Buffy 4x16

[Irmgard Rossie]

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#someone pointed out in the comments that none of buffy's friends can tell when she's possessed or a robot and wow thats ummm troubling#i vaguely remember buffy herself pointing it out in intervention but yeah#when tara knows immediately from their first meeting that something is off and willow's just like nah that's totally buffy gkhlhfldgk (via @dushku)

My friends and I started watching the eps in order...the newcomers found it disorienting at first, because there is so much switching back and forth, they felt they couldn't get a feel for the Angel cast as a cohesive unit. But now we're all loving it, and it's really fun to play, "wait, what happened last time?" and "oh crap, we were supposed to switch to the other show!"

I tried watching Buffy 4 different times and just do not like her, so I bought Angel and watched all 5 seasons. The problem was I was getting answers to questions I did not have, so had to buy the first 3 seasons of Buffy to get the questions. Does that make sense? Anyway of course by then I was totally in love with Spike so here comes the next 4 seasons and I still do not like Buffy, but think this series is the best thing EVER on TV. I have watched the whole series many times and most of Angel several times. I have 2 sets of both series and one is usually loaned out to newbies, have to get them hooked on my favorite show.

I understand the feeling. I myself have a love/hate relationship with Buffy. Most of the time I love her, sometimes I just wish she would stay dead a bit longer (I know how evil that sounds).

My sister and I are still "converting" people to the Whedonverse but however, we don't lend the DVD'S anymore. We go at our house and watch the whole thing with you, answering your questions and adding our own commentary as a bonus feature.

This is a great list, thanks very much. I'm trying to sort out which episodes come where in season 7 & season 5, we sit around every wednesday (whedonsday) and watch a few eps in order. Thanks to you my task is a lot easier!

After watching (and loving) firefly, i thought i'd pickup the buffy/angel DVDs, I wathced most of buffy 1st 3/4 seasons and angel first 2 seasons back when they aired, forgot how much I loved I them.

Searched online for a viewing order as I knew there were some crossovers....

EAch viewing order is different, is this the right viewing order to watch them so that you get the crossovers in the right order?

I dont mid chaning DVDs as I'll have one in the DVD player and one in the xbox (hm.,.. maybe I can convince the wife to get let get a PS3 then I can have 3 dvds loaded, never have to leave the couch :) )

Gripe about this list from a first-time viewer: Angel Season 1 "Sanctuary" needs to come immediately before Buffy Season 4 "The Yoko Factor", because in the latter B. returns from Los Angeles.

This is the first mistake I've noticed, and now I wonder if there will be others to come. 'Course, I'm complaining a lot for having just picked this up free on the net. But the only other list I've found lamely has spoilers written right on it.

I hear you, Logan, but that is the way the show actually aired.

Now if we change "The Yoko Factor" to come immediately after "Sanctuary", like you suggest... then "Superstar", "Where the Wild Things Are" & "New Moon Rising" will all come before "5X5" so there would still be a long gap. It's just unfortunate that there is 3 Buffy eps in the middle of the crossover.

Still, if you feel strongly about it, we don't mind changing it.

I just started watching Buffy the second time around and was puzzled when I reached the end of season 3. Having the basic knowledge of both of the series I really wanted to get "everything" out of watching them and yet not spoil myself since there are some things I have already forgotten. This list is really going to help me finish my task, thank you very much :)

Personally, I'd prefer it to be in BuffyVerse chronological order, and don't really care about how many Buffys there are in the row, as I just got a bit confused with the 5x5 thing. I think it should have a note or something, if people don't mind too much with the disc-switching. Really great list though. Massive help!

I noticed that the guide states, "at this point you can watch them however you want... as Buffy moved to UPN." Is the guide based on air date or story progression? And does the network switch have a bearing on the content of the shows? Thanks!

ok basically im watching buffy/angel for the first time. i saw all of season 3 of buffy, and now im watching angel/buffy EXACTLY how its posted as of now. so far its excellent and the story hasnt been 'off' at all. infact it 'feels' good the way im watching them. im on the episode after hush on buffy right now. i will update as i watch.

I'm about to start watching Angel (already seen buffy), and was wondering what you meant with 'minimal disc switching', as I have them all on my computer. Does this actually impact anything you've recomended?

Thanks again for an awesome resource!

I'm currently on season 6/3 and just got every buffyverse comic off eBay and it brought a question to my mind...

Any chance of an updated full Buffyverse list? Obviously if people don't have the comics, they can skip them without losing anything from the series, but for the people (like me) who do, itd be nice to have a list where once i go to check off an episode it reminds me i should read a particular comic (i.e. the Death of Buffy comic after "The Gift" or Reunion between Carpe Noctum/Flooded and Life Serial/Fredless)

I know there are alot of non-canonical books and comics, and i'm not asking you to try and place those, just the ones who have been released as official Buffyverse comics (Approved by Joss).

just an idea, figured with your tv list already made, it shouldnt be too hard to add in the comics.

Do you have any idea how the comics fit into the canon? I've seen lists that show the proper viewing order of Angel and Buffy. Do the canonical comics fit in here, as well?

I'm watching through Buffy for the first time, and would like to have the grand sweep of the whole 'verse.

Not sure if I'm going to het a response cause this threadh seems a little inactive but I too have the question (that didn't get answered) about the UPN switch. Will the story still make sense watching it in fours? Should the network affect the narrative flow? Just curious.

I'm making my boyfriend watch the Buffy series and he came home one day and said we'll have to watch Angel too. Since I've never seen Angel all the way through, I happily agreed and found this list. Great job!

Hi all, the UPN switch isn't a problem. After "Fredless" you don't have to worry for a while. Again, the only reason we have them in 4-episode blocks is to make things easier in terms of disc switching. You can watch as many or as little of each show if you want, so long as when you get to "Lies My Parents Told Me" you have watched Angel up to "Release" and then get back to the list again.

So I watched the next episode and Doyle makes a comment how as long as Cordelia's alive angel has to be invited in so that makes sense cause vampires aren't alive only in season 3 of Buffy spike returns and he can't go into angles mansion? So what because angel has a soul vampires can't come in?

HI Laura,

To answer your first question: In "City Of" Angel can go to the mansion where Cordy is being held because it's owned by a vamp, so yes the owner needs to be alive.

But regarding Spike not being able to go in Angel's mansion...in what episode? Lover's Walk? I don't think he ever tries to get in...he just looks through the window.

Thank you so much for this list. Have always liked Buffy and Angel however I had never watched Buffy all the way through as I was more of an Angel fan and have seen the series several times.

Been meaning to watch all of Buffy, so started earlier this year then when I got to the end of season 3 I found this list! It is amazing. Now watching both shows together. I've realised that some of the things in Angel make so much more sense now and have a much better appreciation of it. Thanks again really loving my (re)watch!

Also the way it's put Buffy 7/Angel 4 follows Angel's story after Storyteller from 4x07-4x14 The Beast's & Angelus's arcs and finally Jasmine's arc from 4x16-4x22 as Angel couldn't visit Buffy in Sunnydale until he averted the apocalypse in LA.

I love how those arcs have been done without any switching to Buffy or vice versa.

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