Chris Wheal quoted in Press Gazette I see

[Ryanscribe]

All,

I just noted 'our' very own Chris Wheal quoted in a story about council-run papers:

http://www.pressgazette.co.uk/nuj-accused-defending-‘pravdas’-against-journalism

I have just witnessed a *wildly* inaccurate story about a project on which I worked (for central govt) being condemned under this sort of attack (accused of being an expensive "glossy", when in fact it's a very low-cost, highly serious policy recommending/academic research PDF title), so I reserve judgement before leaping in.

Nick

[Martin Cloake]

It's a complicated debate, and unfortunately the NUJ seems utterly unable to do complicated these days. I think the observation in the comments from Bob Hitch hits the nail on the head: "Currently the NUJ is obsessed with attacking "the owners" to the point where it no longer stands up for things in the best interest of journalism. Any excuse to slag off JP and the like (who, admittedly deserve a shedload of criticism) is taken, regardless of whether the point would hurt journalism as a whole." 

It's perfectly possible to defend members' jobs and expose the hypocrisy of regional newspaper group owners who point to council-run papers rather than their own lack of investment and poor wages as the reason for decline without turning that into a defence of the principle of local authority-funded newspapers. For the NUJ's GS to argue that council-funded newspapers aren't political platforms and therefore imply that they are somehow as independent as a local newspaper can be is either astonishingly naive or an example of how stupid the current NUJ leadership machine thinks its members are. 

Arguments such as "if Eric Pickles is for it we must be against it" are akin to arguing that driving on a motorway makes you a Nazi because the Nazis invented motorways. Although I have to say, using this case as evidence of the NUJ's domination by some mysterious bunch of 'radical unionists' is wide of the mark too - plenty of people on the left are palming our foreheads at the current leadership's sheer dunderheadedness and inability to actually communicate properly with its own membership. Out of touch bureaucrats are the bane of modern life.

I admire Chris for being one of the few to keep speaking up and for pursuing the difficult job of chairing the training ctte in a union that no longer provides training, but the more I see of the NUJ these days, the less I regret my decision to resign after 24 years of membership.

Martin Cloake
Blog: www.blog.martincloake.com
Web: www.martincloake.com
www.amazon.com/author/martincloake

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[Simone Castello]

Apols in advance for below rant, but I have to vent!

Not surprised, never liked the union and never been a member because I believe they do zilch for freelancers. They help staffers in some ways but not in the salary department, as salaries have always been dire. 

Take subediting. The fact that a title previously paying £150 a day is now getting away with paying £130 says it all. When I started subbing in 1997, the average rate was £100-110. When I left in 2006, the average rate was £130 (counting the holiday pay). It's a massive joke. I mean average rates went up by £20-30 in 9 years? 

Salaries didn't go up by much if not at all. And the digital revolution plus graduate unemployment are allowing rate reduction, a rate that was just about OK in 2006 for a trade title.

You can't compare journalists with underground drivers but boy, do they have fab unions! I recently read a story of a designer becoming a driver, I don't blame her!

Simone Castello

http://www.simonecastello.co.uk/

My Slideshare Presentations

http://www.slideshare.net/SimoneCastello

---

To: fleet...@googlegroups.com
From: martin...@mac.com
Subject: Re: [FleetStreet] Chris Wheal quoted in Press Gazette I see
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2013 10:32:06 +0000

[Manek Dubash]

Hard to argue with that. Like Martin, I strongly believe in unions in principle and have been an activist, but I left the NUJ years ago when it became clear they could do zilch for me as a freelance.

Manek
--

Site: www.manekdubash.com Blog: Big Tin

[Ryanscribe]

So which unions, organisations (or none) do fellow freelancers belong to? If one shifts sideways into doing PR, should one join those CIPR etc professional assocs or stay in a journalist union (or both)?

---

Nick Ryan

Communications Advisor | International Journalist
+44 (0) 7866 470060 | www.nickryan.net

@ryanscribe | uk.linkedin.com/in/ryanscribe

[Louise Bolotin]

On 19 July 2013 12:05, Ryanscribe <ryans...@gmail.com> wrote:

So which unions, organisations (or none) do fellow freelancers belong to? If one shifts sideways into doing PR, should one join those CIPR etc professional assocs or stay in a journalist union (or both)?

I'm in the NUJ, which has bailed me out a few times as a freelance when I've had problems with things like late/non-payers and struggling to get access to election counts and council meetings. I'm also a member of the Society for Editors and Proofreaders and have been for 8 years. It's a professional association, though, rather than a union. Some member benefits do overlap with those offered by the NUJ - discounts on equipment, insurance deals etc.

Louise

 

[PJ White]

On 19/07/2013 11:53, Simone Castello wrote:

Apols in advance for below rant, but I have to vent!

Not surprised, never liked the union and never been a member because I believe they do zilch for freelancers. They help staffers in some ways but not in the salary department, as salaries have always been dire.�

Take subediting. The fact that a title previously paying �150 a day is now getting away with paying �130 says it all. When I started subbing in 1997, the average rate was �100-110. When I left in 2006, the average rate was �130 (counting the holiday pay). It's a massive joke. I mean average rates went up by �20-30 in 9 years?�

Salaries didn't go up by much if not at all. And the digital revolution plus graduate unemployment are allowing rate reduction, a rate that was just about OK in 2006 for a trade title.

You can't compare journalists with underground drivers but boy, do they have fab unions! I recently read a story of a designer becoming a driver, I don't blame her!

Disagree entirely. Not just with the content but with the attitude. The union isn't an external thing - a corporate "them" for you to critique and measure value for money of like some consumer good. It is what it says it is - a union, a coming together of people who want change and will fight, compromise and stand together to achieve it. You identify yourself as an enemy of working journalists and collective action. Fair enough. You can be as selfishly Tory as you want. But your rant is a waste of space. Work together with others to achieve change and you might get some credibility. You also might learn something.

PJ

[heather]

>So which unions, organisations (or none) do fellow freelancers
>belong to? If one shifts sideways into doing PR, should one join
>those CIPR etc professional assocs or stay in a journalist union (or
>both)?
>
>---
>
>Nick Ryan

I'm in the Society of Authors.

They absolutely know about freelancers (all authors are freelancers,
and many are journalists or 'do' journalism, and indeed, PR), and I
have found them very good over about 30 years. Most recently, I had a
complex rights issue to negotiate and they recommended an excellent
solicitor. Fiona Campbell, if anyone needs her.

Their journal ('The Author') is quite interesting, too, written by
its members often with wit and flair, though it could do with
zhoozhing (sp?) up a bit.....

Heather Welford
--

[PJ White]

On 19/07/2013 12:01, Manek Dubash wrote:

Hard to argue with that. Like Martin, I strongly believe in unions in principle and have been an activist, but I left the NUJ years ago when it became clear they could do zilch for me as a freelance.

What principle would that be, exactly? How can I personally benefit is not a union principle. It's a tory principle.

This isn't difficult, people.

PJ

[Martin Cloake]

Have to say I disagree the NUJ did nothing for freelancers. The freelance section is actually one of the most active, and gives a lot of practical assistance. This is largely in spite of the main heft of the union machine, it has to be said. But it works and it is valuable. 

There is an issue with how the NUJ and its freelance sector defines and organises freelancers. It consistently failed to make the important distinction between casual staff and freelance experts, something which led to some poor industrial decisions and that also fuelled the tensions between the individualist and collectivist strands that were always going to exist. 

I'm now a member of the Writers Guild, which covers a part of what I do, but not most. It's important to me that I am a member of a TUC-affiliated union, so really that's the main reason I joined - not a particularly good reason I grant you, but it was my only option.

If ever a union to represent journalists that engages with the business of actually carrying out the trade rather than posturing with nonsensical positions and weasel words and insisting that anything said by its so-called leadership is necessarily correct because the leadership said it, I'd be happy to join. 

Martin Cloake
Blog: www.blog.martincloake.com
Web: www.martincloake.com
www.amazon.com/author/martincloake

[Marc Beishon]

On Friday, July 19, 2013 11:32:06 AM UTC+1, martin wrote:

For the NUJ's GS to argue that council-funded newspapers aren't political platforms and therefore imply that they are somehow as independent as a local newspaper can be is either astonishingly naive or an example of how stupid the current NUJ leadership machine thinks its members are. 

There are plenty of publications we work on that are not independent such as contract titles and trade journals that charge for printing press releases. Some would argue that the BBC is hardly independent. The issue with council papers is not the propaganda but the use of public money - the case is then whether the information they cover outweighs the propaganda and I must say our one in Hackney is pretty useful for events and services. 

M. 

[Louise Bolotin]

On 19 July 2013 12:22, Martin Cloake <martin...@mac.com> wrote:

Have to say I disagree the NUJ did nothing for freelancers. The freelance section is actually one of the most active, and gives a lot of practical assistance. This is largely in spite of the main heft of the union machine, it has to be said. But it works and it is valuable. 

There is an issue with how the NUJ and its freelance sector defines and organises freelancers. It consistently failed to make the important distinction between casual staff and freelance experts, something which led to some poor industrial decisions and that also fuelled the tensions between the individualist and collectivist strands that were always going to exist. 

I'm now a member of the Writers Guild, which covers a part of what I do, but not most. It's important to me that I am a member of a TUC-affiliated union, so really that's the main reason I joined - not a particularly good reason I grant you, but it was my only option.

As a freelance, I see my NUJ

 

dues, at least partly, as an insurance premium. Like an insurance company, the NUJ has paid out when I've needed help - like the examples I mentioned in my previous post. Most freelances I know who are also in the NUJ see it the same way. Freelances who are not members find out the hard way when they have a problem such as a non-payer and phone up to get assistance only to be told they can't be helped as they're not a member - this is absolutely right. Why should the NUJ help non-members? The more freelance members there are, the more their issues will be taken up within the union. I sit on the Freelance Industrial Council and we are doing vital work on international IP agreements right now, for example. Sure, non-members will benefit from such efforts but there wouldn't be such efforts without a union to fight for them...

Louise

[Marc Beishon]

Well yes. The problem is that there are a lot of journalists who are Tories.

There are some though whom I feel have not really considered what a union actually is - and why the NUJ is affiliated to the TUC. That's rather in line with the general decline in union membership and the ridiculous events such as the latest anti-union bashing by Labour. If Miliband thinks he's going to win Surrey and Buckinghamshire with this then he's quite mad. 

M. 

[Manek Dubash]

PH, I hear you - and I agree. I expressed myself badly.

My experience of the NUJ was that it was too focused on internal disputes but did also do good things for salaried folk - I was involved in the VNU dispute of the late 1980s where the NUJ provided unparalleled support.

However, when going through a financially fallow patch, I left the union because it was money going out the door with no visible return. It was not an easy decision but all sorts of outgoings got cut that year.

I've also had little time to get actively involved with the union and journalism forms a pretty small proportion of my income now (for reasons well-expressed and aired here previously - I find analyst work pays better) so re-joining seems a bit irrelevant, to be honest.

Manek
--

[Manek Dubash]

The call from Crow et al for a new political party of the left strikes a resonant chord...

Manek
--

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Editorial & Communication Services

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[PJ White]

On 19/07/2013 12:39, Manek Dubash wrote:

PH, I hear you - and I agree. I expressed myself badly.

My experience of the NUJ was that it was too focused on internal disputes but did also do good things for salaried folk - I was involved in the VNU dispute of the late 1980s where the NUJ provided unparalleled support.

However, when going through a financially fallow patch, I left the union because it was money going out the door with no visible return. It was not an easy decision but all sorts of outgoings got cut that year.

I've also had little time to get actively involved with the union and journalism forms a pretty small proportion of my income now (for reasons well-expressed and aired here previously - I find analyst work pays better) so re-joining seems a bit irrelevant, to be honest.

Well said. Your choices pretty much match mine. I was happy to be a freelance member for twenty years. Not expecting anything out of it (though I did get some benefits, useful info, advice etc), but to support others. That's when I could afford it & was doing a lot of journalism. When earnings dropped I reviewed it, as I did other optional spending. I'd join again if I had the money to spare and was getting a significant income from journalism.

(I might start calling myself PH. I like the acidity.)

PJ

[Louise Bolotin]

On 19 July 2013 12:39, Manek Dubash <ma...@manekdubash.com> wrote:

However, when going through a financially fallow patch, I left the union because it was money going out the door with no visible return. It was not an easy decision but all sorts of outgoings got cut that year.

You can pay reduced dues in fallow times. Around 4 years back when I worked very little because of illness, I applied for reduced dues and pay about £4 a month instead of £17 for 12 months.

Louise

[Martin Cloake]

That's a fair point Marc, you're right to pick up on my rushed exposition – I'll plead being at work and distracted by this discussion in my defence.

Agree on definitions of independence. I currently work for a contract publisher, for example, so I know about the limits to and stretching of the definition.

The problem with the NUJ position is that it comes across very much as an argument that council-funded publications can and do serve the same purpose as an - albeit nominally - independent local paper. Anyone with half a brain - which admittedly rules out most of the current NUJ leadership – knows council publications don't and can't. 

The NUJ's strength was that it was always a combination of trade union and professional association. Over the last few years it's - at best - neglected the professional side (and you can carry out a trade in a professional manner, before we get into that argument), and that's part of the reason it's taken a basic industrial position of 'defend all jobs' and segued that into a point of principle about how the trade is carried out.

It seems the NUJ is relying more and more on the 'you're misunderstanding us' response to criticism. Most, confronted with frequently being misunderstood, would conclude the problem might be with them. Unfortunately, too many currently running the NUJ prefer to hide behind the 'you're misunderstanding us because you're a reactionary right-wing stooge in the pockets of the evil capitalists' argument, topped off with a bit of character assassination and the odd smear for good measure. 

It's a great shame, for the many good people still in the NUJ, and for the trade. It was one of the hardest decisions i ever made when I left, but everyone has their line in the sand.

Martin Cloake
Blog: www.blog.martincloake.com
Web: www.martincloake.com
www.amazon.com/author/martincloake

[Marc Beishon]

On Friday, July 19, 2013 12:48:30 PM UTC+1, martin wrote:

It seems the NUJ is relying more and more on the 'you're misunderstanding us' response to criticism. Most, confronted with frequently being misunderstood, would conclude the problem might be with them. Unfortunately, too many currently running the NUJ prefer to hide behind the 'you're misunderstanding us because you're a reactionary right-wing stooge in the pockets of the evil capitalists' argument, topped off with a bit of character assassination and the odd smear for good measure. 

I don't see this - sure a few thinks have blown up such as the press regulation issue, which I think wasn't explained well, but most of the day to day work is about things like trying to get new-media workers into the fold. 

It's a great shame, for the many good people still in the NUJ, and for the trade. It was one of the hardest decisions i ever made when I left, but everyone has their line in the sand.

Well you have gone to a TUC-affiliated body. I come from a Labour party background where you joined your union no matter what. Those were the days when Labour had political education meetings and officers. Now I've long left Labour (that left me) but I'd never the leave the union.

M. 

[Simone Castello]

Well it looks like I'm Tory then, you learn something every day. Numbers speak louder than words though. If somebody can kindly provide staff salaries for the past 10 years or so, the picture will be complete.

I had never had a client defaulting me in 19 years, I even got money from a company on the verge of bankruptcy. Maybe I'm lucky or perhaps my presence in reception is enough to scare a non-payer to pay me. I used to collect money for my dad too - maybe I should be in the debt collecting biz. So sorry, I have no need for the NUJ for that and if somebody doesn't pay me and I can't schlep over there, there are debt collector agencies around. 

Last time I had any contact with the London freelance chapel they were more interested in stopping the war, which was noble, but didn't do anything for my freelance rate, so I bought the badge but didn't feel like joining the union. 

I heard that things have improved. I was monitoring subsuk for four years and I have still a hand in it, so I hear all sort of things but most are no good and worrying. But I'm not the only one who feels failed by NUJ, plenty of freelance subs were never members. I left journalism because there was no respect for experience and expertise. Once you are close to 40 you start to feel less enthusiastic about the treatment of experienced subs by multinational companies pleading poverty.

Just my 2p. I'm trying to fight for digital copywriting now, which has been badly affected by sites like peanutsperhour. 

Simone Castello

http://www.simonecastello.co.uk/

My Slideshare Presentations

http://www.slideshare.net/SimoneCastello

---

Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2013 12:41:35 +0100
From: ma...@manekdubash.com
To: fleet...@googlegroups.com

Subject: Re: [FleetStreet] Chris Wheal quoted in Press Gazette I see

[Martin Cloake]

You can't deny that the NUJ seems to be very misunderstood by very many people these days. I expect we should agree to differ on the general conduct of the NUJ. I don't want to turn into the cliche of an embittered ex-member always bashing the union - stuck my 2p worth in here as it's a group capable of proper discussion, and because i still cling to some vague hope that things might change.

Still active, still engaged, but I'm afraid that I think the NUJ, like the Labour Party, is a shadow of what it should be. Too many people concerned mainly with their own careers and situations posing as champions of the people while actually contributing to the divide between rulers and ruled. 

Not worth falling out over.

And now I really must do some work.

Martin Cloake
Blog: www.blog.martincloake.com
Web: www.martincloake.com
www.amazon.com/author/martincloake

[Marc Beishon]

On Friday, July 19, 2013 1:10:57 PM UTC+1, martin wrote:

Still active, still engaged, but I'm afraid that I think the NUJ, like the Labour Party, is a shadow of what it should be. Too many people concerned mainly with their own careers and situations posing as champions of the people while actually contributing to the divide between rulers and ruled. 

Well I think your expectations are too high - it's a small union with a target of a wide mix of often very difficult people and one of the most rapidly changing agendas with digitisation. And the officers and activists come and go. 

M. 

[Pete Jenkins]

To say that council newspapers don't carry political messages. Is that a
serious comment?

Pete J

-----Original Message-----
From: fleet...@googlegroups.com [mailto:fleet...@googlegroups.com] On
Behalf Of Ryanscribe
Sent: 19 July 2013 10:31
To: fleet...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [FleetStreet] Chris Wheal quoted in Press Gazette I see

All,

I just noted 'our' very own Chris Wheal quoted in a story about council-run
papers:

http://www.pressgazette.co.uk/nuj-accused-defending-'pravdas'-against-journa

[Pete Jenkins]

I read the NUJ statement as one put out to defend the position of their PR members, many of whom will be working for these very council papers.

 

They forget of course that these very same council papers are putting others of their membership out of work by undermining the local press that the councils are constructively undermining.

 

What fun…

 

Pete J

[PJ White]

On 19/07/2013 13:00, Simone Castello wrote:

...So sorry, I have no need for the NUJ for that and if somebody doesn't pay me and I can't schlep over there, there are debt collector agencies around. 

Last time I had any contact with the London freelance chapel they were more interested in stopping the war, which was noble, but didn't do anything for my freelance rate, so I bought the badge but didn't feel like joining the union. 

I heard that things have improved. I was monitoring subsuk for four years and I have still a hand in it, so I hear all sort of things but most are no good and worrying. But I'm not the only one who feels failed by NUJ, plenty of freelance subs were never members.

Simone, you still don't get it. The union doesn't exist to chase your debtors or improve your freelance rate. How could it? Complaining that it doesn't is like ranting to a forum that your dishwasher doesn't keep food cool or your fridge can't clean plates properly. That's not what they do.

On the numbers, you need to compare what staff salaries would be like if it hadn't been for the union. And not just the NUJ, but the whole labour movement working together for generations to establish all kinds of standards, basic salaries, health and safety, holiday pay, etc etc. You may decide you are not a beneficiary of that. Everything you've done you achieved yourself. As I said, fair enough. Lots of people think like that. George W Bush thinks he is a self-made man. But forgive me if I chuckle a bit.

PJ

[Simone Castello]

I am not talking about unions, I'm talking about a union that hasn't done much for its freelance members. It's not very well known but as it happens I have a degree in political sciences, so I can talk at length about unions, if I have to, at international level.

I praise all other unions for their efforts at improving their members' workplaces and work life. I was just using other people's perception of the NUJ, which so far have been:

they are good to freelancers (not)

they recover money from freelancers (hardly a bonus).

If somebody presents some other benefit, I will consider it. How have they benefited the journalist, aside staffers who are fighting redundancies? Why are they always involved in political stuff like the war and now local politics... Methinks somebody is trying to get a political career out of it rather than listen to disgruntled journalists. I'm not the only one, you know.... Anyway, why I bother? I have other fish to fry.

Simone Castello

http://www.simonecastello.co.uk/

My Slideshare Presentations

http://www.slideshare.net/SimoneCastello

---

Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2013 13:56:06 +0100
From: pjwhi...@gmail.com

To: fleet...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [FleetStreet] Chris Wheal quoted in Press Gazette I see

[Simone Castello]

"they recover money from freelancers (hardly a bonus)" oops, freudian slip, I wasn't talking about subs but non payers so it should be for

Simone Castello

http://www.simonecastello.co.uk/

My Slideshare Presentations

http://www.slideshare.net/SimoneCastello

---

From: simonec...@hotmail.com
To: fleet...@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [FleetStreet] Chris Wheal quoted in Press Gazette I see
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2013 13:19:45 +0000

[Marc Beishon]

On Friday, July 19, 2013 2:19:45 PM UTC+1, simonesub wrote:

Why are they always involved in political stuff

They/we aren't 'always involved'  in what I think you're getting at (e.g. Israel) - but as you're in the media you'll know that controversial stuff always makes the news.

As for politics in the general sense I'm afraid that's what unions are for. 

M.  

[Martin Cloake]

For 24 years I was there, I contributed and I recognised that - like everything - it was far from perfect. I left because the current leadership wilfully exploit the detachment of the people they represent, and resort to any method to retain their position. Just as Labour was formed when the Liberals ceased being a viable option, so something needs to replace a union that is a union in name only.

Martin Cloake
Blog: www.blog.martincloake.com
Web: www.martincloake.com
www.amazon.com/author/martincloake

[PJ White]

On 19/07/2013 14:19, Simone Castello wrote:

.. It's not very well known but as it happens I have a degree in political sciences, so I can talk at length about unions, if I have to, at international level.

Ha! You thought that was an argument-winner. Wrong. I can counter. I used to have an LP of the Dubliners singing Joe Hill.

PJ

[Simone Castello]

I was talking about the Iraq war. Here is the scenario, circa 2003 at a consumer magazine publisher in London : Hello, I'm from the London freelance chapel of the NUJ, would you like to buy this badge? It's 50p. Badge says stop the war. I buy the badge. Then I'm told about local meetings of freelance chapel. Chap goes away to sell more badges and I ask other freelancers if they go there. Other freelancers say something like: "they have this new freelance chapel now so they are trying to listen to freelancers but it's rubbish." End of story. 

Prior to this episode lots of discussions on NUJ of the sort "is it worth joining" on subsuk? Answer of majority: No, waste of money. 

More discussions after this episode, same conclusion, moans about the union not listening to freelancers, the lot. Maybe we are all a bunch of tories, they turned me on the sly because last time I looked I was a Guardian reader. Let's not be naive, people expect benefits with any professional membership.

Let's say I wasn't engaged to subscribe before and after the badge episode by the overwhelming negative feedback from other subs. Subsuk has grown from 200 to over 800 members, mostly in London. Still, not many thumbs up for NUJ, aside that it's good if you can't get paid or you are in a fix and need a lawyer. Or if you need a press card to get in free into a club. Yep, that was said at some point.

Simone Castello

http://www.simonecastello.co.uk/

My Slideshare Presentations

http://www.slideshare.net/SimoneCastello

---

To: fleet...@googlegroups.com
From: martin...@mac.com

Subject: Re: [FleetStreet] Chris Wheal quoted in Press Gazette I see

Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2013 13:41:11 +0000

[Martin Cloake]

"Ha! You thought that was an argument-winner. Wrong. I can counter. I used to have an LP of the Dubliners singing Joe Hill."

Quote of the thread.

Martin Cloake
Blog: www.blog.martincloake.com
Web: www.martincloake.com
www.amazon.com/author/martincloake

[Simone Castello]

I'm not trying to win an argument, just stating my experience and what I have heard from others. I'm not going to win any argument if you are around PJ, I have given up fighting after a scrap some years ago.

Simone Castello

http://www.simonecastello.co.uk/

My Slideshare Presentations

http://www.slideshare.net/SimoneCastello

---

To: fleet...@googlegroups.com
From: martin...@mac.com
Subject: Re: [FleetStreet] Chris Wheal quoted in Press Gazette I see

Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2013 14:06:49 +0000

[PJ White]

On 19/07/2013 15:21, Simone Castello wrote:

I'm not trying to win an argument, just stating my experience and what I have heard from others. I'm not going to win any argument if you are around PJ, I have given up fighting after a scrap some years ago.

Good thinking. It's too hot to argue.

PJ

[Marc Beishon]

On Friday, July 19, 2013 2:41:11 PM UTC+1, martin wrote:

I left because the current leadership wilfully exploit the detachment of the people they represent, and resort to any method to retain their position. 

This sounds not far short of corruption to me -  you obviously have inside knowledge? Or is it just normal organisational behaviour. 

I've not been active in the NUJ for many years but people have always complained about the full timers and elected officials. The current activity from where I'm sitting looks good in terms of visibility for the NUJ in industrial matters, at the BBC for example, and in fact better than for some time.  

M. 

[Martin Cloake]

As far as your opening observation goes, I couldn't possibly comment.

I'm very aware of the complaints and problems over the years. And there are some very good people still active in and working for the NUJ. But it's a broken organisation. It's always been strong at places such as the BBC and some of the national newspapers. And at those places it pretty much exists and functions in spite of the central machine - although there are and have been for a long time issues about the influence of and focus on those chapels in comparison to the rest of the trade and potential members. That is a big debate in itself.

But in terms of visibility and industrial matters.

Wrong on Leveson; wrong on regulation; unable to get to grips with digital and the changing nature of the trade; wrong on council papers; wrong on training. And that's just the selected highlights. The enormous gap between the leaders and the led is also an issue. 

Sorry, but if the NUJ in its present form is the answer, the wrong question is being asked.

Martin Cloake
Blog: www.blog.martincloake.com
Web: www.martincloake.com
www.amazon.com/author/martincloake

[Malcolm_W]

I remember having a pretty similar argument with PJ back in 1999 or 2000.  I wasn't a member then; I'm not now.  And, unlike PJ, journalism is still pretty much 100% of my billable activity, as it was back then.  (PJ, I'm not starting a war, just stating facts.)  Freelances have a very different agenda from employed journalists, and the NUJ never convinced me that they even knew what it was, far less were able to address it.  Meanwhile, skewering various tosspot theives and rogues (on the rare occasions necesary) has been fun.

One exception, in the last two years, has been an organisation that looked like being my only bad debt in 22 years.  The NUJ had a go (all credit to them), but it was another TLA that did the trick -- yep, CCJ.

Love & kisses,

Malcolm 

[Patrick Neylan]

Sensible comments from Whealie in Press Gazette, as ever.

I left the NUJ years ago - the final straw was so trivial that I'm embarrassed to mention it - but it struck me as a union that was mired in the 70s, where political stances took priority over the union's main job of defending its members. It struck me as a training camp for political aspirants Also, my then-wife was a teacher and the NUT's magazine put The Journalist to shame.

It's tragic that proper subs don't get a decent rate. Nowadays I hire subs, and the ones I deal with are refreshingly trenchant about rates. I don't blame them, given how crashingly dull the work I offer is. Two years ago I offered one new sub (now a good friend) what I thought was the standard rate of £140, and she said, "One normally doesn't get out of bed for less than £160." The chap who worked for me this week did such a good job that I ordered him to add £20 to his daily rate.

It's a serious point. I'm not just saying what a fine fellow I am, though there's possibly a bit of that vanity going on even if £20 on a day rate isn't enough to confer sainthood, because good people who do a good job are worth treating well. Quality is worth paying for, and grinding out the cheapest rate isn't the best way to do that. If my report gets out two days earlier and reads well (and we're charging over £1,000 a pop), then I'm getting a bloody good deal. In fact, I've almost persuaded myself to add £40 to his day rate instead of £20.

On Friday, 19 July 2013 10:30:36 UTC+1, Nick Ryan wrote:

All,

I just noted 'our' very own Chris Wheal quoted in a story about council-run papers:

http://www.pressgazette.co.uk/nuj-accused-defending-‘pravdas’-against-journalism