Fwd: FW PIC Train-the-Trainer - Awarding Bodies

[Abdul Rashid]

From: Abdul Rashid <abdul....@diversey.com>
Date: 29 November 2010 00:47
Subject: Re: FW PIC Train-the-Trainer - Awarding Bodies
To: Bahaa Elden Mostafa <BEMO...@dm.gov.ae>, foodsaf...@googlegroups.com, Bobby Krishna Thulasi <BKTH...@dm.gov.ae>
Cc: "ad...@alsafwaconsult.com" <ad...@alsafwaconsult.com>, "ranga...@gmail.com" <ranga...@gmail.com>, "bmtrada.me@eim.ae" <bmtrada.me@eim.ae>, "mark...@boecker.com" <mark...@boecker.com>, "a...@boecker.com" <a...@boecker.com>, "ad...@eat-safe.com" <ad...@eat-safe.com>, David Denton <d.de...@cieh.org>, Richard Sprenger <rspr...@highfield.co.uk>, Jason Sprenger <jasons...@highfield.co.uk>, "bss...@emirates.net.ae" <bss...@emirates.net.ae>, "vikas....@dnv.com" <vikas....@dnv.com>, "was...@etaascon.com" <was...@etaascon.com>, "in...@fahssme.com" <in...@fahssme.com>, "drmpa...@gmail.com" <drmpa...@gmail.com>, "abdul....@johnsondiversey.com" <abdul....@johnsondiversey.com>, "da...@mentus.net" <da...@mentus.net>, "in...@mentus.net" <in...@mentus.net>, "ad...@mrsfoodsafety.com" <ad...@mrsfoodsafety.com>, "mrs...@emirates.net.ae" <mrs...@emirates.net.ae>, "masquality...@gmail.com" <masquality...@gmail.com>, "rmkthe...@dubaimediacity.net" <rmkthe...@dubaimediacity.net>, "rafiqa...@dubaimediacity.net" <rafiqa...@dubaimediacity.net>, "s...@emirates.net.ae" <s...@emirates.net.ae>, "svm3...@gmail.com" <svm3...@gmail.com>, "su...@sanbookconsult.com" <su...@sanbookconsult.com>, "Jwamee...@sgs.com" <Jwamee...@sgs.com>, "dency....@sgs.com" <dency....@sgs.com>, "shi...@tuv-nord.com" <shi...@tuv-nord.com>, "Pam...@tuv-nord.com" <Pam...@tuv-nord.com>, "git...@tuv-nord.com" <git...@tuv-nord.com>, "ji...@tuv-nord.com" <ji...@tuv-nord.com>, "da...@taylorshannon.com" <da...@taylorshannon.com>

Dear Dr. Bahaa and fellow Food Safety Professionals,

 

I apologies in advance if I am about to stir up a hornets nest by this email, but I feel someone has to have the courage to take the by bull by the horns and ask the question. I refer to a recent email posted on food safety dubai google group and forwarded officially by Dr. Bahaa from Dubai Municipality Food Control Department.

 

So here goes, what are the criteria laid down by  either Dubai Municipality Food Control Department (DM) and/or Dubai Accredititation Centre (DAC), of compliance for a training company to be given the status of an Awarding Body ? Giving authority to a company to issue 'accredited' training certificates ?

 

My understanding on the subject matter is limited to the requirements of the UK and it is on this model of accreditation that I use to assess whether a training services provider is just another training company or it has met a set of independent criteria and can now call itself an Awarding Body and issue accredited certificates which are recognised across the globe.

 

In the UK the Qualification and Curriculum Development Agency (QCDA) via the Qualifications and Credit Framework oversee the recognition and accreditation of qualifications. In addition there are organisations such as OFQUAL (Office of Qualifications and Examinations Regulation) and Sector Skills Councils who regulate qualifications, examinations and asssessments. I also understand that accreditation to ISO 17024 for an organisation adds considerable weight towards achieving awarding body status.

 

Currently, in the field of food safety and occupational health and safety, UK based institutions such as Chartered Institute of Environmental Health (CIEH) and Highfield Awarding Body for Compliance (HABC) are fully compliant with the criteria set by the above mentioned UK government organisations.

 

Will these awarding bodies which are recognised, not only in the UK but across the globe, given automatic Awarding Body status by DM and/or DAC?

 

My understanding on the PIC program is that at present DM is working closely with Dubai office of HABC (a recognised international awarding body)  in developing the syllabus, training materials and examination question papers. If the PIC program, the syllabus, training materials and examinations are not officially finalised how can another training provider run DM approved PIC programs for trainers ?

 

For such training programs, which syllabus will they be following, which DM approved training materials would be used ? which examination will conclude the training ? Which organisation accredits the qualification that is awarded ?

 

If someone can throw some light and more perhaps important clarity on the names and the current status of awarding bodies which are recognised and approved by DM and/or DAC it would be very helpful for me and perhaps a lot of others in the food industry.

 

Looking forward to be enlightened!

 

Warm regards,

Abdul

 

Abdul Rashid.

Regional Director - Middle East
Diversey Consulting,
P.O Box 61485,
Jebel Ali Free Zone,
Dubai, U.A.E

Mobile No. ++971-55-2241404  
Email: Abdul....@Diversey.com

Office: ++9714-8819470

On 23 November 2010 09:16, Bahaa Elden Mostafa <BEMO...@dm.gov.ae> wrote:

Dear : all

The next TSI's upcoming Train-the-Trainer course at (19th - 20th December)

Dr. Bahaa Elden Mostafa
Food Studies and Planning Section
Food Control Department
Dubai Municipality
Tel. 042064217
Mob.0503779909

-----Original Message-----
From: "Dave Shannon" [mailto:da...@taylorshannon.com]
Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2010 8:06 AM
To: Bahaa Elden Mostafa
Cc: Bobby Krishna Thulasi
Subject: TSI Train-the-Trainer

Dear Dr Bahaa,

Please could you forward me the email you sent on Sunday to the
training companies regarding TSI's upcoming Train-the-Trainer course
(19th - 20th December)?

I would like to follow up with the recipients of the email.

Many thanks,

Dave Shannon
Operations Director - TSI Quality Services
Mobile (UAE): +971 (0)55 606 8615
Mobile (UK): +44 (0)7725 053 216

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[Bobby Krishna Thulasi]

Dear Abdul,

 

We appreciate your interest in protecting the integrity and quality of the PIC program.

 

I just want to inform you and the other members that all awarding bodies need to first get the DAC accreditation before they can issue accredited certificated to trainers as well as the PICs.

Awarding bodies have to be internationally recognised and they have to meet the ISO 17024:2003 standard as well as the DAC requirements that are based on the DM requirements.

 

Both training of trainers and PICs are a part of the scheme assessment and this is the reason why an awarding body has to announce the training before the accreditation process is completed. The accredited qualifications cannot be awarded ( as in providing an accredited certificate) until the accreditation process is completed, but however trainings can be conducted.

 

Any issues related to the accreditation process can be addressed to the DAC through their website.

 

Regards

 

Bobby Krishna T M

Senior Food Studies and Surveys Officer &

Coordinator of Dubai International Food safety Conference

Food Control Department

Dubai Municipality 

Mobile   :           + 971 554041340                                  Office:              +9714 2064211

	Join us for the Sixth Dubai International Food Safety Conference, 27 Feb- 1 March 2011   For Food Safety Updates, follow us in:

 

 

 

---

Subject: Re: FW PIC Train-the-Trainer - Awarding Bodies

 

Dear Dr. Bahaa and fellow Food Safety Professionals,

["Dave Shannon"]

Dear Abdul (and group),

I'd like to clarify the status of TSI Quality Services in Dubai: We are not
a training company. We are a Certification Body and Awarding Institution.
Importantly, the requirements of ISO 17024 place strict limitations on the
training activities permitted for any organisation applying for
accreditation based on the standard, i.e. clear impartiality must be
displayed. Accordingly, training towards TSI PIC qualifications will be
conducted in Dubai by independent training partners.

TSI Quality Services is currently undertaking the DAC accreditation process.
As per Bobby's email, only DAC-approved Awarding Institutions will be
authorised to issue PIC qualifications. Also, as per Bobby's email, initial
PIC train-the-trainer and Pilot business training sessions can be announced
and delivered in advance of accreditation (indeed, DAC observation of such
sessions is required as part of the accreditation process).

Regarding our syllabus, training materials and examination question papers:
any and all materials used for PIC will be reviewed and approved in advance
by Dubai Municipality.

Thanks and regards,

Dave Shannon
Operations Director - TSI Quality Services
Mobile (UAE): +971 (0)55 606 8615

on 28/11/10 8:47 PM, abdul....@diversey.com wrote:

> Dear Dr. Bahaa and fellow Food Safety Professionals,
>
> I apologies in advance if I am about to stir up a hornets nest by this
> email, but I feel someone has to have the courage to take the by bull by
the
> horns and ask the question. I refer to a recent email posted on food
safety
> dubai google group and forwarded officially by Dr. Bahaa from Dubai
> Municipality Food Control Department.
>
> So here goes, what are the criteria laid down by either Dubai
Municipality
> Food Control Department (DM) and/or Dubai Accredititation Centre (DAC), of

> compliance for a training company to be given the status of an *Awarding
> Body ? *Giving authority to a company to issue 'accredited' training

[Abdul Rashid]

Dear Dave, Joanne and the rest of the group members!

 

Thank you for your response to my email. I appreciate your clarification on your organisation being a 'Certification Body and Awarding Institution' and as such the limitations that are placed on your business activities.

 

Although my email was addressing the matter at hand, that of PIC accredited training, the wider issue of accredited food safety qualifications will obviously come into the picture in due course.

 

Joanne, I wholeheartedly agree with your comments that we in the UAE should be moving forward and focussing on developing programs and systems which are more suited to the requirements of the local culture and market needs. Which may be very different to the ones already in place across the globe. You may be aware that I was for 8 years, part of the Leadership Team of Dubai Municipality Food Control Section (as it was then, between 1991-1999), along with Mr. Khalid Shariff the current Director of Food Control Department. The Leadership Team was instrumental in developing and implementing a 5 year Food Safety strategy, which included but not limited to, implementing new regulations, mandating HACCP and training requirements for the food industry with the aim that Dubai would be the leader in Food Safety Standards within the region and eventually across the world! The foundation that was laid at the time, has now been built upon very well by an excellent group of food safety professionals currently within the Food Control Department.

 

The changes that were introduced from the very onset in the 1990's were all focused on developing systems and standards which were suited too and took into account the local culture and the needs of the local food industry, at the same time keeping in mind international food safety standards.

 

My stand remains however, we should not try to 'reinvent the wheel' rather we should take advantage of existing systems, procedures and standards which may exist elsewhere and build on them to ensure they meet all local needs. In this regard, based on 25 years of experience within the food industry having worked both within Local Government/Municipal Authorities as an enforcement officer in two continents and now more recently on the commercial side supporting the food industry through consultancy and training services. The opinion I have developed is that compliance with or accreditation to ISO 17024 alone, is not sufficient for an organisation to be given the status of an Awarding Body responsible for issuing vocational and/or academic qualifications.

 

The issuance of such qualifications needs to be overseen and accredited by a specialist body, comprising of educationalists who have the expertise to assess, for example the syllabi of training programs, methods of training/teaching, recommended teaching time etc.  Such bodies exist across the world overseeing training and education standards ranging from early school years right up to vocational qualifications equivalent to a PhD. An example of such an institution in the UK is OFQUAL. All Awarding bodies issuing accredited food safety training
programs are required to comply with the requirements of OFQUAL, even if they comply with ISO 1704:2005

 

All degrees issued by UK Universities have to be accredited by OFQUAL otherwise they are not recognised as an accredited degree. My point being, if a University cannot issue a recognised/accredited degree unless it complies with OFQUAL requriements. What standards are we trying to set by allowing any organisation to be given Awarding Body status based on its compliance with ISO 17024 alone ?

 

To be given a proper status to both an Awarding Body and the qualification that they issue, I suggest that a body linked to the Ministry of Education needs to be involved. Perhaps at a Federal Level, so that we have equal recognition of qualifications across all Emirates not only in Dubai. That in my opinion would be a step forwad rather than having different systems in place in what is after all one country. This body would work closely with existing entities such as DAC and the Food Control Department and focus only on the matter of qualifications and not on any other issues relating to food safety. 

 

Such a system exists in Oman, where the Ministry of Education is the body which oversees and accredits qualifications. All educational qualifications including food safety need to comply with their requirements they set  standards of syllabus content, teaching time etc. Unless an awarding body complies with their requirements they are not recognised as such, even if they posess ISO 17024 accreditation.

 

To provide an example, in order to ensure consistancy and equality of a qualification is issued by an awarding body or a training institute. They have clearly stipulated criteria a training program are required to meet before a 'certificate' or 'diploma' in food safety is awarded. For a training program leading to an award of a 'diploma' not less than an equivalence of 90 days of training time (this could be accomplished part time, over a period of time eg. one day a week), is one of the requirements. If this is requirement is not met by the program and the program is only for example 3 or 5 days of teaching time, then only a 'certificate' status qualification can be awarded and not a 'diploma'

 

I have just provided two examples one relating to the UK and one relating to Oman, a country in our region. Likewise, the majority of countries around the world let educational specialists assess the standards of educational qualifications that are issued and only accredit qualifications meeting their requirements in addition to any ISO management system requriements.

 

If that is both proven and standard practice across the world then why, do we have to reinvent the wheel and in my opinion, comprise on our standards here in Dubai and only use one criteria ie. compliance with ISO 17024 for assessing whether to give Awarding Body status to any organisation?

 

We have a great opportunity to improve on standards and set a higher benchmark than that which may exist in other parts of the world. So lets take that opportunity and move forward.

 

Warm regards,

Abdul 

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[Khan, Intesar (Dubai)]

Dear Abdul,

 

Thanks for having put forward such an elaborate illustration about the concept of PIC training and precise information about certification, accreditation etc.

As you have rightly said the present pool of qualified and committed food safety professionals here in the emirates have been endeavouring to contribute quite significantly in promoting the message of food safety.

In fact, your mail has taken us almost a couple of decades back which also reminds me of the very first seminar on HACCP conducted by the then head, food control department (Mr, David Rushton) and yourself sometimes during 1991.

I had the previlage of attending that session which was attended by many representatives from food establishments in order to have the basic introduction of HACCP.

I can not forget that memorable day when many of us were not even able to pronounce the strange term HACCP.

As you know well, there has been tremendous effort made by the food control section which has undergone significant transformation since then under the stewardship of Mr. Khalid sharif .

I ca not conclude without naming Mr. Bobby and his colleagues at DM for having formed a marvellous fraternity of food safety professionals which has been receiving applause from across the globe.

 

Best regards,

Intesar Ahmed Khan

Technical Manager (Food)

 

SGS Gulf Limited

Head Office – Middle East Region

SGS Building, Street No. 1243

P.O. Box: 18556, Jebel Ali Free Zone

Dubai - United Arab Emirates

Phone: +971 4 883 22 22

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Fax: +971 4 883 11 61
E-mail: intesa...@sgs.com

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Please consider the environment before printing this mail note.

. 

 

Note: SGS Gulf Ltd takes pride of being the pioneer among all the certification bodies in the UAE to have achieved accreditation from DAC (Dubai Accreditation Centre) for all the five systems ie, HACCP / ISO 22000 / ISO 9001 / ISO 14001 / OHSAS 18001

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

---

From: foodsaf...@googlegroups.com [mailto:foodsaf...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Abdul Rashid
Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2010 12:22 AM
To: "Dave Shannon"; joa...@taylorshannon.com
Cc: abdul....@diversey.com; BEMO...@dm.gov.ae; foodsaf...@googlegroups.com; BKTH...@dm.gov.ae; ad...@alsafwaconsult.com; ranga...@gmail.com; bmtra...@eim.ae; mark...@boecker.com; a...@boecker.com; ad...@eat-safe.com; d.de...@cieh.org; rspr...@highfield.co.uk; jasons...@highfield.co.uk; bss...@emirates.net.ae; vikas....@dnv.com; was...@etaascon.com; in...@fahssme.com; drmpa...@gmail.com; in...@mentus.net; ad...@mrsfoodsafety.com; mrs...@emirates.net.ae; masquality...@gmail.com; rmkthe...@dubaimediacity.net; rafiqa...@dubaimediacity.net; s...@emirates.net.ae; svm3...@gmail.com; su...@sanbookconsult.com; Jwamee...@sgs.com; George, Dency K (Dubai); shi...@tuv-nord.com; Pam...@tuv-nord.com; git...@tuv-nord.com; jji...@tuv-nord.com; Khalid Mohammed Sharif; Asia Abdulwahab Murad; Basheer Hassan Yousif
Subject: Re: {Food Safety Dubai} Re: FW PIC Train-the-Trainer - Awarding Bodies

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