accidental universe vs intentional god

[darngi...@gmail.com]

heres a question for discussion: does god create or try to create the
illusion of an accidental universe?

discuss . . .

[Laurie Little]

here are my thoughts...  I think that satan is powerful, very powerful, and he is able to put thoughts in our heads that we believe to be truth even when the facts laid out before us show otherwise.  That was shown with Eve...she heard God and yet when satan spoke, he was able to void out God's truth in her mind and replace it with lies. 

 

Of the many things i have read about the creation of the universe, including the I dont have enough faith to be an athiest book (lil plug!), the signs are VERY clear that there is more reasonable doubt on the side of those who believe in an accidental universe than there is for those who believe in a deity-created universe.  You really do have to have more faith to believe that the universe exists because of an explosion billions of years ago, that all of these varying creatures developed out of a mutation and multiplying of cells, etc., than to believe in a Divine creator.

 

Bottom line, i think that God gave us obvious signs that this is no accidental universe.  However, I think that no matter what, satan would (and does) find clever ways to use what God created to raise doubt in our minds.  That's what he does.  Satan's the ultimate manipulator.  And i believe that the proposition of an accidental universe stems from that. 

 

be well everyone!

 

~laurie

"darngi...@gmail.com" <darngi...@gmail.com> wrote:

---

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[chris gillespie]

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: chris gillespie <cwgil...@gmail.com>
Date: Nov 16, 2006 6:27 PM
Subject: Re: accidental universe vs intentional god
To: Laurie Little <lauren...@yahoo.com>
Cc: Forgiven NYC < Forgiv...@googlegroups.com>

i suppose i should clarify. . .creation is only one aspect of an accidental universe. what i mean is, what is(are) the mechanism(s) by which god interacts with his creation on a day to day basis. we (as christians) attribute a lot of things to god (thank god i just barely made it to church before the rain started, because i didnt have my umbrella) but we also do not attribute things to god (for example, i was totally soaked before i made it home). There is no apparent pattern by which we choose to thank or blame god, it is awfully arbitrary. It would be folly to take the average christian's divine attributions as substantive evidence in the search for this(these) mechanisms, but what else do we have then?

this is really what i was trying to flesh out with that question. i was assuming a created universe.

-c

[Dan Gillespie]

NO CREATION IS WRONG!!!! ...hehe, just kidding.

Seriously though, if you look at the old testament God directly interacts
with their universe on a daily basis. Even in the New Testament when
Annanias and Saphira (sp?) lied about how much they sold their house for
it says God struck them dead. I think the concept that things happen for
accidental reasons is a newer construct than the idea that they happen
because of divine will.

It's really a rennaisance idea that the entire world is a big clock that
God winds up and then watches it tick. The idea that if he reaches down
and changes something it's a miricle or some sort of special divine
intervention. As I understand it, previous to this everone just always
assumed that everything happened because God willed it.

Not to say one or either idea is correct, just trying to add some
perspective to the conversation.

Dan

> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: chris gillespie <cwgil...@gmail.com>
> Date: Nov 16, 2006 6:27 PM
> Subject: Re: accidental universe vs intentional god
> To: Laurie Little <lauren...@yahoo.com>
> Cc: Forgiven NYC <Forgiv...@googlegroups.com>
>
> i suppose i should clarify. . .creation is only one aspect of an
> accidental
> universe. what i mean is, what is(are) the mechanism(s) by which god
> interacts with his creation on a day to day basis. we (as christians)
> attribute a lot of things to god (thank god i just barely made it to
> church
> before the rain started, because i didnt have my umbrella) but we also do
> not attribute things to god (for example, i was totally soaked before i
> made
> it home). There is no apparent pattern by which we choose to thank or
> blame
> god, it is awfully arbitrary. It would be folly to take the average
> christian's divine attributions as substantive evidence in the search for
> this(these) mechanisms, but what else do we have then?
>
> this is really what i was trying to flesh out with that question. i was
> assuming a created universe.
>
> -c
>
> On 11/16/06, Laurie Little < lauren...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>

>> here are my thoughts... I think that satan is powerful, *very
>> *powerful,

>> and he is able to put thoughts in our heads that we believe to be truth
>> even
>> when the facts laid out before us show otherwise. That was shown with
>> Eve...she heard God and yet when satan spoke, he was able to void out
>> God's
>> truth in her mind and replace it with lies.
>>
>> Of the many things i have read about the creation of the universe,

>> including the *I dont have enough faith to be an athiest* book (lil

>> plug!), the signs are VERY clear that there is more reasonable doubt on
>> the
>> side of those who believe in an accidental universe than there is for
>> those

>> who believe in a deity-created universe. You really *do* have to have

>> more faith to believe that the universe exists because of an explosion
>> billions of years ago, that all of these varying creatures developed out
>> of
>> a mutation and multiplying of cells, etc., than to believe in a Divine
>> creator.
>>

>> Bottom line, i think that God gave us *obvious* signs that this is no

>> accidental universe. However, I think that no matter what, satan would
>> (and
>> does) find clever ways to use what God created to raise doubt in our
>> minds.
>> That's what he does. Satan's the ultimate manipulator. And i believe
>> that
>> the proposition of an accidental universe stems from that.
>>
>> be well everyone!
>>
>> ~laurie
>>

>> *" darngi...@gmail.com" <darngi...@gmail.com>* wrote:
>>
>>
>> heres a question for discussion: does god create or try to create the
>> illusion of an accidental universe?
>>
>>
>> discuss . . .
>>
>>
>> >
>>
>>
>>

>> "Security is not found in the absence of danger, but in the presence of
>> Jesus."
>>
>> ------------------------------

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>
>
> >