Fwd: Masts/Ship2 fix

[Joel DuBray]

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Jessie Richards <jessiev...@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, Mar 28, 2014 at 2:47 PM
Subject: Masts/Ship2 fix
To: Joel DuBray <joeld...@gmail.com>

Hi Joel,

I'm working on the masts/ship2 re-do, and I hadn't realized how much of the "lunar" ship you guys actually used!  I was able to find this image to reference what I'm trying to take it away from:

So it looks like you guys took everything.  I had assumed that the hatch, helm-wheel, staircases, and cannon bays were done by you guys.  

I'm working on getting the ship's base, edges, front bit, and helm area all re-done to look less like the above image.  I feel like $100 isn't enough for five masts, the entire ship, AND extra things like the cannon bays and helm-steering wheel.

How would you feel about $150 for the agreed upon artwork, as well as a two helm-wheel designs, two hatch designs, a new stairs design, and the edited cannon bays?  (Plus all the extra little things I need to do to this ship to keep it from being a potential legal issue.

Here is how it's looking so far:

It's a bit of a mess.  The stairs I replaced with my own ladders from the Slaver, but I'll need to design some stairs at some point because they're all getting ladders so far.  The hatch obviously has the world's greatest design implemented.  haha.  

I think a dark purple/grayish motif makes the purple/green colour palette pretty much forgotten.

I had to remove the weird lines that were going around the outside of the hull.  I know they were nice, but they were very obviously that ship, and hard to change.

The front I'm trying to get a bit more of a modern design, right now it is kind of crazy.

The helm at the back needs more tweaking as the shape is still very much reminiscent of the lunar ship.

I took the cannon bays that I had edited for the red-edged ship and edited them more for this one.

As you can see it still looks pretty similar to the other ship, because I'm trying to somewhat keep the shape.  I think the canon bays need a new shape.

Tell me what you think!

--

- Jessie V. Richards

[Joel DuBray]

So I'm going to cut Jessie loose. That email is ridiculous. I've composed an email below. I'm trying to be nice, but that extortion is ridiculous, and her work quality isn't worth it.

Thoughts?

Hi Jessie,

I sent you that image from Lunar on 11/6/13 in the thread called more updates. We have been consistently open about using Lunar as our style guide, and once again: We have no intentions of publishing another artists work for profit. The reason these sprite repositories exist is for hobbyists like us to play with and build prototypes. Just as you assumed the helm/hatch/cannon bays were done by us, I had assumed you had recolored them for the second ship. I did not check closely. That is my mistake for not double checking. 

Furthermore, I had a chance to check the 32x32 grid system(https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1eDBMn97VQDF3SKURBGjslLeM7GQjomBrRVuDkE1AbG0/edit#slide=id.p). I am severely disappointed at the use of playable space. Half of your work is unuseable. This will take weeks of work to revise. I should have been checking these as you sent me updates. That is also my mistake.

At this point, I would like you to send me an invoice for the merchant ship, the sea tiles. The masts/paintovers you can keep as your own. I have no interest in paying a days wages for a paint over that took less than an hour. We have decided to stop all environment art production until we figure out current issues. 

Best wishes,

Joel

[Stephen Domenici]

That was one of the most ridiculous things I've ever read. I think you've got everything covered in your email.

"I can't believe you guys copied all this shit that I'm copying."

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[Joseph Domenici]

Sounds like a reasonable reply to an unreasonable situation.

We should spend some time during our meeting tomorrow double-checking the grids though, just to make sure that we're absolutely correct about them being off.

[Joel DuBray]

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Jessie Richards <jessiev...@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, Mar 31, 2014 at 8:48 AM
Subject: Re: Masts/Ship2 fix
To: Joel DuBray <joeld...@gmail.com>

Hi Joel,

I'm so sorry about this confusion around the lunar ship,  I was only worried about your game's best interests.  And I also would like to apologize if I crossed a line asking for more money,  I am still trying to figure out how exactly to charge for my artwork, as well as when to charge.

As for the 32x32 grid issues, I would be happy to fix the affected ships for free as that was my mistake.

I still need to render out the edge of the Sambuk's below deck room and I will get you the .psd and the invoice asap.

Again, I am very sorry and I hope we can at least end our working together on good terms.

- Jessie

On Sun, Mar 30, 2014 at 4:44 PM, Joel DuBray <joeld...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Jessie,

I sent you that image from Lunar on 11/6/13 in the thread called 'more updates.' We have been consistently open about using Lunar as our style guide, and once again: We have no intentions of publishing another artists work for profit. The reason these sprite repositories exist is for hobbyists like us to play with and build prototypes. Just as you assumed the helm/hatch/cannon bays were done by us, I had assumed you had recolored them for the second ship. I did not check closely. That is my mistake for not double checking. 

Furthermore, I had a chance to check the 32x32 grid system(https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1eDBMn97VQDF3SKURBGjslLeM7GQjomBrRVuDkE1AbG0/edit#slide=id.p). I am severely disappointed at the use of playable space. Half of the ships are unusable. This will take weeks of work to revise. I should have been checking these as you sent me updates. That is also my mistake.

At this point, I would like you to send me an invoice for the merchant ship, the ocean tiles. The masts/paintovers you can keep as your own. I have no interest in paying a days wages for a paint over that should take less than an hour. We have decided to stop all environment art production until further notice.

Best wishes,

Joel

On Fri, Mar 28, 2014 at 2:47 PM, Jessie Richards <jessiev...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Joel,

I'm working on the masts/ship2 re-do, and I hadn't realized how much of the "lunar" ship you guys actually used!  I was able to find this image to reference what I'm trying to take it away from:

So it looks like you guys took everything.  I had assumed that the hatch, helm-wheel, staircases, and cannon bays were done by you guys.  

I'm working on getting the ship's base, edges, front bit, and helm area all re-done to look less like the above image.  I feel like $100 isn't enough for five masts, the entire ship, AND extra things like the cannon bays and helm-steering wheel.

How would you feel about $150 for the agreed upon artwork, as well as a two helm-wheel designs, two hatch designs, a new stairs design, and the edited cannon bays?  (Plus all the extra little things I need to do to this ship to keep it from being a potential legal issue.

Here is how it's looking so far:

It's a bit of a mess.  The stairs I replaced with my own ladders from the Slaver, but I'll need to design some stairs at some point because they're all getting ladders so far.  The hatch obviously has the world's greatest design implemented.  haha.  

I think a dark purple/grayish motif makes the purple/green colour palette pretty much forgotten.

I had to remove the weird lines that were going around the outside of the hull.  I know they were nice, but they were very obviously that ship, and hard to change.

The front I'm trying to get a bit more of a modern design, right now it is kind of crazy.

The helm at the back needs more tweaking as the shape is still very much reminiscent of the lunar ship.

I took the cannon bays that I had edited for the red-edged ship and edited them more for this one.

As you can see it still looks pretty similar to the other ship, because I'm trying to somewhat keep the shape.  I think the canon bays need a new shape.

Tell me what you think!

--

- Jessie V. Richards

--

- Jessie V. Richards

[Joel DuBray]

Hi Jessie,

I appreciate your concern, and respect your attempts at charging more. We're halting environment art because we are focusing on a web build and a polished prototype. Your timing in broaching new work was just unfortunate. 

I do have some friendly advice. I've only worked with art contractors for two years on a company scale, and one year on an individual scale, but I have learned some things to avoid: Try not start new projects without the customers approval. If you do need to mockup work to pitch a project/revision/fix, try to keep price negotiations in a separate conversation. When you combine the two, it feels ambushing and even dare I say... like extortion? 

I've worked with a lot of landed artiste's and renowned studios who don't take feedback, ignore speccs, or try to tell me what I need. Thankfully you aren't one of those people. You're receptive, hard-working, and talented. Once you build a portfolio of shipped titles, I have every confidence that your prices will practically raise themselves. 

As far as the tile fixes go, I'll talk to my team on Wednesday, and I'll let you know where we land. I think the revisions for our polished prototype may just be handled in house. Thanks for the invoice and the .psd. 

cheers,

Joel