Accessible bootstrapping is now available using semantic HTML markup.

[Bryan Garaventa]

Hello, please forgive the cross-posting, this actually is quite important. I'll be brief.

 

If you don't know what bootstrapping is, I'm referring to the use of semantic HTML markup to configure advanced controls, which are then magically converted into dynamic interactive components when the content finishes loading. 

 

Twitter Bootstrap is the most well-known CMS that does this.

 

The problem with the vast majority of interactive components used by Twitter Bootstrap and others, is that they are not specifically designed to be accessible from the start. The result is a negative impact across millions of pages across the web, as inaccessible components are repeatedly shared and incorporated into new projects daily.
E.G http://ux.joomla.org/forum/Accessibility/435-Bootstrap-and-Accessibility
or you can simply google "bootstrap accessibility" to find more examples. Though some work is being done in this regard, the majority of complex components are not accessible by WCAG2.0 or Section-508 standards as a result of this.

 

So, I built AccDC Bootstrap to solve this problem, which is now available at
http://whatsock.com/bootstrap

 

AccDC Bootstrap is designed to automatically enforce accessibility, while making it possible to populate individual components with any type of content, in any language, using any visual styling.

 

Recently, Google's Vice President Vinton G. Cerf asked "Why Is Accessibility So Hard?"

 

Personally, I don't believe it has to be.

 

Sincerely,
Bryan Garaventa

[Octavian Rasnita]

Hi Brian,

 

Congratulations again. But wouldn't be a good idea to collaborate with those that made Twitter Bootstrap and incorporate your work in it? Not only that it will be much more visible, but I think the biggest advantage would be that everyone would use Twitter Bootstrap will just use the right thing.

 

With jQuery UI is the same, but in case of jQuery I think it is harder to do that, since there are many third parties that create code for it...

 

--Octavian

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[Bryan Garaventa]

Thanks, I have thought of that actually, and much of the problem isn't within Twitter Bootstrap, but the jQuery plugins that are being pulled in that provide extended functionality. It would take me years to go through all of those plugins, if the original developers would even let me do it, or agree to the changes, or maintain those changes as updates occurred in the future by others who aren't as familiar with ATs, and so on. This is a lot of 'ors', and would take far more time than I have to do it at the moment. So instead, I just built AccDC Bootstrap in seven days, and I can guarantee that it will always be accessible, and it can be incorporated into any framework such as HTML5 Boilerplate, Twitter Bootstrap, or any other just as easily.

[Octavian Rasnita]

Yep, that's right.

 

As I've seen, the developers that create Javascript widgets are usually interested to make their work accessible if it is not too hard, (of course, the good developers), and I think they might be interested in your solution.

 

Because it would be too hard to contact them all, or better said really impossible, I think that it could be helpful if you will contact the jQuery UI main developer team and try to arrange to post information about your accessibility solution on their web site, to be easier accessible by the current or future jQuery developers.

 

I can't believe they would say that they are not interested in it...

[Bryan Garaventa]

It's a good idea, I'm certainly open to it. It can also be imported into GWT via JSNI rather easily as well. It's always nice when things are simple.

[Scott González]

On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 2:18 AM, Octavian Rasnita <oras...@gmail.com> wrote:

Because it would be too hard to contact them all, or better said really impossible, I think that it could be helpful if you will contact the jQuery UI main developer team and try to arrange to post information about your accessibility solution on their web site, to be easier accessible by the current or future jQuery developers.

 

I can't believe they would say that they are not interested in it...

I'm a bit confused about what you're suggesting here. Is your suggestion that jQuery UI promote AccDC? If so, I'm not sure why we (jQuery UI) would want to promote a different library that serves the same purpose.

[Octavian Rasnita]

From: Scott González

Because these 2 libraries are not serving the same purpose.

I think the main scope of AccDC is not to compete with jQuery UI, but to promote accessibility, while many jQuery UI widgets have accessibility problems.

 

So the jQuery UI developers might learn how to improve their widgets and add accessibility features in them.

 

This is why the core team of jQuery UI should have all the interest to promote it.

 

Octavian

 

 

 

[Scott González]

On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 8:39 AM, Octavian Rasnita <oras...@gmail.com> wrote:

Because these 2 libraries are not serving the same purpose.

I think the main scope of AccDC is not to compete with jQuery UI, but to promote accessibility, while many jQuery UI widgets have accessibility problems.

This really doesn't make sense. The fact that jQuery UI currently has accessibility issues does not mean that we aim to be an inaccessible library. AccDC, by its existence, aims to compete with all existing JavaScript UI libraries.

So the jQuery UI developers might learn how to improve their widgets and add accessibility features in them.

Promoting AccDC is no way helps us learn how to improve our widgets. Comparing AccDC's accessibility to jQuery UI's does, and that's completely orthogonal to promotion. This is like saying that because Dojo had an ARIA implementation before jQuery UI, that jQuery UI should promote Dojo/Dijit because it will improve jQuery UI in some way.

If Bryan wants to help improve accessibility in jQuery UI, we'd happily accept his help. But from his posts on this list, it seems like working with existing libraries is not something he's really interested. He's even specifically complained about maintenance concerns when building accessible widgets on top of jQuery.

I read all of Bryan's posts, and I look at the AccDC widgets when he posts about them. I even respond to his posts to find out why he makes certain decisions. As far as I can tell, this is much more useful to jQuery UI than promoting AccDC on our web site.

To be honest, the thing that I care most about is that all widgets behave the same way. It bothers me to no end that major libraries like jQuery UI, Dijit, YUI, etc. cannot agree on how to make widgets accessible. While having all major libraries care about accessibility is great, the biggest win would be having tabs work the same way across all sites, and that's just not going to happen until we can all agree on a specific implementation. So far, my experience has been that this kind of cross-project collaboration is extremely difficult and takes years to accomplish.

Bryan: I, and the rest of the jQuery UI team, welcome you to help test and improve accessibility of jQuery UI widgets if you're interested.

[David Ward]

Interesting, I'd love to see a frame work like JQueery a go to solution for ARIA and Accessibility .... Hope he takes you up on your suggestion.

[David Ward]

Interesting... Until now I've home spun all my stuff but haven't had to do anything terribly fancy other than some AJAX pulls from PHP DB calls. But I might have to look into it. But I'd love to be able to support a mainstream framework if such was a bullet proof AT solution.

[Bryan Garaventa]

Thanks, you are correct, AccDC and jQuery are not the same, though both are compatible.

 

It is not true that my intent is to compete with all other frameworks however. AccDC is designed as a closed system simply to accessibly process recursive data, and the widgets are tied into this in order to provide a consistent method for doing this that has no risk of being inadvertently broken by third party updating.

 

People are welcome to use AccDC for whatever they wish, in combination with whatever they wish, or not at all.

 

The widgets themselves consist of thoroughly tested component models that have proven to be accessible across various browsers and platforms and across all mainstream ATs. I welcome people to take these widgets apart to see how they work, and duplicate them within other frameworks as well.

 

I am drawing upon over 8 years of experience and the testing of over 1000 client web applications to establish the most reliable working models possible, and there is no reason why people can't perform the same tests on what I've built as well to prove or disprove what I've been saying. I hope that people will, because only by comparative analysis can true standards of development be established.

 

The best solution regarding jQuery UI, is to implement related widgets in the most accessible manner possible based on such comparative analysis, and if I can help with this, I would be happy to.

 

I haven't suggested that any framework promote AccDC for any reason, nor do I intend to. If people wish to use multiple frameworks to achieve accessible results, that is up to the developers. I do hope that people perform comparative tests to learn from these results and implement accessible widgets according to these findings, which will be of benefit to all of us.

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Scott González

To: free...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Monday, November 26, 2012 7:24 AM

Subject: Re: [free-aria] Accessible bootstrapping is now available using semantic HTML markup.

--

[Octavian Rasnita]

On Monday, November 26, 2012 10:24:09 AM UTC-5, Scott González wrote:

On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 8:39 AM, Octavian Rasnita <oras...@gmail.com> wrote:

Because these 2 libraries are not serving the same purpose.

I think the main scope of AccDC is not to compete with jQuery UI, but to promote accessibility, while many jQuery UI widgets have accessibility problems.

This really doesn't make sense. The fact that jQuery UI currently has accessibility issues does not mean that we aim to be an inaccessible library. AccDC, by its existence, aims to compete with all existing JavaScript UI libraries.

 

 

 

Brian says something else:

 

"It is not true that my intent is to compete with all other frameworks"

 

 

 

So the jQuery UI developers might learn how to improve their widgets and add accessibility features in them.

Promoting AccDC is no way helps us learn how to improve our widgets. Comparing AccDC's accessibility to jQuery UI's does, and that's completely orthogonal to promotion. This is like saying that because Dojo had an ARIA implementation before jQuery UI, that jQuery UI should promote Dojo/Dijit because it will improve jQuery UI in some way.

 

I think I was misunderstood. By promotion I didn't mean that the jQuery UI team should advertise AccDC. I wanted to say that jQuery UI should better inform the third party developers that create widgets about accessibility and point to AccDC as a good and working example.

 

 

If Bryan wants to help improve accessibility in jQuery UI, we'd happily accept his help. But from his posts on this list, it seems like working with existing libraries is not something he's really interested. He's even specifically complained about maintenance concerns when building accessible widgets on top of jQuery.

 

I think there was a lack of communication, because Brian Said:

 

"The best solution regarding jQuery UI, is to implement related widgets in the most accessible manner possible based on such comparative analysis, and if I can help with this, I would be happy to."

 

I read all of Bryan's posts, and I look at the AccDC widgets when he posts about them. I even respond to his posts to find out why he makes certain decisions. As far as I can tell, this is much more useful to jQuery UI than promoting AccDC on our web site.

 

Yes, this is more useful indeed, but is it useful for other jQuery UI developers that don't read Brian's posts?

 

To be honest, the thing that I care most about is that all widgets behave the same way. It bothers me to no end that major libraries like jQuery UI, Dijit, YUI, etc. cannot agree on how to make widgets accessible. While having all major libraries care about accessibility is great, the biggest win would be having tabs work the same way across all sites, and that's just not going to happen until we can all agree on a specific implementation. So far, my experience has been that this kind of cross-project collaboration is extremely difficult and takes years to accomplish.

 

That's true, and for doing that, the collaboration would be the most important and not the competition.

 

 

Bryan: I, and the rest of the jQuery UI team, welcome you to help test and improve accessibility of jQuery UI widgets if you're interested.

 

 

I think this is a great starting point, from accessibility point of view.

 

Octavian

 

[Scott González]

On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 1:34 AM, Octavian Rasnita <oras...@gmail.com> wrote: 

Brian says something else:

 

"It is not true that my intent is to compete with all other frameworks"

Yes, it is clearly not his intent to compete with all other frameworks. But the nature of building a framework for mass use is that you're competing with all existing frameworks. 

I think I was misunderstood. By promotion I didn't mean that the jQuery UI team should advertise AccDC. I wanted to say that jQuery UI should better inform the third party developers that create widgets about accessibility and point to AccDC as a good and working example.

I would much rather point third party developers to a resource that explains accessibility, the associated challenges, and proposed solutions. Such a resource should itself link to existing accessible widgets. This already exists and is much better than pointing people directly at AccDC.

I read all of Bryan's posts, and I look at the AccDC widgets when he posts about them. I even respond to his posts to find out why he makes certain decisions. As far as I can tell, this is much more useful to jQuery UI than promoting AccDC on our web site.

 

Yes, this is more useful indeed, but is it useful for other jQuery UI developers that don't read Brian's posts?

Yes, the entire team has public discussions in IRC all day every day. Feel free to join us in #jqueryui-dev on freenode. Some team members are also passive members of this list, so they read the discussions but don't participate.

[Bryan Garaventa]

I'm sorry you feel that way. My goal has always been to promote accessibility, not to be competetive.

 

I'd be happy to explain the concepts behind anything I've built, if there is anything of interest. The procedures are actually very simple, and would be easy to implement in jQuery. Personally, I learn best by observing working models, which is why I've built all that I have, to provide working models for people to test themselves in the same manner that I have, to see what works and what doesn't.

 

I'll show you an example of this, which is a pretty neat trick.

 

The below script makes Google Maps accessible, not just for keyboard users, but for voice navigation software, and for screen reader users. Regardless that screen reader users can't use the map, it's always nice to know what has focus at any given time.

 

This is a trick, because all that Google has to do to make Google Maps keyboard accessible, for all people around the world, right now, is to add three attributes and one keyDown handler to the button tags that control the map. By examining the code below, this is perfectly obvious, and it provides a working model to test.

 

My point is, that accessibility doesn't have to be a mystery, and it's usually far easier to accomplish than most people realize. This is what I keep trying to point out, though it seems incredibly difficult to convey at times.

 

My problem is that I don't know what people are interested in, so I typically just build stuff because I feel like doing it. If there is something that I can help with regarding jQuery, just let me know, I'm happy to help.

 

window.makeGMapsAccessible = function(mapNode){
 setTimeout(function(){
  $(mapNode).find(
   'div[title="Show street map"], div[title="Show street map with terrain"], div[title="Show satellite imagery"], div[title="Zoom in to show 45 degree view"], div[title="Show imagery with street names"], div[title="Pan up"], div[title="Pan down"], div[title="Pan left"], div[title="Pan right"], div[title="Return to the last result"], div[title="Zoom in"], div[title="Zoom out"], img[title="Rotate map 90 degrees"]').each(
   function(i, o){
   $(o).attr(
       {
       role: 'button',
       tabindex: '0',
       'aria-label': o.title
       }).bind('keydown', function(ev){
    if (ev.which == 13){
     ev.preventDefault();
     $(o).trigger('click');
    }
   });
  });
 }, 3000);
};

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Scott González

To: free...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2012 9:40 AM

Subject: Re: [free-aria] Accessible bootstrapping is now available using semantic HTML markup.

--

[Octavian Rasnita]

(It is strange that I don't receive any message from Scott, but only when others reply... And the message is not in Gmail Spam folder either.)

 

From: Scott González

is clearly not his intent to compete with all other frameworks. But the nature of building a framework for mass use is that you're competing with all existing frameworks. 

 

Hmm, this doesn't sound good, because it is just as you are saying that Brian is not competing with you, but you are competing with Brian, and you don't want to admit that from the accessibility point of view his code is better than the one made by jQuery UI developers.

 

 

 

I would much rather point third party developers to a resource that explains accessibility, the associated challenges, and proposed solutions. Such a resource should itself link to existing accessible widgets. This already exists and is much better than pointing people directly at AccDC.

 

OK, great, but why does jQuery UI have so many accessibility problems then? How many accessibility problems do AccDC have?

If that resource you are telling about is so great and good and so well promoted it should have a better influence...

 

Octavian

 

[Ryan E. Benson]

I have to agree with Scott here. Where I work we have to look at things we use a bit more closely. While I can advocate and probably get AccDC added to our templates, that is another download we force upon the visitors. Having jQueryUI be able to do the magic it does without extra stuff will make the web management leadership happy from a page weigh perspective and me happy for accessibility.

--
Ryan E. Benson

--

[Bryan Garaventa]

It's not my intent to make people use anything.

 

I recommend that people test widgets for accessibility before making any decisions, and if I have accessible widgets that don't currently exist anywhere else, I welcome other developers to see how they are done so that equally accessible implementations will propagate.

 

This won't happen though, if accessibility continues to be seen as a competition.

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Ryan E. Benson

To: free...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2012 10:57 AM

Subject: Re: [free-aria] Accessible bootstrapping is now available using semantic HTML markup.

[Vinnie Young]

@Ryan 

> While I can advocate and probably get AccDC added to our templates, that is another download we force upon the visitors.

Ideally you'd be compiling your JS with Google Closure Compiler or something similar.

> Having jQueryUI be able to do the magic it does without extra stuff will make the web management leadership happy from a page weigh perspective and me happy for accessibility.

Where I work, we can rarely rely just on jQuery UI.  Product has so many custom requirements for widgets it is often easier to write the widget from scratch or continue using what custom implementation you already have.  Having an ancient code base where upgrading frameworks is not a likely scenario... sucks.  jQuery UI ain't no silver accessibility bullet.  It's amazing helpful at times, but isn't always practical.