Anyone used this old Harris gas-saver?

[Mark Bulgier]

Just got this "Harris Calorific 64-2" (see attachment) on ebay, couldn't resist because it's old and funky, made of cast iron.  I like old tools.  Bought it even though I already had a very good gas saver, a Weldit W-101 from the '70s I think.  It's actually Mario Confente's old gas-saver.

The Harris seems like it may not be very good at it's job, unless I'm just not doing it right?  It doesn't shut both fuel and O2 off completely at the same time.  There are adjusting screws for both valves, but it seems like no matter how I adjust it, one side or the other is left cracked open just a tiny bit.  Maybe there's a sweet spot where both valves are completely off, but it must be a super-narrow sweet spot, because I haven't been able to hit it. So I left it where the O2 is still leaking a little when the torch is hung up.   So at the moment, I can only use it briefly then go and turn the bottles off, not something I'd want to leave running for a full shift of work.  Not that I, a retired hobbyist, ever do a full shift anymore, but still, I'd like it to work right and not waste gas.

The Weldit appears to be a better design.  It really shuts both lines off when you hang the torch.  Judging from the looks, I think the Harris may be much older.  I'm getting zero relevant hits when I search that model number.

Any ideas?  I might hook it up to a torch that uses my oxygen concentrator instead of bottled O2, and have it turn off only the fuel when I hang the torch, and leave the O2 running a little.  I know that's not the recommended way to turn a torch off, but O2 concentrators don't like it when you turn the torch valve off.  They freak out, and soon a nurse comes running in!  Kidding but these generators are medical devices and a patient might die if the O2 stops flowing, so the alarm is understandable in their normal usage.

I'm still setting up my shop and deciding where to put things and how to do things.  Soon though, I really should actually build a frame, or stop calling myself a framebuilder...

Today I did actually use both gas-savers at once, the Harris gas-saver with a little Smith AW1 torch with a Paige rosebud, and the Weldit with a big ol' Harris 43-2 torch with an enormous rosebud.  I was heating a large heavy chunk of 5/8" thick steel plate, that was slow to heat up even with two rosebuds — definitely not what I'm used to from the bike world.  I wasn't sure which torch I was going to hang up when it was time to pick up the brass rod, so it was nice to have them both on gas-savers. (Turns out I hung up the small Smith and kept the big Harris running, it needed that much heat.)  Running both rosebuds off one O2 and one propane bottle with Y-splitters, I was using so much O2 that the regulator got pretty cold and it was covered in condensation when I was through.  Didn't ice up though, thankfully.  Fun!

Another over-long email, thanks if you read this far.

Mark Bulgier in Seattle

[M-gineering]

On 8/22/2022 2:05 PM, Mark Bulgier wrote:

> The Harris seems like it may not be very good at it's job, unless I'm
> just not doing it right?  It doesn't shut both fuel and O2 off
> completely at the same time.

Test the valves without all the hoses. I can't see what your setup was
but if you have a lot of volume in the hoses the oxygen (at higher
pressure) will run longer than the acetylene
--
mvg

Marten Gerritsen

Kiel Windeweer
Netherlands

[Mark Bulgier]

Marten G wrote:

> Test the valves without all the hoses. I can't see what your setup was
> but if you have a lot of volume in the hoses the oxygen (at higher
> pressure) will run longer than the acetylene

Thanks, but probably not in this case.  The hoses from the gas saver to the torch are fairly short, and my fuel and O2 pressures are equal.  And the leaking isn't for a short transition after hanging up, it's continuous. And depending on how I adjust the screws, the fuel (propane in my case) can be the one that leaks after hanging up.  

That's how I first noticed the problem — the flame at the tip never went out, because I had inadvertently adjusted it to shut the O2 down completely but with a little fuel still leaking.  Made its own pilot light, maybe not such a bad thing?  But I'd still rather have it working properly.

Mark B

[Mark Bulgier]

Michael Fabian sent me this excerpt from an ebay auction of a 1929 Harris catalog that shows the #64 "Gasaver". 

Thanks Michael!

Looks identical to mine except for the nameplate.  I wonder if it was already an old design by 1929, that'd be wild. I'm guessing mine is newer though, maybe a lot newer if they just didn't change the design for many decades.  Mine does have the "-2" added to the model name, so something is probably updated on it somewhere.

Anyway, nothing too helpful there, just kinda cool I think.

[Jim Adney]

On 22 Aug 2022 at 23:44, Mark Bulgier wrote:

> The hoses from the gas saver to the torch are fairly short, and my fuel and
> O2 pressures are equal. And the leaking isn't for a short transition after
> hanging up, it's continuous. And depending on how I adjust the screws, the
> fuel (propane in my case) can be the one that leaks after hanging up.

A look at the catalog illustration that came along later made it clear that the
two set screws that apparently operate the valves tend to work against one
another: Tightening one screw will tend to lift the other one. This would be
made worse by any wear in the pivot, which might be large by now.

It's also possible that this gas saver was made to expect a much larger and
heavier torch. You might get around that by making an extension for the arm,
increasing the mechanical advantage against the seats by a factor of 1.5-2.

I would still take the valve stems out and inspect the seats, stems, and pivot
for wear. There may well be something you can do to make these more
effective.

--
*******************************
Jim Adney, jad...@vwtype3.org
Madison, Wisconsin, USA
*******************************