Notice of Club Event
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ACM Co-Chair
May 2, 2010, 3:27:26 AM5/2/10
to Foothill ACM
On May 5, 2010, at 2pm, there will be a club meeting in the Toyon
room. This meeting was originally intended to be a club meeting with
student presentations. However, a number of things have occurred in
the past two weeks that warrants a different direction. I would
appreciate people letting me know how may people will show up, so that
I can order food. I was thinking of ordering Subway sandwiches.
However, if Ellen is able to pickup salad, that would help out also.
For those of you who have been following the events of our club, about
two weeks ago, Patrick Shulman advised me on two occasions that he
wished to resign. I am not totally certain as to his reason, but he
did indicate that he discussed his duties with Sirisha Pingali, club
accounting. This to is a mystery to me since duties of the position
are determined by the club and not the schools accounting department.
Although the school has regulations concerning paperwork accounting,
the goals of officer positions, including the treasurer are set by the
club.
A couple of days later, Patrick broadcast correspondence from the
officer list to a number of people, including the dean of the
Computing, dean of student activities, people who were not paid ACM
members, and just about anyone else. Again I am not sure as to his
reason for this. I have consulted with our ACM sponsor and she
indicates that this usually occurs when people are not listened to.
However, I am at a loss as to what more I could have done that would
have helped. I tried to explain what the Treasurer position is, and
that didn't work.
After this set of events, Patrick and other officers scheduled a
series of meeting at times that I had class. In all instances they
were aware that I had class, but they elected to do it anyway. I am
ok with that, but have some concerns on the reality of what was
discussed. First of all the correspondence from the officer's list
has and always had been open to all students. However, it was not
intended to be open to faculty or staff. For those of you who have
taken the time to look at the postings, one of the first postings
after the list was created was a promise by myself not to make the
list searchable without the full permission of everyone on the list.
Apparently Patrick felt that he could go ahead and publish that
anyway. I don't see what benefit there is in this.
I have received a number of message from Ellen relating to club
details that I don't agree with and I have outlined them below:
1) This list is does not have to be for events and can be used for
officer discussions,
2) All officers do not need to be paid ACM members,
3) Prohibition against discussing club business online.
Foothill policy has never stated that students can't discuss club
activities online. This issue has been visited several times before
and the Google Groups logs reflects this. There is no prohibition
against discussing club business online whatsoever. However,
decisions regarding using school funds need to be discussed in
person. That doesn't mean they can be initialized online, but they
need to be voted on in person. This also doesn't mean that use of
funds that are not from Foothill can be discussed online. There is no
state law that requires student clubs to share information with non-
students -- including faculty or staff.
Over a week ago, I discussed my concerns with Pat Hyland, Dean of
STudent Activities and after much reflection believe that the best
thing that could happen would be to split into two different groups.
I propose the following agenda for our May 5, 2010 meeting:
1) Vote on whether the club should change its name. Since some
officers have decided that non-paid members can become officers, this
club doesn't have any standing to continue to use ACM in its name.
ACM needs to be removed from this chapter name.
If a new club is started, the following will happen. There will be a
new list set up just for the following:
1) Events,
2) Jobs,
3) Club Officers.
In addition, there will be new club elections. Creating separate list
will eliminate the email burden that people are putting up with. From
my perspective, I don't wish to continue to be part of this chapter
and for the following reasons.
1) I don't want an adviser who tells me that I need counseling when I
object to Patrick sharing student correspondence with faculty. Elaine
Haight actually told me I need counseling. Life is to short to have
to put up with this.
2) I don't want a chapter officer who schedules business meetings
intentionally at times that I have class,
3) I don't want to be associated with club officers who instigate or
agitate trouble with faculty and staff,
4) I don't want to be involved with people who will allow non-paid
ACM to be chapter officers,
5) I don't want people using this mailing list for non-club events
(business issues, jobs, etc). People receive too much email as it is.
Plain and simply I am not compatible with the agenda that has been
thrown at me. As some of you are aware, I started this club. In spite
of the problems that occurred, I don't at all regret bringing on other
officers -- even if I don't agree with them. However, I do encourage
all officers to meet with or emulate other ACM chapters outside of our
school so that you get a perspective on how to run a chapter and what
rules and regulations are allowed. I think if other officers took a
look at UC Berkeley, Stanford, or a myriad of other chapters, you
would find that they conduct their business very differently. All
other ACM chapters are allowed to do their business online.
I would have liked the May 5, 2010 meeting to be a club meeting with
student presentations, but we probably won't have time. So lets vote
to split the club on May 5, 2010, so that those who don't agree with
my goals and objectives can have their own club. From my perspective,
I don't really need school funding. It is nice if it is available,
but it is a lot less trouble for me to have industry fund our
luncheons and events.
Randal South
room. This meeting was originally intended to be a club meeting with
student presentations. However, a number of things have occurred in
the past two weeks that warrants a different direction. I would
appreciate people letting me know how may people will show up, so that
I can order food. I was thinking of ordering Subway sandwiches.
However, if Ellen is able to pickup salad, that would help out also.
For those of you who have been following the events of our club, about
two weeks ago, Patrick Shulman advised me on two occasions that he
wished to resign. I am not totally certain as to his reason, but he
did indicate that he discussed his duties with Sirisha Pingali, club
accounting. This to is a mystery to me since duties of the position
are determined by the club and not the schools accounting department.
Although the school has regulations concerning paperwork accounting,
the goals of officer positions, including the treasurer are set by the
club.
A couple of days later, Patrick broadcast correspondence from the
officer list to a number of people, including the dean of the
Computing, dean of student activities, people who were not paid ACM
members, and just about anyone else. Again I am not sure as to his
reason for this. I have consulted with our ACM sponsor and she
indicates that this usually occurs when people are not listened to.
However, I am at a loss as to what more I could have done that would
have helped. I tried to explain what the Treasurer position is, and
that didn't work.
After this set of events, Patrick and other officers scheduled a
series of meeting at times that I had class. In all instances they
were aware that I had class, but they elected to do it anyway. I am
ok with that, but have some concerns on the reality of what was
discussed. First of all the correspondence from the officer's list
has and always had been open to all students. However, it was not
intended to be open to faculty or staff. For those of you who have
taken the time to look at the postings, one of the first postings
after the list was created was a promise by myself not to make the
list searchable without the full permission of everyone on the list.
Apparently Patrick felt that he could go ahead and publish that
anyway. I don't see what benefit there is in this.
I have received a number of message from Ellen relating to club
details that I don't agree with and I have outlined them below:
1) This list is does not have to be for events and can be used for
officer discussions,
2) All officers do not need to be paid ACM members,
3) Prohibition against discussing club business online.
Foothill policy has never stated that students can't discuss club
activities online. This issue has been visited several times before
and the Google Groups logs reflects this. There is no prohibition
against discussing club business online whatsoever. However,
decisions regarding using school funds need to be discussed in
person. That doesn't mean they can be initialized online, but they
need to be voted on in person. This also doesn't mean that use of
funds that are not from Foothill can be discussed online. There is no
state law that requires student clubs to share information with non-
students -- including faculty or staff.
Over a week ago, I discussed my concerns with Pat Hyland, Dean of
STudent Activities and after much reflection believe that the best
thing that could happen would be to split into two different groups.
I propose the following agenda for our May 5, 2010 meeting:
1) Vote on whether the club should change its name. Since some
officers have decided that non-paid members can become officers, this
club doesn't have any standing to continue to use ACM in its name.
ACM needs to be removed from this chapter name.
If a new club is started, the following will happen. There will be a
new list set up just for the following:
1) Events,
2) Jobs,
3) Club Officers.
In addition, there will be new club elections. Creating separate list
will eliminate the email burden that people are putting up with. From
my perspective, I don't wish to continue to be part of this chapter
and for the following reasons.
1) I don't want an adviser who tells me that I need counseling when I
object to Patrick sharing student correspondence with faculty. Elaine
Haight actually told me I need counseling. Life is to short to have
to put up with this.
2) I don't want a chapter officer who schedules business meetings
intentionally at times that I have class,
3) I don't want to be associated with club officers who instigate or
agitate trouble with faculty and staff,
4) I don't want to be involved with people who will allow non-paid
ACM to be chapter officers,
5) I don't want people using this mailing list for non-club events
(business issues, jobs, etc). People receive too much email as it is.
Plain and simply I am not compatible with the agenda that has been
thrown at me. As some of you are aware, I started this club. In spite
of the problems that occurred, I don't at all regret bringing on other
officers -- even if I don't agree with them. However, I do encourage
all officers to meet with or emulate other ACM chapters outside of our
school so that you get a perspective on how to run a chapter and what
rules and regulations are allowed. I think if other officers took a
look at UC Berkeley, Stanford, or a myriad of other chapters, you
would find that they conduct their business very differently. All
other ACM chapters are allowed to do their business online.
I would have liked the May 5, 2010 meeting to be a club meeting with
student presentations, but we probably won't have time. So lets vote
to split the club on May 5, 2010, so that those who don't agree with
my goals and objectives can have their own club. From my perspective,
I don't really need school funding. It is nice if it is available,
but it is a lot less trouble for me to have industry fund our
luncheons and events.
Randal South
Patrick Shulman
May 2, 2010, 11:53:07 AM5/2/10
to foothi...@googlegroups.com, haight...@foothill.edu, olsen...@fhda.edu
Dear all,
I won't be able to attend the (5/5) event due to my having a doctor's appointment at the same time. I do not intend to resign at this time. I think things have gone well for the past couple weeks. I think the May 5th event should really reiterate, to those that don't know, the importance of why we decided to deactivate the acm-officers google group as a Foothill ACM forum (re: Brown Act). I am totally open to discussing this in person with an advisor present in order to clarify any misunderstandings. If it is just one member that wants to dissolve the club, then perhaps that member should simply leave the club. Randal South is not the only person who started this club, and it is not up to him alone as to its fate.
Sincerely,
Patrick Shulman
P.S. ---> I INSIST THAT RANDAL SOUTH NEVER AGAIN CALL MY MOM'S HOUSE!
I won't be able to attend the (5/5) event due to my having a doctor's appointment at the same time. I do not intend to resign at this time. I think things have gone well for the past couple weeks. I think the May 5th event should really reiterate, to those that don't know, the importance of why we decided to deactivate the acm-officers google group as a Foothill ACM forum (re: Brown Act). I am totally open to discussing this in person with an advisor present in order to clarify any misunderstandings. If it is just one member that wants to dissolve the club, then perhaps that member should simply leave the club. Randal South is not the only person who started this club, and it is not up to him alone as to its fate.
Sincerely,
Patrick Shulman
P.S. ---> I INSIST THAT RANDAL SOUTH NEVER AGAIN CALL MY MOM'S HOUSE!
ACM Co-Chair
May 2, 2010, 12:15:19 PM5/2/10
to Foothill ACM
I think there is a misunderstanding as to my posting about my last
posting. I am not at all advocating that the club be dissolved, but
instead wish to get some feedback as to the clubs current policies for
non-ACM members becoming officers. If other students feel it is ok
for non-ACM members to become officers, I would suggest the club
change its name to something like Foothill Computer Club.
As the saying goes, "if you can't convince them, confuse them", and no
one has done this better than Patrick. His last message about the
Brown ACT is a little distorted to say the least. The Brown ACT
doesn't require that students share their correspondence with
faculty. It only requires that services be available to all
students. By Patrick taking communications from the officer list and
randomly broadcasting it to the Dean of the Computer Department, Dean
Of Student Activities, and host of others, he has created an elusion
that there is a problem when there isn't. I would have preferred if
Patrick or anyone else would have come and talk with me about some
concerns, but this isn't what happened.
I do recall getting some correspondence from Ellen that suggests there
was interest in non-ACM members becoming officers. I am not at all
opposed to this, but wouldn't it make more sense to change the clubs
name? In any event, discussions like this should be taken up on our
officer list. This list is open to anyone who is a student.
On May 2, 8:53 am, Patrick Shulman <pattsbu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Dear all,
>
> I won't be able to attend the (5/5) event due to my having a doctor's
> appointment at the same time. I do not intend to resign at this time. I
> think things have gone well for the past couple weeks. I think the May 5th
> event should really reiterate, to those that don't know, the importance of
> why we decided to deactivate the acm-officers google group as a Foothill ACM
> forum (re: Brown Act). I am totally open to discussing this in person with
> an advisor present in order to clarify any misunderstandings. If it is just
> one member that wants to dissolve the club, then perhaps that member should
> simply leave the club. Randal South is not the only person who started this
> club, and it is not up to him alone as to its fate.
>
> Sincerely,
> Patrick Shulman
>
> P.S. ---> *I INSIST THAT RANDAL SOUTH NEVER AGAIN CALL MY MOM'S HOUSE!
> *
posting. I am not at all advocating that the club be dissolved, but
instead wish to get some feedback as to the clubs current policies for
non-ACM members becoming officers. If other students feel it is ok
for non-ACM members to become officers, I would suggest the club
change its name to something like Foothill Computer Club.
As the saying goes, "if you can't convince them, confuse them", and no
one has done this better than Patrick. His last message about the
Brown ACT is a little distorted to say the least. The Brown ACT
doesn't require that students share their correspondence with
faculty. It only requires that services be available to all
students. By Patrick taking communications from the officer list and
randomly broadcasting it to the Dean of the Computer Department, Dean
Of Student Activities, and host of others, he has created an elusion
that there is a problem when there isn't. I would have preferred if
Patrick or anyone else would have come and talk with me about some
concerns, but this isn't what happened.
I do recall getting some correspondence from Ellen that suggests there
was interest in non-ACM members becoming officers. I am not at all
opposed to this, but wouldn't it make more sense to change the clubs
name? In any event, discussions like this should be taken up on our
officer list. This list is open to anyone who is a student.
On May 2, 8:53 am, Patrick Shulman <pattsbu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Dear all,
>
> I won't be able to attend the (5/5) event due to my having a doctor's
> appointment at the same time. I do not intend to resign at this time. I
> think things have gone well for the past couple weeks. I think the May 5th
> event should really reiterate, to those that don't know, the importance of
> why we decided to deactivate the acm-officers google group as a Foothill ACM
> forum (re: Brown Act). I am totally open to discussing this in person with
> an advisor present in order to clarify any misunderstandings. If it is just
> one member that wants to dissolve the club, then perhaps that member should
> simply leave the club. Randal South is not the only person who started this
> club, and it is not up to him alone as to its fate.
>
> Sincerely,
> Patrick Shulman
>
> *
Patrick Shulman
May 2, 2010, 12:24:57 PM5/2/10
to foothi...@googlegroups.com
Randal,
Elaine Haight is our Faculty Advisor. I only felt it was fair for her to show how some people talk behind the backs of others. I think that the Faculty Advisor should have access to our discussions in order to act as a moderator with the club's best interest at heart. It also allows us to be on our best behavior and not say anything that we may later regret. I am not trying to confuse anyone, and, if all conversations are well publicized, no confusion should be present. If you are confused, then perhaps you should attend more meetings. I apologize that I cannot attend the May 5th meeting. I trust that you will have a good one!
Sincerely,
-PS
Elaine Haight is our Faculty Advisor. I only felt it was fair for her to show how some people talk behind the backs of others. I think that the Faculty Advisor should have access to our discussions in order to act as a moderator with the club's best interest at heart. It also allows us to be on our best behavior and not say anything that we may later regret. I am not trying to confuse anyone, and, if all conversations are well publicized, no confusion should be present. If you are confused, then perhaps you should attend more meetings. I apologize that I cannot attend the May 5th meeting. I trust that you will have a good one!
Sincerely,
-PS
Randal
May 2, 2010, 12:42:38 PM5/2/10
to foothi...@googlegroups.com
Elaine is only one of
our advisers. In any event, we
can take up some of your concerns at the next meeting. Please use the chat
list or the officer list for these types of discussions. I have had complaints
from people indicating they want separate lists for jobs, events, chat, and
officers. In consideration of the other people on the list, you should
voice your concerns in those forums. Is that reasonable?
Patrick Shulman
May 2, 2010, 12:47:46 PM5/2/10
to foothi...@googlegroups.com
Randal,
If you continue to mention my name in this list, I will respond in this list. Do you understand that? Your concern for others is welcomed by me, but don't mention my name in a list that you don't want me to respond to.
Job list... Great Idea! I'm also working on some great ideas... now let's drop it... ok?
-PS
If you continue to mention my name in this list, I will respond in this list. Do you understand that? Your concern for others is welcomed by me, but don't mention my name in a list that you don't want me to respond to.
Job list... Great Idea! I'm also working on some great ideas... now let's drop it... ok?
-PS
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