Topical Bible Message on HOMOSEXUALITY
Bible John
I do not come before you to condemn you, but to show you the light so
that you may be free. I am your servant, and would appreciate a moment
of your time reading my bible message in full. I can understand that
you may be hesitant to give me the time of day after learning that I am
a follower of Christ. I know that many false Christians preach a
message of hate towards you, and I in no way condone or sanction such
actions. I can relate to your experience with those that hate you as I
am also hated and disliked by many on the boards that I preach sadly. I
tell you the truth; from this day forward you will not hear one sentence
of hate speech geared at you during the days of my ministry in Usenet
newsgroups.
Topical Bible Message- HOMOSEXUALITY- Is it right or wrong? Is it a sin
or not?
Homosexuality is one of the many heated and controversial debates in our
society. The church seems to be divided on its views of homosexuality.
Many liberal denominations are very openly embracing homosexuality,
while many conservatives are not. There are of coarse different
extremes between the protestant liberal and conservative denominations
regarding Homosexuality. Some churches would ordain homosexuals into
the ministry, while on the opposite extreme there are churches that
would never allow a homosexual to enter the church.
Iąm sure you all have read stories of hate acts against homosexuals by
some so-called Christian pastors. Fred Phelps is a very well known
infamous Baptist pastor who preaches a message of hate geared at
homosexuals. Heąs no doubt the biggest anti-homosexual advocate in the
world.
Pastor Fred Phelps
http://www.godhatesfags.com/main/phelpsbio.html
Its tragic that Fred does not know the gospel according to Jesus,
because if he did he would have read the verse that says to love your
neighbor as yourself (Matt. 22:39 And the second is like it: Love your
neighbor as yourself.ą).
Many follow Fredąs damming ways, and sadly many will join him in hell.
But my prayer is that Fred and his followers repent of their wickedness.
Because of Fredąs example and poor representation of Christians I can
understand why many homosexuals are hostile towards us, and I really do
not blame them.
Like Fred Phelps I am also a conservative Baptist and staunch Calvinist.
I may not be 5 point, but I see homosexuality from the same lens as
Pastor Fred, but the difference between us is our approach to the issue.
Pastor Fred may read this bible message, and I want him to know that I
do not hate him, I only love him, but hate his hypocrisy and
misrepresentation of Christ, which I only will say after using the bible
as my authority. Those that misrepresent Christ in such a way are surely
the church of Satan, and will go into hell before the Mormons, JWąs,
Oneness Pentecostals, Word of Faith heretics, and other such cults
sadly. But Lord willing hopefully many will repent and turn towards the
light.
Lets look at what the bible teaches on homosexuality
From the Old Testament
Lev. 18:22 ¶ "Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is
detestable.
Lev. 20:13 ¶ "If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both
of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their
blood will be on their own heads.
So you see in the OT homosexuality was clearly a very serious sin that
had very serious and yet swift consequences. Back in these dayąs sin
like this was dealt with very quick and swift. One way that people
would be put to death was by stoning. No quick and easy death like what
may be experienced by those who are put to death in our society.
Some will read this and ask me why homosexuality is so severe, and why
is it more so of a sin than the many other sins listed in Moses law?
This is a fair question which I will answer by first stating that
homosexuality is a "transcendent" sin, and seems to be such a sin before
and after Moses law. We all know the story of Lot, and how the angels
had to blind the homosexuals who attempted to have sex with them. In
Sodom there were many homosexuals, so many that God had to destroy the
city. Homosexuality was serious before Moses law.
Second do know that homosexuality is mentioned many times in the NT
which would be after Moses law while many of the Moral and Civil laws in
Moses law are not. For example the many kosher laws were abolished by
Christ, as well as the 7th day Sabbath. The new Sabbath was changed
from Saturday to Sunday, in celebration of Jesusąs resurrection from the
dead.
NIV
1Cor. 6:9 ¶ Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom
of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters
nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders
1Cor. 6:10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor
swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
1Cor. 6:11 And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you
were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ
and by the Spirit of our God.
KJV
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God?
Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor
effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor
extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified,
but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of
our God.
Some KJV only advocates will respond and insist that the word
"homosexual" is never mentioned in the bible, and yes this is true, but
only from their point of view. The Greek word used for homosexuals is
"aresenokoites" which is properly translated into homosexuals. The KJV
gets it wrong in the passage above, while the NKJV corrects its mistake
below.
1 Corinthians 6:9-11 (New King James Version)
9Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of
God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor
adulterers, nor homosexuals,[a] nor sodomites, 10nor thieves, nor
covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the
kingdom of God. 11And such were some of you. But you were washed, but
you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord
Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.
NIV
1Tim. 1:9 We also know that law is made not for the righteous but for
lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and
irreligious; for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers,
1Tim. 1:10 for adulterers and perverts, for slave traders and liars and
perjurers ‹ and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine
For some reason the NIV does not use the word "homosexual" in the above
verses. However the NASB does use the "homosexual" word in place of the
NIVąs "perverts." This word is not a common word in the NIV
translation, as its used only once.
Rom. 1:26 ¶ Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even
their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones.
Rom. 1:27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with
women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed
indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty
for their perversion.
The above scriptures seem to very clearly indicate 3 things.
a) Homosexuality is a sin that will be punished very severely
b) Practicing Homosexuals will not enter the kingdom of heaven
c) There was a time when God got so fed up with the sin of sinners, so
he just allowed the homosexuals and others to continue to live in their
sin, and without any of his providence
Knowing the above to be true, and if you are a conservative evangelical
believing in the "verbal plenary view of interpretation" you will see 2
Tim 3:16 as literal, and will interpret the above verses pertaining to
homosexuality to indicate that this is indeed a very serious sin. But
then how to approach homosexuals is another manor. We cant be like Fred
Phelps, but we can be like Jesus who comes to set the captives free.
Homosexuals are people too and needed to be treated as such. Fred
Phelpsąs divisive unbiblical attitude has led many homosexuals to
believe that all Christians are as hateful towards homosexuals as he is,
which is very far from the truth. Many Christians do not preach a
message of hate towards homosexuals.
I remember once working with a homosexual at a computer sales/support
job I had for summer 2002. Anthony had really experienced nothing but
hatred from so many Christians and Catholics, that he was very skeptical
of me after he learned that I was a saved and sanctified follower of
Jesus. When the due time came for me to leave this job and return back
to school, Anthony told me that I was unlike any Christian he had ever
met. I was not bent on attacking and condemning him, but was very
interested in loving him in the same way that Jesus loves the world.
John 3:17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the
world, but to save the world through him.
So I believe that the only way to approach homosexuals is to love them
as I did with Anthony in 2002. Jesus loved me in such a way (only far
more powerful) and we need to love others likewise.
God bless!
John Wolf
BA Church Education Ministries, Simpson University 2005
AS Business Computer technology specialist, Canada College 2000
--
CERM- Church Education Resource Ministries
http://johnw.freeshell.org/bible/
2Tim. 4:2 Preach the Word; be prepared in
season and out of season; correct, rebuke
and encourage ‹ with great patience and careful instruction.
AIM: Crucifyself03
--
CERM- Church Education Resource Ministries
http://johnw.freeshell.org/bible/
2Tim. 4:2 Preach the Word; be prepared in
season and out of season; correct, rebuke
and encourage ‹ with great patience and careful instruction.
AIM: Crucifyself03
--
CERM- Church Education Resource Ministries
http://johnw.freeshell.org/bible/
2Tim. 4:2 Preach the Word; be prepared in
season and out of season; correct, rebuke
and encourage ‹ with great patience and careful instruction.
AIM: Crucifyself03
Red Rum
with it and stop wasting our time with your guilt ridden sexual fantasies
God undoubtedly cares even less about your homosexual tendencies than we do
Just get on with it and lets talk about something that matters
Bible John
<threetimewinner-...@ppp2073.dyn.pacific.net.au>,
threeti...@overthesticks.com (Red Rum) wrote:
> For heaven sake if you are so desperate to be poked up the bum then get on
> with it and stop wasting our time with your guilt ridden sexual fantasies
>
> God undoubtedly cares even less about your homosexual tendencies than we do
>
Food goodness sake these are very insulting allegations. Did you even
read my bible study before you jumped to these conclusions?
> Just get on with it and lets talk about something that matters
This does matter. I care about peoples soul. Does that not matter?
John
Red Rum
John <john.d...@x-files.gov> wrote:
> In article
> <threetimewinner-...@ppp2073.dyn.pacific.net.au>,
> threeti...@overthesticks.com (Red Rum) wrote:
>
> > For heaven sake if you are so desperate to be poked up the bum then get on
> > with it and stop wasting our time with your guilt ridden sexual fantasies
> >
> > God undoubtedly cares even less about your homosexual tendencies than we do
> >
>
> Food goodness sake these are very insulting allegations. Did you even
> read my bible study before you jumped to these conclusions?
>
>
> > Just get on with it and lets talk about something that matters
>
> This does matter. I care about peoples soul. Does that not matter?
>
>
> John
I don't believe you - what you display here is the prejudiced and guilt
ridden person's arrogant belief in his own rightness which you seek to
enhance by adding the word "Bible" to your signature. You show signs of a
person fighting their desires and trying to conceal the battle with words
condemning those desires. It is as if you thought chocolate was immoral
but at the same time were desperately craving for it and interested in
every aspect of it. Faced with such a person I am sure you too would say
"for Christ's sake have some and get over it!" We don't want to listen to
your internal turmoil
Frankly John I don't think God gives much of a stuff about where you stick
your penis so long as there is consent between all parties involved. You
can go out and bugger the goat for all most of us care
Get over your genitals and think above your belt
I don't care what you think about the sexual behaviour of people who may
or may not share your fantasies and preferences
But I do care about your arrogant condemnation of others
So stick your interpretation of the Bible where it best fits and leave
people's privacy alone.
Red Rum
Red Rum
In article <john.doggett-6298...@news.supernews.com>, Bible
John <john.d...@x-files.gov> wrote:
> * Please join me in daily prayer for Fred Phelps. A seriously mislead
> activist so-called christian who likes to tell the homosexual community
> that God hates them. Fred also thanked God "publicly" for 911
> (http://www.godhatesamerica.com/html/91101.html), and the December
> tragedy that killed so many across the world.
>
> http://www.godhatesfags.com/main/phelpsbio.html
>
> Dear Lord,
>
> Bless Fred Phelps Save his soul! Help Fred Phelps to repent to
> You and call
> You Lord in his action, and not thus his lips. Let him trust Jesus.
>
> Help Fred Phelps to read His Bible and understand it in CONTEXT, and
> help him to learn that there are other passages to study in the bible
> besides homosexuality.
>
>
> In Jesus' name, Amen.
>
> God bless you Fred Phelps!
>
> Sincerely,
> John Wolf
>
Bible Bob
<john.d...@x-files.gov> wrote:
>In article
><threetimewinner-...@ppp2073.dyn.pacific.net.au>,
> threeti...@overthesticks.com (Red Rum) wrote:
>
>> For heaven sake if you are so desperate to be poked up the bum then get on
>> with it and stop wasting our time with your guilt ridden sexual fantasies
>>
>> God undoubtedly cares even less about your homosexual tendencies than we do
>>
>
>Food goodness sake these are very insulting allegations. Did you even
>read my bible study before you jumped to these conclusions?
>
>
>> Just get on with it and lets talk about something that matters
>
>This does matter. I care about peoples soul. Does that not matter?
>
>
>John
John,
You care about peoples "soul."
Do you know what that means Biblically? The soul is nothing more than
the natural life in a person. When the person dies the soul dies and
that is the end of the person until the resurrection. But, if the
soul (life) was saved, then when Christ returns for his CHurch that
person will be raised from the dead.
Ecclesiastes 12:7 KJV
Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit
shall return unto God who gave it.
It is good to care for the lives of people. It is good to want no
harm to come to people due to inappropriate behavior. It also good to
clean up your own life before you try to clean up the lives of others.
No one will listen to someone they esteem to be a hypocrite,
Non-commercial website where everything is free.
http://www.biblebob.net
BB
Bible John
Bible Bob <biblebo...@biblebob.net> wrote:
> John,
>
> You care about peoples "soul."
>
> Do you know what that means Biblically? The soul is nothing more than
> the natural life in a person. When the person dies the soul dies and
> that is the end of the person until the resurrection. But, if the
> soul (life) was saved, then when Christ returns for his CHurch that
> person will be raised from the dead.
What do you say about Steven who saw Jesus right before he died and then
joined him? Also what do you make of Moses and Elijah who were not
asleep but well awake after their death?
What do you say about the thied on the cross whom Jesus said that he
would join him in paradise that very day? He did not go to sleep, he
went to be with the lord.
John
>
> Ecclesiastes 12:7 KJV
> Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit
> shall return unto God who gave it.
>
> It is good to care for the lives of people. It is good to want no
> harm to come to people due to inappropriate behavior. It also good to
> clean up your own life before you try to clean up the lives of others.
> No one will listen to someone they esteem to be a hypocrite,
--
CERM- Church Education Resource Ministries
http://johnw.freeshell.org/bible/
2Tim. 4:2 Preach the Word; be prepared in
season and out of season; correct, rebuke
and encourage -- with great patience and careful instruction.
AIM: Crucifyself03
Bible Bob
<john.d...@x-files.gov> wrote:
>In article <5u0ud154f128slflb...@4ax.com>,
> Bible Bob <biblebo...@biblebob.net> wrote:
>
>> John,
>>
>> You care about peoples "soul."
>>
>> Do you know what that means Biblically? The soul is nothing more than
>> the natural life in a person. When the person dies the soul dies and
>> that is the end of the person until the resurrection. But, if the
>> soul (life) was saved, then when Christ returns for his CHurch that
>> person will be raised from the dead.
>
>What do you say about Steven who saw Jesus right before he died and then
>joined him? Also what do you make of Moses and Elijah who were not
>asleep but well awake after their death?
>
>What do you say about the thied on the cross whom Jesus said that he
>would join him in paradise that very day? He did not go to sleep, he
>went to be with the lord.
>
>
>John
>
Where do you come up with all of your silliness? As if I didn't know.
I say Stephen died and is dead and will be raised from the dead when
Christ returns:
Acts 7:59 KJV
And they stoned Stephen, calling upon [God], and saying, Lord Jesus,
receive my spirit.
Acts 7:60 KJV
And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this
sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.
That's what the Bible says.
What Stephen said was:
Acts 7:55 KJV
But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into
heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand
of God,
Acts 7:56 KJV
And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man
standing on the right hand of God.
It doesn't say he went to heaven, it says he looked up steafastly into
heaven and saw, etc. He saw a vision, John. He didn't go there.
Why don't you learn how to quote and describe verses correctly?
Luke 23:43 KJV
And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be
with me in paradise.
It says "paradise" not "heaven". The man was a Jew. It was before
Pentecost. Being saved was not available until after the
resurrection. The man would be resurrected in the future at the
resurrection spoken of in Revelation.
The future dwelling place is paradise, New Jerusalem, on the earth not
in heaven. No man other than Jesus Christ has ever gone to heaven.
And don't try Enoch because the word is transported - moved from one
point on earth to another.
>>
>> Ecclesiastes 12:7 KJV
>> Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit
>> shall return unto God who gave it.
>>
>> It is good to care for the lives of people. It is good to want no
>> harm to come to people due to inappropriate behavior. It also good to
>> clean up your own life before you try to clean up the lives of others.
>> No one will listen to someone they esteem to be a hypocrite,
Andrew
>
> The future dwelling place is paradise, New Jerusalem, on the earth not
> in heaven.
It is a heavenly city:
"But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore
God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for
them a city." Heb 11:16
"You have come to Mount Zion, even to the city of the living God, the
heavenly Jerusalem." Heb 12:22
That will eventually come down to this earth:
"And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out
of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband." Rev 21:2
> No man other than Jesus Christ has ever gone to heaven.
"And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven,
saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory,and honour, and power, unto the
Lord our God." Rev 19:1
> And don't try Enoch because the word is transported - moved from one
> point on earth to another.
"And Enoch walked with God: and..God took him." Gen 5:24
"Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found,
because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this
testimony, that he pleased God." Heb 11:5
Andrew
Bible Bob
wrote:
Just in case, John doesn't understand:
As I said, transported horizontally from point a to point b on earth.
Genesis 5:24 KJV
And Enoch walked with God: and he [was] not; for God took him.
H3947
???
la?qach
law-kakh'
A primitive root; to take (in the widest variety of applications): -
accept, bring, buy, carry away, drawn, fetch, get, infold, X many,
mingle, place, receive (-ing), reserve, seize, send for, take (away,
-ing, up), use, win.
>
translated:
metatithe?mi
met-at-ith'-ay-mee
From G3326 and G5087; to transfer, that is, (literally) transport, (by
implication) exchange, (reflexively) change sides, or (figuratively)
pervert: - carry over, change, remove, translate, turn.
from meta
meta
met-ah'
A primary preposition (often used adverbially); properly denoting
accompaniment; “amid” (local or causal); modified variously according
to the case (genitive case association, or accusative case succession)
with which it is joined; occupying an intermediate position between
G575 or G1537 and G1519 or G4314; less intimate than G1722, and less
close than G4862): - after (-ward),X that he again, against, among, X
and, + follow, hence, hereafter, in, of, (up-) on, + our, X and
setting, since, (un-) to, + together, when, with (+ -out). Often used
in composition, in substantially the same relations of participation
or proximity, and transfer or sequence.
and from tithemi
tithemi
tith'-ay-mee
A prolonged form of a primary word ???? theo? (which is used only as
an alternate in certain tenses); to place (in the widest application,
literally and figuratively; properly in a passive or horizontal
posture, and thus different from G2476, which properly denotes an
upright and active position, while G2749 is properly reflexive and
utterly prostrate): - + advise, appoint, bow, commit, conceive, give,
X kneel down, lay (aside, down, up), make, ordain, purpose, put, set
(forth), settle, sink down.
Mark K. Bilbo
John burst into the room and exclaimed:
> Topical Bible Message- HOMOSEXUALITY- Is it right or wrong? Is it a sin
> or not?
Who cares what the babble says?
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
Alt-atheism website at: http://www.alt-atheism.org
--------------------------------------------------
"Come to think of it, there are already a million
monkeys on a million typewriters, and the Usenet
is NOTHING like Shakespeare!" -- Blair Houghton
Mark K. Bilbo
John burst into the room and exclaimed:
> In article
> <threetimewinner-...@ppp2073.dyn.pacific.net.au>,
> threeti...@overthesticks.com (Red Rum) wrote:
>
>> For heaven sake if you are so desperate to be poked up the bum then get
>> on with it and stop wasting our time with your guilt ridden sexual
>> fantasies
>>
>> God undoubtedly cares even less about your homosexual tendencies than we
>> do
>>
>>
> Food goodness sake these are very insulting allegations. Did you even
> read my bible study before you jumped to these conclusions?
>
>
>> Just get on with it and lets talk about something that matters
>
> This does matter. I care about peoples soul. Does that not matter?
You don't give a flying fuck about anybody but yourself you little twit.
Red Rum
John <john.d...@x-files.gov> wrote:
> In article <5u0ud154f128slflb...@4ax.com>,
> Bible Bob <biblebo...@biblebob.net> wrote:
>
> > John,
> >
> > You care about peoples "soul."
> >
> > Do you know what that means Biblically? The soul is nothing more than
> > the natural life in a person. When the person dies the soul dies and
> > that is the end of the person until the resurrection. But, if the
> > soul (life) was saved, then when Christ returns for his CHurch that
> > person will be raised from the dead.
>
> What do you say about Steven who saw Jesus right before he died and then
> joined him? Also what do you make of Moses and Elijah who were not
> asleep but well awake after their death?
>
> What do you say about the thied on the cross whom Jesus said that he
> would join him in paradise that very day? He did not go to sleep, he
> went to be with the lord.
>
>
> John
>
I'd say you can't tell myth from reality
Red Rum
<alt-a...@org.webmaster> wrote:
> You don't give a flying fuck about anybody but yourself you little twit.
>
succinctly put