Gsm is the world cellular winning standard...
Pierrot
Here is one of the last article published on the GSM world association (400
GSM opérators around 144 countries). GSM is by far superior to CDMA for a
global view. Here is why:
http://www.gsm.org/news/brazil2.html
The Brazil is actually choosing his future cellular standard... GSM 1800...
Sorry Qualcomm :-))
By choosing GSM, Brazil will make the definitly good choice for all future
brazilian custommers, even if USA and Qualcomm say the opposite...
GSM is the best...
Pierrot
****************************************************************************
********************************************
For the french cellular newsgroup:
Je poste une traduction plus courte en anglais sur 4 forums internationaux
des technologies cellulaires de mon post sur le choix technologique du
Brésil en étant un peu (beaucoup) partisan du GSM mais l'attitude des Etats
Unis étant tellement désinvolte, j'aimerai pousser le débat avec nos amis
anglo-saxons.
On va voir si le débat prend forme, ca devrait être intéressant...
Pierrot
ok
Fine.
If I posted a url from cdma.org, pointing to piece authored by Sprint PCS's
Public Relations director arguing subjectively on why CDMA is superior,
would tht prove anything? (other than it is the guy's job to promote his own
system?)
Incidentally are you the guy who said CDMA networks "will be obsolete in a
few months "?
This kind of hyperbole and then supposed serious references to public
relations pieces, is useless in an intelligent debate.
Pierrot <n...@email.com> wrote in message
news:2D6AFCD07F39A62B.4BE94F29...@lp.airnews.net...
Mike Fox
>
> Here is one of the last article published on the GSM world association (400
> GSM opérators around 144 countries). GSM is by far superior to CDMA for a
> global view. Here is why:
>
> http://www.gsm.org/news/brazil2.html
>
I know this is mainly PR fluff, but at least one thing out of that
article is patently false:
"CDMA (Code Division Multiple Access) is the creation of a California
company called Qualcomm, the noisiest challenger to GSM. [snip]
Their closed architecture leads to even higher
consumer prices and fewer consumer choices. "
Let's see what $30 a month buys you in my cellular market.
BellSouth (GSM): 250 min/month, no first incoming minute free, free LD
for a promotional period only, 11-month contract required, analog
roaming only possible on Nokia 5190/6190 phones with the purchase of a
$130 accessory adapter, plus BellSouth charges another $1.24 in any
month you make or receive a call to or from a landline, so their price
is really $31.24/mo for real-world users.
Sprint PCS (CDMA): 300 min/month, first incoming minute free, free
domestic LD for as long as you keep the service, no contract required,
seamless analog roaming on many phone models for less than the cost of
the Nokia 5190/6190 even before factoring the cost of the analog module,
no landline connection fees!
Tell me again how CDMA is restricting consumer choice and keeping prices
high? Whoever wrote that article probably should have have actually
checked consumer prices here before making such a blanket statement.
From this consumer's point of view, who cares if the architecture is
closed? From a consumer's point of view, CDMA is more open because it
roams on analog networks cheaper and easier. Also, GSM providers
SIM-lock their phones anyway, so from a consumer point of view GSM is
just as closed as CDMA.
I wish GSM had become the pervasive standard here in the U.S. I would
have preferred it. But the fact that it hasn't isn't because of some
consipiracy or technology holy war, it's the fault of the GSM equipment
manufacturers who failed to meet the competitive challenge from
Qualcomm, and the GSM service providers who fail to meet the competitive
challenge from Sprint PCS and other CDMA operators.
Mike
ok
Mike Fox <mik...@attglobal.net> wrote in message
news:38F776A6...@attglobal.net...
> I know this is mainly PR fluff...
Good call Mike...the author is the Public Relations Director for
Omnipoint....
The fact that that is not attributed in the article is unethical in the
extreme.
Pierrot
ok <gen...@provider.com> a écrit dans le message :
m4KJ4.2556$X56.1...@typhoon1.gnilink.net...
> Excuse me, you have every right to cheer GSM given your vested interest.
> Fine.
>
> If I posted a url from cdma.org, pointing to piece authored by Sprint
PCS's
> Public Relations director arguing subjectively on why CDMA is superior,
> would tht prove anything? (other than it is the guy's job to promote his
own
> system?)
But you don't reply to the facts prestented by the author of this url...
I was waiting something else like answer to try to explain how CDMA could be
better than GSM...
Where are proves ? concrete facts to say CDMA is superior ?
> Incidentally are you the guy who said CDMA networks "will be obsolete in a
> few months "?
>
Sure, they will... IS 95 can not compare to WIDE CDMA wich is not owned by
Qualcomm but By Ericsson...
WIDE CDMA is technically ready and will be the essential composante of the
UMTS networks in Europe, Africa, Asia, Orient and probably Pacific
countries...
Only USA and Canada as always, will use another technology (CDMA 2000) just
because they can't stand to use a world standard they have not developped...
ok
> But you don't reply to the facts prestented by the author of this url...
The "author" my friend is paid by the GSM industry..he is the public
relations director of Omnipoint..a GSM provider...
Did you think no one was going to check up on this planted story? It is
unethical to present this as an article when it is just and advertisement
for GSM by people paid to write.
Get serious.
Jason Whiteley
The author's arguements are all well and good, but the one thing he didn't
mention (or did I miss it) was coverage. In a country like Australia, where
tiny towns can be 50-60 kilometres or more from major towns, CDMA makes sense.
GSM only has a range of about 40kms, much less than that in "peak" times. They
have to put tons of GSM base stations to the point where in Adelaide, the
providers have a base station in almost every suburb, just so people can get the
minimum 2-3 reception bars required to make a call.
I don't understand why it is that we are using GSM in Australia, and because you
have to replace you're phone, and you're phone number, consumers don't have much
choice.
However, to be fair, in some hilly parts of Queensland they've been having a lot
of trouble with CDMA coverage as well.
I know that Telstra's CDMA Pre-paid costs the same as GSM ($99 for the phone
(Hyundai) and same costs for the calls) so I don't really see the author's
points about cost.
Please reply with comments.
Seeya
Jason
Pierrot wrote:
> Here is one of the last article published on the GSM world association (400
> GSM opérators around 144 countries). GSM is by far superior to CDMA for a
> global view. Here is why:
>
> http://www.gsm.org/news/brazil2.html
>
Marcus AAkesson
<jjc...@iweb.net.au> wrote:
>The author's arguements are all well and good, but the one thing he didn't
>mention (or did I miss it) was coverage. In a country like Australia, where
>tiny towns can be 50-60 kilometres or more from major towns, CDMA makes sense.
>GSM only has a range of about 40kms, much less than that in "peak" times. They
>have to put tons of GSM base stations to the point where in Adelaide, the
>providers have a base station in almost every suburb, just so people can get the
>minimum 2-3 reception bars required to make a call.
While this is technically correct, consumers now want small, hand-held
phones with long standby & talk times. That makes those distances
impossible anyway. The limitation is in 99.99% the handset, not the
theoretical distance limit. The modern phones requires densely built
networks, and in most places where the terrain is so open that a
longer distance would be possible, the need for capacity is usually
low, so extended-range GSM can be used.
/Marcus
--
Marcus AAkesson marcus.akesson@NO_SPAM_PLEASE_home.se
Gothenburg Callsigns: SM6XFN & SB4779
Sweden
>>>>>> Keep the world clean - no HTML in news or mail ! <<<<<<
ok
Jason Whiteley <jjc...@iweb.net.au> wrote in message
news:38F7E2C0...@iweb.net.au...
> Unlike most of the people replying to this thread, I read the URL.
Yes I read it too, many times before. It was written by Omnipoint's Public
Relation Director. Omnipoint is a (failed) GSM provider in the states.
Stuart G. Friedman
around the world which is puzzling. China (CDMA) and Ukraine (TDMA) come to
mind, but I know there is others.
Does Brazil have a 900hz network? If not, it seems odd to have only an
1800hz GSM network. It would seem that a 900hz network would increase
roaming possibilities and revenue. As I recall there is a network running
in Rio based on American style technology (TDMA, CDMA, or iDEN). I don't
remember which.
Stu
Stu
ok <gen...@provider.com> wrote in message
news:mfZJ4.2772$X56.1...@typhoon1.gnilink.net...
Scott Schelle
of the pops in the US and were consolidated into VoiceStream in the ongoing
national GSM rollup. By your measure McCaw, Bell Atlantic and Airtouch are
failures as well.
Alfred Molon
> The author's arguements are all well and good, but the one thing he didn't
> mention (or did I miss it) was coverage. In a country like Australia, where
> tiny towns can be 50-60 kilometres or more from major towns, CDMA makes sense.
> GSM only has a range of about 40kms, much less than that in "peak"
times.
Jason, isn't Australia the country where they reduced the number of
channels frequency from eight to four, to extend the GSM range from 35 to
70 km ?
--
Alfred Molon
To reply replace NOSPAM with csi
James Weber
It has been done in Australia, but only for a modest number of rural
cells. For instance Telstra has GSM cells in a number of surprisingly
small communities that are a long way from the big city and are not
major tourist destinations likes Ayers Rock (which also has a Telstra
cell), for instance Cooktown, Tennant Creek and Cloncurry. And they
didn't alter the number of channels, they have given up the adjacent
time slots to allow for delays longer than the timing advance limit of
about 210 microseconds. This allows calls to be received whose timing
would have put them into the next time slot.
The range gains from CDMA are more a direct result of the Shannon
Equation than anything else. CDMA can operate with Signal to noise
ratios far lower than GSM. However in order to keep the signal to
noise ratio at a level that will permit long range operation, you
cannot have very many calls active in a cell. Fortunately that's
exactly the situation in rural Australia.
ok
Scott Schelle <ssch...@home.com> wrote in message
news:Nq%J4.47606$E85.8...@news1.rdc1.md.home.com...
Keith Vibert
just "just so people can get the
minimum 2-3 reception bars required to make a call" but also to
increase capacity.
GSM does just fine with a -95db or less signal!
A good by-product is that the overall signal level for most customers is
higher, but I can assure you that a GSM network with very few customers
can run quite nicely with very few sites.
Remember, operators have a finite number of channels to play with,
otherwise fewer cells with more channels would be used.
As customer numbers go up, the network is optimised, existing cells are
down-powered and antennas down-tilted to reduce coverage and
interference- there's just no other options but to "build out" with more
sites.
Extended range cells seldom make sense either , as in most situations
the signal strength at 35km is too weak to maintain a connection with a
handheld phone inside a vehicle.
Before the Telstra GSM network was live in Perth (late '92), there was
one omni site on top of a 60 story building (QV-1), and that basically
covered the whole city at street level (not too well inside buildings).
Cheers,
Keith
Jason Whiteley wrote:
>
> Unlike most of the people replying to this thread, I read the URL.
>
> The author's arguements are all well and good, but the one thing he didn't
> mention (or did I miss it) was coverage. In a country like Australia, where
> tiny towns can be 50-60 kilometres or more from major towns, CDMA makes sense.
> GSM only has a range of about 40kms, much less than that in "peak" times. They
> have to put tons of GSM base stations to the point where in Adelaide, the
> providers have a base station in almost every suburb, just so people can get the
> minimum 2-3 reception bars required to make a call.
>
Scott Schelle
a la AT&T Wireless and Sprint PCS than anything else.
BTW, I still think that by you measure, now measures, AT&T Wireless and Bell
Atlantic would still have to be considered failures, since Sprint PCS has
taken such a big bite of everyone's market share pie.
"ok" <gen...@provider.com> wrote in message
news:Vn3K4.3270$X56.1...@typhoon1.gnilink.net...
> Omnipoint has been losing market share continuously. This is failure to
me.
>
>
> Scott Schelle <ssch...@home.com> wrote in message
> news:Nq%J4.47606$E85.8...@news1.rdc1.md.home.com...
> > It don't think Omnipoint failed at all, they wound up owning about a
third
> > of the pops in the US and were consolidated into VoiceStream in the
> ongoing
> > national GSM rollup. By your measure McCaw, Bell Atlantic and Airtouch
are
> > failures as well.
> >
> > "ok" <gen...@provider.com> wrote in message
> > news:mfZJ4.2772$X56.1...@typhoon1.gnilink.net...
> > >
> > > Jason Whiteley <jjc...@iweb.net.au> wrote in message
> > > news:38F7E2C0...@iweb.net.au...
> > > > Unlike most of the people replying to this thread, I read the URL.
> > >
Brendon Black
news:MPG.1363012c9...@news.supernews.com...
> Jason, isn't Australia the country where they reduced the number of
> channels frequency from eight to four, to extend the GSM range from 35 to
> 70 km ?
AFAIK Telstra tried it but never released it.
Jason Whiteley
have a car-kit with a giant antenna mounted to the roof.
Alfred Molon wrote:
> In article <38F7E2C0...@iweb.net.au>, jjc...@iweb.net.au says...
> > The author's arguements are all well and good, but the one thing he didn't
> > mention (or did I miss it) was coverage. In a country like Australia, where
> > tiny towns can be 50-60 kilometres or more from major towns, CDMA makes sense.
> > GSM only has a range of about 40kms, much less than that in "peak"
> times.
>
> Jason, isn't Australia the country where they reduced the number of
> channels frequency from eight to four, to extend the GSM range from 35 to
> 70 km ?
ok
> They were losing market share more due to the lack of a nationwide
offering
> a la AT&T Wireless and Sprint PCS than anything else.
Right...they had a failing business plan. It did fail in fact and the
company was bought.
Let's face it. the article cited was not written by a journalist, but by the
head of Omnipoint's Public relations department. That was not exposed in the
publication of this so called "article." this is highly unethical.
Moreover the finger wagging by the author is much more about business issues
than technical ones, thereby making it without credibility.
Especially considering the advocacy of a single standard...ie no cometition,
no low prices. When gsm was the only digital choice in the US, the gsm
companies, led by Omnipoint, which IS a CASE STUDY in business FAILURE,
screwed up and were eaten for lunch when their overpirced plans faced
cometetion.
Thomas Fleming
GSM was already serving most of the country via OPTUS etc. I point this out
only as a fairness point in this discussion since GSM is still my choice,
but some of these arguments are getting irrational.
Jason Whiteley <jjc...@iweb.net.au> wrote in message
news:38F7E2C0...@iweb.net.au...
> Unlike most of the people replying to this thread, I read the URL.
>
> The author's arguements are all well and good, but the one thing he didn't
> mention (or did I miss it) was coverage. In a country like Australia,
where
> tiny towns can be 50-60 kilometres or more from major towns, CDMA makes
sense.
> GSM only has a range of about 40kms, much less than that in "peak" times.
Wolfgang Dazy
--
Wolfgang Dazy
E-mail : wolfga...@free.fr / daz...@epita.fr
Web : http://wolfgang.dazy.free.fr / http://www.epita.fr/~dazy_w
Jason Whiteley <jjc...@iweb.net.au> a écrit dans le message :
38F7E2C0...@iweb.net.au...
> Unlike most of the people replying to this thread, I read the URL.
>
> The author's arguements are all well and good, but the one thing he didn't
> mention (or did I miss it) was coverage. In a country like Australia,
where
> tiny towns can be 50-60 kilometres or more from major towns, CDMA makes
sense.
> GSM only has a range of about 40kms, much less than that in "peak" times.
They
> have to put tons of GSM base stations to the point where in Adelaide, the
> providers have a base station in almost every suburb, just so people can
get the
> minimum 2-3 reception bars required to make a call.
>
> I don't understand why it is that we are using GSM in Australia, and
because you
> have to replace you're phone, and you're phone number, consumers don't
have much
> choice.
>
> However, to be fair, in some hilly parts of Queensland they've been having
a lot
> of trouble with CDMA coverage as well.
>
> I know that Telstra's CDMA Pre-paid costs the same as GSM ($99 for the
phone
> (Hyundai) and same costs for the calls) so I don't really see the author's
> points about cost.
>
> Please reply with comments.
>
> Seeya
>
James Weber
<tom-f...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>And it should be pointed out that Telstra chose CDMA despite the fact that
>GSM was already serving most of the country via OPTUS etc. I point this out
>only as a fairness point in this discussion since GSM is still my choice,
>but some of these arguments are getting irrational.
Yes they choose CDMA. They had a gun held at their heads, and the
lowest cost way to provide the service that was demanded was.
CDMA was picked because it can co-exist with the existing analog
infrastructure which is is replacing. In addition, many CDMA phones
also support the analog network it is replacing. There very few GSM
phones that support 800Mhz AMPS operation. When all said and done, I
suspect for every CDMA subscriber Telstra has, there will be 10 GSM
subscribers.
To date the implementation has been anything bu smooth .
I note that there has been not even a hint that Telstra, who is the
largest GSM operator in Australia, is even thinking about shrinking,
or replacing any part of the GSM network with CDMA.
Marcus AAkesson
<tom-f...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>And it should be pointed out that Telstra chose CDMA despite the fact that
>GSM was already serving most of the country via OPTUS etc. I point this out
>only as a fairness point in this discussion since GSM is still my choice,
>but some of these arguments are getting irrational.
What else was there to do with the 800 MHz spectrum after AMPS ?
ok
news:8dfuph$7l6$1...@antares.worldonline.fr...
> Ca y est, tout les américains se déchaînent ! ;o)))
that is why you are now moving to our cdma for third generation...thanks.
Pierrot
Next time, check the specifications in UMTS in Europe before posting wrong
things...
Pierrot
ok <gen...@provider.com> a écrit dans le message :
bdOK4.195$Ez2....@typhoon1.gnilink.net...
Pierrot
alt.cellular.gsm, je te recommande d'y faire un saut...
C'est franchement de la folie, ils sont pires que certains fanatiques mais
certains sont surtout de mauvaise foi...
Mais bon, c'est l'Amérique... ça me rappelle le temps ou j'étais en vacances
à Chicago, et où on m'a demandé comment allait Louis XIV et si on
connaissait le café, les voitures et les avions en Europe...
No comment...
:-))))
Pierrot
Wolfgang Dazy <wolfga...@free.fr> a écrit dans le message :
8dfuph$7l6$1...@antares.worldonline.fr...
> Ca y est, tout les américains se déchaînent ! ;o)))
ok
Don't cry about it...accept it, GSM is being replaced in Europe by our CDMA.
But no need to panic in France....you will undoubtedly be the last to
modernize. So you can continue to be chauvinistic about GSM and tell the
Finns, Swedes and Germans they are all wrong...
ok
pires que certains fanatiques mais
> certains sont surtout de mauvaise foi...
> Mais bon, c'est l'Amérique... ça me rappelle le temps ou j'étais en
vacances
Kind of like a my French friends who think George Washington is president.
thegame
Us can't win each time!
The g@me!
ok <gen...@provider.com> a écrit dans le message :
Rn1L4.864$GV5....@typhoon2.gnilink.net...
thegame
Marcus AAkesson
>Of course it is our CDMA
Well, it would be equal to say then that all cellular/mobile telephony
is Swedish, since we invented the concepts and set up the first
systems.
Graeme Willox
> Et encore, tu n'as pas vu tous les posts dans alt.cellular et
> alt.cellular.gsm, je te recommande d'y faire un saut...
>
> C'est franchement de la folie, ils sont pires que certains fanatiques mais
> certains sont surtout de mauvaise foi...
> Mais bon, c'est l'Amérique... ça me rappelle le temps ou j'étais en vacances
I know I've crossposted in this reply, but why are you posting to all these
newsgroups in French? Only one of them is clearly identified as being french?
Paul Day
> Don't cry about it...accept it, GSM is being replaced in Europe by our CDMA.
_our_ CDMA. The moment I find a yank who's head isn't 4ft up his arse in
these newsgroups I think I'll die of shock.
PD
Aurélien
that make three of US.
Un vrai débarquement.
@+
Aurélien
________________________________________________________
The Rules Have Changed...Get Paid to Surf the Web!
http://www.alladvantage.com/go.asp?refid=CIG-553
________________________________________________________
A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.
-- Winston Churchill
________________________________________________________
Gillou
CDMA.
We don't panic...
60 millions people in France...
near 22 millions cell phones...
More than 1/3 of the Frenchs are cellphoning!!
can you even dare compare the usa to us?
And you would do nothing if the foreign brains don't come in your "fat free"
country !
Most major inventions of the 20th century ARE NOT AMERICAN!
They're EUROPEAN, and a big part IS FRENCH !
FRANCCCEEEE RULLLEEZZZZZZ !
JJinky
<tig...@free.fr> wrote:
>FRANCCCEEEE RULLLEEZZZZZZ !
>
Yeah, but your women don't shave their armpits and the men don't
use deoderant. Besides, we saved your asses in WW2. -J
* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!
Rod Speed
Paul Day <bon...@opera.iinet.net.au> wrote in
message news:38fd2284$0$23...@motown.iinet.net.au...
> The moment I find a yank who's head isn't 4ft up his
> arse in these newsgroups I think I'll die of shock.
Sooner the better, Night. Keep looking.
Aurélien
> >
> Yeah, but your women don't shave their armpits and the men don't
> use deoderant. Besides, we saved your asses in WW2. -J
>
yes, but we aren't all fat pig.
don't you think that preconceived ideas are stupid ?
Aurélien
________________________________________________________
The Rules Have Changed...Get Paid to Surf the Web!
http://www.alladvantage.com/go.asp?refid=CIG-553
________________________________________________________
A baby is God's opinion that the world should go on.
-- Carl Sandburg
________________________________________________________
Cyril
chickened out and sent their boys in 1940 instead of 1944, maybe a few
millions Jews would have survived that war. Think about it.
Also, had you come earlier, you would've made much less money on our
backs, and it would've taken much longer to impose yourself as number 1.
It's easier walk over people when they're on the ground...
> >
> Yeah, but your women don't shave their armpits and the men don't
> use deoderant. Besides, we saved your asses in WW2. -J
>
> * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion
Network *
> The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet -
Free!
>
>
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
ok
Graeme Willox <graeme...@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:38FD0C36...@optusnet.com.au...
> Pierrot wrote:
>
> > Et encore, tu n'as pas vu tous les posts dans alt.cellular et
> > alt.cellular.gsm, je te recommande d'y faire un saut...
> >
these
> newsgroups in French? Only one of them is clearly identified as being
french?
Didn't you know French is the linga franca of the world? Kinda like a phone
standard that is way better despite the fact that ...strangly...no one uses
it? When will the world learn they are all erring horribly by not using
French?
Aurélien
phone
> standard that is way better despite the fact that ...strangly...no one
uses
> it? When will the world learn they are all erring horribly by not using
> French?
what does it have to do with GSM / CDMA ?
nothing !!!
are-you lacking arguments ????
C U
Aurélien
________________________________________________________
The Rules Have Changed...Get Paid to Surf the Web!
http://www.alladvantage.com/go.asp?refid=CIG-553
________________________________________________________
A classic is something that everybody wants to have read and nobody
wants to read.
-- Mark Twain
________________________________________________________
Krrash
Aurélien <no_laur...@iname.com> a écrit dans le message :
8dk0kd$emp$1...@reader1.fr.uu.net...
> > >FRANCCCEEEE RULLLEEZZZZZZ !
> > >
> > >
> > Yeah, but your women don't shave their armpits
Of course they do !!!
and the men don't
> > use deoderant.
Of course we do !!!
>Besides, we saved your asses in WW2
And do you remember LaFayette ???
>
>
> yes, but we aren't all fat pig.
Of course that's true too !!! :)))
>
>
> don't you think that preconceived ideas are stupid ?
Yes, idem ! ;-D
Krrash
ok
Aurélien <no_laur...@iname.com> wrote in message
news:8dk80d$kcp$1...@reader1.fr.uu.net...
> > Didn't you know French is the linga franca of the world? Kinda like a
> phone
> > standard that is way better despite the fact that ...strangly...no one
> uses
> > it? When will the world learn they are all erring horribly by not using
> > French?
>
> what does it have to do with GSM / CDMA ?
>
> nothing !!!
>
> are-you lacking arguments ?
No, but you clearly can't understand the simplest of metaphors.
My slow friend we are talking about differentials or lack of correlation in
a systems quality vs. adoption rate and the factors that influence that
phenomena.
I should think as a French person you should actually agree that even though
French has lost market share, that that necessarily prove that English is
superior, given other considerations. Same with CDMA vs. GSM.
are you lacking brains or education?
Pierrot
thegame <the...@libertysurf.fr> a écrit dans le message :
8dik8v$inu$1...@news6.isdnet.net...
Pierrot
people who replies to your posts...
Haven't you seen you also are posting your message to
fr.reseaux.telecoms.mobiles ???
By saying what you said about Europeans people, you should not be surprised
to see this flood of hostile reactions, I have noticed many and many replies
from people from Sweden, from Germany, from France, from UK saying all your
arguments had no sense...
Even people who was encouraged you before have now, stopped to support
you...
Sure you give a really bad image to CDMA with the kind of replies you
make...
There is only you who can't understand that...
The kind of speech who says "All french people are ...." have not his place
here. But you seems not to understand that. You have no more arguments to
defend your CDMA and you begin to be crazy of that because you know most of
things which has been said here about GSM by many of participants are
true...
But if you want, if you are masochist, you can continue, several thousands
of french people are reading you in this newsgroups and don't forget many of
us also understand english... Don't be surprise...
And maybe if you have the courage (that I don't believe) and as you said you
was knowing well France, you could come visit us at
fr.reseaux.telecoms.mobiles and discuss with us about your very diplomate
posts about Europe...
You're so ridiculous OK, you make us (many participants) laughting...
Pierrot
ok <gen...@provider.com> a écrit dans le message :
MrlL4.1450$Ez2....@typhoon1.gnilink.net...
ok
Graeme Willox
> And it should be pointed out that Telstra chose CDMA despite the fact that
> GSM was already serving most of the country via OPTUS etc. I point this out
> only as a fairness point in this discussion since GSM is still my choice,
> but some of these arguments are getting irrational.
Hi.
They chose CDMA, but they also run a GSM network. Although it exists in urban
areas too, I think that CDMA is largely a replacement for AMPS in rural areas.
Greg Alexander
> Of course it is our CDMA
Damn, I can't remember who came up with the CDMA idea. If I remember
correctly it was during the 40's around the war, and has been used in
military applications for many years. It may well have been American.
Anyone know?
> Don't cry about it...accept it, GSM is being replaced in Europe by our
CDMA.
The theory of Code Division instead of Time Division is to be used in 3G
in Europe, and most of the rest of the world. I believe it is commonly
accepted as being better for data, but there is debate on voice
(AFAIK, GSM and 'your' CDMA have similar quality).
> But no need to panic in France....you will undoubtedly be the last to
> modernize. So you can continue to be chauvinistic about GSM and tell the
> Finns, Swedes and Germans they are all wrong...
The good bits of GSM are being kept. The Code Division bits are being
added (as used in 'your' CDMA). Sounds like a nice result.
Greg
Dima Volodin
>
> Damn, I can't remember who came up with the CDMA idea. If I remember
> correctly it was during the 40's around the war, and has been used in
> military applications for many years. It may well have been American.
> Anyone know?
CDMA is an American invention allrigth, but what you can't remember is
not CDMA but another popular form of spread spectrum called frequency
hopping, patented in 1941 by Hollywood actress Hedy Kiesler Markey (aka
Hedwig Eva Maria Kiesler aka Hedy Lamarr) and Hollywood composer George
Antheil.
> Greg
Dima
Michael Wise
<gen...@provider.com> wrote:
> [The original poster also never responded to the issue of authorship of
> this
> "article" on GSM vs. CDMA and the fact that after some research it was
> revealed that the "author" was in fact the Public Relations Director of a
> GSM company! Perhaps he was having a hard time responding with both feet
> in
> his mouth. What was the response? A comment ...to prove American
> ignorance
> ...that his American friends ask him how Louis the 16th is doing. At
> first I
> was puzzled, I mean that does seem like an obscure and not too credible
> insult. But, truth be told, perhaps Louis the 16th is the last thing of
> remark to have been noticed out of France. I mean there certainly hasn't
> been any technology.]
Perhaps not in the cellular realm, but just about every major commercial
airline on the globe has at least some French-built aircraft (AirBus).
Even the US Coast Guard uses French-built helicopters (Aerospatiale
Dauphin) as their core rescue helo. In the realm of computers, the
French make some of the best ISDN hardware (SAT-Sagem). The French were
also widely doing the on-line discussion thing (Minitel) at least 10
years before most American consumers knew what a modem, BBS, or the
Internet were.
--Mike
(who is not French and not pro-GSM)
Felix Wessely
> correctly it was during the 40's around the war, and has been used in
> military applications for many years. It may well have been American.
> Anyone know?
>
As I know, the first "real" mobile phone was in Richmond in year 1957,
initiated by Allan B. DuMont in cooperation with the local phone
company. I think it was the first for self dialing. It worked on
FM-Band (UKW). It was only possible to make phone calls within
Richmond. The price was 40 USD per month including 24 free calls per
day. The phones where installed in cars.
I found this in one of the old issues of my magazine.
In general I agree: The extremely high penetration in Europe is
because
1. Often the costs for calls are equal or less expensive than calls
via GSM. Often much more expensive are call to other states. Those are
cheaper on wired lines.
2. In the former "eastern" countries the infrastructure for wired
lines is extremely bad.
3. In most countries it takes serveral months to get a wired line.
But I think GSM has more advanced possibilities for data services. But
anyway in about two years there will come up UMTS with will be used
worldwide. It seems to become the real global standard for the future.
Sincerely, Felix Wessely.
--
----------------------------------------------------------------
** Felix Wessely, Publisher ** praktiker Verlag /ITM praktiker *
** Wien, AUSTRIA * http://www.praktiker.at/
----------------------------------------------------------------
Greg Alexander
"Dima Volodin" <d...@dvv.org> wrote in message
news:39005F9B...@dvv.org...
> Greg Alexander wrote:
> >
> > Damn, I can't remember who came up with the CDMA idea. If I remember
> > correctly it was during the 40's around the war, and has been used in
> > military applications for many years. It may well have been American.
> > Anyone know?
>
> not CDMA but another popular form of spread spectrum called frequency
> hopping, patented in 1941 by Hollywood actress Hedy Kiesler Markey (aka
> Hedwig Eva Maria Kiesler aka Hedy Lamarr) and Hollywood composer George
> Antheil.
Thanks for the info.
I meant to differentiate between the CDMA mobile phone system (developed by
Qualcomm?) and the actual concepts behind CDMA. I believe GSM's 3G (UMTS)
uses the CDMA concepts, not the actual Qualcomm system.
Greg
(ps. my server won't post to alt.cellular.cdma.... may need to be readded to
newsgroup header...)
ok
Again, I can't help but have a great laugh at the idea of my comparison of
CDMA to the French language has neatly shut up the original poster.
If penetration and adoption speed indicate superiority, as he argued in the
GSM vs.CDMA issue, then he must agree that French is inferior.
But we know that is why he had to post in English.
Comment dites-vous l'ironie en français?
[The original poster also never responded to the issue of authorship of this
"article" on GSM vs. CDMA and the fact that after some research it was
revealed that the "author" was in fact the Public Relations Director of a
GSM company! Perhaps he was having a hard time responding with both feet in
his mouth. What was the response? A comment ...to prove American ignorance
...that his American friends ask him how Louis the 16th is doing. At first I
was puzzled, I mean that does seem like an obscure and not too credible
insult. But, truth be told, perhaps Louis the 16th is the last thing of
remark to have been noticed out of France. I mean there certainly hasn't
been any technology.]
Felix Wessely <fel...@praktiker.at> wrote in message
news:3482669300...@news.compuserve.com...
Pierrot
posts ?????
Take a little break and relax...
Poor Ok...
Pierrot
ok <gen...@provider.com> a écrit dans le message :
ftmL4.1460$Ez2....@typhoon1.gnilink.net...
Pierrot
> I think we all agree.
>
> Again, I can't help but have a great laugh at the idea of my comparison of
> CDMA to the French language has neatly shut up the original poster.
>
No, but I'm tired to discuss with narrow minded people like you...
And I don't want to lose my time anymore with people like you, that's very
simple.
That's funny, with your non-sens arguments, many people have now a bad idea
of CDMA...
That's sure with such an ambassador like you, CDMA could not be worst
served.
> If penetration and adoption speed indicate superiority, as he argued in
the
> GSM vs.CDMA issue, then he must agree that French is inferior.
Completly don't care about that kind of non-sens... :-))))
Out of subject and completly stupid...
>
> But we know that is why he had to post in English.
I use the correct language for the right newsgroup, most of the groups where
I have posted are english spoken, so, I post in english, it's very simple.
And about your phantasm of French inferiority, I guess you even don't know
which language is the most spoken in the world, it's not english... You're
so ridiculous OK... Go back to school to learn the basics of culture !!
>
> Comment dites-vous l'ironie en français?
Now, say what you want to say, be more and more ridiculous, you made laught
thousands of european people who has read you... We completly don't care
about what you can say...
Pierrot
ok
"Pierrot" posts a fake and false story written by someone paid by the GSM
industry as a "analysis" of the difference between GSM and CDMA. When this
is exposed, he still fails to answer.
Sorry for exposing you Pierrot. Anything else you would like?
Pierrot <n...@email.com> wrote in message
news:69AFB091B9E04E5D.1E4D68AF...@lp.airnews.net...
> Take a little break and relax.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I think we all agree.
Again, I can't help but have a great laugh at the idea of my comparison of
CDMA to the French language has neatly shut up the original poster.
If penetration and adoption speed indicate superiority, as he argued in the
GSM vs.CDMA issue, then he must agree that French is inferior.
But we know that is why he had to post in English.
Comment dites-vous l'ironie en français?
[The original poster also never responded to the issue of authorship of this
Richard B. Isaacs, CPP
> The "author" my friend is paid by the GSM industry..he is the public
> relations director of Omnipoint..a GSM provider...
>
> Did you think no one was going to check up on this planted story? It is
> unethical to present this as an article when it is just and advertisement
> for GSM by people paid to write.
The article was in http://www.gsmworld.com. which is the homepage of the GSM
association. Why would you consider a story on GSM, by a GSM participant, on a
GSM website, to be "planted?"
In addition, I am hard pressed to believe you actually bothered to read the
article. In essence, all it said was that Brazil already had TDMA and CDMA,
and that GSM would give travellers the ability to use their handsets abroad.
I'm not sure why you find fault with this.
--
Richard B. Isaacs, CPP
The LUBRINCO Group (http://www.lubrinco.com/)
International Investigative and Protective Services
Download the Business Security e-Journal free at
http://www.lubrinco.com/lgejournal.html
This book could save your life, and stop you from being afraid! Download it
free at http://www.lubrinco.com/lg7steps.html
Basit Mustafa
people who have it RIGHT. the rest of the world lives off our coattails, we have
to be doing SOMETHING right...
Paul Day wrote:
> In aus.comms.mobile ok <gen...@provider.com> wrote:
> > Don't cry about it...accept it, GSM is being replaced in Europe by our CDMA.
>
> _our_ CDMA. The moment I find a yank who's head isn't 4ft up his arse in
> these newsgroups I think I'll die of shock.
>
> PD
darkpilot
your stupid CDMA
PLEASE continu ALONE to do your bulshit eating your FAT and killing people
Basit Mustafa <bas...@cjnetworks.com> a écrit dans le message :
39038240...@cjnetworks.com...
ok
Richard B. Isaacs, CPP <RBIs...@lubrinco.com> wrote in message
news:390229A7...@lubrinco.com...
> The article was in http://www.gsmworld.com. which is the homepage of the
GSM
> association. Why would you consider a story on GSM, by a GSM participant,
on a
> GSM website, to be "planted?"
I am hard pressed to believe you actually bothered to read the article. The
writer clearly states that as a journalist he has traveled to many
countries, implying he is writing the piece as a journalist.
It is absolutely unethical for a writer who is a paid flack for a specific
company not to have this noted in any publication. That is not up for
dispute here.
ok
Can't help but notice he never replied to one single point raised.
Pierrot
participants. I agree with them.
Read them and you will guess what I would have wrote to your question.
The other point, I don't live in front of my computer evryday, so, don't be
surprised if you see not reply from me during a few days...
Pierrot
ok <gen...@provider.com> a écrit dans le message :
GkDN4.4597$26.1...@typhoon2.gnilink.net...
ok
Thanks for posting the planted story...it proved a lot/
Pierrot <n...@email.com> wrote in message
news:9FC9BA7CB2F3079B.C9563722...@lp.airnews.net...
Kevin Phillips
>
>ok <gen...@provider.com> a écrit dans le message :
>Vg7M4.761$J5.5...@typhoon1.gnilink.net...
>> I think we all agree.
>>
>> Again, I can't help but have a great laugh at the idea of my comparison of
>> CDMA to the French language has neatly shut up the original poster.
>>
>No, but I'm tired to discuss with narrow minded people like you...
>And I don't want to lose my time anymore with people like you, that's very
>simple.
>That's funny, with your non-sens arguments, many people have now a bad idea
>of CDMA...
>
>> If penetration and adoption speed indicate superiority, as he argued in
>the
>> GSM vs.CDMA issue, then he must agree that French is inferior.
>
>Completly don't care about that kind of non-sens... :-))))
>Out of subject and completly stupid...
>
>>
>> But we know that is why he had to post in English.
>
>I use the correct language for the right newsgroup, most of the groups where
>I have posted are english spoken, so, I post in english, it's very simple.
>
>And about your phantasm of French inferiority, I guess you even don't know
>which language is the most spoken in the world, it's not english... You're
>so ridiculous OK... Go back to school to learn the basics of culture !!
>
>>
>> Comment dites-vous l'ironie en français?
I have to say that given the arguments made in these postings, I have
had a good laugh.
If a European wants to assert that their regulatory controls and
decsions have had the result of better wireless development I have to
agree. I think the critic of the GSM is superior actually did agree.
I think the metaphor of the French language is apropos, and I dare
say, quite funny. If you apply the logicof GSM superiority to CDMA
being proven by its penetration they you hve to say French is
inferior.
This is clearly not an attack on French but an attack on the rather
shallow logic.
As far as an "article" critiquing the various systems which does not
note that the author is a paid propagandist of the GSM industry, that
also deserved valid derision as unethical. It was also clearly posted
as a provocation.
So Pierre, if you missed the irony of your rather chauvinism being
mocked by your own arguments, that is your loss.
Marcus AAkesson
<fel...@praktiker.at> wrote:
>As I know, the first "real" mobile phone was in Richmond in year 1957,
>initiated by Allan B. DuMont in cooperation with the local phone
>company. I think it was the first for self dialing. It worked on
>FM-Band (UKW). It was only possible to make phone calls within
>Richmond. The price was 40 USD per month including 24 free calls per
>day. The phones where installed in cars.
The worlds first fully automatic mobile telephone system, the Lauhrén
system, was set up in Stockholm in 1951, and went into public service
in 1956.
http://www.telemuseum.se/historia/mobtel/mobteleng.html
/Marcus
--
Marcus AAkesson marcus.akesson@NO_SPAM_PLEASE_home.se
Gothenburg Callsigns: SM6XFN & SB4779
Sweden
>>>>>> Keep the world clean - no HTML in news or mail ! <<<<<<
Dima Volodin
handoff, _both_ BSes listen and talk to the phone, _Wireless PCS_, ISBN
0-07-036077-4, section 8.10.
Dima