 27:2).
> > > But I would not characterize Jason's page as
> > > "fake". He does not appear to claim that it is
> > > the university's page.
Hi Raymond
I might add that Jason's page was much more similar
to the LBU page but Don called him out
(http://tinyurl.com/62heb). Shortly after Jason changed
it's style. It's original style was exactly the same as the
LBU site and even Jason must have realized that it was a
blatant con. Since the current page is a different style it
is merely disingenuous.
This is typical of Jason on the internet, sailing as close to
the wind as he dare.
Notice that on Jason's self-written alumni page, he writes:
"He [Jason] also has a Th.D. degree from Shepherd Bible College."
Notice that there's NOTHING There about the "degree" being honorary.
An interesting alumni on the LBU page but NOT on Jasons page is Dr.
Billy Hamm
QUOTE from LBU site
Billy Hamm grew up in Texas. He accepted Christ at age 8 and was called
to preach at 11. He graduated from Technical High School in Fort Worth.
He has served as Pastor of the Mountain States Baptist Church in
Denver, Colorado since 1979. Mountain States has been the sending
church for 8 foreign missionary families. During that time, MSBC has
also been the sponsor of 10 new churches in Colorado. He earned his
degrees from: North Texas Baptist College (Th.G. in Theology) Baptist
Bible College West (B.A. in Theology) Evangelical Theological Seminary
(M.S. in Clinical Pastoral Counseling) Louisiana Baptist University
(Ph.D. in Psychology and Counseling). He holds an honorary Doctor of
Divinity degree from Baptist Bible College West. He is an Honorary
Alumnus of Baptist Bible College.
Now let's stop right here. Did we all notice how he cited his honorary
degree? Is he too honest for Jason's web site? Would he bring
attention to Jason degree, or lack there of?
David D.
Raymond E. Griffith
"David D. aa#2219 thanks to Gastrich" <da...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1111075446.9...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>
> Harvest Dancer wrote:
> > Jason Gastrich wrote:
> > > Raymond Griffith wrote:
> <snip>
> > > >
> > > > I would tend to think that including oneself
> > > > as one of the "distinguished alumni" of LBU
> > > > (especially when not so included on the LBU
> > > > site) is covered by "Let another man praise
> > > > thee, and not thine own mouth" (Proverbs 27:2).
> > > > But I would not characterize Jason's page as
> > > > "fake". He does not appear to claim that it is
> > > > the university's page.
>
> Hi Raymond
>
> I might add that Jason's page was much more similar
> to the LBU page but Don called him out
> (http://tinyurl.com/62heb). Shortly after Jason changed
> it's style. It's original style was exactly the same as the
> LBU site and even Jason must have realized that it was a
> blatant con. Since the current page is a different style it
> is merely disingenuous.
I appreciate the information. The more information we have, the better. This
seems to contradict some information Jason gave, saying that the LBU page
was in part copied from his own.
>
> This is typical of Jason on the internet, sailing as close to
> the wind as he dare.
No doubt he would disagree.
I have students who have no trouble with copying from others. They don't
seem to think there is anything wrong with it. Is it a surfeit of
information? Or is it the ease with which information is obtainable? In any
case, I have problems with it, and so does my school.
>
> Notice that on Jason's self-written alumni page, he writes:
>
> "He [Jason] also has a Th.D. degree from Shepherd Bible College."
>
> Notice that there's NOTHING There about the "degree" being honorary.
Noted. Thank you.
>
> An interesting alumni on the LBU page but NOT on Jasons page is Dr.
> Billy Hamm
>
> QUOTE from LBU site
> Billy Hamm grew up in Texas. He accepted Christ at age 8 and was called
> to preach at 11. He graduated from Technical High School in Fort Worth.
> He has served as Pastor of the Mountain States Baptist Church in
> Denver, Colorado since 1979. Mountain States has been the sending
> church for 8 foreign missionary families. During that time, MSBC has
> also been the sponsor of 10 new churches in Colorado. He earned his
> degrees from: North Texas Baptist College (Th.G. in Theology) Baptist
> Bible College West (B.A. in Theology) Evangelical Theological Seminary
> (M.S. in Clinical Pastoral Counseling) Louisiana Baptist University
> (Ph.D. in Psychology and Counseling). He holds an honorary Doctor of
> Divinity degree from Baptist Bible College West. He is an Honorary
> Alumnus of Baptist Bible College.
>
> Now let's stop right here. Did we all notice how he cited his honorary
> degree? Is he too honest for Jason's web site? Would he bring
> attention to Jason degree, or lack there of?
>
> David D.
>
Hmmm. This is interesting, and it is a point that I think Jason would do
well to take into consideration.
Jason may have what he considers to be adequate reasons for what he does,
but then, doesn't everyone? The last of the book of Judges says that in
those days, "everyone did that which was right in his own eyes", and I think
that Jason is just as infected with that disease of self as anyone.
In my opinion he should listen to these objections and make the appropriate
corrections. And while Jason appears to believe that the attacks on him are
wrong or simply validations that he is doing "God's work", he would do well
to note that other Christians have difficulties with the way things appear.
Self-promotion is not a Biblical quality, no matter how we might try to
disguise it or justify it.
I hope Jason will wake up to the right thing, here. But it is not easy for a
person in the ministry to admit that they, too, are full of self. Humility
is *hard*.
Regards,
Raymond E. Griffith
dEåÐåNGe£
let him be a scammer
we all need money
--
AIM: deadangell
http://profiles.myspace.com/users/9891627
"_AnonCoward" <a...@xyz.com> wrote in message
news:SDJZd.10720$nZ.8...@twister.southeast.rr.com...
> "Jason Gastrich" <usene...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:HrJZd.40875$VD5....@twister.socal.rr.com...
>
>
> <a bunch of nonsense designed to drive up traffic to his website>
>
>
David D. aa#2219 thanks to Gastrich
Hi Raymond,
An interesting thing to consider with Jason is that he is obsessed with
numbers. He views his site a success because it has 90,000 pages.
Quality does not seem to come into his equation. After a quick survey
it is obvious that they are mostly material that is not original with
Jason Gastrich.
For example: Just compare his essay about Yale at:
http://michaelnewdow.com/YaleCollege.htm
with the text for Yale at this page.
http://www.linda.net/academia.html
At first I thought that Jason was copying their content or they were
copying his content. When challenged on this potential plagerism issue
Gastrich responded to the accusation with the following:
(http://tinyurl.com/6jxgo),
QUOTE from Gastrich:
We got this quote from a paper book and not from this site. It's more
like an introduction than a quote, though. We generally try and
summarize these introductions.
We should cite the book on the main page of http://michaelnewdow.com.
There may be certain spots like this where it was quoted; albeit a
small quote.
END QUOTE from Gastrich.
So both linda.net and jcsm.org have copied text from the same book. In
both cases they have not cited the source and in both cases it comes
across as original writing.
In general this appears to happen all over the internet and is the
primary reason why the internet is becoming a terrible place for
information. The message becomes garbled every time it is transcribed
especially if selective passages are pasted out of context. With no way
of easily tracking down the primary sources the information is
worthless.
Clearly this is plagerism, but since 'everyone does it' it is somehow
acceptable. As you mention, it is NOT acceptable. All sources, even
when paraphrased should be cited otherwise the essay is next to useless
and accusations of plagerism are sure to make the writer look
fraudulent even if it is done in all innocence.
It is note worthy that Jason Gastrich will often cite web based sources
as his primary source (http://tinyurl.com/62jxm). A real scholar will
separate the wheat from the chaff on the internet. A naive scholar
will find the chaff that supports his case. I'm afraid that Jason
sits squarely in the latter camp.
If you are still interested in examples of this his shoddy and
willfully ignorant research skills follow an argument he had with Ken
Shaw regarding quotes that Gastrich had used that were supposedly from
James Madison (http://tinyurl.com/3zgxm). In summary, Shaw argued that
there was no evidence that Madison had said the things that Gastrich
attributed to him and he cited Madison scholars as well as Madison's
own written documents. Gastrich decided that his own internet sources
were more reliable. Read the whole thread because Gastrich's
intellectual integrity is far worse than I have summarized above.
Anyone with real academic integrity would cringe at the way Gastrich
behaved in that discussion. If he is representative of evangelical
Christians then there is a big problem and they will only become more
disconnected from reality as time goes on.
David D,
<snip>
_AnonCoward
_AnonCoward
:
: Raymond E. Griffith wrote:
<snip>
: > The bogus Ph.D. is one of them. And whether
Ralf:
Save the wounded feelings routine. Your misuse of the title "Dr." on
your various websites is inappropriate and you know it. That you persist
in purposefully presenting yourself as something you know you aren't is
sufficient evidence for folks to challenge your integrity. You aren't
bothered that you keep being challenged over the issue; you're annoyed
because people see through you.
When your title was challenged in the past, your response was SBC
awarded you an honorary doctorate because "The State of Florida has
given them the right" to do so (http://tinyurl.com/6leoq). However, as
with the title you use so conspicuously on your web sites, you are aware
that this statement is (at best) misleading.
At the time you were offering the defense of your title, SBC was
claiming it "grants degrees under the authority of the Florida State
Board of Independent Colleges and Universities in compliance with
Section 1005.06(1)(f), Florida Statutes". That statement was not
correct, however.
The FL DoE Commission for Independent Education (CIE) oversees
independent schools and colleges, authorizing them to offer diplomas and
degrees. However, religious schools such as SBC are allowed to operate
*without* government oversight so long as they submit a sworn affidavit
that they met certain criteria (see http://tinyurl.com/5a354 and scroll
down to item [f]). Further, CIE only allows schools like SBC to award
degrees so long "[t]he titles of degrees issued by the institution
cannot be confused with secular degree titles." Your usage of the title
Dr. on your websites violates that constraint. You are not legally
obligated to make that distinction since you are the recipient of the
award, not the grantor, but you have an ethical obligation to clarify
this when using the title.
Like you, SBC is distorting the facts in its claim in order to convey a
false impression. There is no authorization granted to SBC by the CIE -
instead, CIE gives schools like SBC release from governmental oversight.
SBC's claims at the time deliberately gave a false impression and you
use that to your advantage.
Btw, I checked out the CIE institutions directory
(http://www.firn.edu/doe/cie/pdf/directory.pdf) at the time you were
first making this claim and I could not find any reference to SBC. I
even went as far as to contact CIE and there wasn't any information
about the school. I'm not prepared to say SBC was making a fraudulent
claim at this point, but I find it very curious that CIE had no record
of this school.
None of this is addressed or clarified on the various web sites where
you identify yourself as "Dr." (http://jcsm.org/DrGastrich.htm,
http://jcsm.org/misc/JasonGastrich.htm, http://www.occm.org/Board.htm,
http://skepticsannotatedbible.org/). Instead you present the title in a
manner that gives the reader the false impression you received your
degree via traditional means (i.e.: you actually worked for it). One has
to dig hard and deep, on USENET no less, to learn the truth on the
issue.
If you were what you claim to be, you'd make this clear - specifically
in order to prevent anyone from reaching false conclusions about your
qualifications. You certainly are aware of the problem; one is thus
forced to conclude you don't want to provide this clarification because
it would sully the pedigree you are trying to create for yourself.
It is telling that the political website you created during the
California gubernatorial recall election in 2003 did *not* use the title
of Dr. You're just smart enough to realize that if you did somehow
manage to get some notoriety from this effort, the title of Dr. would
have blown up in your face. You evidently feel you don't run that risk
on your websites.
You'd probably be correct if you hadn't screwed up and tried to pull
that stunt on USENET. People who visit websites are generally passive
passive consumers of information, taking claims such as your title of
"Dr." at face value. However, you didn't consider that folks who
frequent USENET will question your claims, especially specious claims of
a Doctorate from a diploma mill like SBC.
Apart from CIE, SBC also referenced OCCM and WWAC as sources of
accreditation. OCCM is a "professional association" you founded. At the
time, SBC listed OCCM as an accrediting institution (it has since
changed that claim). In that same time frame you were granted an
"honorary" degree by SBC. This wouldn't be that big of a deal except
that it is part of a larger pattern of deceptive and misleading claims.
Taken in that context, this smacks of a convenient quid pro quo.
WWAC was the only listing that was an actual "accrediting" organization.
However, WWAC is pretty much a stand alone entity that is able to
accredit schools such as SBC simply because they say they can. They are
not recognized as an accrediting institution by anyone but themselves.
The website for WWAC is http://fgcfi.tripod.com/wwac.htm. Note that
this page states plainly that the WWAC is not recognized by the U.S.
Department of Education (nor by any other credible source from what I
can tell). WWAC defends its lack of formal recognition by appealing to
the bible.
"Theological Seminaries should not be accredited by accrediting
associations that are "recognized" by an agency of the federal
government, because it is contrary to the Biblical principle of
'Separation of Church and State,' indicated by Christ when He
said, '...Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and
to God the things that are God's...' (Mark 12:17).
"What business does a Christian educator have going to the world
of unbelievers for recognition and acknowledgement when 2
Corinthians 6:14 clearly tells us, 'Be ye not unequally yoked
together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness
with unrighteousness?'
"A Christian educational institution securing accreditation from
an association which is attached to a governmental agency is a
Scripturally condemned and unholy union as James 4:4 says, 'Ye
adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of
the world is enmity with God?'"
(So, should Mark 12:17 be quoted when folks challenge things like
mandatory school prayer?)
Btw, if anyone would like to see the size of the Shepherd Bible
"College" at it's Florida address, check this out:
http://tinyurl.com/4ojdv
No sir, you are not operating in an ethical or moral fashion. You are
consciously and intentionally presenting yourself as something you most
decidedly are not. You are just barely legal, skirting the limits of
illegality but never quite plunging in. Others in these news groups give
you the benefit of the doubt because you spout messages similar to their
own beliefs. They are more generous than I am - to me it's obvious you
are engaged in fraudulent behavior and are hiding behind the bible in
making your pitch.
Ralf
--
----------------------------------------------------------
* ^~^ ^~^ *
* _ {~ ~} {~ ~} _ *
* /_``>*< >*<''_\ *
* (\--_)++) (++(_--/) *
----------------------------------------------------------
There are no advanced students in Aikido - there are only
competent beginners. There are no advanced techniques -
only the correct application of basic principles.
_AnonCoward
: news:HrJZd.40875$VD5....@twister.socal.rr.com...
:
:
: <a bunch of nonsense designed to drive up traffic to his website>
:
:
: For those not unfamiliar with Jason Gastrich, be warned. It is my
belief
: that he is a scam artist who among other things falsly promotes
himself
: as a "Doctor" of theology (http://tinyurl.com/4d78b,
: http://tinyurl.com/53fz2) Here is a little information. See also
: http://tinyurl.com/65olj.
<snip>
As a matter of record, I did not repost this. According to the headers,
this was reposted by mind spring ...
X-Reposted-By: remov...@mindspring.com
X-Comments: This article is being re-posted. It was canceled
X-Comments: in error. For more information, please contact:
X-Comments: <remov...@mindspring.com>.
Ralf
lizzard woman
(snip)
| It is telling that the political website you created during the
| California gubernatorial recall election in 2003 did *not* use the title
| of Dr. You're just smart enough to realize that if you did somehow
| manage to get some notoriety from this effort, the title of Dr. would
| have blown up in your face. You evidently feel you don't run that risk
| on your websites.
I could be wrongt but I think his run for governor predated his ebing given
the honorarty doctorate. If so, thaht would explain why the page lacks the
"Dr." I believe he certainly would have included it had he been given it at
the time since he really feels he has a legitimate right to use the title.
--
sharon, aa #2153
"(of creationism) ... Only apocryphal tales told by goat herders around the
campfire after it became too dark to continue to molest their charges." --
TvG (Rec.Equestrian, 2003)
David D. aa#2219 thanks to Gastrich
> Like you, SBC is distorting the facts in its claim in order to convey
a
> false impression. There is no authorization granted to SBC by the CIE
-
> instead, CIE gives schools like SBC release from governmental
oversight.
> SBC's claims at the time deliberately gave a false impression and you
> use that to your advantage.
>
> Btw, I checked out the CIE institutions directory
> (http://www.firn.edu/doe/cie/pdf/directory.pdf) at the time you were
> first making this claim and I could not find any reference to SBC. I
> even went as far as to contact CIE and there wasn't any information
> about the school. I'm not prepared to say SBC was making a fraudulent
> claim at this point, but I find it very curious that CIE had no
record
> of this school.
> Apart from CIE, SBC also referenced OCCM and WWAC as sources of
> accreditation. OCCM is a "professional association" you founded. At
the
> time, SBC listed OCCM as an accrediting institution (it has since
> changed that claim). In that same time frame you were granted an
> "honorary" degree by SBC. This wouldn't be that big of a deal except
> that it is part of a larger pattern of deceptive and misleading
claims.
> Taken in that context, this smacks of a convenient quid pro quo.
Even more interesting is that Shepherd Bible College, where Gastrich
got his honorary degree, is no longer based in Largo FL, but seems to
have relocated to CA.
http://www.sbcollege.net/Contact%20Us%202.htm (see bottom)
Sure enough I did a 'way back' search for SBC on Gastrichs OCCM web
site and on Feb 05 2004 SBC was still in Largo with Dennis Tio named as
the contact person.
http://tinyurl.com/47djg
Quote (for the record)
Shepherd Bible College
Dr. Dennis A. Tio
1305 Delbar Ct. Suite A
Largo, Florida 33770
END Quote
However the current address is in CA and Dennis is seeking his privacy
http://www.occm.org/OurMembers.htm
Quote (for the record)
Shepherd Bible College
160 Chambers Street Suite 12
El Cajon, CA 92020
Ph: 1-619-588-1557
END Quote
I suppose Gastrich will have to update his resume that, at this point
(Nov 2004) still has the very agile SBC in Largo, FL.
http://jcsm.org/misc/JasonGastrich.htm
And let's not forget that El Cajon (the new home of SBC) is a suburb
of San Diego (where Gastrich lives). What are the chances that the
Gastrich's and Tio's go to the same church?
What are the chances that there are better tax breaks for religious
diploma mills in California?
And just in case people do not really understand the true nature of a
diploma mill read the following link that is a nice expose on diploma
mills.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories /2004/11/08/60II/main654319.shtml
START QUOTE (with regard to the really tough academic standard-NOT)
All those credits and her "life experience," over 15 years with the
government working with computers, qualified her, according to
Hamilton, to get her bachelor's and master's degrees. All she needed
was to take a 10-question ethics quiz and write a 2,000-word thesis,
which amounts to just four pages.
With degrees in hand, Callahan wanted more, and Hamilton was happy to
oblige. She wrote a lengthy dissertation and sent another check, and
$7,000 later, she was Dr. Laura Callahan, Ph.D.
Did she feel like she was just buying a degree? "I would feel that way
if I didn't do the work, if I didn't transfer in all the other prior
learning experiences, and if I didn't put in an honest effort into the
papers and the work that I did with Hamilton," says Callahan
END Quote
START Quote (with regard to tax exempt status and diploma mills being
very lucrative)
According to documents obtained by 60 Minutes Wednesday, Hamilton is
making between $500,000 and $2 million a year - tax-free.
Why is it tax-free? Because of a little church Marn built in the
parking lot. Even though it has no pews, and townspeople can't recall
ever seeing services here, it qualifies Hamilton as a tax-exempt
religious institution.
END Quote
David D.
Raymond E. Griffith
Ahh, yes. Numbers -- the idol of evangelism.
>
> For example: Just compare his essay about Yale at:
>
> http://michaelnewdow.com/YaleCollege.htm
>
> with the text for Yale at this page.
>
> http://www.linda.net/academia.html
Hmmmm.
>
> At first I thought that Jason was copying their content or they were
> copying his content. When challenged on this potential plagerism issue
> Gastrich responded to the accusation with the following:
> (http://tinyurl.com/6jxgo),
>
> QUOTE from Gastrich:
> We got this quote from a paper book and not from this site. It's more
> like an introduction than a quote, though. We generally try and
> summarize these introductions.
>
> We should cite the book on the main page of http://michaelnewdow.com.
> There may be certain spots like this where it was quoted; albeit a
> small quote.
> END QUOTE from Gastrich.
>
> So both linda.net and jcsm.org have copied text from the same book. In
> both cases they have not cited the source and in both cases it comes
> across as original writing.
Yep, that's what it appears. So little original thought nowadays!
>
> In general this appears to happen all over the internet and is the
> primary reason why the internet is becoming a terrible place for
> information. The message becomes garbled every time it is transcribed
> especially if selective passages are pasted out of context. With no way
> of easily tracking down the primary sources the information is
> worthless.
I would agree with you. Even on searches of material for which there should
not be much doubt, I have found contradictory information. I had to go with
what appeared to be the best source. For me, an internet source that has no
documentation as to where they got their material from is well-nigh
worthless.
>
> Clearly this is plagerism, but since 'everyone does it' it is somehow
> acceptable. As you mention, it is NOT acceptable.
Not one bit. And it bothers me greatly that people like Jason pass off this
kind of theft with a waved hand.
And yes, Jason, if you are reading this, plagiarism *is* theft. Even if you
are given wholesale rights to copy material, you are still honor-bound to
give your sources. If you are willing to tolerate theft, what other sins are
you willing to accommodate? Why should anyone believe that you are being
honorable?
> All sources, even
> when paraphrased should be cited otherwise the essay is next to useless
> and accusations of plagerism are sure to make the writer look
> fraudulent even if it is done in all innocence.
I completely agree. This is an area I feel very strongly about.
>
> It is note worthy that Jason Gastrich will often cite web based sources
> as his primary source (http://tinyurl.com/62jxm).
Well, what is the scripture? "If the blind lead the blind, both shall fall
into the ditch?" Sounds about right, I am afraid.
> A real scholar will
> separate the wheat from the chaff on the internet. A naive scholar
> will find the chaff that supports his case. I'm afraid that Jason
> sits squarely in the latter camp.
Yet Jason wants to be an authority, giving credibility and "certification"
to other ministries?
>
> If you are still interested in examples of this his shoddy and
> willfully ignorant research skills follow an argument he had with Ken
> Shaw regarding quotes that Gastrich had used that were supposedly from
> James Madison (http://tinyurl.com/3zgxm). In summary, Shaw argued that
> there was no evidence that Madison had said the things that Gastrich
> attributed to him and he cited Madison scholars as well as Madison's
> own written documents. Gastrich decided that his own internet sources
> were more reliable. Read the whole thread because Gastrich's
> intellectual integrity is far worse than I have summarized above.
> Anyone with real academic integrity would cringe at the way Gastrich
> behaved in that discussion. If he is representative of evangelical
> Christians then there is a big problem and they will only become more
> disconnected from reality as time goes on.
>
> David D,
> <snip>
>
>
Ow! Ow! It hurts!
Well, I could have (and did) hope for better for Jason. Maybe I was wrong.
It is a sure bet that Jason won't listen to anything I have to say if he
won't listen to the reasonable arguments others have put forward. A pity.
Regards,
Raymond E. Griffith
Grendel
It hurts to be kicked, even when you get kicked by a mule(s). I am sure
Jason has the sense to consider the source of this relatively pointless
inquisition by you and other bible-scoffers and assorted atheists.
But anyway Raymond, glad to see you using that gift of criticism to
further the kingdom.
>
> Regards,
>
> Raymond E. Griffith
>
>
David D. aa#2219 thanks to Gastrich
Mmmm? so mindlessly following people who claim to be
promoting God helps the Kingdom? In that case how will
you ever be able to tell the difference between God and
Satan? Do you think Satan will be obvious? Fool.
David D.
Grendel
So the choices so far are:
Door # 1 Jason G.
Behind this we see a website full of good Christian resources and
encouragements. Gee, there's even lots of gospel/salvation information.
Oh, and I see Jason has spent a considerable amount of time writing an
excellent reply to some bon a fide bible scoffers called the "Skeptics
annotated Bible corrected and explained.
Over 3,000 answers to tough questions about the scriptures. Understand,
discover, and defend the Bible's harmony and inerrancy!
And in all that , in some small corner, we see some debatable titles
that have nothing to do with the quality of his work, titles that mean
zero in the end anyway.
Door # 2 Bible scoffers David D. and Raymond G. and assorted atheists
and evolutionists and other non-Christian types.
Behind this door we see no evidence of anything remotely promoting
Christianity or the gospel or salvation.
Oh, we do see lots of pettiness, criticism and general anti-Christian
material.
<put on lab coat>
Mmmmmnnn....I think we can see a difference here Dave. I mean, it don't
even look close buddy! A Christian, after examining the evidence here,
would most certainly go for door # 1.
<lab coat off>
Science and the scientific method wins again.
>
> David D.
>
Raymond E. Griffith
> Raymond E. Griffith wrote:
> > "David D. aa#2219 thanks to Gastrich" <da...@hotmail.com> wrote in
message
> > news:1111078895.5...@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> >
> >>Raymond E. Griffith wrote:
> >>
>
> >>
> >>
> >
> > Ow! Ow! It hurts!
> >
> > Well, I could have (and did) hope for better for Jason. Maybe I was
wrong.
> > It is a sure bet that Jason won't listen to anything I have to say if he
> > won't listen to the reasonable arguments others have put forward. A
pity.
>
> It hurts to be kicked, even when you get kicked by a mule(s).
Well, if in your opinion I am an "ass", then you might be reminded that
Balaam was rebuked by one (appropriately), and that the Lord Jesus rode on
one.
Seems like asses don't get their share of respect.
> I am sure
> Jason has the sense to consider the source of this relatively pointless
> inquisition by you and other bible-scoffers and assorted atheists.
Honesty in the ministry is relatively pointless? Hoo boy! And you call
yourself a Christian!
My dear Jist, have you never read *any* of the epistles of Paul? Or don't
you think that Christianity goes beyond mere "belief" into practical action?
Oh wait -- you think that "being a hearer of the word and not a doer" is a
command, not a rebuke? Right?
>
> But anyway Raymond, glad to see you using that gift of criticism to
> further the kingdom.
>
Actually, Jist, if *you* were to receive such criticism, the kingdom might
be furthered in you. "A person who is often rebuked but hardens his neck
(refuses to listen) shall suddenly and without remedy be destroyed."
I will not rejoice at your downfall if it happens. Nor will I rejoice at
Jason's. But I am afraid I expect it.
Now I know you have this thing about Christians always sticking up for other
Christians, right or wrong (with myself being an exception!). But might I
remind you that the family of Aachan hid his sin because he was family and
the head of their household. And they suffered his fate. We are not to be
partakers of others' sins, nor bid those who are in sin godspeed.
Regards,
Raymond E. Griffith
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Raymond E. Griffith
> >
> >
Grendel
> "Grendel" <na...@trynot.com> wrote in message
> news:blk_d.62598$gJ3.49331@clgrps13...
>
>>Raymond E. Griffith wrote:
>>
>>>"David D. aa#2219 thanks to Gastrich" <da...@hotmail.com> wrote in
>
> message
>
>>>news:1111078895.5...@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
>>>
>>>
>>>>Raymond E. Griffith wrote:
>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>>Ow! Ow! It hurts!
>>>
>>>Well, I could have (and did) hope for better for Jason. Maybe I was
>
> wrong.
>
>>>It is a sure bet that Jason won't listen to anything I have to say if he
>>>won't listen to the reasonable arguments others have put forward. A
>
> pity.
>
>>It hurts to be kicked, even when you get kicked by a mule(s).
>
>
> Well, if in your opinion I am an "ass", then you might be reminded that
> Balaam was rebuked by one (appropriately), and that the Lord Jesus rode on
> one.
>
> Seems like asses don't get their share of respect.
Considering your generous and skillful use of your gift of criticism
Raymond, I can hardly understand why that is.
Harvest Dancer
Actually, you give too much credit. Gastrich has shown some skill as a
web designer, and has chosen religion as the topic of his webpage, but
there is disinformation on his web page as well as in his book.
Really, you should examine the book he wrote, because it doesn't have
3000 answers.
We see 90,000 pages, including one page per picture from recent zoo
trips without any explanation of what it means religiously.
We see phony "distinguised alumni" pages.
We see plagarized pages.
We do not see the work of God on any of these pages, but we do see an
ego that is someone's god.
> Door # 2 Bible scoffers David D. and Raymond G. and assorted
atheists
> and evolutionists and other non-Christian types.
>
> Behind this door we see no evidence of anything remotely promoting
> Christianity or the gospel or salvation.
> Oh, we do see lots of pettiness, criticism and general anti-Christian
> material.
Door # 3 Genuine people of faith who are appalled at Gastrich's antics.
Behind this door we see genuinely caring people who are are disgusted
by the lies, dismayed that Gastrich is driving people away from
religion itself.
> <put on lab coat>
> Mmmmmnnn....I think we can see a difference here Dave. I mean, it
don't
> even look close buddy! A Christian, after examining the evidence
here,
> would most certainly go for door # 1.
> <lab coat off>
A Christian, after examining the evidnce, would most certainly go for
door # 3.
> Science and the scientific method wins again.
Only after exploring all options, you are right.
Jason Harvestdancer
David D. aa#2219 thanks to Gastrich
I see you also subscribe the Gastrich doctorine of with (Christian) or
against (atheist) me. Reality shows there are plenty of against
(theist).
Door 2 can be David D. and other assorted atheists, but why do you
ignore Door 3?
Door 3 is the likes of Raymond G. and other theists (Christians).
There is also door four that includes theists (not Christians).
Limiting the choice to two doors seems like a trap that Satan has set
for you. You might consider some rational thought before grabbing
the wrong handle.
For Satan, it appears that trapping Christians is like shooting fish in
a barrel.
David D.
David D. aa#2219 thanks to Gastrich
Don'r forget Door 4, Genuine people of faith who are appalled at
Gastrich's antics but are NOT Christians.
Harvest Dancer
I seem to have forgotten to address this point ... So, what does
Grendel think about theists who understand and accept the scientific
validity of evolution? What does Grendel think about Christians who
understand and accept the scientific validity of evolution?
Does a Christian who understands evolution become a non-Christian?
> > > Behind this door we see no evidence of anything remotely
promoting
> > > Christianity or the gospel or salvation.
> > > Oh, we do see lots of pettiness, criticism and general
> > > anti-Christian material.
> >
> > Door # 3 Genuine people of faith who are appalled at Gastrich's
> > antics.
> >
> > Behind this door we see genuinely caring people who are are
disgusted
> > by the lies, dismayed that Gastrich is driving people away from
> > religion itself.
>
> Don'r forget Door 4, Genuine people of faith who are appalled at
> Gastrich's antics but are NOT Christians.
I didn't limit door 3 to Christians. I'm a Pagan, and I'm standing
next to real Christians behind door 3.
Jason Harvestdancer
Jason Gastrich
I included every single graduate level alumni that I could find on the
internet. Plus, I tried to find the ones with pictures and doing something
in Jesus' name, today.
> But it certainly *seems* pretentious. Especially to those who already
> see too close a connection between your organization and the one
> which awarded you your honorary degree.
You're getting confused. SBC awarded me my Th.D. I earned my M.A. and I'm
pursuing my Ph.D. through LBU.
> I see that OCCM uses
> "Certification" and "Authentication" instead of "Accreditation", but
> I confess that it gives me a bad feeling. Nothing is said as to how
> your organization certifies or authenticates other ministries.
This isn't true, either. Have you visited our site? Our standards are very
clear. Link: http://www.occm.org/JoinOCCM.htm
--
David D. aa#2219 thanks to Gastrich
Why are you critical of a fellow Christian who calls out a known liar?
Are you somehow benefiting from his scams? Worse are you tithing to
his ministry? If so then you are a victim and need to open your eyes.
If not, then are you a similar predatory creature as Gastrich? Are
Christians your prey?
Since Grendel was a murderous troll I can assume you are the latter.
Iy seems as if you have chosen the name with thought. Afterall we know
that Grendal was one of the creatures that survived the flood and his
seed gos back to Cain. He had no regard to law or custom. You chose
your handle name well.
Grendel this monster grim was called,
march-riever mighty, in moorland living,
in fen and fastness; fief of the giants
the hapless wight a while had kept
since the Creator his exile doomed.
On kin of Cain was the killing avenged
by sovran God for slaughtered Abel.
Ill fared his feud, and far was he driven,
for the slaughter's sake, from sight of men.
Of Cain awoke all that woful breed,
Etins and elves and evil-spirits,
as well as the giants that warred with God
weary while: but their wage was paid them!
David D.
David D. aa#2219 thanks to Gastrich
David D. aa#2219 thanks to Gastrich wrote:
> Grendel wrote:
> > Raymond E. Griffith wrote:
> > > "Grendel" <na...@trynot.com> wrote in message
> > >
> > >
> > > Well, if in your opinion I am an "ass", then you might be
> > > reminded that Balaam was rebuked by one (appropriately),
> > > and that the Lord Jesus rode on one. Seems like asses
> > > don't get their share of respect.
> >
> > Considering your generous and skillful use of your gift of
> > criticism Raymond, I can hardly understand why that is.
>
> Why are you critical of a fellow Christian who calls out a known
liar?
OK, I need to pre-empt your prove it retort.
Here are some examples with plenty of proof that Gastrich lies.
He has been dishonest about his Th.D. and uses the prefix
"Dr." in a way that would suggest he earned the degree. If
you want more information here is one of many links that
can be found on usenet (http://tinyurl.com/62heb). Notice
he was not only dishonest about his degree but he created
an alumni page of a university to give the impressin he was
a distinguished alumni despite his name not appearing on
the real alumni page.
He forged an e-mail from some called Farrell Till and wrote
in that e-mail that he had "gay urges". This was specifically
designed to embarrass Till and was clearly fradulent. If you
want more information here is one of many links that can be
found on usenet (http://tinyurl.com/5vf4k). Gastrichs
version of events is that he admited this fraud and has
apologised. What he fails to mention is that he refused to
admit he had actually done it until he got nailed due to his PI
number being associated with the post. He only admitted he
had done it after being challenged with proof that he could
not deny.
He filed a frivalous lawsuit over an alleged copyright
infringement. This was particularly malicious since he never
even showed up in court to defend himself and was designed
to make Durango Bill hire a lawyer to defend himself. If you
want more information here is one linkand many others can
be found on usenet
(http://www.durangobill.com/Jas onLawsuit.html). When
questioned about said lawsuit he claimed he filed for $200
damages but in fact the real court documents show it was in
fact $2000. He has yet to address this blatent lie despite
claiming that he had proof that he filed for $200. His only
excuse to date it that the court made a mistake and he has
posted their phone number. Hardly proof.
There were some issues with a company called Hot Lava
Software where he broke his agreement with regard to his
advertising subcontract. Once busted on this issue HLS broke
off the contract with Jason since he had acted in bad faith. If
you want more information here is one of many links that can
be found on usenet (http://tinyurl.com/4seja).
There are more examples but this should be enough to
convince anyone that he should not be trusted. There is a
consistent pattern of Gastrich being caught in his web of lies.
This problem seems to be chronic.
David D.
lizzard woman
| Raymond Griffith wrote:
(snip)
| > But it certainly *seems* pretentious. Especially to those who already
| > see too close a connection between your organization and the one
| > which awarded you your honorary degree.
|
| You're getting confused. SBC awarded me my Th.D. I earned my M.A. and
I'm
| pursuing my Ph.D. through LBU.
No I think he's referring to OCCM which is your organization.
So he is correct in that:
1. OCCM (your organization) "recognizes" SBC, then
2. SBC awards you an honoray doctorate (against their own rules which
require the recipient to be at least 30 y.o. and your were 29)
Relaxing the age requirement per se draws some attention to the award in my
opinon.
David D. aa#2219 thanks to Gastrich
lizzard woman wrote:
> "Jason Gastrich" <usene...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:l%o_d.51158$xX3....@twister.socal.rr.com...
> | Raymond Griffith wrote:
>
> (snip)
>
> | > But it certainly *seems* pretentious. Especially to those who
already
> | > see too close a connection between your organization and the one
> | > which awarded you your honorary degree.
> |
> | You're getting confused. SBC awarded me my Th.D. I earned my M.A.
and
> I'm
> | pursuing my Ph.D. through LBU.
>
> No I think he's referring to OCCM which is your organization.
>
> So he is correct in that:
>
> 1. OCCM (your organization) "recognizes" SBC, then
> 2. SBC awards you an honoray doctorate (against their own rules
which
> require the recipient to be at least 30 y.o. and your were 29)
>
> Relaxing the age requirement per se draws some attention to the award
in my
> opinon.
There are some other interesting connection with SBC too.
For example, Shepherd Bible College, where Gastrich
got his honorary degree, is no longer based in Largo FL, but seems to
have relocated to CA.
http://www.sbcollege.net/Conta ct%20Us%202.htm (see bottom)
A 'way back' search for SBC on Gastrichs OCCM web site shows
that on Feb 05 2004 SBC was still in Largo with Dennis Tio
named as the contact person.
http://tinyurl.com/47djg
Quote (for the record)
Shepherd Bible College
Dr. Dennis A. Tio
1305 Delbar Ct. Suite A
Largo, Florida 33770
END Quote
However the current address is in CA and Dennis is seeking his privacy
http://www.occm.org/OurMembers .htm
Quote (for the record)
Shepherd Bible College
160 Chambers Street Suite 12
El Cajon, CA 92020
Ph: 1-619-588-1557
END Quote
Gastrich still has to update his resume that, at this point
(Mar 2005) he still has the very agile SBC in Largo, FL.
http://jcsm.org/misc/JasonGastrich.htm
And let's not forget that El Cajon (the new home of SBC) is a suburb
of San Diego (where Gastrich lives). What are the chances that the
Gastrich's and Tio's go to the same church?
This is the type of coincidence that makes you realise
that I.D. ists have a point.
David D.
lizzard woman
Good point.
So Shepherd Bible College is one guy living out of an apartment who probably
holds no legit degree himself? And this one guy awarded Gastrich an
honorary doctorate?
Given that, I am awarding you, David D., an honorary doctorate from here in
my home in Calgary, Alberta (I'm a US expatriate soon to return to the
States).
I am awarding it in the field of "Gastrichology."
Congrats!
JISTASKKIN
I am critical of anyone who makes petty accusations.
> Are you somehow benefiting from his scams?
Scam!?! What exactly is he doing that could be labeled a scam?
Worse are you tithing to
> his ministry? If so then you are a victim and need to open your eyes.
> If not, then are you a similar predatory creature as Gastrich? Are
> Christians your prey?
>
> Since Grendel was a murderous troll I can assume you are the latter.
You assume wrong. Coincidentally, that's something you appear to do very
well... and frequently.
Everyone needs to be good at something I guess.
> Iy seems as if you have chosen the name with thought. Afterall we know
> that Grendal was one of the creatures that survived the flood and his
> seed gos back to Cain. He had no regard to law or custom. You chose
> your handle name well.
I chose the handle because I like java. (not coffee)
Do you grok that?
I have answered some of your questions.
So....Are you a Christian David?
>
> Grendel this monster grim was called,
> march-riever mighty, in moorland living,
> in fen and fastness; fief of the giants
> the hapless wight a while had kept
> since the Creator his exile doomed.
> On kin of Cain was the killing avenged
> by sovran God for slaughtered Abel.
> Ill fared his feud, and far was he driven,
> for the slaughter's sake, from sight of men.
> Of Cain awoke all that woful breed,
> Etins and elves and evil-spirits,
> as well as the giants that warred with God
> weary while: but their wage was paid them!
That's nice. Here is the real history of where I got the handle from.
Grendel is a mail/news reader entirely written in Java. Its goal is to be a
true cross-platform application with a feature set that satisfies the
poweruser.
http://www.mozilla.org/projects/grendel/
Do you feel silly yet?
How about now?
Now?
Now?
Is it slowly sinking in? Now?
Feel silly now?
Now?
>
> David D.
>
Jason Gastrich
Did you have a chance to hear the devotional mp3?
By the way, I can't remember asking you about your faith. Would you mind
sharing?
God bless you,
David D. aa#2219 thanks to Gastrich
I made that clear above. There are four doors.
Mine is two but you ignored doors three and four.
Not as silly as a Christian who chooses a hellspawn name
as their online identity. Get a clue.
JISTASKKIN
>
> JISTASKKIN wrote:
>> "David D. aa#2219 thanks to Gastrich" <da...@hotmail.com> wrote in
> message
>> news:1111105140.5...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
>> >
>>
>> Do you grok that?
>>
>> I have answered some of your questions.
>> So....Are you a Christian David?
>
>
> I made that clear above. There are four doors.
> Mine is two but you ignored doors three and four.
Two? Sorry, a little confusion here. Totally my fault. Clarification.: I
did not ask how many sides of your mouth you enjoy speaking from, nor did I
ask your last IQ score.
I asked if you were a Christian. I see a simple question is beyond you. Yea
or nay?
You know Dave, I admittedly don't know all the details of your accusations
made of Jason.
So, not much point judging anybody so far.
But, I do know how I came to choose my handle, and it had nothing to do with
a demon character.
I even made a reference to the real history of that handle when I first
started using it here and in T.O.
So, based on what I do know, and what you are claiming on the issue I am
very familiar with, I can say you are being a dishonest liar.
You owe me an apology for your demonstrably false accusations.
>
JISTASKKIN
> Hi JISTASKKIN and welcome back to free.christians.
Hi back atcha Jason.
>
> Did you have a chance to hear the devotional mp3?
Not all of it yet, but what I did listen to sounded great.
>
> By the way, I can't remember asking you about your faith. Would you mind
> sharing?
Oooo boy. I will summarize.
Saved early at a bible camp.
Raised Baptist.
Backslid for many years <sordid details>....began asking questions. Found
my way back to severing the Lord.
Spent a good portion of time in fellowship in a"brethren assembly"
Slowly realized they had lots of knowledge,but short on love.
Began church hopping....looking for the perfect church....made doubly
difficult because of all the "knowledge" I acquired in the assembly.
Big turning point was the creation/evolution issue which surfaced in my life
at this time.
Delved into it. Tried to reconcile it, but scripture is just too clear.
Started involving myself in creation
activities...conferences...events..etc..etc.
Settled in a slightly conservative church at the moment. I am way more
comfortable with conservative Christians than they are with me.
I enjoy many activities that have them cringing, but my theology is sound,
thanks to the assemblies, so they tolerate my liberal antics.
Love Christian contemp music...just can't get enough of the latest from
"Casting Crowns"
Anyway...gotta go, how about you?
P.S I noticed an extremely high level of demonic attack when I began the
public creation activities. I can't even imagine what Satan plans for a
public figure such as yourself. Did you find yourself attacked more the
more public you took your faith?
David D. aa#2219 thanks to Gastrich
JISTASKKIN wrote:
> "David D. aa#2219 thanks to Gastrich" <da...@hotmail.com> wrote in
message
> news:1111107554.6...@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > JISTASKKIN wrote:
> >> "David D. aa#2219 thanks to Gastrich" <da...@hotmail.com> wrote in
> > message
> >> news:1111105140.5...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> >> >
> >>
> >> I chose the handle because I like java. (not coffee)
> >> Do you grok that?
> >>
> >> I have answered some of your questions.
> >> So....Are you a Christian David?
> >
> >
> > I made that clear above. There are four doors.
> > Mine is two but you ignored doors three and four.
>
> Two? Sorry, a little confusion here. Totally my fault.
Clarification.: I
> did not ask how many sides of your mouth you enjoy speaking from,
nor did I
> ask your last IQ score.
> I asked if you were a Christian. I see a simple question is beyond
you. Yea
> or nay?
nay. Have your forgotten that you yourself defined Door 2 as the
atheists in this very thread? I thought that was your nomenclature.
http://tinyurl.com/52wxk
My comments with reagrd to your name have nothing to do with
lies or dishonesty. It is a fact that you have picked a name that
is associated with hellspawn.
Why do you think the JAVA programmers picked that name?
> You owe me an apology for your demonstrably false accusations.
It's ironic that you picked that name but has nothing to do with my
honesty. I certainly do not owe you an apology.
My observations about you and your defence of Jason are all based
on your posts in this thread. Since you have no problem attacking
Raymond G., who is a Christian, it seems that in fact you do
discriminate between 'good' and 'bad' Christians. Indeed it is
revealing that you choose Jason over Raymond G. in this argument.
Why?
David D.
Raymond Griffith
on 03/17/05 3:28 PM:
A hint: You hate the criticism because you are fundamentally dishonest. Yet
Jesus criticized bad behavior of the disciples, and the other writings of
the NT criticize bad behavior of Christians. We are admonished to "walk
worthy of the Lord" -- a point which you seem to have completely ignored.
Paul told Timothy to "Reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and
doctrine". Reproof and rebuking (read "criticism") are an essential part of
the Christian walk, for we often find ourselves astray. Except, of course,
for those who close their eyes and never open them to find out where they
are!
I find it highly amusing that you call *me* a "Bible Scoffer" when you scoff
at its instructions all the time. And in our communications, it is easy to
see that I have quoted Scripture far more than you have -- only to have you
clip it and dismiss it as "Bible scoffing".
I hope you enjoy your functional atheism -- for that is what you have.
Regards,
Raymond E. Griffith
David D. aa#2219 thanks to Gastrich
Are you a biblical literalist Grendel/jistaskkin? Their message seems
to involve
faith beyond reason. That people question the assumptions that
literalists make, let alone their cherry picking of the bible to suit
their beliefs is not the same as attacking. Certainly not the same as
a demonic attack, or are your refering to other more sinister attacks?
Jason believes the Bible is inerrant but cannot back up these claims
in serious debates.
I would be interested to see what you think about the critics who
challenge Gastrich's attempts to resolve the 'so called' biblical
errors? See: http://www.garstrich.org for more details.
David D.
David D. aa#2219 thanks to Gastrich
da...@hotmail.com
I'm honored, is that an M.D. or merely a Ph.D. ;)
SBC is definitely a husband/wife team. I am wondering, based on no
evidence at all, whether SBC will soon be part of the Gastrich empire.
Afterall, degree giving capabilities is something that JCSM currently
lacks. I am pretty sure that the degree granting business is more
lucrative than his current business. I suspect that once he gets his
Ph.D. he will magically become chancellor of SBC.
You read it here first.
David D.
Mike Painter
>>>> That's nice. Here is the real history of where I got the handle
>>>> from.
>>>>
>>>> Grendel is a mail/news reader entirely written in Java. Its goal
>>>> is to be a true cross-platform application with a feature set that
>>>> satisfies the
>>>
How quickly the thread moved from actually helping people or even discussing
the "devotional" (remove quotes if you call it devotional to Jason)
But if you are saved you don't have to worry about actually getting your
hands dirty taking care of people.
Any guilt can be assuaged with snacks, singing and bibles.
Ralph Page
news:l%o_d.51158$xX3....@twister.socal.rr.com...
Jason, it appears then, that your definition of 'distinguished' runs
along the lines of 'individuals that Jason Gastrich was able to find
on the web'.
I think you will agree that this is a very unconventional definition
of the word.
-Ralph Page
<snip>
lizzard woman
<da...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1111115343.6...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Both. You were in a joint MD/PhD program, remember?
| SBC is definitely a husband/wife team. I am wondering, based on no
| evidence at all, whether SBC will soon be part of the Gastrich empire.
| Afterall, degree giving capabilities is something that JCSM currently
| lacks. I am pretty sure that the degree granting business is more
| lucrative than his current business. I suspect that once he gets his
| Ph.D. he will magically become chancellor of SBC.
|
| You read it here first.
I'll credit you with the point when it happens. I agree that once Gastrich
finds he can rake some money in by granting degree mill degrees, he'll be
all over it.
I am amending your degree to MD/PhD with honors.
Mike Painter
A Google of "Worldwide Accreditation Commission of Christian Educational
Institutions" yields only about 38 hits and a lot of these lead to the same
pages eveen though they have different names.
So SBC is accredited by WACCEI and "The Worldwide Accreditation Commission
of Christian Educational Institutions is not recognized by the U.S.
Department of Education."
Disclaimer Policy: All degrees awarded by Shepherd Bible College at this
time, are solely for religious vocations. Transferability of credits earned
at SBC and transferred to another institution is at the discretion of the
receiving institution.
After looking at their requirements and course description I can see why.
Then there is
http://www.sbcollege.net/Required%20Papers%20for%20Earned%20Degrees.htm and
you'll have to read that yourself.
WARNING: Do not have liquids in your mouth whilre reading. I am not
responsible for coffeee on monitors or in keyboards.
Grendel
Oh contraire, you are making overtly slanderous comments by associating
the handle to something you now know to be false.
It is a fact that you have picked a name that
> is associated with hellspawn.
No, as already pointed out, that is wrong.
>
> Why do you think the JAVA programmers picked that name?
>
>
>>You owe me an apology for your demonstrably false accusations.
>
>
> It's ironic that you picked that name but has nothing to do with my
> honesty. I certainly do not owe you an apology.
Yes you do.
>
> My observations about you and your defence of Jason are all based
> on your posts in this thread.
My judgment of you is now based on your demonstrably false accusation
with regards to my handle. Anything else you claim or say from this
point on is to be assumed erroneous or slanderous.
Since you have no problem attacking
> Raymond G., who is a Christian, it seems that in fact you do
> discriminate between 'good' and 'bad' Christians. Indeed it is
> revealing that you choose Jason over Raymond G. in this argument.
>
> Why?
Courtesy of answering that question will not be offered.
>
> David D.
>
Grendel
It may seem that way to the unlearned, but I can assure you my God does
not ask me to blindly follow him
That people question the assumptions that
> literalists make, let alone their cherry picking of the bible to suit
> their beliefs is not the same as attacking. Certainly not the same as
> a demonic attack, or are your refering to other more sinister attacks?
I was referring to spiritual realm activity.
>
> Jason believes the Bible is inerrant but cannot back up these claims
> in serious debates.
>
> I would be interested to see what you think about the critics who
> challenge Gastrich's attempts to resolve the 'so called' biblical
> errors? See: http://www.garstrich.org for more details.
Since I already know you are dishonest and without honor, I don't even
have to look at your claims to assume it is you who is in error.
Good day,
jist
>
> David D.
>
Grendel
Unbelievable, you are actually proud of it. Listen closely Raymond,
there are many, many men and women who are capable to correct me, you
are not one of them. Especially with your amateurish and sloppy exegesis.
>
> I find it highly amusing that you call *me* a "Bible Scoffer" when you scoff
> at its instructions all the time. And in our communications, it is easy to
> see that I have quoted Scripture far more than you have -- only to have you
> clip it and dismiss it as "Bible scoffing".
Raymond ,it is in fact you who denys essential straightforward teaching
of scripture because......get this.....the only reason you do it ( and
willingly so) is to defend your belief in evolution. Scripture does not
support you in any way shape or form. And it just burns you that you
can't weasel your way out of it by using scripture.
>
> I hope you enjoy your functional atheism -- for that is what you have.
Grow up Raymond. It's high time to leave your little sandbox of
name-calling don't ya think?
>
> Regards,
>
> Raymond E. Griffith
>
Grendel
Is that supposed to be a joke? Are you trying to mock Christians?
>
>
_AnonCoward
"lizzard woman" <kimosa...@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:6Hj_d.711280$6l.482548@pd7tw2no...
:
: "_AnonCoward" <a...@xyz.com> wrote in message
: news:5zj_d.39085$_i3.1...@twister.southeast.rr.com...
:
: (snip)
:
: | It is telling that the political website you created during the
: | California gubernatorial recall election in 2003 did *not* use the
: | title of Dr. You're just smart enough to realize that if you did
: | somehow manage to get some notoriety from this effort, the title of
: | Dr. would have blown up in your face. You evidently feel you don't
: | run that risk on your websites.
:
: I could be wrongt but I think his run for governor predated his ebing
: given the honorarty doctorate. If so, thaht would explain why the
: page lacks the "Dr." I believe he certainly would have included it
: had he been given it at the time since he really feels he has a
: legitimate right to use the title.
Ralf:
Point taken - I belive you are correct regarding the timing. I have
corrected my initial posting accordingly.
Ralf
--
-------------------------------------------------------------
* ^~^ ^~^ *
* _ {| |} {| |} _ *
* /_``>*< >*<''_\ *
* (\--_)++) (++(_--/) *
-------------------------------------------------------------
Nature is the canvas of creation and evolution but one of
the brushes. Religion points to the mind of God; Science
reveals its unfolding. The subjective apprehends knowledge
while the objective facilitates understanding.
In all things, yin and yang - ever flowing, one into the
other; always overtaking, always overtaken.
Raymond E. Griffith
> there are many, many men and women who are capable to correct me, you
> are not one of them. Especially with your amateurish and sloppy exegesis.
>
As opposed to your own amateurish and sloppy exegesis? And of course,
snipping out entire sections of quoted Scripture and calling it "Bible
scoffing"?
You need to grow up. And the Lord does not always send who we want to
correct us. Sometimes it is someone you might despise. God uses even that.
>
> >
> > I find it highly amusing that you call *me* a "Bible Scoffer" when you
scoff
> > at its instructions all the time. And in our communications, it is easy
to
> > see that I have quoted Scripture far more than you have -- only to have
you
> > clip it and dismiss it as "Bible scoffing".
>
> Raymond ,it is in fact you who denys essential straightforward teaching
> of scripture because......get this.....the only reason you do it ( and
> willingly so) is to defend your belief in evolution. Scripture does not
> support you in any way shape or form. And it just burns you that you
> can't weasel your way out of it by using scripture.
Burns me? Well, you have no access to my thoughts, other than what I put
down here. But you are wrong, Jisty old boy, as usual. You can deny the
reality found in God's creation, and you can deny certain straightforward
readings of the Scripture in defense of your pet doctrines. That is up to
you. But your way leads to fear and hatred -- and it shows.
And I note that you have not answered what I wrote. I have quoted Scripture,
without comment even, and had you snip it as Bible scoffing -- when I agreed
perfectly with an "essential straightforward teaching" of it.
Yes, I know you hate me because of the evolution thingy. But your hatred is
taking you to some really bizzare places. You might want to think about it.
And I know you would rather I just go to Hell. You've told me to. You'd be
gratified if I declared myself an atheist.
And if my faith in Christ depended on people like you, I just might have. I
have tested your ability to teach theology, and found it wanting. You have
no answers and you will not answer any questions. You really provide no
reason for a person to trust Christ at all.
But my faith in Christ does not depend on you. I have put my trust in Him to
save me from my sins, both now in practical terms and forever. And Jist,
since I have called upon the name of the Lord and asked Him to save me,
guess what? You cannot undo what He has done. I not only trust Him, I intend
to live by His precepts, God helping me.
> >
> > I hope you enjoy your functional atheism -- for that is what you have.
>
> Grow up Raymond. It's high time to leave your little sandbox of
> name-calling don't ya think?
Hmmm. Hello Pot. Hello Kettle!
But as long as you profess faith without obedience and countenance sin in
yourself and others, you effectively deny Him with your works. That was a
position Paul decried in Titus. You do not want that to happen to you.
Have a good day Jist. Find joy.
Regards,
Raymond E. Griffith
>
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Raymond E. Griffith
> >
_AnonCoward
I need to correct part of my previous post on at least two points.
First, there is this statement:
: It is telling that the political website you created during the
: California gubernatorial recall election in 2003 did *not* use the
: title of Dr. You're just smart enough to realize that if you did
: somehow manage to get some notoriety from this effort, the title of
: Dr. would have blown up in your face. You evidently feel you don't
: run that risk on your websites.
It was pointed out that this site was created *before* Jason was
awareded his degree by SBC. I can't definitively confirm or refute this
but it does appear to be correct. I therefore retact the statement
above.
Secondly, I stated:
: Apart from CIE, SBC also referenced OCCM and WWAC as sources of
: accreditation. OCCM is a "professional association" you founded. At
: the time, SBC listed OCCM as an accrediting institution (it has
: since changed that claim). In that same time frame you were granted
: an "honorary" degree by SBC. This wouldn't be that big of a deal
: except that it is part of a larger pattern of deceptive and
: misleading claims. Taken in that context, this smacks of a convenient
: quid pro quo.
This is technically incorrect. I was able to view some early versions of
the SBC web pages at http://www.archive.org (the site at the time was
http://tfsshepherduniversity.com/Accreditation.htm). According to this
resource, OCCM is first listed on the accreditation page on the April
20, 2003 archive (the previous archive, Feb 17, 2003, does not list
OCCM). This page does not call OCCM an accrediting institution as my
comments above state. It is for this reason that my comments are
technically incorrect.
However, I am not retracting that statement for the following reasons.
OCCM is listed on this page (under the heading "Institutional
Accreditation and Affiliations") along with WWAC and the CIE. At that
time, no reference was made to list OCCM as having accredited SBC but
the inference is clear. This could simply be an unintentional
misstatement by the author of the page. As with the first statement, I
see no reason to assume otherwise at this time. With that in mind, I
correct this statement to read:
: Apart from CIE, SBC also referenced OCCM and WWAC as sources of
: accreditation. OCCM is a "professional association" you founded. At
: the time, SBC listed OCCM on their accreditation page without
: clarifying that OCCM was strictly an affiliation (it has since
: changed that claim). In that same time frame you were granted an
: "honorary" degree by SBC.
The rest of the statement stands as written:
: This wouldn't be that big of a deal
: except that it is part of a larger pattern of deceptive and
: misleading claims. Taken in that context, this smacks of a convenient
: quid pro quo.
Ralf
--
----------------------------------------------------------
* ^~^ ^~^ *
* _ {~ ~} {~ ~} _ *
* /_``>*< >*<''_\ *
* (\--_)++) (++(_--/) *
----------------------------------------------------------
There are no advanced students in Aikido - there are only
competent beginners. There are no advanced techniques -
only the correct application of basic principles.
lizzard woman
|
| "lizzard woman" <kimosa...@shaw.ca> wrote in message
| news:6Hj_d.711280$6l.482548@pd7tw2no...
| :
| : "_AnonCoward" <a...@xyz.com> wrote in message
| : news:5zj_d.39085$_i3.1...@twister.southeast.rr.com...
| :
| : (snip)
| :
| : | It is telling that the political website you created during the
| : | California gubernatorial recall election in 2003 did *not* use the
| : | title of Dr. You're just smart enough to realize that if you did
| : | somehow manage to get some notoriety from this effort, the title of
| : | Dr. would have blown up in your face. You evidently feel you don't
| : | run that risk on your websites.
| :
| : I could be wrongt but I think his run for governor predated his ebing
| : given the honorarty doctorate. If so, thaht would explain why the
| : page lacks the "Dr." I believe he certainly would have included it
| : had he been given it at the time since he really feels he has a
| : legitimate right to use the title.
|
|
| Ralf:
| Point taken - I belive you are correct regarding the timing. I have
| corrected my initial posting accordingly.
Admirable. It's obvious you have an allegiance to the truth and correcting
the record that is obviously lacking in many fundamentalist Christians.
David D. aa#2219 thanks to Gastrich
Grendel wrote:
> David D. aa#2219 thanks to Gastrich wrote:
> > JISTASKKIN wrote:
> >>"David D. aa#2219 thanks to Gastrich" <da...@hotmail.com> wrote in
> >>>
> >>>Mine is two but you ignored doors three and four.
> >>
> >>Two? Sorry, a little confusion here. Totally my fault.
> >>Clarification.: I did not ask how many sides of your
> >>mouth you enjoy speaking from, nor did I ask your
> >>last IQ score. I asked if you were a Christian. I see a
> >>simple question is beyond you. Yea or nay?
> >
> > nay. Have your forgotten that you yourself defined Door 2 as the
> > atheists in this very thread? I thought that was your nomenclature.
> > http://tinyurl.com/52wxk
You never addressed this point. I answered using your terminology
and you then slammed me for being cryptic and having a low IQ and
threw in an insult to boot. This is the behavior that you assert is
common in your critics. The fact is that I have only seen it from you.
Thats called hypocrisy.
David D. quoted from Beowulf:
> >>>>>Grendel this monster grim was called,
> >>>>>march-riever mighty, in moorland living,
> >>>>>in fen and fastness; fief of the giants
> >>>>>the hapless wight a while had kept
> >>>>>since the Creator his exile doomed.
> >>>>>On kin of Cain was the killing avenged
> >>>>>by sovran God for slaughtered Abel.
> >>>>>Ill fared his feud, and far was he driven,
> >>>>>for the slaughter's sake, from sight of men.
> >>>>>Of Cain awoke all that woful breed,
> >>>>>Etins and elves and evil-spirits,
> >>>>>as well as the giants that warred with God
> >>>>>weary while: but their wage was paid them!
Grendel replied:
> >>>>That's nice. Here is the real history of where
> >>>>I got the handle from. Grendel is a mail/news
> >>>>reader entirely written in Java. Its goal is to be
> >>>>a true cross-platform application with a
> >>>>feature set that satisfies the poweruser.
> >>>>http://www.mozilla.org/projects/grendel/
> >>>>
> >>>>Do you feel silly yet?
> >>>>How about now?
> >>>>Now?
<snip>
> >>>
> >>>Not as silly as a Christian who chooses a hellspawn name
> >>>as their online identity. Get a clue.
> >>
> >>You know Dave, I admittedly don't know all the details of
> >>your accusations made of Jason. So, not much point judging
> >>anybody so far. But, I do know how I came to choose my
> >>handle, and it had nothing to do with a demon character. I
> >>even made a reference to the real history of that handle when
> >>I first started using it here and in T.O. So, based on what I do
> >>know, and what you are claiming on the issue I am very
> >>familiar with, I can say you are being a dishonest liar.
> >
> > My comments with reagrd to your name have nothing to do with
> > lies or dishonesty.
>
> Oh contraire, you are making overtly slanderous comments by
> associating them the handle to something you now know to be
> false.
>
> > It is a fact that you have picked a name that
> > is associated with hellspawn.
>
> No, as already pointed out, that is wrong.
>
> > Why do you think the JAVA programmers picked that name?
> >
> >>You owe me an apology for your demonstrably false accusations.
> >
> > It's ironic that you picked that name but has nothing to do with my
> > honesty. I certainly do not owe you an apology.
>
> Yes you do.
>
> > My observations about you and your defence of Jason are all based
> > on your posts in this thread.
>
> My judgment of you is now based on your demonstrably false accusation
> with regards to my handle. Anything else you claim or say from this
> point on is to be assumed erroneous or slanderous.
<snip>
This is what i originally wrote before you informed us about the
JAVA connection with grendel
QUOTE
Since Grendel was a murderous troll I can assume you are the latter.
It seems as if you have chosen the name with thought. Afterall we
know
that Grendal was one of the creatures that survived the flood and his
seed gos back to Cain. He had no regard to law or custom. You chose
your handle name well.
END QUOTE
The only apology i have to make is for making the wrong assumption
about the origin. O do apologise for that but I have not lied. Also,
I
have not made accusations, just observations about your behavior in
this thread with regard to the name Grendel. You are the one
slamming Christians in this thread (Raymond G.), not me.
Why would I apologise for accusations i have never made? Your
problem is that you do not know the difference between comments
and accusations. I am not accusing you of picking the name because it
is associated with hellspawn, clearly you picked it since it was a cool
name from JAVA.
However, my comment stands, why would you want to use a
name that is associated with hellspawn?
Also, you did not answer my question above, so again, " Why do you
think
the JAVA programmers picked that name?". Do you still feel
comfortable
using that handle now you know where the name comes from?
You may think the association stops with JAVA but obviously it does
not.
Anyone who has read Beowulf will make the association with hellspawn
no matter how many times you try to correct people.
David D.
David D. aa#2219 thanks to Gastrich
> Grendel wrote:
> > David D. aa#2219 thanks to Gastrich wrote:
> > >
> > >>You owe me an apology for your demonstrably false accusations.
> > >
> > > It's ironic that you picked that name but has nothing to do with
my
> > > honesty. I certainly do not owe you an apology.
> >
> > Yes you do.
> >
> > > My observations about you and your defence of Jason are all based
> > > on your posts in this thread.
> >
> > My judgment of you is now based on your demonstrably false
> > accusation
>
> > with regards to my handle. Anything else you claim or say from this
> > point on is to be assumed erroneous or slanderous.
> <snip>
>
> This is what i originally wrote before you informed us about the
> JAVA connection with grendel
>
> QUOTE
> Since Grendel was a murderous troll I can assume you are the latter.
> It seems as if you have chosen the name with thought. Afterall we
> know that Grendal was one of the creatures that survived the flood
> and his seed gos back to Cain. He had no regard to law or custom.
> You chose your handle name well.
> END QUOTE
Just to clarify I when i made that staement I was trying to figure out
if
you were critical of a fellow Christian who calls out Jason with regard
to his dubiosu ministry. i wanted to know if you were either victim or
supporter of Gastrich. My words were clear:
"... are you tithing to his ministry? "
1) "If so then you are a victim and need to open your eyes."
2) "If not, then are you a similar predatory creature as Gastrich?"
So when i refer to latter in the above quote "Since Grendel was
a murderous troll I can assume you are the latter." It was a
reasonable assumption. Of course you have now corrected this
assumption but that still begs the question why you would
want to use such as name.
David D.
David D. aa#2219 thanks to Gastrich
> "David D. aa#2219 thanks to Gastrich"
<snip>
> >> Considering your generous and skillful use of your gift of
criticism
> >> Raymond, I can hardly understand why that is.
> >
> > Why are you critical of a fellow Christian who calls out a known
liar?
>
> I am critical of anyone who makes petty accusations.
Such as getting worked up about people misunderstanding
the origins of the handel Grendel? More hypocrisy.
> > Are you somehow benefiting from his scams?
>
> Scam!?! What exactly is he doing that could be labeled a scam?
Obviously you need to do some research. Do you also support
Swaggart, Bakker, Hinn and other evangelists? Where does their
wealth come from?
Answer: your fellow Christians. Faith is great but blind faith
is foolosh.
David D.
Grendel
> Grendel wrote:
>
>>David D. aa#2219 thanks to Gastrich wrote:
>>
>>>JISTASKKIN wrote:
>>>
>>>>"David D. aa#2219 thanks to Gastrich" <da...@hotmail.com> wrote in
>>>>
>>>>>I made that clear above. There are four doors.
>>>>>Mine is two but you ignored doors three and four.
>>>>
>>>>Two? Sorry, a little confusion here. Totally my fault.
>>>>Clarification.: I did not ask how many sides of your
>>>>mouth you enjoy speaking from, nor did I ask your
>>>>last IQ score. I asked if you were a Christian. I see a
>>>>simple question is beyond you. Yea or nay?
>>>
>>>nay. Have your forgotten that you yourself defined Door 2 as the
>>>atheists in this very thread? I thought that was your nomenclature.
>>>http://tinyurl.com/52wxk
>
>
>
> You never addressed this point. I answered using your terminology
> and you then slammed me for being cryptic and having a low IQ and
> threw in an insult to boot.
Becasue of your recent false allegations and insinuations, you are not
entitled to the courtesy of a reply.
This is the behavior that you assert is
> common in your critics. The fact is that I have only seen it from you.
>
> Thats called hypocrisy.
No, it's called jumping to conclusions.
Fine. There is still the outstanding issue of you jumping to slanderous
conclusions. I won't tell you what to do, it's obvious your mother had
no success, why should I bother.
>
> Why would I apologise for accusations i have never made?
The uncalled for insinuations.
Your
> problem is that you do not know the difference between comments
> and accusations. I am not accusing you of picking the name because it
> is associated with hellspawn, clearly you picked it since it was a cool
Congratulations, someone give the man a Kewpie doll.
>
> name from JAVA.
>
> However, my comment stands, why would you want to use a
> name that is associated with hellspawn?
You said it already....
BECAUSE " it was a cool name from JAVA" Sheeeesshh.
>
> Also, you did not answer my question above, so again, " Why do you
> think
> the JAVA programmers picked that name?". Do you still feel
> comfortable
> using that handle now you know where the name comes from?
I don't give a rats patootie where they got it from, their motives do
not apply to me.
>
> You may think the association stops with JAVA but obviously it does
> not.
> Anyone who has read Beowulf will make the association with hellspawn
> no matter how many times you try to correct people.
Gee, so nice of you to be concerned.
With friends like you......
>
> David D.
>
Grendel
None of your business where I tithe.
>
> 1) "If so then you are a victim and need to open your eyes."
A tithe is placed in good faith to an appropriate work, the
responsibility lies with the collector to use the funds wisely.
>
> 2) "If not, then are you a similar predatory creature as Gastrich?"
So says the dishonest scoffer.
>
> So when i refer to latter in the above quote "Since Grendel was
> a murderous troll I can assume you are the latter." It was a
> reasonable assumption. Of course you have now corrected this
> assumption but that still begs the question why you would
> want to use such as name.
For the hundreth time.....
BECAUSE " it was a cool name from JAVA" Sheeeesshh.
Grendel
So are we supposed to be correcting each other?
If that's true ,why don't you ever listen to me?
>
>
>>>I find it highly amusing that you call *me* a "Bible Scoffer" when you
>
> scoff
>
>>>at its instructions all the time. And in our communications, it is easy
>
> to
>
>>>see that I have quoted Scripture far more than you have -- only to have
>
> you
>
>>>clip it and dismiss it as "Bible scoffing".
>>
>>Raymond ,it is in fact you who denys essential straightforward teaching
>>of scripture because......get this.....the only reason you do it ( and
>>willingly so) is to defend your belief in evolution. Scripture does not
>>support you in any way shape or form. And it just burns you that you
>>can't weasel your way out of it by using scripture.
>
>
> Burns me? Well, you have no access to my thoughts, other than what I put
> down here. But you are wrong, Jisty old boy, as usual. You can deny the
> reality found in God's creation,
Really? What does teh reality of God's creation say about a man who
dies adn then rises 3 days later? Huh?
and you can deny certain straightforward
> readings of the Scripture in defense of your pet doctrines. That is up to
> you. But your way leads to fear and hatred -- and it shows.
My hatred is towards those who hack scripture to suit pet doctrines, and
my fear is that those pet doctrines will keep people from a saving
faith. Evolution is a very good example.
I hate what you stand for, not you.
>
> And I note that you have not answered what I wrote. I have quoted Scripture,
> without comment even, and had you snip it as Bible scoffing -- when I agreed
> perfectly with an "essential straightforward teaching" of it.
You pick and choose literal passages when it is convenient. ignoring
scripture at will to align with your belief in evolution.
How for instance do you wiggle out of this?
Exodus 20
8 "Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. 9 Six days you shall
labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the
LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your
son or daughter, nor your manservant or maidservant, nor your animals,
nor the alien within your gates. 11 For in six days the LORD made the
heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested
on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made
it holy.
That is directly from God Raymond. If that is so, evolution is a total
and complete lie.
>
> Yes, I know you hate me because of the evolution thingy.
No, no no. I have made this clear to you as well Raymond ,but you
continue to "forget"
I do not hate you, I hate your belief in evolution.
But your hatred is
> taking you to some really bizzare places. You might want to think about it.
> And I know you would rather I just go to Hell. You've told me to. You'd be
> gratified if I declared myself an atheist.
No Raymond, I said you can take your belief in evolution and go to hell
because that is where it belongs.
But you love to twist the words around don't you?
>
> And if my faith in Christ depended on people like you, I just might have. I
> have tested your ability to teach theology, and found it wanting. You have
> no answers and you will not answer any questions. You really provide no
> reason for a person to trust Christ at all.
I have no reason to offer anyone except what scripture says and teaches.
>
> But my faith in Christ does not depend on you.
Glad you figured that one out. Wow, all on your own too?
I have put my trust in Him to
> save me from my sins, both now in practical terms and forever. And Jist,
> since I have called upon the name of the Lord and asked Him to save me,
> guess what? You cannot undo what He has done. I not only trust Him, I intend
> to live by His precepts, God helping me.
You were very fortunate to be saved before you were duped into beleiving
in evolution. Once a person has accepted evolution, the chances of them
coming to know the Lord are slim to none.
>
>
>>>I hope you enjoy your functional atheism -- for that is what you have.
>>
>>Grow up Raymond. It's high time to leave your little sandbox of
>>name-calling don't ya think?
>
>
> Hmmm. Hello Pot. Hello Kettle!
>
> But as long as you profess faith without obedience and countenance sin in
> yourself and others, you effectively deny Him with your works. That was a
> position Paul decried in Titus. You do not want that to happen to you.
What!?! Why do you take that part of scripture literally!
>
> Have a good day Jist. Find joy.
My joy is truth, and if the Bible is true, evolution is false.
Read it and weep old boy.
Jason Gastrich
> "Jason Gastrich" <usene...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:fIp_d.51451$xX3....@twister.socal.rr.com...
>> Hi JISTASKKIN and welcome back to free.christians.
>
> Hi back atcha Jason.
>
>>
>> Did you have a chance to hear the devotional mp3?
>
> Not all of it yet, but what I did listen to sounded great.
Thanks.
>> By the way, I can't remember asking you about your faith. Would you
>> mind sharing?
>
> Oooo boy. I will summarize.
> Saved early at a bible camp.
> Raised Baptist.
Me too.
> Backslid for many years <sordid details>....began asking questions.
Me too. From ages to 16-20.
> Found my way back to severing the Lord.
> Spent a good portion of time in fellowship in a"brethren assembly"
> Slowly realized they had lots of knowledge,but short on love.
> Began church hopping....looking for the perfect church....made doubly
> difficult because of all the "knowledge" I acquired in the assembly.
> Big turning point was the creation/evolution issue which surfaced in
> my life at this time.
> Delved into it. Tried to reconcile it, but scripture is just too
> clear. Started involving myself in creation
> activities...conferences...events..etc..etc.
> Settled in a slightly conservative church at the moment. I am way
> more comfortable with conservative Christians than they are with me.
> I enjoy many activities that have them cringing, but my theology is
> sound, thanks to the assemblies, so they tolerate my liberal antics.
> Love Christian contemp music...just can't get enough of the latest
> from "Casting Crowns"
Praise the Lord. It's always good to see people return to the Lord.
I've heard a little of CC and they're good.
> Anyway...gotta go, how about you?
> P.S I noticed an extremely high level of demonic attack when I began
> the public creation activities. I can't even imagine what Satan
> plans for a public figure such as yourself. Did you find yourself
> attacked more the more public you took your faith?
Very true. When you begin stepping into the Devil's territory, we have to
be prepared for the worst. He and his armies do what they can to stop us,
but they are no match for the power of the Lord.
I went from being attacked while back-sliding to being attacked while
ministering, so it's hard to say. The spiritual warfare has always been.
God bless,
Jason
Mike Painter
> Mike Painter wrote:
>> But if you are saved you don't have to worry about actually getting
>> your hands dirty taking care of people.
>>
>> Any guilt can be assuaged with snacks, singing and bibles.
>
> Is that supposed to be a joke? Are you trying to mock Christians?
It's not a joke and I don't have to mock them.
It was part of Jason's little talk on helping the homeless.
Add "give them old clothes" and the implied "Don't get out of your car and
you have it.
The part you snipped asking Jason if he ever does anything is not a joke.
Most fundies talk about doing something for their god rather than for their
fellow man. That's not a joke but the people who believe it are.
Raymond Griffith
on 03/18/05 3:35 PM:
I have talked to you about your behavior. You merely wish to change my
beliefs. I don't care so much that you are a creationist -- I just wish you
would live the Scriptures you claim to believe.
And as for listening to you, why I have asked you dozens of questions you
might have at least tried to answer. And all I get from you is "Bible
scoffer". You take the easy road, the broad way, and the cheap shots.
You start doing some solid exposition yourself, and I'll be happy to listen.
I might not always agree, but I'll listen and be willing to respond nicely.
But as long as you are bent on saying you believe the Scriptures but aren't
willing to use them to regulate your speech and behavior, then what good are
your words?
Don't you think it passing strange that a "liberal" (as I suppose you
probably think of me) is more concerned about personal responsibility and
obedience to the Lord than you are?
>
>>
>>
>>>> I find it highly amusing that you call *me* a "Bible Scoffer" when you
>>
>> scoff
>>
>>>> at its instructions all the time. And in our communications, it is easy
>>
>> to
>>
>>>> see that I have quoted Scripture far more than you have -- only to have
>>
>> you
>>
>>>> clip it and dismiss it as "Bible scoffing".
>>>
>>> Raymond ,it is in fact you who denys essential straightforward teaching
>>> of scripture because......get this.....the only reason you do it ( and
>>> willingly so) is to defend your belief in evolution. Scripture does not
>>> support you in any way shape or form. And it just burns you that you
>>> can't weasel your way out of it by using scripture.
>>
>>
>> Burns me? Well, you have no access to my thoughts, other than what I put
>> down here. But you are wrong, Jisty old boy, as usual. You can deny the
>> reality found in God's creation,
>
>
> Really? What does teh reality of God's creation say about a man who
> dies adn then rises 3 days later? Huh?
>
Nothing. I forgive you your misspellings in your haste. There is no such
evidence in creation. That is faith.
But the creation itself testifies to its great age. And to try to make it
say otherwise by twisting the facts (as creationists invariably do) is to
call the Creator a liar.
The Bible was not written to teach people science. It was not written to
tell them how the world began. It was written, in their language and
culture, to help them get to know God.
>
> and you can deny certain straightforward
>> readings of the Scripture in defense of your pet doctrines. That is up to
>> you. But your way leads to fear and hatred -- and it shows.
>
> My hatred is towards those who hack scripture to suit pet doctrines, and
> my fear is that those pet doctrines will keep people from a saving
> faith. Evolution is a very good example.
> I hate what you stand for, not you.
Hah! Your rabidity toward me personally is and has been entirely evident.
Of course, from my perspective, I stand for obeying what one claims to
believe. I try very hard to do so. You stand and mock.
And I have not found evolution to keep anyone away from the Savior nearly so
much as rabid fundamentalism.
And of course, fundamentalist lies about science and scientists have
convinced me that creationism is a crock. Any so-called defense of Scripture
that has to rely on lies is worthless.
>
>>
>> And I note that you have not answered what I wrote. I have quoted Scripture,
>> without comment even, and had you snip it as Bible scoffing -- when I agreed
>> perfectly with an "essential straightforward teaching" of it.
>
> You pick and choose literal passages when it is convenient.
Like you? You read one part literally and the next part figuratively and
explain away what you don't like.
> ignoring
> scripture at will to align with your belief in evolution.
Like you? You ignore the scripture at will to align with your belief in
creationism.
I see the world as I see it -- and I still give God the glory. Why does that
put a burr in your saddle?
> How for instance do you wiggle out of this?
>
> Exodus 20
> 8 "Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. 9 Six days you shall
> labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the
> LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your
> son or daughter, nor your manservant or maidservant, nor your animals,
> nor the alien within your gates. 11 For in six days the LORD made the
> heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested
> on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made
> it holy.
How do you answer these questions?
Genesis 18:20 Then the LORD said, "The outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is
so great and their sin so grievous 21 that I will go down and see if what
they have done is as bad as the outcry that has reached me. If not, I will
know."
Why did the Lord tell Abraham that He had to go down to Sodom to see it
personally to know if Sodom was as wicked as He had heard? Why did God hide
His Omniscience and Omnipresence from Abraham? Why did the Lord allow
Abraham to plead for the city if He knew that He would destroy the city, and
that there was no hope for it at the time Abraham begged for mercy?
You have never answered these questions. You have refused to even touch
them. You have called me a scoffer and a mocker for even asking. But here
are some more.
Do you keep the Sabbath day? Why or why not? If you think that the Sabbath
for the Christian is Sunday, where do you find that in Scripture stated
directly? Do you observe Sunday by not working? Do you observe it because of
Creation, or because of the Lord's Resurrection?
>
> That is directly from God Raymond. If that is so, evolution is a total
> and complete lie.
Here is one directly from God
Job 38: 22 "Have you entered the storehouses of the snow
or seen the storehouses of the hail,
23 which I reserve for times of trouble,
for days of war and battle?
24 What is the way to the place where the lightning is dispersed,
or the place where the east winds are scattered over the earth?
Where are the storehouses of hail, Jist? Where is the place where lightning
is dispersed? God says there is such a place. Where is the place where God
sends the east winds to scatter over the earth?
If this is so then meteorology is a total and complete lie.
And
Job 38: 4 "Where were you when I laid the earth's foundation?
Tell me, if you understand.
5 Who marked off its dimensions? Surely you know!
Who stretched a measuring line across it?
6 On what were its footings set,
or who laid its cornerstone-
Where is the foundation of the earth? In particular, where is the
cornerstone?
If this is so then geology is a total and complete lie.
And
Revelation 6:12 I watched as he opened the sixth seal. There was a great
earthquake. The sun turned black like sackcloth made of goat hair, the whole
moon turned blood red, 13 and the stars in the sky fell to earth, as late
figs drop from a fig tree when shaken by a strong wind. 14 The sky receded
like a scroll, rolling up, and every mountain and island was removed from
its place.
Hmmm. Earthquakes are a physical phenomena. But the stars in the sky falling
to earth? If this is so, then astronomy is a total and complete lie.
Now, one can either remove one's view of the universe back a thousand years
or so, or one can understand that God spoke to the people in terms they
could understand to help them know Him. If God was willing to hide the truth
about Himself from Abraham to further their relationship and Abraham's
trust, then I see this as no different.
In any case, it does not prevent me from believing in the Christ dying for
my sins, rising again, and being willing to save me.
>
>>
>> Yes, I know you hate me because of the evolution thingy.
>
> No, no no. I have made this clear to you as well Raymond ,but you
> continue to "forget"
> I do not hate you, I hate your belief in evolution.
>
You so easily allow the two to be confused in your communications, my dear
Jist. No one could read your posts and know that you mean what you say when
you say you don't hate me. Actions speak louder than words, and many of your
words of hate personally directed at me have put the lie to your
protestations.
>
>
>
> But your hatred is
>> taking you to some really bizzare places. You might want to think about it.
>> And I know you would rather I just go to Hell. You've told me to. You'd be
>> gratified if I declared myself an atheist.
>
> No Raymond, I said you can take your belief in evolution and go to hell
> because that is where it belongs.
That is still telling me to go to hell.
> But you love to twist the words around don't you?
Nope. You were still telling me to go to hell. And your rabidity against me
has been entirely evident.
>
>
>
>>
>> And if my faith in Christ depended on people like you, I just might have. I
>> have tested your ability to teach theology, and found it wanting. You have
>> no answers and you will not answer any questions. You really provide no
>> reason for a person to trust Christ at all.
>
> I have no reason to offer anyone except what scripture says and teaches.
Except for attitude. And of course, the fact that you lie about others, what
they say, and their motivations. I would think that is not what the
scripture tells you to do.
And of course, the occasional foaming at the mouth. You really get fierce
when you get angry.
>
>>
>> But my faith in Christ does not depend on you.
>
> Glad you figured that one out. Wow, all on your own too?
Shut your chasm of sarcasm. Or are you really that ugly on the inside?
>
> I have put my trust in Him to
>> save me from my sins, both now in practical terms and forever. And Jist,
>> since I have called upon the name of the Lord and asked Him to save me,
>> guess what? You cannot undo what He has done. I not only trust Him, I intend
>> to live by His precepts, God helping me.
>
> You were very fortunate to be saved before you were duped into beleiving
> in evolution. Once a person has accepted evolution, the chances of them
> coming to know the Lord are slim to none.
And once a person realizes that fundamentalists are liars, they have perhaps
even less chance of coming to know the Lord.
I know scientists who have come to faith in Christ. But lying about the
world, about what they see, and about their motivations is not the way to
bring them to Christ.
>
>
>
>>
>>
>>>> I hope you enjoy your functional atheism -- for that is what you have.
>>>
>>> Grow up Raymond. It's high time to leave your little sandbox of
>>> name-calling don't ya think?
>>
>>
>> Hmmm. Hello Pot. Hello Kettle!
>>
>> But as long as you profess faith without obedience and countenance sin in
>> yourself and others, you effectively deny Him with your works. That was a
>> position Paul decried in Titus. You do not want that to happen to you.
>
> What!?! Why do you take that part of scripture literally!
>
Clear commands of behavior. And suppose for a moment that I didn't. It
wouldn't mean that you don't. And if *you* read it literally, you have an
obligation to obey it. God requires of you obedience according to your
knowledge, you know.
So quit spewing the leavings of a male cow and pay attention. You cannot
escape your own responsibility by pretending that I don't believe something.
Such an attitude demonstrates a corrupt heart.
>
>>
>> Have a good day Jist. Find joy.
>
> My joy is truth, and if the Bible is true, evolution is false.
> Read it and weep old boy.
Why should I weep? I read it every day. What is as important is that I try
to live by its precepts.
What's your excuse?
Now, will you be at peace with me, or not? Make your choice and make it
known. I definitely am not a fundamentalist, and I rejoice at the liberty I
have found in that release. I will not agree with you on many things. So
what? You will have to answer to the Lord as will I. I serve Him as best I
can, and with the understanding I have. And the Lord, the righteous Judge,
will sort things out in the end.
Regards,
Raymond E. Griffith
>
>
>
>
>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Raymond E. Griffith
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>>
>>>> Raymond E. Griffith
>>>>
>>
>>
>>
JISTASKKIN
> JISTASKKIN wrote:
>> "David D. aa#2219 thanks to Gastrich"
>> > Grendel wrote:
> <snip>
>> >> Considering your generous and skillful use of your gift of
> criticism
>> >> Raymond, I can hardly understand why that is.
>> >
>> > Why are you critical of a fellow Christian who calls out a known
> liar?
>>
>> I am critical of anyone who makes petty accusations.
>
> Such as getting worked up about people misunderstanding
> the origins of the handel Grendel? More hypocrisy.
Misunderstanding is one thing , but you were just too much of a dim bulb to
get it the first 10 times I tried to explain it to you.
Dim bulbs get on my nerves, sorry.
>
>> > Are you somehow benefiting from his scams?
>>
>> Scam!?! What exactly is he doing that could be labeled a scam?
>
>
> Obviously you need to do some research. Do you also support
> Swaggart, Bakker, Hinn and other evangelists? Where does their
> wealth come from?
Boy, it would be nice if you could just back some of these false
allegations, just once , please?
>
> Answer: your fellow Christians. Faith is great but blind faith
> is foolosh.
Oh ouch....kicked by a mule again.
>
> David D.
>
JISTASKKIN
"Raymond Griffith" <tiffirg...@ctc.net> wrote in message
news:BE60E57D.FAF2%tiffirg...@ctc.net...
> in article LYG_d.65969$gJ3.11260@clgrps13, Grendel at na...@trynot.com
> wrote
> on 03/18/05 3:35 PM:
>
>> ignoring
>> scripture at will to align with your belief in evolution.
>
> Like you? You ignore the scripture at will to align with your belief in
> creationism.
>
> I see the world as I see it -- and I still give God the glory. Why does
> that
> put a burr in your saddle?
>
>> How for instance do you wiggle out of this?
>>
>> Exodus 20
>> 8 "Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. 9 Six days you shall
>> labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the
>> LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your
>> son or daughter, nor your manservant or maidservant, nor your animals,
>> nor the alien within your gates. 11 For in six days the LORD made the
>> heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested
>> on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made
>> it holy.
>
> How do you answer these questions?
Like I said Raymond, you conveniently IGNORE scripture. And in this
instance, scripture directly from the hand of God.
But you know how you will answer don't you? You will now DENY
scripture.....hence ignoring + denying = scoffer.
<snip rest of scoffing>
>
Raymond Griffith
on 3/19/05 11:02 AM:
And Jist snips Scripture directly from the hand of God, calls it scoffing,
and refuses to explain why he doesn't believe in storehouses of hail.
Your snipping shows a basic dishonesty. I am truly sorry to see it.
Regards,
Raymond E. Griffith
JISTASKKIN
Raymond, please, I brought up some scripture and asked a question.
All you did was "poison the well" , do you know what that is and why it is
not a good debate tactic?
>
> Your snipping shows a basic dishonesty. I am truly sorry to see it.
?!?! Snipping for clarity and ease of following the points within a thread
occurs all the time in newsgroups.
Not sure why you need to start making false accusations. But let the record
show, it is you who stated with the childish responses. Typical.
>
> Regards,
>
> Raymond E. Griffith
>
David D. aa#2219 thanks to Gastrich
> "David D. aa#2219 thanks to Gastrich"
> > JISTASKKIN wrote:
> >> "David D. aa#2219 thanks to Gastrich"
> >> > Grendel wrote:
> > <snip>
> >> >> Considering your generous and skillful use
> >> >> of your gift of criticism Raymond, I can
> >> >> hardly understand why that is.
> >> >
> >> >Why are you critical of a fellow Christian who
> >> >calls out a known liar?
> >>
> >> I am critical of anyone who makes petty accusations.
> >
> > Such as getting worked up about people misunderstanding
>
> Misunderstanding is one thing , but you were just too much of
> a dim bulb to get it the first 10 times I tried to explain it to you.
> Dim bulbs get on my nerves, sorry.
I got it the first time! JAVA.
The dim bulb is yourself for refusing to acknowledge the origin
of this name. Why would a Christian want a handle that is the
name of hellspawn.
May be you could use Beelzebub too? Talk about dim.
> >> > Are you somehow benefiting from his scams?
> >>
> >> Scam!?! What exactly is he doing that could be labeled a scam?
> >
> > Obviously you need to do some research. Do you also support
> > Swaggart, Bakker, Hinn and other evangelists? Where does their
> > wealth come from?
>
> Boy, it would be nice if you could just back some of these false
> allegations, just once , please?
Snip the ass stuff
I don't trust anyone who is consitently dishonest. There are at
least four cases of serious dishonesty from Gastrich
documented on usenet.
Profits from JCSM got to pay his own salary and his wifes
salary.
Normally i would not have a problem with a minister paying
themselves salary from their ministry but when someone as
corrupt as Gastrich is in the game it is clear that he is a
Swaggert or Bakker.
Dp upi think ministries such as Swaggerts and Bakkers are
legitimate? Any one can preach the word of God. It's actions
that count. Chrisitans seem to be more enamoured by the
preaching and forget about the actions. Why is this?
David D.
JISTASKKIN
> JISTASKKIN wrote:
>> "David D. aa#2219 thanks to Gastrich"
>> > JISTASKKIN wrote:
>> >> "David D. aa#2219 thanks to Gastrich"
>> >> > Grendel wrote:
>> > <snip>
>> >> >> Considering your generous and skillful use
>> >> >> of your gift of criticism Raymond, I can
>> >> >> hardly understand why that is.
>> >> >
>> >> >Why are you critical of a fellow Christian who
>> >> >calls out a known liar?
>> >>
>> >> I am critical of anyone who makes petty accusations.
>> >
>> > Such as getting worked up about people misunderstanding
>> > the origins of the handle Grendel? More hypocrisy.
>>
>> Misunderstanding is one thing , but you were just too much of
>> a dim bulb to get it the first 10 times I tried to explain it to you.
>> Dim bulbs get on my nerves, sorry.
>
>
> I got it the first time! JAVA.
>
> The dim bulb is yourself for refusing to acknowledge the origin
> of this name. Why would a Christian want a handle that is the
> name of hellspawn.
Once a dimbulb always a dimbulb......you just never learn do you?
>
> May be you could use Beelzebub too? Talk about dim.
Ohhhh, maybe we can infer something twisted and evil if we shuffle the
letters in your name around..
Cut the idiocy already.
>
>> >> > Are you somehow benefiting from his scams?
>> >>
>> >> Scam!?! What exactly is he doing that could be labeled a scam?
>> >
>> > Obviously you need to do some research. Do you also support
>> > Swaggart, Bakker, Hinn and other evangelists? Where does their
>> > wealth come from?
>>
>> Boy, it would be nice if you could just back some of these false
>> allegations, just once , please?
>
> Snip the ass stuff
You snip the ASSume stuff.
>
>
> I don't trust anyone who is consitently dishonest. There are at
> least four cases of serious dishonesty from Gastrich
> documented on usenet.
>
> Profits from JCSM got to pay his own salary and his wifes
> salary.
>
> Normally i would not have a problem with a minister paying
> themselves salary from their ministry but when someone as
> corrupt as Gastrich is in the game it is clear that he is a
> Swaggert or Bakker.
You are ASSuming.
>
> Dp upi think ministries such as Swaggerts and Bakkers are
> legitimate? Any one can preach the word of God. It's actions
> that count. Chrisitans seem to be more enamoured by the
> preaching and forget about the actions. Why is this?
An atheist has zero right to comment on motives of Christians.
So, that's it, I will be happy to engage on other topics...not this one
until you provide facts.
>
> David D.
>