Variation in the volume of beer bottles

[Richard Chivers]

In a drinks bottling plant, we recently had an audit at which the auditor would like us to have checked the volume of product inside the bottle by pouring a few bottles one at a time, into a measuring cylinder We have a beer delivery system calibrated to a national standard, glass bottles that arrive with certificates of conformance against their size specification and we have a calibrated measure for fill level. I wouldn’t have thought that such an additional test was needed but we still got a non-conformance.

It must be almost impossible for bottles not to be the right volume given that they are produced by a standard process but if it occurs, I should know. So I would like to risk assess the chances of bottles not being the right volume then we can either rule in or rule out the necessity for carrying out this check e.g. by finding out the number of non-conforming bottles in every million or whatever.

Does anyone have experience of bottles not containing the correct volume?

Thank you.

Kind regards,

Richard

[John Merritt]

Google BATF standards of fill. Regulations have recently changed for wine.

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From: foodsa...@googlegroups.com <foodsa...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Richard Chivers <richard...@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2019 5:41:30 AM
To: Foodsa...@googlegroups.com <Foodsa...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: [foodsafe-list] Variation in the volume of beer bottles

 

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[mdpr...@aol.com]

Richard

 

Yes sir. I have much experience with analysis, determining and  maintaining legal standards of fill control in alcohol beverage industry. Now retired.

 

It is NOT impossible for bottles to not be the right volume and I'll try to briefly explain. There are many factors to consider. Especially important is the design, production and quality control of the glass containers. Without going into a PhD thesis on glass bottle manufacturing here is a basic truth. Glass manufacturers use molds cast from iron. These molds are machined to a design spec for the specific bottle size. In general, when new the mold makers will make the mold which casts a bottle well on the "tight" side of capacity specs. Reason is obvious: over time the process of making the bottles wears the mold making it larger. Each mold has some identifying code specific to that mold such as a number. In a glass plant each process "shop" has 12 or more molds in works at any one time. These molds are randomly replaced as they "wear out" or have other defects. So, at any one time there are molds producing different capacity glass - though the differences may be "within specs" but we are all human and subject to err. Per usual QC dept's job is to assure, and report, all specs are consistently being met. As the molds wear capacity and other characteristics of the container change. This becomes extremely important in glass used for beverages under high pressure such as sparkling wines and certain others which depend on neck configuration to help retain the sealing stopper. Also have experience as expert witness in law suit over spontaneous expulsion of stoppers but that's another story.

 

The age old conundrum is managements' decisions between optimum quality (consistently meeting or exceeding specs) and optimum production (profit).. My experience -80% of the time 80% of management leans to optimum production with some (hopefully minor) sacrifices of quality. Sometimes comes back to bite them in the patuti. I have owned and operated a successful production plant so I know of what I speak.     

 

Maintaining capacity of beverages in glass also is a critical balance between "headspace" and liquid volume. Obviously at bottling temp the fill level is set - though adjustable - at the filling phase. When temp of liquid in container at time of bottling changes so does the volume in the container even though at the same fill level. Smaller the container, larger the deviation of increase or decrease in fill volume. So bottle design and measurement calculations of volume must take this in consideration. This is the reasons auditors are using standardized container for measuring volume. Caution; depending on this measurement alone is not prudent in production. Maybe obvious but headspace consideration is especially important if product is being transported over high mountain ranges or in uncontrolled temp storage or transport. 

 

There are other technical measures to be considered in writing specs, monitoring, etc. Depending on certificates of conformance is one thing but, IMO, it is still prudent and advisable to make random checks to assure they are being complied with either in your lab or a trusted third party audit. That which gets checked, gets done.

 

Dale Presson

 

 

 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/foodsafe-list/CY4PR1701MB18450A4EECD3D3FF2C76EE44DB5B0%40CY4PR1701MB1845.namprd17.prod.outlook.com.

[GEORGE]

Richard, Dale,

Yes, there are many variables in the systems of aseptically processed foods, and headspace is one of the most critical.

Due to the physical variations associated with glass food containers, product weight/volume must be checked throughout the day with standard measuring devices to assure compliance with formulation and declaration.The data provided is also essential for R&D and new product development.

Cheers!

George DeMirjian




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------ Original Message ------

From: foodsafe google groups
To: johnm...@elainebellcatering.com, richard...@gmail.com, foodsafe google groups
Sent: December 11, 2019 at 11:45 AM
Subject: Re: [foodsafe-list] Variation in the volume of beer bottles

Richard
 
Yes sir. I have much experience with analysis, determining and  maintaining legal standards of fill control in alcohol beverage industry. Now retired.
 
It is NOT impossible for bottles to not be the right volume and I'll try to briefly explain. There are many factors to consider. Especially important is the design, production and quality control of the glass containers. Without going into a PhD thesis on glass bottle manufacturing here is a basic truth. Glass manufacturers use molds cast from iron. These molds are machined to a design spec for the specific bottle size. In general, when new the mold makers will make the mold which casts a bottle well on the "tight" side of capacity specs. Reason is obvious: over time the process of making the bottles wears the mold making it larger. Each mold has some identifying code specific to that mold such as a number. In a glass plant each process "shop" has 12 or more molds in works at any one time. These molds are randomly replaced as they "wear out" or have other defects. So, at any one time there are molds producing different capacity glass - though the differences may be "within specs" but we are all human and subject to err. Per usual QC dept's job is to assure, and report, all specs are consistently being met. As the molds wear capacity and other characteristics of the container change. This becomes extremely important in glass used for beverages under high pressure such as sparkling wines and certain others which depend on neck configuration to help retain the sealing stopper. Also have experience as expert witness in law suit over spontaneous expulsion of stoppers but that's another story.
 
The age old conundrum is managements' decisions between optimum quality (consistently meeting or exceeding specs) and optimum production (profit).. My experience -80% of the time 80% of management leans to optimum production with some (hopefully minor) sacrifices of quality. Sometimes comes back to bite them in the patuti. I have owned and operated a successful production plant so I know of what I speak.     
 
Maintaining capacity of beverages in glass also is a critical balance between "headspace" and liquid volume. Obviously at bottling temp the fill level is set - though adjustable - at the filling phase. When temp of liquid in container at time of bottling changes so does the volume in the container even though at the same fill level. Smaller the container, larger the deviation of increase or decrease in fill volume. So bottle design and measurement calculations of volume must take this in consideration. This is the reasons auditors are using standardized container for measuring volume. Caution; depending on this measurement alone is not prudent in production. Maybe obvious but headspace consideration is especially important if product is being transported over high mountain ranges or in uncontrolled temp storage or transport. 
 
There are other technical measures to be considered in writing specs, monitoring, etc. Depending on certificates of conformance is one thing but, IMO, it is still prudent and advisable to make random checks to assure they are being complied with either in your lab or a trusted third party audit. That which gets checked, gets done.
 
Dale Presson
 
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: John Merritt <johnm...@elainebellcatering.com>
To: Richard Chivers <richard...@gmail.com>; foodsa...@googlegroups.com <foodsa...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Tue, Dec 10, 2019 6:17 am
Subject: Re: [foodsafe-list] Variation in the volume of beer bottles

Google BATF standards of fill. Regulations have recently changed for wine.

Get Outlook for Android

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/foodsafe-list/530044913.7557529.1576002508012%40mail.yahoo.com.