Sad news from the European Commission
kickniko
"no". I upload the PDF document with the evaluation in a few minutes,
so that everybody can read and think about it.
Anyway, now what? I guess we should stick to the points of critique
and improve the short proposal, since the critique is quite clear. Our
idea seems to be of high interest but we din't quite address the
targets/breakthroughs, risks, etc.
Please tell me what you think and let's try a second time.
Cheers,
Nick
Rajendra Akerkar
I'm sorry about this, however I think you have made a fantastic work with the proposal.
Regards,
Rajendra
_______________
Rajendra Akerkar
Senior Researcher
Vestlandsforsking
P.Box 163
6851 Sogndal, Norway
Phone: +47 916 85 607
Fax: +47 947 63 727
URL: www.vestforsk.no
Kor, Ah-Lian
Dear Nick,
Yes, we ought to give it another shot.
Ah Lian
| To view the terms under which this email is distributed, please go to http://disclaimer.leedsmet.ac.uk/email.htm |
Grimshaw, Mark
That's a shame. I'm keen to resubmit so let's study the critique well.
Mark
milan
those are bad news for Monday :(
however, I am sure that we can make our proposal better and resubmit it.
Let us give Nick some space to catch up and after that continue with our
work.
cheers,
Milan
Nina van der Vaart
I am sorry to hear this. However I also think we can try again following the
feedback from the evaluation and being more specific in our objectives and
methodology.
Regards,
Nina
-----Mensaje original-----
De: fp7-semantic...@googlegroups.com
[mailto:fp7-semantic...@googlegroups.com] En nombre de Grimshaw,
Mark
Enviado el: lunes, 04 de octubre de 2010 6:55
Para: fp7-semantic...@googlegroups.com
Asunto: RE: [fp7-semantics-consortium] Sad news from the European Commission
Giovanni Tummarello
I myself i have been pretty skeptical of this proposal in the way it
was written for its brazen refusal to say or be grounded into anything
concrete.
suggestions to improve in this sense have been previously discarded,
maybe now they can be given a bit more attention, but again i'd like
to read the report.
cheers
Giovanni
Grimshaw, Mark
I don't think the report has come through yet -- I would prefer to read it before forming an opinion as to why the proposal was rejected.
Mark
--
Dr. Mark Grimshaw
Reader in Creative Technologies
School of Business & Creative Technologies
University of Bolton
Work: http://www.bolton.ac.uk/gcct/
Personal: http://www.wikindx.com
milan
http://fp7-semantics-consortium.googlegroups.com/web/Result+Letter_SEMACOMP.
Pdf?hl=hr&gda=jy2HpEwAAADGcJcXtuGC8aXsclW0o7kjrfXSi4_mKF8XNGG83okUDTOP1cvqGl
UpIKoVCXLFcN2Ozja_iyu15QpNujdpc4hKjTgHGf-GlUlH5b9eTqbHEQ
is that a report or there sholud be something more in next period of time?
cheers,
Milan
-----Original Message-----
From: fp7-semantic...@googlegroups.com
[mailto:fp7-semantic...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Grimshaw,
Mark
Grimshaw, Mark
Yes, that's the report. I suppose the first question to ask is, are we allowed to resubmit (short proposal FET-Open might have different rules to other FPS programmes)? If so, my understanding of the report is that, while we do have the necessary foundational character to the proposal, it lacks clarity particularly with regard to breakthrough and methodology.
Mark
--
Dr. Mark Grimshaw
Reader in Creative Technologies
School of Business & Creative Technologies
University of Bolton
Work: http://www.bolton.ac.uk/gcct/
Personal: http://www.wikindx.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: fp7-semantic...@googlegroups.com [mailto:fp7-semantics-
> conso...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of milan
> Sent: 04 October 2010 09:32
> To: fp7-semantic...@googlegroups.com
> Subject: RE: [fp7-semantics-consortium] Sad news from the European
> Commission
>
Elena Zamsa
What a pitty, bad news after such a nice week in Brussels!
I will read also and write later my oppinion.
@Milan - I was in Brussels and busy with my wedding, but i prommise to send you information asap.
@Everybody - who is planning to attend Brockerage event and E-challenges in Poland?
Regards,
Elena
Grimshaw, Mark
Congratulations and felicitations on your wedding Elena!
Mark
--
Dr. Mark Grimshaw
Reader in Creative Technologies
School of Business & Creative Technologies
University of Bolton
Work: http://www.bolton.ac.uk/gcct/
Personal: http://www.wikindx.com
Elena Zamsa
Elena
milan
Dear Elena and all,
maybe those news will make us even stronger and give us an opportunity to make even better proposal (if possible?).
Best wishes for your wedding!! When you get some time, just send me information…
I am planning (just waiting to book a flight) to visit E-challenges in Poland.
Regards,
Milan
kickniko
After some repeated reading of the denial, as it was sent by the
commission, I too have very very good hopes that a re-proposal will
succeed very well.
First of all, as you have noticed, the threshold is 3.5 on the scale
of 1 (worst) to 5 (best), and we had a 3. So we need just another 0.5
points.
Second of all, alone the proposal itself was good enough for almost
all 3 points of our "rate", since the methodology, breakthrough and
novelty were considered not sufficiently well described. Which means
that by describing them better, we surely gain at least 1 more point.
So there is no reason, I think, for not retrying. The question of
course is then, *if and how* we are allowed to retry at all, as Mark
already said. So the first think that I will do next will be to see
how this can be done. Of course I am going to keep you informed about
that.
In addition I will be trying to address the problems of our proposal
better. The big problem that I see here is, that we deviated from the
quite detailed mathematical/historical clarification that we had in
the first versions of the proposal. It is this that makes clear what
exactly the aim and methodology is going to be. Without a serious re-
consideration of the methodologies existing up to now (in contrast to
ours) the clarity suffers. Giovanni has already pointed out that this
way it sounds like wanting to solve the problem of AI, which is
definitely not our aim - but it does sound this way. Also, in the
comments of the result letter you can read that the role of category
theory in connection to linguistics, etc. is not really clear. So, in
order to make it clear there has to be a more exact and detailed
description of "what is this all about", and how, why and for which
purpose the different science branches have to be combined the way we
planned. BTW, I will try to make it both clear in "general terms" but
also strict and unambiguous. I am not even sure if the role and the
results of using category theory were clear enough... But one thing is
sure, SEMACOMP *will* be carried out, one way or the other. There will
be of course small problems but they will be solved. (Or what do we
have this great consortium for? ;-))
Which of course reminds me of Warsaw too. I too am still inclined to
take part despite the denial from the commission. Should we start
organizing that too? Anyway, MIlan, I will be glad to meet you and to
have a good replacement of the meeting in Split. (More about that
later in this message.)
Another new thing that I see in our group is that starting from
November the 1st Google is not going to support file uploads anymore.
So what to do? Keep the same group and send files as email
attachments, or change group? What do you think?
And a big big big "excuse me" to Milan for leaving him completely
uninformed about the possible visit to Split during my vacations.
Milan, I am writing an email to you, telling about my big adventure. I
was so close to Split and then everything went cabloy... :-( I will be
sending it to you tomorrow. I am so sorry about that, really.
Ciao for now, and don't take "No" for an answer.
Cheers!
Nick
P.S.: But the real reason, the very real reason for being hopelessly
devastated is neither the denial of SEMACOMP, nor Google stopping
support of file uploads, nor being unable to visit Milan. It is
that... (sniff!!!) Elena got married, and so I missed the chance for
that clever pretty girl! Drat, drat, and triple drat!!! ;-)
Elena, seriously now, keep well, all happiness and all the best for
the new part of your life that is beginning now! Here's to you and
your husband, cheers!
Oleks
> November the 1st Google is not going to support file uploads anymore.
> So what to do? Keep the same group and send files as email
> attachments, or change group? What do you think?
As an Administrator of http://www.biomedtalk.com/
I will be more than happy to host semantics consortium group at
BioMedTalk.com.
I will create private sub-forum at BioMedTalk.com. After the
registration at BioMedTalk.com
the Members of the semantics consortium will be able to use it.
Please, let me know is this helps.
Oleks
milan
don't take NO for an answer...I like it! :)
No problem Nick. It was just odd for me to see that you are not replying,
but I am glad that you are ok. I hope that everything is good after
adventure and looking forward to hear more about it. And yes..it was Zadar
where we talked about meeting there :) but it's close enough! :)
What we should arrange for Warsaw? Do we need any formal presentation, or it
should be just informal meeting of our consortium with rest of the world? :)
As for the Google groups...I think that we need group upload so definitely
we need some change. BioMedTalk.com is one solution or my proposal would be
to make our domain semacomp.com? If we are (and I believe we are) sure
enough that we can succeed in this project why shouldn't we start out own
group on our own domain? Of course for start we can make some little web
just to have our idea there (not too long) so anyone interested can see what
we are up to...I am not sure if this is often but maybe it's worth it. What
do others think about it?
Cheers,
Milan
-----Original Message-----
From: fp7-semantic...@googlegroups.com
[mailto:fp7-semantic...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of kickniko
Sent: Monday, October 04, 2010 9:56 PM
To: FP7 semantics consortium
Subject: [fp7-semantics-consortium] Re: Sad news from the European
Commission
Grimshaw, Mark
Good to see you so positive about reformulating and resubmitting. The Guid to Applicants has this to say about resubmission:
"Evaluation of a resubmitted proposal: In the case of proposals that have been submitted previously to the
Commission, the moderator gives the experts the previous evaluation summary report (see below) at the consensus
stage. If necessary, the experts will be required to provide a clear justification for their scores and
comments should these differ markedly from those awarded to the earlier proposal."
However, it is not clear if that refers to short proposals or full submissions or both. I think we have to assume it's both and it does mean we will need to be very attentive to dealing with the evaluator's comments.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: fp7-semantic...@googlegroups.com on behalf of kickniko
Sent: Mon 04/10/2010 20:55
To: FP7 semantics consortium
Ken Currie
If you believe in the idea then never give up. Look up Robert the Bruce on Wikipedia.
Would be very easy to get the semacomp.com domain and put up a Joomla site for the group. Happy to do so if no one else does.
Ken
Guest, Elizabeth (INN)
I am very pleased to be part of a consortium that does not give up easily. It bodes very well for the future.
I think a SEMACOMP website is a brilliant idea. It will help get our ideas out while at the same time allowing a private group discussion.
Ken, I am happy for you to go ahead and organise the website.
Elizabeth
| To view the terms under which this email is distributed, please go to http://disclaimer.leedsmet.ac.uk/email.htm |
milan
Dear All,
I have suggested new domain because it will give some more serious touch to whole project.
Ken, should we do it together. I mean…I am (Ofir) the leader of WP2 which includes project web site so… :) Do you think Joomla is necessary for now?
What do others say about semacomp.com??
Cheers,
Milan
Ken Currie
Milan
Please do create the web site. I mentioned Joomla (or Drupal, or ???) as they make the creation of a site fairly easy. Perhaps as WP2 leader you should take this on. I offered to do it if no one else wanted to.
Ken
milan
Ok Ken. No problem.
Let's see what will others say. Maybe we can arrange some little site soon or at least host a domain and set up new (and more serious) group…
Cheers,
Milan
Grimshaw, Mark
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: fp7-semantic...@googlegroups.com on behalf of milan
Sent: Tue 05/10/2010 21:37
To: fp7-semantic...@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [fp7-semantics-consortium] the European Commission say 'non'
Ok Ken. No problem.
Let's see what will others say. Maybe we can arrange some little site soon
or at least host a domain and set up new (and more serious) group.
Cheers,
Milan
From: fp7-semantic...@googlegroups.com
[mailto:fp7-semantic...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Ken Currie
Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 10:28 PM
To: fp7-semantic...@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [fp7-semantics-consortium] the European Commission say 'non'
Milan
Please do create the web site. I mentioned Joomla (or Drupal, or ???) as
they make the creation of a site fairly easy. Perhaps as WP2 leader you
should take this on. I offered to do it if no one else wanted to.
Ken
From: fp7-semantic...@googlegroups.com
[mailto:fp7-semantic...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of milan
Sent: 05 October 2010 21:25
To: fp7-semantic...@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [fp7-semantics-consortium] the European Commission say 'non'
Dear All,
I have suggested new domain because it will give some more serious touch to
whole project.
Ken, should we do it together. I mean.I am (Ofir) the leader of WP2 which
includes project web site so. :) Do you think Joomla is necessary for now?
What do others say about semacomp.com??
Cheers,
Milan
From: fp7-semantic...@googlegroups.com
[mailto:fp7-semantic...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Guest,
Elizabeth (INN)
Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 2:50 PM
To: fp7-semantic...@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [fp7-semantics-consortium] the European Commission say 'non'
I am very pleased to be part of a consortium that does not give up easily.
It bodes very well for the future.
I think a SEMACOMP website is a brilliant idea. It will help get our ideas
out while at the same time allowing a private group discussion.
Ken, I am happy for you to go ahead and organise the website.
Elizabeth
_____
From: fp7-semantic...@googlegroups.com
Guest, Elizabeth (INN)
We might not need Joomla or Drupal straight away, but as we hope to get funding and to expand the website in the future we may as well start with one of these rather than port everything later.
Milan, if you want to look after the website, then go ahead.
Elizabeth
From: fp7-semantic...@googlegroups.com [mailto:fp7-semantic...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of milan
Sent: 05 October 2010 21:25
Agata Filipowska
Maybe implementing a Wiki instead of Joomla or Drupal would be a good idea? We could then upload files, but also work on the proposal in a really straightforward way.
In any case – having a domain would be nice. I may also offer to create a workspace at our wiki (at PUE).
Agata
--
Department of Information Systems
Poznan University of Economics
Guest, Elizabeth (INN)
I was hoping that a wiki can be included in a Joomla or Drupal site. If they are not actually included, bolting on should not be hard.
Elizabeth
Nina van der Vaart
So many options!! Whatever will be the final decision (Joomla, Drupal, Wiki, etc) let me know if I can help.
Congratulations on your upcoming wedding Elena, I am sure Nick will get over it!
Nina
Elena Zamsa
Thank you for your congrats! feeling like our group remains as before strong and friendly!!!!!!!
I like the idea with the web-site, i can help also. My team uses Drupal CMS for web sites.
Starting next week i can help with it, Milan.
I like the comments, at least we know what we should correct.
BTW about re-submitting there is a rule - i am not sure how much official it is...i will check.
All projects can be reformulated and re-submitted again. I'll check!!!
I'll come to Warsaw for brockerage event under IDeal-ist project - i think this is the best posssibility to meet. They offer space and support in Fp7. I am one of the experts from Ideal-ist project.
http://www.ideal-ist.net/events/echallenge2010/
I'll keep you informed next days or may be on monday.
Regards,
Elena
milan
Hy to all!!
I am glad that you all agree on new domain for our project. I'll set it up next week for sure and 'till then decide which CMS (or just „regular“ web site for now with some add ins for group mailing) to use. I have checked for this, http://info.tiki.org/HomePage
Tiki Wiki CMS groupware - It's some kind of collaborative tool which might be interesting for project development. Does anybody have some experience in using it?
@Elena – Ideal-ist project is somehow connected with WINS-ICT (http://www.wins-ict.eu/networking_and_brokerage.html)? I am coming over wins ict project so I’ll be on that brokerage event for sure :)
Regards,
Milan
kickniko
I am so glad to see the spirits standing united and full of enthusiasm
despite that negative result of our first proposal! Actually I was a
bit afraid that you would be disappointed, but as I see... No, our
guys are tough! Great!
So, I guess we all still want to get into our project, perhaps even
more than before. Which boils into the organisational questions about
a re-submission. I will have a phone with the commission tomorrow, and
I will ask directly about the conditions and rules (if any) that we
have to follow. Of course the next thing will be to inform you about
any info I will get.
But I also think already that it is quite possible to re-submit the
project proposal with the imrovements that follow from the critiques
we received. I think also that exactly these critiques might prove to
be the best that could happen in order to let us think a bit about the
way that we explain/present our projected work and targets to people
that have perhaps less knowledge and understanding in such subjects.
This can be very important in the long run, since making the novelty /
risks / methodology more transparent would also make our project more
attractive to many people - and of course it is always a good thing to
have many people interested for what we do, instead of having many
people who think of it as "purely" academical. I am the last who would
call our project "purely academical" since all "purely academical"
projects proved to be the best practical possibilities for the future,
but you all surely know that many times it takes not only expertise
but also work for convincing through easily understandable arguments,
no matter how hard it is to explain all that with.... a few words in
general terms.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gV67Sj2jkVg :-D
BTW, what Jacobi so delightfully describes using "a few words in
general terms" (;-)) is exactly what many would identify with the
reason why our projected system could never do something good - but
this is wrong. The potential that is born out of:
(Contradiction or Incompleteness) a Undecidability (call it CIU)
is in fact *the* generator of a plethora of intrepretations, meanings,
understandings, justifications, judgments, prejudgements, bias,
cognition, recognition, verdict, etc, etc. Just chose your axioms and
logic (=prejudgement???) and build up your universe. In other words:
human thought. (Actually mathematics is doing that since ever, but we
noticed that first some 100 years ago ;-)) So instead of looking for
some system that "produces the one and only understanding of meaning",
which is definitely impossible exactly *because* of the incompleteness
theorem and the undecidability theorem, we go the other way around. We
look for a system that accepts the "shortcomings" of CIU and generates
mechanically exactly that plethora of intrepretations, , etc.,
avoiding the principal mistake of hoping to convince the machine of
something, of which we already know that it cannot be mechanically
exactly defined. It is exactly this, that distinguishes our project.
I still think about how this could be made transparent with a few
words in general terms.... I think it would meet many of the
requierments for our proposal. Anyway, it must be possible to do that,
and if it isn´t I will make it possible, the darn thing! ;-) And all
that in 5 pages... Sigh! ;-)
But now for something completely different. I am also very inclined
tooward semacomp.com or even better semacomp.org (?). I already
started a prototype using FileMaker, since it allows to design a DB by
using the mouse and it serves it exactly the way you have "painted" it
to the web. (No further development needed.) So, then the user can
simply type some text in some input box on a web page, which is
actually nothing else than a field in the previosuly defined DB. And
all other users can see that formatted as they like, and do something
like responding etc. And, just as an example, the fields can be even
files, pictures, whatever. I think that by the end of the week I will
have a prototype. Bad thing is that (for the time being) I do not have
a domain here at home and my provider uses DHCP, which means that my
IP can change without a warning. But up to now I have tested similar
prototypes very often and the IP remained stable for days, even after
several reboots. If the funtionality meets our needs, I could apply
for a domain name so that we have our semacomp site. (BTW, this might
also be my own bias towards the more "straight" approaches using only
"good old SQL" and similar anachronistic things. ;-) I am more into
the backend, you see, where the people still try to save even a single
byte. ;-))
OK, enough for today and excuse my lengthy message. Thank you all for
the continuing enthusiasm and have a good night!
Cheers!
Nick
P.S.: Nina, I got over it! Really, I did so! That was easy! And that
was... when I saw your photograph! :-D
P.P.S.: Oh no, no, please no, why do you lift that refrigerator over
my head? Aaaaaaaahhh! *-S
kickniko
milan
well Nick, that was "a few words in general terms" for sure. :)
After reading your mail, there is absolutely nothing to add except to ask:
where to help?!
Regarding to domain...maybe semacomp.org is better or what do you think
about semacomp.eu?
However I think that there is no point to deal with dynamic IP's of your
ISP. If we can agree on that I'll register domain on Monday on hosting
service which Ofir works with. We can check it for a start, if needed later
we can easily switch it to somewhere else.
Hmmm...after reading Nick's huge email there isn't much to do except to grab
a lunch :)
cheers!
Milan
-----Original Message-----
From: fp7-semantic...@googlegroups.com
[mailto:fp7-semantic...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of kickniko
Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2010 1:24 AM
To: FP7 semantics consortium
Guest, Elizabeth (INN)
I think I know how to massage some semantics stuff into the consiousness
call, but unfortunately it does not include all EU countries. Would
anyone be interested in trying for something?
Elizabeth
Grimshaw, Mark
Mark
kickniko
the idea, Elizabeth!
I will have to get this possibility in the general frame of our
proposal/project. There is too much going on in the last two weeks,
and I just try to determine possible pros and contras of all the
interdepending factors that may influence our proposal.
I will be presenting all that in the newsletter in some minutes.
Cheers,
Nick